Re: Feedline loss w/wo tuner (was Sherwood's receiver performance table updated)
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Re: Feedline loss w/wo tuner (was Sherwood's receiver performance table updated)
 
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Title changed. Hopefully I’ll get this in before Eric puts the ax down :^)
Your example is a perfect case: 120’ of LMR400 has 0.6 dB loss @ 14 MHz. With a 5:1 SWR the additional loss is 0.75 dB. Which is roughly the difference between 100 watts and 120 watts. Noticeable on the air? I doubt it. Somewhere in the past hams have become obsessed with SWR. With a 2:1 SWR on a feedline with a matched loss of 3.0 dB (which is a bit extreme) there is an additional 0.35 dB of loss. It’s just not big enough to worry about. Of course now that we all have solid state finals 2:1 can be a problem. But a tuner in the shack is a completely reasonable and efficient way to deal with it. Now back to your regularly scheduled touch screen/IC7300 discussion… Ken K6MR From: James Rodenkirch<mailto:[hidden email]> Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2016 11:16 To: Ken K6MR<mailto:[hidden email]>; [hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Sherwood's receiver performance table updated Ken - I thought my "note"/reply was focused on long runs with low SWR (as in, for instance, a 120' run of LMR-400 with an auto tuner at the base of the vertical or whatever antenna)...... Let's leave radial/ground shield and counterpoise discussion for another time....smiling!! 71.5/72 Jimm R. ________________________________ From: Ken K6MR <[hidden email]> Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2016 12:10 PM To: James Rodenkirch; [hidden email] Subject: RE: [Elecraft] Sherwood's receiver performance table updated No problem. Yes, open wire line has its own problems. I was reacting to your note regarding using short runs of coax operated at high SWR. There is nothing inherently inefficient about doing so. Like any design it’s easy to run the numbers to determine what the actual losses are. Many times they are just too small to worry about. Especially in the case of verticals, the ground losses will be far higher unless you invest in an excellent radial/ground shield underneath it. The tuner can’t help that. Ken K6MR From: James Rodenkirch<mailto:[hidden email]> Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2016 11:01 To: Ken K6MR<mailto:[hidden email]>; [hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Sherwood's receiver performance table updated Did not mean to sound argumentative, Ken.....apologize if it came out that way....I am "involved" in this discussion becuz' of Don's initial post about new hams not understanding the advantageous aspects of open wire feed line.... ________________________________ From: James Rodenkirch Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2016 10:38 AM To: Ken K6MR; [hidden email] Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Sherwood's receiver performance table updated It is not "the principle behind the use of open wire feed line," Ken IF, I place an antenna auto tuner at the base of, for instance, a vertical and feed the tuner with low loss coax.... I understand the use of open wire feed line and an ATU prior to attaching to the xmtr....BUT...see above - works as well, if not better 'cuz I don't have to worry about the open wire feed line running too close to metal objects... ________________________________ From: Ken K6MR <[hidden email]> Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2016 9:36 AM To: Jim Rodenkirch; [hidden email] Subject: RE: [Elecraft] Sherwood's receiver performance table updated “P.S. I don't subscribe to the notion that quality coax runs of < 150 feet make it "ok" to have the ATU in the shack while operating an antenna on multiple bands....what technical evidence of that posit do you have to share????” Jim: Google “transmission line bounce diagram”. This is a simple concept easily proven by mathematics. On a practical level, this is the concept behind the use of open wire feed lines. It’s been done for decades. The type of feed line does not change the theory. Ken K6MR From: Jim Rodenkirch<mailto:[hidden email]> Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2016 06:21 To: [hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Sherwood's receiver performance table updated "It all depends" is/was the premise for my reply, Don. If new and old hams don't understand the potential problems with long runs of coax to/from an antenna they want to operate on multiple bands and an ATU in the shack they will be surprised at how inefficient their system is. P.S. I don't subscribe to the notion that quality coax runs of < 150 feet make it "ok" to have the ATU in the shack while operating an antenna on multiple bands....what technical evidence of that posit do you have to share???? Note 1: I had a 43' vertical with top loading wires in a NORD-style config with my external ATU at the base of the vertical and 120' of coax back to the shack ---- never saw a VSWR delta of more than .2 between what was "seen" at the input to the tuner and what was "seen" at the xmtr while operating on 160 through 20 meters. -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Sherwood-s-receiver-performance-table-updated-tp7616652p7616802.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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True, the reasons for an ATU are not all associated with feedline loss.
