Elecraft

Re: Elecraft IC-7610,

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Charlie T, K3ICH

Re: Elecraft IC-7610,

OK, So why should I dump my IC-7610 for a K4?

The Icom comes standard with dual Rx diversity, and is between 2/3 to 1/2 the (proposed) price of the K4.

Hmmmmm, Charlie k3ICH

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David Bunte

Re: Elecraft IC-7610,

Charlie -

I have not read EVERYTHING in this thread... but I sure don’t recall anyone
saying you should get rid of your IC-7610.

Maybe I missed something.

Dave - K9FN

On Mon, May 20, 2019 at 12:21 PM <[hidden email]> wrote:

> OK, So why should I dump my IC-7610 for a K4?
>
> The Icom comes standard with dual Rx diversity, and is between 2/3 to 1/2
> the (proposed) price of the K4.
>
> Hmmmmm, Charlie k3ICH
>
>
>
>
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Grant Youngman-2

Re: Elecraft IC-7610,

Weil .. with an Icom you’ll have the privilege and the ultimate enjoyment of eventually being sucked in by the next shiny object, and purchasing a 7610XL, and 7615, and 1715XL and … and …

With the E’craft, (if history is any indication), you will be able to purchase a few boards over time. Sure, they’re not free .. but it’s just boards. And you may actually get software updates and new features in the “old” radio.

But I don’t know if that means you should part with your 7610, You can always ask the 756Pro guys what they think (?). :-)

Clearly I’m biased …

Grant NQ5T
K3 #2091 KX3 #8342

> On May 20, 2019, at 2:37 PM, David Bunte <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Charlie -
>
> I have not read EVERYTHING in this thread... but I sure don’t recall anyone
> saying you should get rid of your IC-7610.
>
> Maybe I missed something.
>
> Dave - K9FN
>
> On Mon, May 20, 2019 at 12:21 PM <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> OK, So why should I dump my IC-7610 for a K4?
>>
>> The Icom comes standard with dual Rx diversity, and is between 2/3 to 1/2
>> the (proposed) price of the K4.
>>
>> Hmmmmm, Charlie k3ICH
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
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Charlie T, K3ICH

Re: Elecraft IC-7610,

In reply to this post by David Bunte

No, you didn’t miss anything.

No one “said” I should do anything.

However, it’s obvious to me that the K4 is basically an IC7610 on muscle building steroids and probably has an infusion of alien technology (new stuff, not the old 1947 Roswell cache).

There are features and performance that far exceed the Icom’s capabilities.

Even though, on the surface, they “look” somewhat alike.

My question (only to myself, but rhetorically stated) is should I make the switch?

73, Charlie k3ICH

From: David Bunte <[hidden email]>
Sent: Monday, May 20, 2019 2:38 PM
To: [hidden email]
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft IC-7610,

Charlie -

I have not read EVERYTHING in this thread... but I sure don’t recall anyone saying you should get rid of your IC-7610.

Maybe I missed something.

Dave - K9FN

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wayne burdick

Re: Elecraft / IC-7610 comparison

Administrator

In reply to this post by Charlie T, K3ICH

> Charlie, K3ICH, wrote:
>
> OK, So why should I [pejorative deleted] my IC-7610 for a K4?

Hi Charlie,

The '7610 is an impressive and capable radio. We have one in our shop and have put it on the air.

It's a bit of apples/oranges comparison to the K4, though. Since you asked ... here are some K4 characteristics to consider:

* Controls -- The K4's UI is quite different, borrowing heavily from the K3, but with an infusion of versatility due to the 7" display. It has the widest available viewing angle and is very bright. (K4 tire-kickers at Dayton were extremely complimentary about the display, which was gratifying after 200 or so iterations on the concept drawing by yours truly.) There are three multifunction knobs (not just one), each mapped to a semantic group, e.g. "XMIT". Their functions adapt to the current operating mode, etc. On the right side of the radio there are three 400-count, ball-bearing drive optical shaft encoders, for VFO A, VFO B, and RIT/XIT offset. No need to multi-task one or two controls. Bottom line: ease of use. If you do get stuck, there's a built-in help system.

* Dynamic range -- The K4 is a direct-sampling, dual-receiver radio in its base configuration. But those in high-signal environments can add the dual superhet module to realize a 20 to 25 dB improvement in headroom (blocking dynamic range) over any radio that is direct-sampling only. This is the same delta as, for example, a K3S vs. any other non-superhet on Sherwood's list.

* Portability -- The K4 weighs only about 10 pounds, draws only about 2 amps on RX, and can run down to 11 volts. It will try to drag you off to a Field Day site or remote island if not bolted to your desk.

• Remote control -- The K4 comes with remote-control via Ethernet built in. One K4 can controlled by another, or by a tablet or PC. Eric must have demonstrated this 500 times at Dayton and I daresay he's getting good at it.

* Modularity -- We segregated the K4's modules in such a way as to facilitate easy update to units in the field if/when new tech becomes available. For example, we could quickly and cost-effectively incorporate a new ADC or DAC. Call it planned non-obsolescence. This the 20th anniversary of the K2, and the 10th anniversary of the K3. Both are still shipping.

* Extensibility -- In addition to the HDR module, the user will be able to add a VHF/UHF module, which in turn could morph in the future. This philosophy extends to software as well, given the K4's general-purpose computing module [not Windows]. I like to think of it as our "app engine," limited only by the imagination of our software team and other talented contributors.

* External monitor output -- HDMI, not DVI. (To each his own?)

