Re: [FT817] ELECRAFT
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Hi Johnny,
I thought about an FT817, but my reasoning was similar to the points you listed. In addition, a friend of mine lent me an FT817 to play with, and to do the least little thing you need to go menu diving. On the Elecraft gear, most of these common functions seem to be readily accessible from the front controls. As you point out, a used K2 could be a very good deal. The main problem with a used K2, though, is that you miss out on all the fun of building it yourself :-) I must admit, earlier in the year I was thinking about a K2, but was a bit worried about the size for a portable setup. But then of course the KX3 was announced, which fit my requirements perfectly. I have ordered a KX3 without a roofing filter, so it will be interesting to see how well it performs with just the DSP filtering. I do love the flexibility of the DSP filtering on my IC7000. However, the nice thing about the KX3 is that I have the option to add a roofing filter later if I find it is needed, whereas in the IC7000, I don't think adding/narrowing IF filtering before the DSP is really feasible. 73 Matt VK2ACL. On 30/12/2011, at 11:54 AM, Johnny Siu wrote: > I once used FT817ND for portable operation but I eventually gave it up and replaced it by a K2. My reasons are: > ... > 1. I was disappointed by the RX performance of FT817 and K2 is far better. FT817 is hot enough to receive everything but I cannot select the station I wanted - very poor selectivity indeed; > 2. Current drain of K2 is as low as 180ma; > 3. Built-in ATU of K2 (swr 10:1) is convenivent; > 4. Built-in speech processor of K2 gives much more talk power; > 5. K2 can deliver more power at 10-15W; > 6. The V/U operation of FT817 can be covered by H/T > 7. A full loaded FT817 with filters, OBP processor etc is not that cheap > > Most of the above rationale also applies to the decision between KX3 Vs FT817 though it is not quite an apple to apple comparison. Having said that, I still consider FT817 is very value for money because its price in VR2 is less than US$600. > > With the coming of KX3, I notice many good deals for used K2. If you do not too keen on v/u, used K2 could be a good buy. > > TNX & 73, > > > Johnny VR2XMC > > 從︰ egsise <[hidden email]> > 收件人︰ [hidden email] > 傳送日期︰ 2011年12月30日 (週五) 7:40 AM > 主題︰ [FT817] Re: ELECRAFT > > > > Ok ok the KX3 looks good on paper, relax it's not an iphone you need to defend. > To be honest it's not the price that matters so much, it's just not tested yet. > So I highly doubt that the battery drain is lower than FT-817's(actually FT-817 battery drain is not that bad). > I doubt that the digital modes are not as easy to operate portable as FT-817 paired with touchscreen smartphone. > If the firmware has bugs then it's nice to do the upgrades of course.. > > I read somewhere that it all starts from A as antenna. > O for operator, and last is R as rig. > I guess from those three the rig affects least to how many contacts you make. > > Jani OH9FZU > > --- In [hidden email], "dyarnes1" <w7aqk@...> wrote: >> >> Hi All, >> >> The KX3 won't appeal to everyone, particularly those who highly value the 817's ability to cover 2 and 440. However, even a "stock" KX3 will run circles around an 817 in performance and features. You get true QSK, a better display, firmware upgradeable (which Elecraft does better than anyone), Better DSP, PSK31 and RTTY w/o a computer, much lower battery drain, 8 band equalizer for both receive and transmit, etc. All this in a package that is actually smaller and lighter than the 817, and the KX3 even runs a little more power. >> >> The actual price differential is more like $250 comparing "stock model to stock model", and including the microphone. That's not all that much for the additional performance capability in my view. Admittedly I priced the "kit" version, but putting these together is very, very simple. It's just "assembling", not building. What drives the price up is all the extra goodies that you can't even get for the 817, mainly the ATU and the narrow roofing filters. The ATU option is, in my view, a "must" have considering how well Elecraft ATU's perform. >> >> There seems to be enough "apples and oranges" differential between the two radios to make it difficult for a lot of folks to see the benefit in switching. However, I don't think "value" is really a valid concern. It's more a matter of just what do you need to be happy? Isn't it great to have a