One thing that is often overlooked in these discussions is that older tube type transmitters had an adjustable output network which had a sizable range for matching antennas. You would 'dip the plate' and adjust the 'loading' until you could feed the antenna efficiently. With that, one did not have to pay much attention to SWR or the feedpoint impedance. The PA output network did the job of matching the plate load resistance to whatever was connected to the network output (the antenna). Today's transmitters need to see a low SWR because they were designed to operate into a 50 ohm load. The adjustable elements of the transmitter output have been moved from the transmitter into the ATU because there is nothing to adjust in the transmitter other than the band and VFO. If all your antennas present a 50 ohm load on each band - and across the span of those bands, no ATU is needed at all, but that requires many tuned antennas. Not everyone has that luxury. 73, Don W3FPR On 4/27/2016 2:52 PM, Ken K6MR wrote: > Somewhere in the past hams have become obsessed with SWR. With a 2:1 SWR on a feedline with a matched loss of 3.0 dB (which is a bit extreme) there is an additional 0.35 dB of loss. It’s just not big enough to worry about. > > Of course now that we all have solid state finals 2:1 can be a problem. But a tuner in the shack is a completely reasonable and efficient way to deal with it. > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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“One thing that is often overlooked in these discussions is that older
tube type transmitters had an adjustable output network which had a sizable range for matching antennas.” I remember my DX-20: that thing could load anything! But I’m not going back. Being able to change bands instantly and completely hands free is a big advantage. I continue to make sacrifices to the Amplifier Gods asking for the KPA-1500 :^) Ken K6MR From: Don Wilhelm<mailto:[hidden email]> Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2016 12:23 To: [hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Feedline loss w/wo tuner True, the reasons for an ATU are not all associated with feedline loss. One thing that is often overlooked in these discussions is that older tube type transmitters had an adjustable output network which had a sizable range for matching antennas. You would 'dip the plate' and adjust the 'loading' until you could feed the antenna efficiently. With that, one did not have to pay much attention to SWR or the feedpoint impedance. The PA output network did the job of matching the plate load resistance to whatever was connected to the network output (the antenna). Today's transmitters need to see a low SWR because they were designed to operate into a 50 ohm load. The adjustable elements of the transmitter output have been moved from the transmitter into the ATU because there is nothing to adjust in the transmitter other than the band and VFO. If all your antennas present a 50 ohm load on each band - and across the span of those bands, no ATU is needed at all, but that requires many tuned antennas. Not everyone has that luxury. 73, Don W3FPR On 4/27/2016 2:52 PM, Ken K6MR wrote: > Somewhere in the past hams have become obsessed with SWR. With a 2:1 SWR on a feedline with a matched loss of 3.0 dB (which is a bit extreme) there is an additional 0.35 dB of loss. It’s just not big enough to worry about. > > Of course now that we all have solid state finals 2:1 can be a problem. But a tuner in the shack is a completely reasonable and efficient way to deal with it. > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
Re: Feedline loss w/wo tuner
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In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm
While this not about feedline loss. But, Don brings up a point about antennas in general that cover all bands with a ~50 match. I have only tried two. The discone and the log periodic for 20 Meters and up. The discone wins on footprint and the log winds on gain/directivity. But is much bigger. Along came SteppIR.