* Tuning aid -- The "mini-pan" is one of our favorite features of the K4. When you tap on a signal you don't just get a geometric magnification of the main panadapter's pixels; you get a re-sampled, high-resolution spectral display of as narrow as +/- 1 kHz (varying per mode). This is great for signal auto-spotting and left/right peak search. The mini-pan is per-receiver and can either be turned on automatically or by tapping either S-meter.

• IO -- The K4's IO is a superset of the K3's, meaning it comes with all of the analog and control I/O you might need as well as 4 USB ports, Ethernet, etc.

* Antenna sources -- There are up to 3 ATU antenna jacks and up to 5 receive antenna inputs.

73,
Wayne
N6KR

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bdenley

Re: Elecraft / IC-7610 comparison

Wayne:
When you mention that the K4 has Ethernet (which means cables to me), it must also have WiFi if you can control with tablets, no?

Brian
KB1VBF
Sent from my iPad

On May 20, 2019, at 8:39 PM, Wayne Burdick <[hidden email]> wrote:

>> Charlie, K3ICH, wrote:
>>
>> OK, So why should I [pejorative deleted] my IC-7610 for a K4?
>
>
> Hi Charlie,
>
> The '7610 is an impressive and capable radio. We have one in our shop and have put it on the air.
>
> It's a bit of apples/oranges comparison to the K4, though. Since you asked ... here are some K4 characteristics to consider:
>
> * Controls -- The K4's UI is quite different, borrowing heavily from the K3, but with an infusion of versatility due to the 7" display. It has the widest available viewing angle and is very bright. (K4 tire-kickers at Dayton were extremely complimentary about the display, which was gratifying after 200 or so iterations on the concept drawing by yours truly.) There are three multifunction knobs (not just one), each mapped to a semantic group, e.g. "XMIT". Their functions adapt to the current operating mode, etc. On the right side of the radio there are three 400-count, ball-bearing drive optical shaft encoders, for VFO A, VFO B, and RIT/XIT offset. No need to multi-task one or two controls. Bottom line: ease of use. If you do get stuck, there's a built-in help system.
>
> * Dynamic range -- The K4 is a direct-sampling, dual-receiver radio in its base configuration. But those in high-signal environments can add the dual superhet module to realize a 20 to 25 dB improvement in headroom (blocking dynamic range) over any radio that is direct-sampling only. This is the same delta as, for example, a K3S vs. any other non-superhet on Sherwood's list.
>
> * Portability -- The K4 weighs only about 10 pounds, draws only about 2 amps on RX, and can run down to 11 volts. It will try to drag you off to a Field Day site or remote island if not bolted to your desk.
>
> • Remote control -- The K4 comes with remote-control via Ethernet built in. One K4 can controlled by another, or by a tablet or PC. Eric must have demonstrated this 500 times at Dayton and I daresay he's getting good at it.
>
> * Modularity -- We segregated the K4's modules in such a way as to facilitate easy update to units in the field if/when new tech becomes available. For example, we could quickly and cost-effectively incorporate a new ADC or DAC. Call it planned non-obsolescence. This the 20th anniversary of the K2, and the 10th anniversary of the K3. Both are still shipping.
>
> * Extensibility -- In addition to the HDR module, the user will be able to add a VHF/UHF module, which in turn could morph in the future. This philosophy extends to software as well, given the K4's general-purpose computing module [not Windows]. I like to think of it as our "app engine," limited only by the imagination of our software team and other talented contributors.
>
> * External monitor output -- HDMI, not DVI. (To each his own?)
>
> * Tuning aid -- The "mini-pan" is one of our favorite features of the K4. When you tap on a signal you don't just get a geometric magnification of the main panadapter's pixels; you get a re-sampled, high-resolution spectral display of as narrow as +/- 1 kHz (varying per mode). This is great for signal auto-spotting and left/right peak search. The mini-pan is per-receiver and can either be turned on automatically or by tapping either S-meter.
>
> • IO -- The K4's IO is a superset of the K3's, meaning it comes with all of the analog and control I/O you might need as well as 4 USB ports, Ethernet, etc.
>
> * Antenna sources -- There are up to 3 ATU antenna jacks and up to 5 receive antenna inputs.
>
> 73,
> Wayne
> N6KR
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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bdenley

Re: Elecraft / IC-7610 comparison

Or are you saying that you connect the K4 to your in house router through Ethernet and then access it through WiFi? (It’s making sense to me now! Hehe).