choice! >> >> Dave W7AQK >> >> >> >> --- In [hidden email], "wildergeek" <kb8ybs@> wrote: >>> >>> $1,400 for a KX3 equipped the way I'd want it. Think I'll stick with my upgraded 817 for a while longer... >>> >>> Greg >>> KB8YBS >>> >>> --- In [hidden email], "Richard" <f6driver@> wrote: >>>> >>>> I'm very interested in the KX-3 and am on their list. >>>> I think the receiver on my 817 really does need some serious help, like a narrow IF filter and W4RT DSP mod, and.............the point is why sink another $500 into a 10 year old radio instead selling it and use the proceeds towards a KX-3 state of the art SDR QRP portable. >>>> Either way I play it, it's going to cost, so why not end up with the newer technology? >>>> I'm ready to get flamed for saying this here, but still would like to hear any arguments that make sense. >>>> Richard >>>> KE4UN >>>> >>> >> > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > and for a great FAQ ( Frequently Asked Questions ) see http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FT817/database > Some really good technical info at: http://www.ussc.com/~turner/ft817pg.shtml > Please note that your messages and files sent to this group may appear anywhere on the Internet or in print without notice or compensation. > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FT817/ > > <*> Your email settings: > Individual Email | Traditional > > <*> To change settings online go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FT817/join > (Yahoo! ID required) > > <*> To change settings via email: > [hidden email] > [hidden email] > > <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > [hidden email] > > <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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Matt,
The KX3 will have about 30 dB better dynamic range than the IC-7000, even without the roofing filter. I'm not knocking the 7000 -- it's a versatile little rig. It's just a question of how much RX performance you want. Of course the KX3's ergonomics are completely different, too. 73, Wayne N6KR On Dec 29, 2011, at 5:43 PM, Matt Maguire wrote: > Hi Johnny, > > I thought about an FT817, but my reasoning was similar to the points > you listed. In addition, a friend of mine lent me an FT817 to play > with, and to do the least little thing you need to go menu diving. > On the Elecraft gear, most of these common functions seem to be > readily accessible from the front controls. > > As you point out, a used K2 could be a very good deal. The main > problem with a used K2, though, is that you miss out on all the fun > of building it yourself :-) I must admit, earlier in the year I was > thinking about a K2, but was a bit worried about the size for a > portable setup. But then of course the KX3 was announced, which fit > my requirements perfectly. > > I have ordered a KX3 without a roofing filter, so it will be > interesting to see how well it performs with just the DSP filtering. > I do love the flexibility of the DSP filtering on my IC7000. > However, the nice thing about the KX3 is that I have the option to > add a roofing filter later if I find it is needed, whereas in the > IC7000, I don't think adding/narrowing IF filtering before the DSP > is really feasible. > > 73 Matt VK2ACL. > > > On 30/12/2011, at 11:54 AM, Johnny Siu wrote: > >> I once used FT817ND for portable operation but I eventually gave >> it up and replaced it by a K2. My reasons are: >> ... >> 1. I was disappointed by the RX performance of FT817 and K2 is far >> better. FT817 is hot enough to receive everything but I cannot >> select the station I wanted - very poor selectivity indeed; >> 2. Current drain of K2 is as low as 180ma; >> 3. Built-in ATU of K2 (swr 10:1) is convenivent; >> 4. Built-in speech processor of K2 gives much more talk power; >> 5. K2 can deliver more power at 10-15W; >> 6. The V/U operation of FT817 can be covered by H/T >> 7. A full loaded FT817 with filters, OBP processor etc is not that >> cheap >> >> Most of the above rationale also applies to the decision between >> KX3 Vs FT817 though it is not quite an apple to apple comparison. >> Having said that, I still consider FT817 is very value for money >> because its price in VR2 is less than US$600. >> >> With the coming of KX3, I notice many good deals for used K2. If >> you do not too keen on v/u, used K2 could be a good buy. >> >> TNX & 73, >> >> >> Johnny VR2XMC >> >> 從︰ egsise <[hidden email]> >> 收件人︰ [hidden email] >> 傳送日期︰ 2011年12月30日 (週五) 7:40 AM >> 主題︰ [FT817] Re: ELECRAFT >> >> >> >> Ok ok the KX3 looks good on paper, relax it's not an iphone you >> need to defend. >> To be honest it's not the price that matters so much, it's just not >> tested yet. >> So I highly doubt that the battery drain is lower than >> FT-817's(actually FT-817 battery drain is not that bad). >> I doubt that the digital modes are not as easy to operate portable >> as FT-817 paired with touchscreen smartphone. >> If the firmware has bugs then it's nice to do the upgrades of >> course.. >> >> I read somewhere that it all starts from A as antenna. >> O for operator, and last is R as rig. >> I guess from those three the rig affects least to how many contacts >> you make. >> >> Jani OH9FZU >> >> --- In [hidden email], "dyarnes1" <w7aqk@...> wrote: >>> >>> Hi All, >>> >>> The KX3 won't appeal to everyone, particularly those who highly >>> value the 817's ability to cover 2 and 440. However, even a >>> "stock" KX3 will run circles around an 817 in performance and >>> features. You get true QSK, a better display, firmware upgradeable >>> (which Elecraft does better than anyone), Better DSP, PSK31 and >>> RTTY w/o a computer, much lower battery drain, 8 band equalizer >>> for both receive and transmit, etc. All this in a package that is >>> actually smaller and lighter than the 817, and the KX3 even runs a >>> little more power. >>> >>> The actual price differential is more like $250 comparing "stock >>> model to stock model", and including the microphone. That's not >>> all that much for the additional performance capability in my >>> view. Admittedly I priced the "kit" version, but putting these >>> together is very, very simple. It's just "assembling", not >>> building. What drives the price up is all the extra goodies that >>> you can't even get for the 817, mainly the ATU and the narrow >>> roofing filters. The ATU option is, in my view, a "must" have >>> considering how well Elecraft ATU's perform. >>> >>> There seems to be enough "apples and oranges" differential between >>> the two radios to make it difficult for a lot of folks to see the >>> benefit in switching. However, I don't think "value" is really a >>> valid concern. It's more a matter of just what do you need to be >>> happy? Isn't it great to have a choice! >>> >>> Dave W7AQK >>> >>> >>> >>> --- In [hidden email], "wildergeek" <kb8ybs@> wrote: >>>> >>>> $1,400 for a KX3 equipped the way I'd want it. Think I'll stick >>>> with my upgraded 817 for a while longer... >>>> >>>> Greg >>>> KB8YBS >>>> >>>> --- In [hidden email], "Richard" <f6driver@> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I'm very interested in the KX-3 and am on their list. >>>>> I think the receiver on my 817 really does need some serious >>>>> help, like a narrow IF filter and W4RT DSP mod, >>>>> and.............the point is why sink another $500 into a 10 >>>>> year old radio instead selling it and use the proceeds towards a >>>>> KX-3 state of the art SDR QRP portable. >>>>> Either way I play it, it's going to cost, so why not end up with >>>>> the newer technology? >>>>> I'm ready to get flamed for saying this here, but still would >>>>> like to hear any arguments that make sense. >>>>> Richard >>>>> KE4UN >>>>> >>>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------ >> >> and for a great FAQ ( Frequently Asked Questions ) see http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FT817/database >> Some really good technical info at: http://www.ussc.com/~turner/ft817pg.shtml >> Please note that your messages and files sent to this group may >> appear anywhere on the Internet or in print without notice or >> compensation. >> >> Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FT817/ >> >> <*> Your email settings: >> Individual Email | Traditional >> >> <*> To change settings online go to: >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FT817/join >> (Yahoo! ID required) >> >> <*> To change settings via email: >> [hidden email] >> [hidden email] >> >> <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >> [hidden email] >> >> <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: >> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ >> > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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Well, I've had some good fun with the IC7000, but I think I'm going to enjoy the KX3 a whole lot more :-) Performance, ergonomics, portability, convenience -- yes, I'm really looking forward to my first Elecraft experience.
