Elecraft

Re: Elecraft] RFI on K3s

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k6dgw

Re: Elecraft] RFI on K3s

Home Depot is in Israel too?

Fred K6DGW

Vic Rosenthal <[hidden email]> wrote:

>Get some no. 10 stranded wire at Home Depot (etc.), double it over, put one end in a vise and the other in the chuck of your electric drill and twist away. Not shielded, but much better than parallel wires. I suppose you could strip some RG-8 if you really wanted to shield it.
>
>Vic 4X6GP
>
>> On 20 Jun 2016, at 22:54, DGB <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Jim ... where does one find #10 twisted pair? Is it shielded?
>>
>> thanks 73 Dwight NS9I
>>
>>> On 6/20/2016 12:59 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
>>>> On Mon,6/20/2016 10:33 AM, James Walker wrote:
>>>> Is it normal to register voltage as low as I’m seeing on my K-3?
>>>
>>> What you're seeing sounds like IR drop in the DC cable. How long is the DC cable between the K3 and the power supply? What wire gauge? Is there any equipment (like distribution panel) in between?
>>>
>>> This is a great application for a short length of #10 twisted pair between the PSU and rig.
>>>
>>> 73, Jim K9YC
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
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>>
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>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
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>______________________________________________________________
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Vic Rosenthal

Re: Elecraft] RFI on K3s

No, unfortunately.
There is a large Ace Hardware near me and places to buy building
materials, but it's the not the same.

73,
Vic, 4X6GP
Rehovot, Israel
Formerly K2VCO
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/

On 21 Jun 2016 08:19, Fred C. Jensen wrote:

> Home Depot is in Israel too?
>
> Fred K6DGW
>
> Vic Rosenthal <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Get some no. 10 stranded wire at Home Depot (etc.), double it over, put one end in a vise and the other in the chuck of your electric drill and twist away. Not shielded, but much better than parallel wires. I suppose you could strip some RG-8 if you really wanted to shield it.
>>
>> Vic 4X6GP
>>
>>> On 20 Jun 2016, at 22:54, DGB <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Jim ... where does one find #10 twisted pair? Is it shielded?
>>>
>>> thanks 73 Dwight NS9I
>>>
>>>> On 6/20/2016 12:59 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
>>>>> On Mon,6/20/2016 10:33 AM, James Walker wrote:
>>>>> Is it normal to register voltage as low as I’m seeing on my K-3?
>>>>
>>>> What you're seeing sounds like IR drop in the DC cable. How long is the DC cable between the K3 and the power supply? What wire gauge? Is there any equipment (like distribution panel) in between?
>>>>
>>>> This is a great application for a short length of #10 twisted pair between the PSU and rig.
>>>>
>>>> 73, Jim K9YC

Guy Olinger K2AV

Re: Elecraft] RFI on K3s

If one has a source of the red/black #10 zip cord (seemingly very common in
the US), then simply zip it apart, and then twist it yourself. Then you
still have the advantage of the color-coded wires.

The #10 stuff I've got is 2 round insulated #10 medium stranded wires, one
red insulated, one black, tacked together, which separates very easily to a
pair of round wires, ideal for twisting.

The better deal is to keep all leads as short as possible.