Thanks
Brian
KB1VBF
Sent from my iPad

> On May 20, 2019, at 11:24 PM, Brian Denley <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Wayne:
> When you mention that the K4 has Ethernet (which means cables to me), it must also have WiFi if you can control with tablets, no?
>
> Brian
> KB1VBF
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On May 20, 2019, at 8:39 PM, Wayne Burdick <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>>> Charlie, K3ICH, wrote:
>>>
>>> OK, So why should I [pejorative deleted] my IC-7610 for a K4?
>>
>>
>> Hi Charlie,
>>
>> The '7610 is an impressive and capable radio. We have one in our shop and have put it on the air.
>>
>> It's a bit of apples/oranges comparison to the K4, though. Since you asked ... here are some K4 characteristics to consider:
>>
>> * Controls -- The K4's UI is quite different, borrowing heavily from the K3, but with an infusion of versatility due to the 7" display. It has the widest available viewing angle and is very bright. (K4 tire-kickers at Dayton were extremely complimentary about the display, which was gratifying after 200 or so iterations on the concept drawing by yours truly.) There are three multifunction knobs (not just one), each mapped to a semantic group, e.g. "XMIT". Their functions adapt to the current operating mode, etc. On the right side of the radio there are three 400-count, ball-bearing drive optical shaft encoders, for VFO A, VFO B, and RIT/XIT offset. No need to multi-task one or two controls. Bottom line: ease of use. If you do get stuck, there's a built-in help system.
>>
>> * Dynamic range -- The K4 is a direct-sampling, dual-receiver radio in its base configuration. But those in high-signal environments can add the dual superhet module to realize a 20 to 25 dB improvement in headroom (blocking dynamic range) over any radio that is direct-sampling only. This is the same delta as, for example, a K3S vs. any other non-superhet on Sherwood's list.
>>
>> * Portability -- The K4 weighs only about 10 pounds, draws only about 2 amps on RX, and can run down to 11 volts. It will try to drag you off to a Field Day site or remote island if not bolted to your desk.
>>
>> • Remote control -- The K4 comes with remote-control via Ethernet built in. One K4 can controlled by another, or by a tablet or PC. Eric must have demonstrated this 500 times at Dayton and I daresay he's getting good at it.
>>
>> * Modularity -- We segregated the K4's modules in such a way as to facilitate easy update to units in the field if/when new tech becomes available. For example, we could quickly and cost-effectively incorporate a new ADC or DAC. Call it planned non-obsolescence. This the 20th anniversary of the K2, and the 10th anniversary of the K3. Both are still shipping.
>>
>> * Extensibility -- In addition to the HDR module, the user will be able to add a VHF/UHF module, which in turn could morph in the future. This philosophy extends to software as well, given the K4's general-purpose computing module [not Windows]. I like to think of it as our "app engine," limited only by the imagination of our software team and other talented contributors.
>>
>> * External monitor output -- HDMI, not DVI. (To each his own?)
>>
>> * Tuning aid -- The "mini-pan" is one of our favorite features of the K4. When you tap on a signal you don't just get a geometric magnification of the main panadapter's pixels; you get a re-sampled, high-resolution spectral display of as narrow as +/- 1 kHz (varying per mode). This is great for signal auto-spotting and left/right peak search. The mini-pan is per-receiver and can either be turned on automatically or by tapping either S-meter.
>>
>> • IO -- The K4's IO is a superset of the K3's, meaning it comes with all of the analog and control I/O you might need as well as 4 USB ports, Ethernet, etc.
>>
>> * Antenna sources -- There are up to 3 ATU antenna jacks and up to 5 receive antenna inputs.
>>
>> 73,
>> Wayne
>> N6KR
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
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>
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Alan Bloom

Re: Elecraft / IC-7610 comparison

In reply to this post by bdenley

For less than $10 you can buy a little WiFi adapter that plugs into a
USB port. For example:

https://www.amazon.com/TP-Link-TL-WN725N-wireless-network-Adapter/dp/B008IFXQFU/

Alan N1AL

On 5/20/19 8:24 PM, Brian Denley wrote:

> Wayne:
> When you mention that the K4 has Ethernet (which means cables to me), it must also have WiFi if you can control with tablets, no?
>
> Brian
> KB1VBF
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On May 20, 2019, at 8:39 PM, Wayne Burdick <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>>> Charlie, K3ICH, wrote:
>>>
>>> OK, So why should I [pejorative deleted] my IC-7610 for a K4?
>>
>> Hi Charlie,
>>
>> The '7610 is an impressive and capable radio. We have one in our shop and have put it on the air.
>>
>> It's a bit of apples/oranges comparison to the K4, though. Since you asked ... here are some K4 characteristics to consider:
>>
>> * Controls -- The K4's UI is quite different, borrowing heavily from the K3, but with an infusion of versatility due to the 7" display. It has the widest available viewing angle and is very bright. (K4 tire-kickers at Dayton were extremely complimentary about the display, which was gratifying after 200 or so iterations on the concept drawing by yours truly.) There are three multifunction knobs (not just one), each mapped to a semantic group, e.g. "XMIT". Their functions adapt to the current operating mode, etc. On the right side of the radio there are three 400-count, ball-bearing drive optical shaft encoders, for VFO A, VFO B, and RIT/XIT offset. No need to multi-task one or two controls. Bottom line: ease of use. If you do get stuck, there's a built-in help system.
>>
>> * Dynamic range -- The K4 is a direct-sampling, dual-receiver radio in its base configuration. But those in high-signal environments can add the dual superhet module to realize a 20 to 25 dB improvement in headroom (blocking dynamic range) over any radio that is direct-sampling only. This is the same delta as, for example, a K3S vs. any other non-superhet on Sherwood's list.
>>
>> * Portability -- The K4 weighs only about 10 pounds, draws only about 2 amps on RX, and can run down to 11 volts. It will try to drag you off to a Field Day site or remote island if not bolted to your desk.
>>
>> • Remote control -- The K4 comes with remote-control via Ethernet built in. One K4 can controlled by another, or by a tablet or PC. Eric must have demonstrated this 500 times at Dayton and I daresay he's getting good at it.
>>
>> * Modularity -- We segregated the K4's modules in such a way as to facilitate easy update to units in the field if/when new tech becomes available. For example, we could quickly and cost-effectively incorporate a new ADC or DAC. Call it planned non-obsolescence. This the 20th anniversary of the K2, and the 10th anniversary of the K3. Both are still shipping.
>>
>> * Extensibility -- In addition to the HDR module, the user will be able to add a VHF/UHF module, which in turn could morph in the future. This philosophy extends to software as well, given the K4's general-purpose computing module [not Windows]. I like to think of it as our "app engine," limited only by the imagination of our software team and other talented contributors.
>>
>> * External monitor output -- HDMI, not DVI. (To each his own?)
>>
>> * Tuning aid -- The "mini-pan" is one of our favorite features of the K4. When you tap on a signal you don't just get a geometric magnification of the main panadapter's pixels; you get a re-sampled, high-resolution spectral display of as narrow as +/- 1 kHz (varying per mode). This is great for signal auto-spotting and left/right peak search. The mini-pan is per-receiver and can either be turned on automatically or by tapping either S-meter.
>>
>> • IO -- The K4's IO is a superset of the K3's, meaning it comes with all of the analog and control I/O you might need as well as 4 USB ports, Ethernet, etc.
>>
>> * Antenna sources -- There are up to 3 ATU antenna jacks and up to 5 receive antenna inputs.
>>
>> 73,
>> Wayne
>> N6KR
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ

Re: Elecraft / IC-7610 comparison

Administrator

In reply to this post by bdenley

Hi Brian,

Its a regular RJ-45 Ethernet jack on the rear of the K4. (I believe it is gigabit ethernet..) Usually your network router provides the wifi to connect wirelessly in the house (also including a DCHP iP address server.)

Embedding wifi in the radio is problematic as it is a rapidly evolving technology with regular changes in security features, speed etc that are best handled by router sw and hw upgrades. Its unlikely wifi will stay constant over the radio's life.

73,
Eric
elecraft.com
_..._

> On May 20, 2019, at 8:24 PM, Brian Denley <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Wayne:
> When you mention that the K4 has Ethernet (which means cables to me), it must also have WiFi if you can control with tablets, no?
>
> Brian
> KB1VBF
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On May 20, 2019, at 8:39 PM, Wayne Burdick <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>>> Charlie, K3ICH, wrote:
>>>
>>> OK, So why should I [pejorative deleted] my IC-7610 for a K4?
>>
>>
>> Hi Charlie,
>>
>> The '7610 is an impressive and capable radio. We have one in our shop and have put it on the air.
>>
>> It's a bit of apples/oranges comparison to the K4, though. Since you asked ... here are some K4 characteristics to consider:
>>
>> * Controls -- The K4's UI is quite different, borrowing heavily from the K3, but with an infusion of versatility due to the 7" display. It has the widest available viewing angle and is very bright. (K4 tire-kickers at Dayton were extremely complimentary about the display, which was gratifying after 200 or so iterations on the concept drawing by yours truly.) There are three multifunction knobs (not just one), each mapped to a semantic group, e.g. "XMIT". Their functions adapt to the current operating mode, etc. On the right side of the radio there are three 400-count, ball-bearing drive optical shaft encoders, for VFO A, VFO B, and RIT/XIT offset. No need to multi-task one or two controls. Bottom line: ease of use. If you do get stuck, there's a built-in help system.
>>
>> * Dynamic range -- The K4 is a direct-sampling, dual-receiver radio in its base configuration. But those in high-signal environments can add the dual superhet module to realize a 20 to 25 dB improvement in headroom (blocking dynamic range) over any radio that is direct-sampling only. This is the same delta as, for example, a K3S vs. any other non-superhet on Sherwood's list.
>>
>> * Portability -- The K4 weighs only about 10 pounds, draws only about 2 amps on RX, and can run down to 11 volts. It will try to drag you off to a Field Day site or remote island if not bolted to your desk.
>>
>> • Remote control -- The K4 comes with remote-control via Ethernet built in. One K4 can controlled by another, or by a tablet or PC. Eric must have demonstrated this 500 times at Dayton and I daresay he's getting good at it.
>>
>> * Modularity -- We segregated the K4's modules in such a way as to facilitate easy update to units in the field if/when new tech becomes available. For example, we could quickly and cost-effectively incorporate a new ADC or DAC. Call it planned non-obsolescence. This the 20th anniversary of the K2, and the 10th anniversary of the K3. Both are still shipping.
>>
>> * Extensibility -- In addition to the HDR module, the user will be able to add a VHF/UHF module, which in turn could morph in the future. This philosophy extends to software as well, given the K4's general-purpose computing module [not Windows]. I like to think of it as our "app engine," limited only by the imagination of our software team and other talented contributors.
>>
>> * External monitor output -- HDMI, not DVI. (To each his own?)
>>
>> * Tuning aid -- The "mini-pan" is one of our favorite features of the K4. When you tap on a signal you don't just get a geometric magnification of the main panadapter's pixels; you get a re-sampled, high-resolution spectral display of as narrow as +/- 1 kHz (varying per mode). This is great for signal auto-spotting and left/right peak search. The mini-pan is per-receiver and can either be turned on automatically or by tapping either S-meter.
>>
>> • IO -- The K4's IO is a superset of the K3's, meaning it comes with all of the analog and control I/O you might need as well as 4 USB ports, Ethernet, etc.
>>
>> * Antenna sources -- There are up to 3 ATU antenna jacks and up to 5 receive antenna inputs.
>>
>> 73,
>> Wayne
>> N6KR
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Elecraft mailing list

Re: Elecraft IC-7610,

In reply to this post by Charlie T, K3ICH

Yeah, the 7610 surely resembles the K4. But how different can you make a rig with 2 vfo's and touch screen very much different looking. Take the top and bottomcovers off each rig and see what's inside and hook each up to an antenna and see how they perform in contest condx copying some weeny teeny signal.

There is a reason the 7610 is different than a K4 and it's not only the price. But the 7610 is a decent radio too. It all depends on what you want sitting on your shackdesk.
Whatever tames your pileups. The K3 is one of the best radios I have used and am glad I decided to buy it in 2009. I've listened to a lot of radios since 1963.