73, Matt VK2ACL On 30/12/2011, at 1:33 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote: > Matt, > > The KX3 will have about 30 dB better dynamic range than the IC-7000, even without the roofing filter. > > I'm not knocking the 7000 -- it's a versatile little rig. It's just a question of how much RX performance you want. Of course the KX3's ergonomics are completely different, too. > > 73, > Wayne > N6KR > > On Dec 29, 2011, at 5:43 PM, Matt Maguire wrote: > >> Hi Johnny, >> >> I thought about an FT817, but my reasoning was similar to the points you listed. In addition, a friend of mine lent me an FT817 to play with, and to do the least little thing you need to go menu diving. On the Elecraft gear, most of these common functions seem to be readily accessible from the front controls. >> >> As you point out, a used K2 could be a very good deal. The main problem with a used K2, though, is that you miss out on all the fun of building it yourself :-) I must admit, earlier in the year I was thinking about a K2, but was a bit worried about the size for a portable setup. But then of course the KX3 was announced, which fit my requirements perfectly. >> >> I have ordered a KX3 without a roofing filter, so it will be interesting to see how well it performs with just the DSP filtering. I do love the flexibility of the DSP filtering on my IC7000. However, the nice thing about the KX3 is that I have the option to add a roofing filter later if I find it is needed, whereas in the IC7000, I don't think adding/narrowing IF filtering before the DSP is really feasible. >> >> 73 Matt VK2ACL. >> >> >> On 30/12/2011, at 11:54 AM, Johnny Siu wrote: >> >>> I once used FT817ND for portable operation but I eventually gave it up and replaced it by a K2. My reasons are: >>> ... >>> 1. I was disappointed by the RX performance of FT817 and K2 is far better. FT817 is hot enough to receive everything but I cannot select the station I wanted - very poor selectivity indeed; >>> 2. Current drain of K2 is as low as 180ma; >>> 3. Built-in ATU of K2 (swr 10:1) is convenivent; >>> 4. Built-in speech processor of K2 gives much more talk power; >>> 5. K2 can deliver more power at 10-15W; >>> 6. The V/U operation of FT817 can be covered by H/T >>> 7. A full loaded FT817 with filters, OBP processor etc is not that cheap >>> >>> Most of the above rationale also applies to the decision between KX3 Vs FT817 though it is not quite an apple to apple comparison. Having said that, I still consider FT817 is very value for money because its price in VR2 is less than US$600. >>> >>> With the coming of KX3, I notice many good deals for used K2. If you do not too keen on v/u, used K2 could be a good buy. >>> >>> TNX & 73, >>> >>> >>> Johnny VR2XMC >>> >>> 從︰ egsise <[hidden email]> >>> 收件人︰ [hidden email] >>> 傳送日期︰ 2011年12月30日 (週五) 7:40 AM >>> 主題︰ [FT817] Re: ELECRAFT >>> >>> >>> >>> Ok ok the KX3 looks good on paper, relax it's not an iphone you need to defend. >>> To be honest it's not the price that matters so much, it's just not tested yet. >>> So I highly doubt that the battery drain is lower than FT-817's(actually FT-817 battery drain is not that bad). >>> I doubt that the digital modes are not as easy to operate portable as FT-817 paired with touchscreen smartphone. >>> If the firmware has bugs then it's nice to do the upgrades of course.. >>> >>> I read somewhere that it all starts from A as antenna. >>> O for operator, and last is R as rig. >>> I guess from those three the rig affects least to how many contacts you make. >>> >>> Jani OH9FZU >>> >>> --- In [hidden email], "dyarnes1" <w7aqk@...> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi All, >>>> >>>> The KX3 won't appeal to everyone, particularly those who highly value the 817's ability to cover 2 and 440. However, even a "stock" KX3 will run circles around an 817 in performance and features. You get true QSK, a better display, firmware upgradeable (which Elecraft does better than anyone), Better DSP, PSK31 and RTTY w/o a computer, much lower battery drain, 8 band equalizer for both receive and transmit, etc. All this in a package that is actually smaller and lighter than the 817, and the KX3 even runs a little more power. >>>> >>>> The actual price differential is more like $250 comparing "stock model to stock model", and including the microphone. That's not all that much for the additional performance capability in my view. Admittedly I priced the "kit" version, but putting these together is very, very simple. It's just "assembling", not building. What drives the price up is all the extra goodies that you can't even get for the 817, mainly the ATU and the narrow roofing filters. The ATU option is, in my view, a "must" have considering how well Elecraft ATU's perform. >>>> >>>> There seems to be enough "apples and oranges" differential between the two radios to make it difficult for a lot of folks to see the benefit in switching. However, I don't think "value" is really a valid concern. It's more a matter of just what do you need to be happy? Isn't it great to have a choice! >>>> >>>> Dave W7AQK >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> --- In [hidden email], "wildergeek" <kb8ybs@> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> $1,400 for a KX3 equipped the way I'd want it. Think I'll stick with my upgraded 817 for a while