73, Guy K2AV

On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 10:48 AM, Walter Underwood <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Belen appears to make a 10 AWG twisted pair cable, but I only see it
> available in 500 foot spools. Search for "Belden 8678”.
>
>
> https://www.anixter.com/en_us/products/5T00UP-008500/BELDEN/Multi-Pair-Multi-Conductor-Cable/p/B5T00UP-500
> <
> https://www.anixter.com/en_us/products/5T00UP-008500/BELDEN/Multi-Pair-Multi-Conductor-Cable/p/B5T00UP-500
> >
> http://www.alliedelec.com/belden-8678-060500/70004200/ <
> http://www.alliedelec.com/belden-8678-060500/70004200/>
>
> http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Belden-Wire-Cable/8678-060500/?qs=GjJS1gozy%2FMvzJLBfKAfoA%3D%3D
> <
> http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Belden-Wire-Cable/8678-060500/?qs=GjJS1gozy/MvzJLBfKAfoA==
> >
>
> Might be worth organizing a group or club purchase. Or maybe PowerWerx
> could carry it.
>
> wunder
> K6WRU
> Walter Underwood
> CM87wj
> http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)
>
> > On Jun 20, 2016, at 11:19 PM, Vic Rosenthal 4X6GP <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >
> > No, unfortunately.
> > There is a large Ace Hardware near me and places to buy building
> materials, but it's the not the same.
> >
> > 73,
> > Vic, 4X6GP
> > Rehovot, Israel
> > Formerly K2VCO
> > http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
> >
> > On 21 Jun 2016 08:19, Fred C. Jensen wrote:
> >> Home Depot is in Israel too?
> >>
> >> Fred K6DGW
> >>
> >> Vic Rosenthal <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >>> Get some no. 10 stranded wire at Home Depot (etc.), double it over,
> put one end in a vise and the other in the chuck of your electric drill and
> twist away. Not shielded, but much better than parallel wires. I suppose
> you could strip some RG-8 if you really wanted to shield it.
> >>>
> >>> Vic 4X6GP
> >>>
> >>>> On 20 Jun 2016, at 22:54, DGB <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Jim ... where does one find #10 twisted pair? Is it shielded?
> >>>>
> >>>> thanks 73 Dwight NS9I
> >>>>
> >>>>> On 6/20/2016 12:59 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
> >>>>>> On Mon,6/20/2016 10:33 AM, James Walker wrote:
> >>>>>> Is it normal to register voltage as low as I’m seeing on my K-3?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> What you're seeing sounds like IR drop in the DC cable. How long is
> the DC cable between the K3 and the power supply? What wire gauge? Is there
> any equipment (like distribution panel) in between?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> This is a great application for a short length of #10 twisted pair
> between the PSU and rig.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 73, Jim K9YC
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> > Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

Bob Novas

Re: Elecraft] RFI on K3s

FWIW - twisted pair calculator - https://www.eeweb.com/toolbox/twisted-pair

Bob - W3DK

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Guy
> Olinger K2AV
> Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2016 11:09 AM
> To: Walter Underwood
> Cc: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft] RFI on K3s
>
> If one has a source of the red/black #10 zip cord (seemingly very common in the
> US), then simply zip it apart, and then twist it yourself. Then you still have the
> advantage of the color-coded wires.
>
> The #10 stuff I've got is 2 round insulated #10 medium stranded wires, one red
> insulated, one black, tacked together, which separates very easily to a pair of
> round wires, ideal for twisting.
>
> The better deal is to keep all leads as short as possible.
>
> 73, Guy K2AV
>
> On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 10:48 AM, Walter Underwood
> <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > Belen appears to make a 10 AWG twisted pair cable, but I only see it
> > available in 500 foot spools. Search for "Belden 8678”.
> >
> >
> > https://www.anixter.com/en_us/products/5T00UP-008500/BELDEN/Multi-
> Pair
> > -Multi-Conductor-Cable/p/B5T00UP-500
> > <
> > https://www.anixter.com/en_us/products/5T00UP-008500/BELDEN/Multi-
> Pair
> > -Multi-Conductor-Cable/p/B5T00UP-500
> > >
> > http://www.alliedelec.com/belden-8678-060500/70004200/ <
> > http://www.alliedelec.com/belden-8678-060500/70004200/>
> >
> > http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Belden-Wire-Cable/8678-
> 060500/?qs=
> > GjJS1gozy%2FMvzJLBfKAfoA%3D%3D
> > <
> > http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Belden-Wire-Cable/8678-
> 060500/?qs=
> > GjJS1gozy/MvzJLBfKAfoA==
> > >
> >
> > Might be worth organizing a group or club purchase. Or maybe PowerWerx
> > could carry it.
> >
> > wunder
> > K6WRU
> > Walter Underwood
> > CM87wj
> > http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)
> >
> > > On Jun 20, 2016, at 11:19 PM, Vic Rosenthal 4X6GP
> > > <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > No, unfortunately.
> > > There is a large Ace Hardware near me and places to buy building
> > materials, but it's the not the same.
> > >
> > > 73,
> > > Vic, 4X6GP
> > > Rehovot, Israel
> > > Formerly K2VCO
> > > http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
> > >
> > > On 21 Jun 2016 08:19, Fred C. Jensen wrote:
> > >> Home Depot is in Israel too?
> > >>
> > >> Fred K6DGW
> > >>
> > >> Vic Rosenthal <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > >>> Get some no. 10 stranded wire at Home Depot (etc.), double it
> > >>> over,
> > put one end in a vise and the other in the chuck of your electric
> > drill and twist away. Not shielded, but much better than parallel
> > wires. I suppose you could strip some RG-8 if you really wanted to shield it.
> > >>>
> > >>> Vic 4X6GP
> > >>>
> > >>>> On 20 Jun 2016, at 22:54, DGB <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Jim ... where does one find #10 twisted pair? Is it shielded?
> > >>>>
> > >>>> thanks 73 Dwight NS9I
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> On 6/20/2016 12:59 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
> > >>>>>> On Mon,6/20/2016 10:33 AM, James Walker wrote:
> > >>>>>> Is it normal to register voltage as low as I’m seeing on my K-3?
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> What you're seeing sounds like IR drop in the DC cable. How long
> > >>>>> is
> > the DC cable between the K3 and the power supply? What wire gauge? Is
> > there any equipment (like distribution panel) in between?
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> This is a great application for a short length of #10 twisted
> > >>>>> pair
> > between the PSU and rig.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> 73, Jim K9YC
> > > ______________________________________________________________
> > > Elecraft mailing list
> > > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> > >
> > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this
> > > email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to
> > > [hidden email]
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email
> > list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to
> > [hidden email]
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message
> delivered to [hidden email]