BillK3WJV

On Monday, May 20, 2019, 5:15:01 PM EDT, Charlie T <[hidden email]> wrote:

No, you didn’t miss anything.

No one “said” I should do anything.

However, it’s obvious to me that the K4 is basically an IC7610 on muscle building steroids and probably has an infusion of alien technology (new stuff, not the old 1947 Roswell cache).

There are features and performance that far exceed the Icom’s capabilities.

Even though, on the surface, they “look” somewhat alike.

My question (only to myself, but rhetorically stated) is should I make the switch?

73, Charlie k3ICH

From: David Bunte <[hidden email]>
Sent: Monday, May 20, 2019 2:38 PM
To: [hidden email]
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft IC-7610,

Charlie -

I have not read EVERYTHING in this thread... but I sure don’t recall anyone saying you should get rid of your IC-7610.

Maybe I missed something.

Dave - K9FN

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Re: Elecraft / IC-7610 comparison

In reply to this post by wayne burdick

Wayne

Please stop trying to distract me. I am trying very hard not to visualize the K4HD taking the place of my ft1000mp already sitting next to my loaded K3 with P3 (K3 purchased in 2009 serial #2995).I also replaced my manual tune Alpha with the KPA1500 (serial #153) and that combo is one of my so2r stations. I also have the Acom2000A but that is the companion of the ft1000mp. If I give intoseeing that K4HD instead of the Yaesu ft1k I will have to keep the Acom instead of getting a 2nd KPA1500. I apologize, I think.
BillK3WJV
p.s. I am still partial to tube amps though, hi, but do love my kpa.

On Monday, May 20, 2019, 8:40:56 PM EDT, Wayne Burdick <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Charlie, K3ICH, wrote:
>
> OK, So why should I [pejorative deleted] my IC-7610 for a K4?

Hi Charlie,

The '7610 is an impressive and capable radio. We have one in our shop and have put it on the air.

It's a bit of apples/oranges comparison to the K4, though. Since you asked ... here are some K4 characteristics to consider:

* Controls -- The K4's UI is quite different, borrowing heavily from the K3, but with an infusion of versatility due to the 7" display. It has the widest available viewing angle and is very bright. (K4 tire-kickers at Dayton were extremely complimentary about the display, which was gratifying after 200 or so iterations on the concept drawing by yours truly.) There are three multifunction knobs (not just one), each mapped to a semantic group, e.g. "XMIT". Their functions adapt to the current operating mode, etc. On the right side of the radio there are three 400-count, ball-bearing drive optical shaft encoders, for VFO A, VFO B, and RIT/XIT offset. No need to multi-task one or two controls. Bottom line: ease of use. If you do get stuck, there's a built-in help system.

* Dynamic range -- The K4 is a direct-sampling, dual-receiver radio in its base configuration. But those in high-signal environments can add the dual superhet module to realize a 20 to 25 dB improvement in headroom (blocking dynamic range) over any radio that is direct-sampling only. This is the same delta as, for example, a K3S vs. any other non-superhet on Sherwood's list.

* Portability -- The K4 weighs only about 10 pounds, draws only about 2 amps on RX, and can run down to 11 volts. It will try to drag you off to a Field Day site or remote island if not bolted to your desk.

• Remote control -- The K4 comes with remote-control via Ethernet built in. One K4 can controlled by another, or by a tablet or PC. Eric must have demonstrated this 500 times at Dayton and I daresay he's getting good at it.

* Modularity -- We segregated the K4's modules in such a way as to facilitate easy update to units in the field if/when new tech becomes available. For example, we could quickly and cost-effectively incorporate a new ADC or DAC. Call it planned non-obsolescence. This the 20th anniversary of the K2, and the 10th anniversary of the K3. Both are still shipping.

* Extensibility -- In addition to the HDR module, the user will be able to add a VHF/UHF module, which in turn could morph in the future. This philosophy extends to software as well, given the K4's general-purpose computing module [not Windows]. I like to think of it as our "app engine," limited only by the imagination of our software team and other talented contributors.

* External monitor output -- HDMI, not DVI. (To each his own?)

* Tuning aid -- The "mini-pan" is one of our favorite features of the K4. When you tap on a signal you don't just get a geometric magnification of the main panadapter's pixels; you get a re-sampled, high-resolution spectral display of as narrow as +/- 1 kHz (varying per mode). This is great for signal auto-spotting and left/right peak search. The mini-pan is per-receiver and can either be turned on automatically or by tapping either S-meter.

• IO -- The K4's IO is a superset of the K3's, meaning it comes with all of the analog and control I/O you might need as well as 4 USB ports, Ethernet, etc.

* Antenna sources -- There are up to 3 ATU antenna jacks and up to 5 receive antenna inputs.

73,
Wayne
N6KR

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iw2noy

Re: Elecraft / IC-7610 comparison

In reply to this post by Alan Bloom

Hello,

this is not good for K4. These products are thought to be manage by
operative systems and drivers (like Windows or Mac or Linux), this is
not the case of the K4 that have a custom "OS" and can't manage that
kind of devices.
Maybe you can use more complicated and expensive devices thought to be
used with RJ-45 ports, where this device use a DHCP and give an ip
address to the RJ-45 port creating a private network between the RJ-45
and the device, afterwards the device can access the WIFI network with
his wifi adapter and work like a bridge between the two network. In this
way, maybe, you can connect the K4 to the wifi in a more "natural" way.