longer... >>>>> >>>>> Greg >>>>> KB8YBS >>>>> >>>>> --- In [hidden email], "Richard" <f6driver@> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm very interested in the KX-3 and am on their list. >>>>>> I think the receiver on my 817 really does need some serious help, like a narrow IF filter and W4RT DSP mod, and.............the point is why sink another $500 into a 10 year old radio instead selling it and use the proceeds towards a KX-3 state of the art SDR QRP portable. >>>>>> Either way I play it, it's going to cost, so why not end up with the newer technology? >>>>>> I'm ready to get flamed for saying this here, but still would like to hear any arguments that make sense. >>>>>> Richard >>>>>> KE4UN >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------ >>> >>> and for a great FAQ ( Frequently Asked Questions ) see http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FT817/database >>> Some really good technical info at: http://www.ussc.com/~turner/ft817pg.shtml >>> Please note that your messages and files sent to this group may appear anywhere on the Internet or in print without notice or compensation. >>> >>> Yahoo! Groups Links >>> >>> <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: >>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FT817/ >>> >>> <*> Your email settings: >>> Individual Email | Traditional >>> >>> <*> To change settings online go to: >>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FT817/join >>> (Yahoo! ID required) >>> >>> <*> To change settings via email: >>> [hidden email] >>> [hidden email] >>> >>> <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >>> [hidden email] >>> >>> <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: >>> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ >>> >> >> ______________________________________________________________ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:[hidden email] >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Matt Maguire
Matt, the K2 works well in a portable environment. The last few Zuni
Loop QRP Field Days have been mostly K2s, with one K3 this year. 72/73 de Jim - AD6CW On 12/29/2011 5:43 PM, Matt Maguire wrote: > Hi Johnny, > > As you point out, a used K2 could be a very good deal. The main problem with a used K2, though, is that you miss out on all the fun of building it yourself :-) I must admit, earlier in the year I was thinking about a K2, but was a bit worried about the size for a portable setup. But then of course the KX3 was announced, which fit my requirements perfectly. > > 73 Matt VK2ACL. ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Matt Maguire
Wayne wrote:
> The KX3 will have about 30 dB better dynamic range than the IC-7000, > even without the roofing filter. The IC-7000, like almost all Asian-origin HF rigs (including the FT-817) also does NOT allow selection of iambic keying mode! They are all set permanently for mode B. The ICOM display boss at Dayton 2011 was very dismissive when I asked why a rig with as many selection options as the IC-7000 does not permit a function as basic as iambic mode selection. (At least he knew what "iambic mode" meant. The others there thought I was talking about whether dots or dashes were sent when a left or right key closure was made!) He blamed it on "engineering" (!?) and lamely, disinterestedly, claimed that he couldn't control what "they" came up with. Well, there'll never be any purchases at KK5F of HF rigs that are so poorly designed in these small details that the larger ones are suspect as well. HF rig reviews in QST *now* state what iambic modes the keyer in a review rig supports. Some time ago I asked for that information for QST reviews, and happily the editor for that department agreed. Elecraft rigs have always supported iambic mode selection. Mike / KK5F ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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Mike Morrow wrote:
> The IC-7000, like almost all Asian-origin HF rigs (including the > FT-817) > also does NOT allow selection of iambic keying mode! They are all set > permanently for mode B. Elecraft rigs give you modes "A" and "B", which are both iambic but with different element-insert timing. > The ICOM display boss at Dayton 2011 was very dismissive when I > asked why > a rig with as many selection options as the IC-7000 does not permit a > function as basic as iambic mode selection. (At least he knew what > "iambic > mode" meant. The others there thought I was talking about whether > dots > or dashes were sent when a left or right key closure was made!) He > blamed > it on "engineering" (!?) and lamely, disinterestedly, claimed that > he couldn't > control what "they" came up with. Well, there'll never be any > purchases > at KK5F of HF rigs that are so poorly designed in these small > details that > the larger ones are suspect as well. Show 'em who's boss :) Wayne N6KR ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
KX3 iambic mode selection (sideswiper)
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In reply to this post by Mike Morrow-3
Wayne,
Would it be "possible/easy/already-done" to add SideSwiper mode for the "built-in paddle/iambic" mode choices? 73/Phillip/N8AYE -. ---.. .- -.-- . ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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