briancom

Re: Elecraft] RFI on K3s

In reply to this post by Guy Olinger K2AV

Perhaps rightly so, all this is focusing on RFI getting into the radio
via the antenna.

Nothing has been mentioned on what had been standard practice years ago.

That is installing a good RFI filter on the mains right at the station.
These filter can knock things down 40 dB in both directions.

73 de Brian/K3KO

On 6/21/2016 15:08 PM, Guy Olinger K2AV wrote:

> If one has a source of the red/black #10 zip cord (seemingly very common in
> the US), then simply zip it apart, and then twist it yourself. Then you
> still have the advantage of the color-coded wires.
>
> The #10 stuff I've got is 2 round insulated #10 medium stranded wires, one
> red insulated, one black, tacked together, which separates very easily to a
> pair of round wires, ideal for twisting.
>
> The better deal is to keep all leads as short as possible.
>
> 73, Guy K2AV
>
> On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 10:48 AM, Walter Underwood <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>> Belen appears to make a 10 AWG twisted pair cable, but I only see it
>> available in 500 foot spools. Search for "Belden 8678”.
>>
>>
>> https://www.anixter.com/en_us/products/5T00UP-008500/BELDEN/Multi-Pair-Multi-Conductor-Cable/p/B5T00UP-500
>> <
>> https://www.anixter.com/en_us/products/5T00UP-008500/BELDEN/Multi-Pair-Multi-Conductor-Cable/p/B5T00UP-500
>>>
>> http://www.alliedelec.com/belden-8678-060500/70004200/ <
>> http://www.alliedelec.com/belden-8678-060500/70004200/>
>>
>> http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Belden-Wire-Cable/8678-060500/?qs=GjJS1gozy%2FMvzJLBfKAfoA%3D%3D
>> <
>> http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Belden-Wire-Cable/8678-060500/?qs=GjJS1gozy/MvzJLBfKAfoA==
>>>
>>
>> Might be worth organizing a group or club purchase. Or maybe PowerWerx
>> could carry it.
>>
>> wunder
>> K6WRU
>> Walter Underwood
>> CM87wj
>> http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)
>>
>>> On Jun 20, 2016, at 11:19 PM, Vic Rosenthal 4X6GP <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> No, unfortunately.
>>> There is a large Ace Hardware near me and places to buy building
>> materials, but it's the not the same.
>>>
>>> 73,
>>> Vic, 4X6GP
>>> Rehovot, Israel
>>> Formerly K2VCO
>>> http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
>>>
>>> On 21 Jun 2016 08:19, Fred C. Jensen wrote:
>>>> Home Depot is in Israel too?
>>>>
>>>> Fred K6DGW
>>>>
>>>> Vic Rosenthal <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>> Get some no. 10 stranded wire at Home Depot (etc.), double it over,
>> put one end in a vise and the other in the chuck of your electric drill and
>> twist away. Not shielded, but much better than parallel wires. I suppose
>> you could strip some RG-8 if you really wanted to shield it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Vic 4X6GP
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 20 Jun 2016, at 22:54, DGB <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jim ... where does one find #10 twisted pair? Is it shielded?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> thanks 73 Dwight NS9I
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 6/20/2016 12:59 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Mon,6/20/2016 10:33 AM, James Walker wrote:
>>>>>>>> Is it normal to register voltage as low as I’m seeing on my K-3?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What you're seeing sounds like IR drop in the DC cable. How long is
>> the DC cable between the K3 and the power supply? What wire gauge? Is there
>> any equipment (like distribution panel) in between?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This is a great application for a short length of #10 twisted pair
>> between the PSU and rig.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 73, Jim K9YC
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