Like this one for example:
https://www.amazon.com/Vonets-VAR11N-300-Multi-Functional-Wireless-Portable/dp/B01199OGK0/ref=sr_1_fkmrnull_1_sspa?keywords=vonets+VAR11+N-300&qid=1558431899&s=gateway&sr=8-1-fkmrnull-spons&psc=1

Best regards, Graziano Roccon IW2NOY / W2NOY

Il 21/05/2019 06:26 Alan ha scritto:

> For less than $10 you can buy a little WiFi adapter that plugs into a
> USB port. For example:
>
> https://www.amazon.com/TP-Link-TL-WN725N-wireless-network-Adapter/dp/B008IFXQFU/
>
>
> Alan N1AL
>
>
> On 5/20/19 8:24 PM, Brian Denley wrote:
>> Wayne:
>> When you mention that the K4 has Ethernet (which means cables to me),
>> it must also have WiFi if you can control with tablets, no?
>>
>> Brian
>> KB1VBF
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> On May 20, 2019, at 8:39 PM, Wayne Burdick <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>>> Charlie, K3ICH, wrote:
>>>>
>>>> OK, So why should I [pejorative deleted] my IC-7610 for a K4?
>>>
>>> Hi Charlie,
>>>
>>> The '7610 is an impressive and capable radio. We have one in our shop
>>> and have put it on the air.
>>>
>>> It's a bit of apples/oranges comparison to the K4, though. Since you
>>> asked ... here are some K4 characteristics to consider:
>>>
>>> * Controls -- The K4's UI is quite different, borrowing heavily from
>>> the K3, but with an infusion of versatility due to the 7" display. It
>>> has the widest available viewing angle and is very bright. (K4
>>> tire-kickers at Dayton were extremely complimentary about the
>>> display, which was gratifying after 200 or so iterations on the
>>> concept drawing by yours truly.) There are three multifunction knobs
>>> (not just one), each mapped to a semantic group, e.g. "XMIT". Their
>>> functions adapt to the current operating mode, etc. On the right side
>>> of the radio there are three 400-count, ball-bearing drive optical
>>> shaft encoders, for VFO A, VFO B, and RIT/XIT offset. No need to
>>> multi-task one or two controls. Bottom line: ease of use. If you do
>>> get stuck, there's a built-in help system.
>>>
>>> * Dynamic range -- The K4 is a direct-sampling, dual-receiver radio
>>> in its base configuration. But those in high-signal environments can
>>> add the dual superhet module to realize a 20 to 25 dB improvement in
>>> headroom (blocking dynamic range) over any radio that is
>>> direct-sampling only. This is the same delta as, for example, a K3S
>>> vs. any other non-superhet on Sherwood's list.
>>>
>>> * Portability -- The K4 weighs only about 10 pounds, draws only about
>>> 2 amps on RX, and can run down to 11 volts. It will try to drag you
>>> off to a Field Day site or remote island if not bolted to your desk.
>>>
>>> • Remote control -- The K4 comes with remote-control via Ethernet
>>> built in. One K4 can controlled by another, or by a tablet or PC.
>>> Eric must have demonstrated this 500 times at Dayton and I daresay
>>> he's getting good at it.
>>>
>>> * Modularity -- We segregated the K4's modules in such a way as to
>>> facilitate easy update to units in the field if/when new tech becomes
>>> available. For example, we could quickly and cost-effectively
>>> incorporate a new ADC or DAC. Call it planned non-obsolescence. This
>>> the 20th anniversary of the K2, and the 10th anniversary of the K3.
>>> Both are still shipping.
>>>
>>> * Extensibility -- In addition to the HDR module, the user will be
>>> able to add a VHF/UHF module, which in turn could morph in the
>>> future. This philosophy extends to software as well, given the K4's
>>> general-purpose computing module [not Windows]. I like to think of it
>>> as our "app engine," limited only by the imagination of our software
>>> team and other talented contributors.
>>>
>>> * External monitor output -- HDMI, not DVI. (To each his own?)
>>>
>>> * Tuning aid -- The "mini-pan" is one of our favorite features of the
>>> K4. When you tap on a signal you don't just get a geometric
>>> magnification of the main panadapter's pixels; you get a re-sampled,
>>> high-resolution spectral display of as narrow as +/- 1 kHz (varying
>>> per mode). This is great for signal auto-spotting and left/right peak
>>> search. The mini-pan is per-receiver and can either be turned on
>>> automatically or by tapping either S-meter.
>>>
>>> • IO -- The K4's IO is a superset of the K3's, meaning it comes with
>>> all of the analog and control I/O you might need as well as 4 USB
>>> ports, Ethernet, etc.
>>>
>>> * Antenna sources -- There are up to 3 ATU antenna jacks and up to 5
>>> receive antenna inputs.
>>>
>>> 73,
>>> Wayne
>>> N6KR
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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iw2noy

Elecraft K4 - WiFi ability

In reply to this post by Alan Bloom

ke9uw

Re: Elecraft / IC-7610 comparison

In reply to this post by wayne burdick

One thing that I am curious about with a transceiver is what it looks like inside with the cover off. Any chance of a picture like that of the K4 on the Elecraft site? When I think of my K3S, or look at it, the picture in my mind is all the insides as I put it together. I still remember vividly the view from the rear of my Drake 2B into the shiny copper colored chassis, tubes, and all.

Chuck Hawley
[hidden email]

Amateur Radio, KE9UW
aka Jack, BMW Motorcycles

________________________________
From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> on behalf of Wayne Burdick <[hidden email]>
Sent: Monday, May 20, 2019 7:39 PM
To: [hidden email]
Cc: Elecraft Reflector
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft / IC-7610 comparison

> Charlie, K3ICH, wrote:
>
> OK, So why should I [pejorative deleted] my IC-7610 for a K4?

Hi Charlie,

The '7610 is an impressive and capable radio. We have one in our shop and have put it on the air.

It's a bit of apples/oranges comparison to the K4, though. Since you asked ... here are some K4 characteristics to consider:

* Controls -- The K4's UI is quite different, borrowing heavily from the K3, but with an infusion of versatility due to the 7" display. It has the widest available viewing angle and is very bright. (K4 tire-kickers at Dayton were extremely complimentary about the display, which was gratifying after 200 or so iterations on the concept drawing by yours truly.) There are three multifunction knobs (not just one), each mapped to a semantic group, e.g. "XMIT". Their functions adapt to the current operating mode, etc. On the right side of the radio there are three 400-count, ball-bearing drive optical shaft encoders, for VFO A, VFO B, and RIT/XIT offset. No need to multi-task one or two controls. Bottom line: ease of use. If you do get stuck, there's a built-in help system.

* Dynamic range -- The K4 is a direct-sampling, dual-receiver radio in its base configuration. But those in high-signal environments can add the dual superhet module to realize a 20 to 25 dB improvement in headroom (blocking dynamic range) over any radio that is direct-sampling only. This is the same delta as, for example, a K3S vs. any other non-superhet on Sherwood's list.

* Portability -- The K4 weighs only about 10 pounds, draws only about 2 amps on RX, and can run down to 11 volts. It will try to drag you off to a Field Day site or remote island if not bolted to your desk.

• Remote control -- The K4 comes with remote-control via Ethernet built in. One K4 can controlled by another, or by a tablet or PC. Eric must have demonstrated this 500 times at Dayton and I daresay he's getting good at it.

* Modularity -- We segregated the K4's modules in such a way as to facilitate easy update to units in the field if/when new tech becomes available. For example, we could quickly and cost-effectively incorporate a new ADC or DAC. Call it planned non-obsolescence. This the 20th anniversary of the K2, and the 10th anniversary of the K3. Both are still shipping.

* Extensibility -- In addition to the HDR module, the user will be able to add a VHF/UHF module, which in turn could morph in the future. This philosophy extends to software as well, given the K4's general-purpose computing module [not Windows]. I like to think of it as our "app engine," limited only by the imagination of our software team and other talented contributors.

* External monitor output -- HDMI, not DVI. (To each his own?)

* Tuning aid -- The "mini-pan" is one of our favorite features of the K4. When you tap on a signal you don't just get a geometric magnification of the main panadapter's pixels; you get a re-sampled, high-resolution spectral display of as narrow as +/- 1 kHz (varying per mode). This is great for signal auto-spotting and left/right peak search. The mini-pan is per-receiver and can either be turned on automatically or by tapping either S-meter.

• IO -- The K4's IO is a superset of the K3's, meaning it comes with all of the analog and control I/O you might need as well as 4 USB ports, Ethernet, etc.

* Antenna sources -- There are up to 3 ATU antenna jacks and up to 5 receive antenna inputs.

73,
Wayne
N6KR

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Chuck, KE9UW

Bill-3

Re: Elecraft / IC-7610 comparison

Chuck: Hate to disappoint, but the inside of the K4 will no doubt look
like a computer (my K3 does) - which is exactly what it is. Nothing
recognizable as RF related for us old timers to relate to.

Don't get me wrong. I like my new rigs, but I do miss things I could
understand (and repair). To say nothing of the warm glow on a winter night.

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Elecraft mailing list

Re: Elecraft / IC-7610 comparison

Maybe provide an overlay picture when you take off the cover that looks like an old tube rig including the tube glow?
Also, Elecraft can offer an option for those that feel a rig has to weigh a lot to work - steel plates with the Elecraft logo in 5 and 10 lb. increments that can be "stacked" on the bottom of the rig for extra weight.
N2TK, Tony

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Bill
Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2019 9:58 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft / IC-7610 comparison

Chuck: Hate to disappoint, but the inside of the K4 will no doubt look like a computer (my K3 does) - which is exactly what it is. Nothing recognizable as RF related for us old timers to relate to.

Don't get me wrong. I like my new rigs, but I do miss things I could understand (and repair). To say nothing of the warm glow on a winter night.

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Scott Russell

Re: Elecraft IC-7610,

In reply to this post by Charlie T, K3ICH

Hey Charlie,

If you don’t mind I’ll share my thoughts coming from a Flex 6400 owner(I do
own a KX2 and KX3 too). Last year I moved to the Flex because at that time
it appeared to be the best option in the SDR world. I’ve always loved
Elecraft but the K3S and P3 were a bit out of my price range at the time and
didn’t have some of the features I was looking for since I was looking more
to SDR type products.

Fast forward to today with the K4 I am super impressed and it’s features out
way those of the Flex. That’s my opinion. One in particular, which Wayne
stated in this tread is the K4’s modularity. This is one thing that has been
in the back of my mind ever since owning the Flex. As far a I can tell Flex
(along with Icom, Yeasu, Kenwood) doesn’t have the ability built into the
hardware. At least they haven’t said and I’m sure they would have if they
did. This is a concern. Not only do Flex owners have to pay for software
updates, at what point will they have to upgrade the hardware to take
advantage of new features in software that can only be used with newer
hardware such as ADC? That’s huge in my mind and with Elecraft track record
with older models still being sold is a big advantage.