Jim Brown-10

Re: Elecraft] RFI on K3s

In reply to this post by Vic Rosenthal

I'm a big fan of Belden cables, but why go to the trouble of a group
purchase when it is so easy to make your own twisted pair from lengths
of stranded cable we can buy at the local big box store? The Belden
cables referenced are primarily used for loudspeaker wiring in big sound
systems. I specified a lot of it when I was designing systems like that.

Another point though. Hams in general, and Elecraft in particular,
should be using twisted pair for loudspeaker and power wiring in our
stations. It's not a cure for RFI, but it is a positive step, because it
prevents differential mode coupling of RF to that wiring. Ditto for
loudspeaker wiring in home entertainment systems. Over the years, I've
cured lots of RFI to these systems by replacing zip cord, glorified or
plain, with twisted pair.

73, Jim K9YC

On Tue,6/21/2016 7:48 AM, Walter Underwood wrote:
> Belden appears to make a 10 AWG twisted pair cable, but I only see it available in 500 foot spools. Search for "Belden 8678”.
>
> Might be worth organizing a group or club purchase. Or maybe PowerWerx could carry it.

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
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Message delivered to [hidden email]

Peter Pauly

Re: Elecraft] RFI on K3s

In reply to this post by Vic Rosenthal

The datasheet for this product doesn't say anything about it being twisted.
In fact, they call it parallel in the description.

http://www.belden.com/techdatas/metric/8678.pdf

On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 10:48 AM, Walter Underwood <[hidden email]>
wrote:

Jim Brown-10

Re: Elecraft] RFI on K3s

In reply to this post by briancom

On Tue,6/21/2016 9:22 AM, brian wrote:
> Nothing has been mentioned on what had been standard practice years ago.
>
> That is installing a good RFI filter on the mains right at the station.
> These filter can knock things down 40 dB in both directions.

The reason nothing has been mentioned about it is that it doesn't do
much to solve RFI problems. That's because MOST RF noise is coupled by
common mode radiation from systems and common mode reception to systems,
not by differential mode, and these filters do NOTHING to kill common
mode current.

The data sheets for commercial filters quote numbers for "common mode"
suppression, but what the power industry calls common mode is the
voltage between neutral and the green wire. That's NOT what the rest of
the world calls common mode, which is a longitudinal current ALONG the
cable pair, and which causes the cable to radiate (and receive) like
any other antenna.

More than five years ago, I bought some good commercial power line
filters and mounted them in electrical boxes to put in line with the
output of the Honda 2000i generators that we use for CQP county
expeditions and Field Day. Those filters did NOTHING to suppress the
noise. What DID work was a common mode choke formed by winding 4-5 turns
of the power cable through 5 #31 cores.

73, Jim K9YC

______________________________________________________________
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briancom

Re: Elecraft] RFI on K3s

Interesting. Putting one on my dishwasher almost completely silenced
it. It had been S8.

I'm thinking of adding one to the XYL's treadmill.

73 de Brian/K3KO

On 6/21/2016 16:42 PM, Jim Brown wrote:

> On Tue,6/21/2016 9:22 AM, brian wrote:
>> Nothing has been mentioned on what had been standard practice years ago.
>>
>> That is installing a good RFI filter on the mains right at the station.
>> These filter can knock things down 40 dB in both directions.
>
>
> The reason nothing has been mentioned about it is that it doesn't do
> much to solve RFI problems. That's because MOST RF noise is coupled by
> common mode radiation from systems and common mode reception to systems,
> not by differential mode, and these filters do NOTHING to kill common
> mode current.
>
> The data sheets for commercial filters quote numbers for "common mode"
> suppression, but what the power industry calls common mode is the
> voltage between neutral and the green wire. That's NOT what the rest of
> the world calls common mode, which is a longitudinal current ALONG the
> cable pair, and which causes the cable to radiate (and receive) like
> any other antenna.
>
> More than five years ago, I bought some good commercial power line
> filters and mounted them in electrical boxes to put in line with the
> output of the Honda 2000i generators that we use for CQP county
> expeditions and Field Day. Those filters did NOTHING to suppress the
> noise. What DID work was a common mode choke formed by winding 4-5 turns
> of the power cable through 5 #31 cores.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

Clay Autery

Re: Elecraft] RFI on K3s

In reply to this post by Vic Rosenthal

I'd likely be interested in about 100 feet. Have to study the specs
more, but Anixster's part is half the cost of the others...