The 7610 and radios like Flex are wonderful radios, don’t get me wrong, but
I feel Elecraft is on the right and better track when it comes to listening
to their customers and producing a radio that works and works well for all
types of ham operator.

Hopefully I’ll be a K4 owner one day so I can have that piece of mind that
it will serve well for years to come.

Scott N1SER

--
Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/
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Edward R Cole

Re: Elecraft / IC-7610 comparison

In reply to this post by wayne burdick

And that appears to solve a big part of operating the radio
remotely. Other replies indicate easy/cheap WiFi devices that can be
driven by RJ45, so that solves operating from a minipad like the
ipad, which has no physical connections. I suppose that was what was
demo'd at Hamvention.

73, Ed - KL7UW

Date: Mon, 20 May 2019 21:57:15 -0700
From: "Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft" <[hidden email]>
To: Brian Denley <[hidden email]>
Cc: Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft / IC-7610 comparison
Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

Hi Brian,

Its a regular RJ-45 Ethernet jack on the rear of the K4. (I believe
it is gigabit ethernet..) Usually your network router provides the
wifi to connect wirelessly in the house (also including a DCHP iP
address server.)

Embedding wifi in the radio is problematic as it is a rapidly
evolving technology with regular changes in security features, speed
etc that are best handled by router sw and hw upgrades. Its unlikely
wifi will stay constant over the radio's life.

73,
Eric
elecraft.com

73, Ed - KL7UW
http://www.kl7uw.com
Dubus-NA Business mail:
[hidden email]

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Grant Youngman-2

Re: Elecraft K4 - WiFi ability

In reply to this post by iw2noy

There were a couple of comments by Wayne during some pre-announcement “speculation” on the K4. If my memory serves me correctly the discussion was around the possibility of there being a Linux machine in the radio.

Presuming there is in fact s Linux machine in the K4, then it is probably tasked with managing I/O and networking, in addition to the remote connection server, and whatever else. So there would be a standard OS type available for managing thing like a wireless adapter.

Guesswork of course, since (at least in the videos I saw) there was no explicit discussion of the network environment in the booth or exactly how the K4 was connected to the wireless network. Wayne did comment that they were using the infrastructure installed at the hamfest facility. But there was clearly a wireless connection to the Microsoft table computer, which was running client side remote software in a Linux virtual machine.

Eventually, there will be block diagrams of the control/processing structure in the radio .. and more will be known.

Grant NQ5T
K3 #2091 KX3 #8342

>
>
> this is not good for K4. These products are thought to be manage by operative systems and drivers (like Windows or Mac or Linux), this is not the case of the K4 that have a custom "OS" and can't manage that kind of devices.
> Maybe you can use more complicated and expensive devices thought to be used with RJ-45 ports,

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Edward H Russell

Re: Elecraft IC-7610,

In reply to this post by Scott Russell

I'd also like to share my experience of coming upon the K4. I am a long time user of Flex SDR radios. I still have an operational 5000, and my main SDR for the past half dozen or so years has been a 6700. All the while I have kept a conventional radio along side. I like to listen and experiment with the Flex, but it's the conventional radio I really love to operate.

My conventional radio is a now antique Kenwood TS-950sdx. I have kept it so long because in searching I have not found a replacement. The K3s has long been a top candidate and if I lost my old friend, would have gone that route. The Icom 7610 looks interesting. It's more of a hybrid, with SDR features but built like a conventional radio. It had been highly recommended, and I was considering it.

Then a few days ago along comes the K4 announcement. My long experience with both conventional and SDR radios brought me to realize immediately, this is it! Wayne's earlier email hits many of the spots that are attractive. I especially like the mini-panadapters, which I do with the 6700, but in a very cumbersome way. But the main attraction is the promise that it will behave like -- have the look and feel of -- a conventional radio, while being saturated with SDR features to the core.

I actually pre-ordered a K4D soon after absorbing the specifications. So while the 6700 will remain an important part of my station for the forseeable future, I'm on board and excited about the coming K4!

Tks,

73 Ed w2rf

E.H. Russell, w2rf

706 New England Rd

Cape May NJ 08204

Mobile 609-827-2707

Email <mailto:[hidden email]> [hidden email]

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Scott Russell
Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2019 10:44 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft IC-7610,

Hey Charlie,

If you don’t mind I’ll share my thoughts coming from a Flex 6400 owner(I do own a KX2 and KX3 too). Last year I moved to the Flex because at that time it appeared to be the best option in the SDR world. I’ve always loved Elecraft but the K3S and P3 were a bit out of my price range at the time and didn’t have some of the features I was looking for since I was looking more to SDR type products.

Fast forward to today with the K4 I am super impressed and it’s features out way those of the Flex. That’s my opinion. One in particular, which Wayne stated in this tread is the K4’s modularity. This is one thing that has been in the back of my mind ever since owning the Flex. As far a I can tell Flex (along with Icom, Yeasu, Kenwood) doesn’t have the ability built into the hardware. At least they haven’t said and I’m sure they would have if they did. This is a concern. Not only do Flex owners have to pay for software updates, at what point will they have to upgrade the hardware to take advantage of new features in software that can only be used with newer hardware such as ADC? That’s huge in my mind and with Elecraft track record with older models still being sold is a big advantage.

The 7610 and radios like Flex are wonderful radios, don’t get me wrong, but I feel Elecraft is on the right and better track when it comes to listening to their customers and producing a radio that works and works well for all types of ham operator.

Hopefully I’ll be a K4 owner one day so I can have that piece of mind that it will serve well for years to come.

Scott N1SER

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