______________________
Clay Autery, KY5G
MONTAC Enterprises
(318) 518-1389

On 6/21/2016 9:48 AM, Walter Underwood wrote:

> Belen appears to make a 10 AWG twisted pair cable, but I only see it available in 500 foot spools. Search for "Belden 8678”.
>
> https://www.anixter.com/en_us/products/5T00UP-008500/BELDEN/Multi-Pair-Multi-Conductor-Cable/p/B5T00UP-500 <https://www.anixter.com/en_us/products/5T00UP-008500/BELDEN/Multi-Pair-Multi-Conductor-Cable/p/B5T00UP-500>
> http://www.alliedelec.com/belden-8678-060500/70004200/ <http://www.alliedelec.com/belden-8678-060500/70004200/>
> http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Belden-Wire-Cable/8678-060500/?qs=GjJS1gozy%2FMvzJLBfKAfoA%3D%3D <http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Belden-Wire-Cable/8678-060500/?qs=GjJS1gozy/MvzJLBfKAfoA==>
>
> Might be worth organizing a group or club purchase. Or maybe PowerWerx could carry it.
>
> wunder
> K6WRU
> Walter Underwood
> CM87wj
> http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)

Jim Brown-10

Twisted Pair Cables for DC Power

On Tue,6/21/2016 10:56 AM, Clay Autery wrote:
> Belen appears to make a 10 AWG twisted pair cable, but I only see it available in 500 foot spools. Search for "Belden 8678”.

This is NOT a single twisted pair, it is 6 pairs of #22. It is CONTROL
cable, not power cable.

Belden does make #10-2 jacketed stranded twisted pair cables. The least
exotic is 5T00UP. It is sold in 500 ft and 1,000 ft lengths.

Belden 8477 is #12-2, jacketed stranded twisted pair.

West Penn C210, 25210, and HA210 are #10-2 jacketed stranded twisted
pair cables. The difference between them is the fire rating of their
insulation and jacket materials. West Penn C208 is #8-2 jacket stranded
twisted pair. They are designed for loudspeaker wiring in large
permanently installed sound systems. Part of what you're paying for in
these cables is that fire rating.

73, Jim K9YC
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Clay Autery

Re: Twisted Pair Cables for DC Power

Should offer as an non-standard option... putting UTP/STP power cables
in the standard pack would result in a non-trivial materials cost increase.

______________________
Clay Autery, KY5G
MONTAC Enterprises
(318) 518-1389

On 6/21/2016 2:04 PM, Walter Underwood wrote:

> It would be lovely if manufacturers started supplying this sort of cable with their radios.
>
> Hint, hint.
>
> wunder
> K6WRU
> Walter Underwood
> CM87wj
> http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)
>

w4sc-2

Re: Elecraft] RFI on K3s

In reply to this post by k6dgw

Some one ask for this........

On ePay:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-feet-10-AWG-Shielded-Twisted-Pair-Silver-Plated-Cable-speaker-wire-37-strands-/381493258989?hash=item58d2c52aed:g:2YEAAOSwTapV4jU~

de Ben W4SC
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Grant Youngman-2

Re: Elecraft] RFI on K3s

I'm still wondering why anyone would BUY a bit of 10 ga twisted pair. It blows the mind.

To each his own I suppose .... but really?

On the other hand, I do know one or two hams who will stare at a pair of RCA plugs and a bit of wire with a deer-in-the-headlights look in their eyes and then drive to RS to buy a cable.

smh ...

Grant NQ5T

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 21, 2016, at 3:51 PM, w4sc <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Some one ask for this........
>
> On ePay:
>
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-feet-10-AWG-Shielded-Twisted-Pair-Silver-Plated-Cable-speaker-wire-37-strands-/381493258989?hash=item58d2c52aed:g:2YEAAOSwTapV4jU~
>
>
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riese-k3djc

Re: Elecraft] RFI on K3s

In reply to this post by k6dgw

its silver plated

Bob K3DJC
On Tue, 21 Jun 2016 16:43:44 -0500 Grant Youngman <[hidden email]>
writes:

> I'm still wondering why anyone would BUY a bit of 10 ga twisted pair.
> It blows the mind.
>
> To each his own I suppose .... but really?
>
> On the other hand, I do know one or two hams who will stare at a
> pair of RCA plugs and a bit of wire with a deer-in-the-headlights
> look in their eyes and then drive to RS to buy a cable.
>
> smh ...
>
> Grant NQ5T
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Jun 21, 2016, at 3:51 PM, w4sc <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > Some one ask for this........
> >
> > On ePay:
> >
> >
>

http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-feet-10-AWG-Shielded-Twisted-Pair-Silver-Plate
d-Cable-speaker-wire-37-strands-/381493258989?hash=item58d2c52aed:g:2YEAA
OSwTapV4jU~

> >
> >
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

Jim Brown-10

Re: Elecraft] RFI on K3s

On Tue,6/21/2016 3:05 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
> its silver plated

Which, contrary to the hype from ripoff artists in the high futility
world will try to tell you, offers NO performance benefit over POC
(plain, ordinary copper) in even the most esoteric of audio systems.

There's a classic AES Paper from the '70s by E.E. Prof R. A. Greiner
(now emeritus) who was at Univ of Wis at Madison showing conclusively
that exotic loudspeaker cables are a complete waste of money, and the
only thing that matters for real world loudspeakers is low DC
resistance. In other words, short, fat copper. The thing it affects is
"damping factor" -- that is, the ability of the very low Z output stage
to damp a floppy woofer. Damping factor is, by definition, the Z of the
loudspeaker divided by the sum of the output Z of the amplifier plus the
resistance of the cable, and it's low frequencies we're talking about,
so it's DCR.
There's a classic AES Paper from the '70s by E.E. Prof R. A. Greiner
(now emeritus) who was at Univ of Wis at Madison showing conclusively
that exotic loudspeaker cables are a complete waste of money, and the
only thing that matters for real world loudspeakers is low DC
resistance. In other words, short, fat copper. The thing it affects is
"damping factor" -- that is, the ability of the very low Z output stage
to damp a floppy woofer. Damping factor is, by definition, the Z of the
loudspeaker divided by the sum of the output Z of the amplifier plus the
resistance of the cable, and it's low frequencies we're talking about,
so it's DCR.

There's a classic AES Paper from the '70s by E.E. Prof R. A. Greiner
(now emeritus) who was at Univ of Wis at Madison showing conclusively
that exotic loudspeaker cables are a complete waste of money, and the
only thing that matters for real world loudspeakers is low DC
resistance. In other words, short, fat copper.

The thing it affects is "damping factor" -- that is, the ability of the
very low Z output stage to damp a floppy woofer. Damping factor is, by
definition, the Z of the loudspeaker divided by the sum of the output Z
of the amplifier plus the resistance of the cable, and it's low
frequencies we're talking about, so it's DCR.

The laws of physics have not changed since the '70s. :)

73, Jim K9YC

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Jim Brown-10

Re: Elecraft] RFI on K3s

On Tue,6/21/2016 5:41 PM, Walter Underwood wrote:
> But thanks to the skin effect, silver plated power cables should conduct RFI energy BETTER than regular copper cables.

Yes, but those silver plated cables are being touted for for
loudspeakers, where, as I noted in an earlier post, cable resistance
matters at LOW audio frequencies (200 Hz and below). And the application
we're talking about here is for DC power. In both applications, there is
NO skin effect.

73, Jim K9YC

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Clay Autery

Re: Elecraft] RFI on K3s

In reply to this post by Grant Youngman-2

It IS really nice cable though... Used that type and multi-conductor of
same spec to wire helicopters when I was a Aviation MTP... Beautiful stuff.

______________________
Clay Autery, KY5G
MONTAC Enterprises
(318) 518-1389

On 6/21/2016 4:43 PM, Grant Youngman wrote:

> I'm still wondering why anyone would BUY a bit of 10 ga twisted pair. It blows the mind.
>
> To each his own I suppose .... but really?
>
> On the other hand, I do know one or two hams who will stare at a pair of RCA plugs and a bit of wire with a deer-in-the-headlights look in their eyes and then drive to RS to buy a cable.
>
> smh ...
>
> Grant NQ5T
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>