Mel, K6KBE From: Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> To: [hidden email] Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2016 12:21 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Feedline loss w/wo tuner True, the reasons for an ATU are not all associated with feedline loss. One thing that is often overlooked in these discussions is that older tube type transmitters had an adjustable output network which had a sizable range for matching antennas. You would 'dip the plate' and adjust the 'loading' until you could feed the antenna efficiently. With that, one did not have to pay much attention to SWR or the feedpoint impedance. The PA output network did the job of matching the plate load resistance to whatever was connected to the network output (the antenna). Today's transmitters need to see a low SWR because they were designed to operate into a 50 ohm load. The adjustable elements of the transmitter output have been moved from the transmitter into the ATU because there is nothing to adjust in the transmitter other than the band and VFO. If all your antennas present a 50 ohm load on each band - and across the span of those bands, no ATU is needed at all, but that requires many tuned antennas. Not everyone has that luxury. 73, Don W3FPR On 4/27/2016 2:52 PM, Ken K6MR wrote: > Somewhere in the past hams have become obsessed with SWR. With a 2:1 SWR on a feedline with a matched loss of 3.0 dB (which is a bit extreme) there is an additional 0.35 dB of loss. It’s just not big enough to worry about. > > Of course now that we all have solid state finals 2:1 can be a problem. But a tuner in the shack is a completely reasonable and efficient way to deal with it. > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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I don't own one, but I've helped put one up for a fellow club member. Based on
his. and other members' experiences, if you like failures out of the box, and as an ongoing proposition, go for it. On 4/27/2016 1:08 PM, Mel Farrer via Elecraft wrote: > Along came SteppIR. ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm
Indeed! I don't remember when the acronym "SWR" crept into the Amateur
lexicon, or we became concerned about it, but I'm pretty sure I was rapidly approaching "OT Status" when it happened. Early on, we link coupled to the final tank inductor and any reactance in the feedline just changed the resonant point which was adjustable of course. With the advent of the ubiquitous pi-network, we were just matching the impedance presented by the feedline to the plate impedance of the PA's [a couple of K ohms or so]. There is probably no single thing in a ham station more misunderstood [or mis-named] than "The Antenna Tuner." 73, Fred K6DGW Sparks NV Washoe County DM09dn On 4/27/2016 12:21 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote: > One thing that is often overlooked in these discussions is that older > tube type transmitters had an adjustable output network which had a > sizable range for matching antennas. You would 'dip the plate' and > adjust the 'loading' until you could feed the antenna efficiently. With > that, one did not have to pay much attention to SWR or the feedpoint > impedance. The PA output network did the job of matching the plate load > resistance to whatever was connected to the network output (the antenna). ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
Re: Feedline loss w/wo tuner
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In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm
I dunno, Mine (3 el Steppir) has been up since 2003 with no trouble whatsoever. Less trouble than I've had with the Butternut vert I have for the lower bands.
Gil, W1RG -------------------------------------------- On Wed, 4/27/16, Wes <[hidden email]> wrote: Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Feedline loss w/wo tuner To: [hidden email] Date: Wednesday, April 27, 2016, 4:23 PM I don't own one, but I've helped put one up for a fellow club member. Based on his. and other members' experiences, if you like failures out of the box, and as an ongoing proposition, go for it. On 4/27/2016 1:08 PM, Mel Farrer via Elecraft wrote: > Along came SteppIR. ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
Re: Feedline loss w/wo tuner
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I've had my 4 El Steppir (20-10, plus 2 more fixed el for 6 m) up for over ten
years 1 mile from the Ocean. Zero problems. Great antenna. Eric /elecraft.com/ On 4/27/2016 2:23 PM, Richard gillingham wrote: > I dunno, Mine (3 el Steppir) has been up since 2003 with no trouble whatsoever. Less trouble than I've had with the Butternut vert I have for the lower bands. > > Gil, W1RG > -------------------------------------------- > On Wed, 4/27/16, Wes <[hidden email]> wrote: > > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Feedline loss w/wo tuner > To: [hidden email] > Date: Wednesday, April 27, 2016, 4:23 PM > > I don't own one, but > I've helped put one up for a fellow club member. Based > on > his. and other members' experiences, > if you like failures out of the box, and as > an ongoing proposition, go for it. > > On 4/27/2016 1:08 PM, Mel Farrer via Elecraft > wrote: > > Along came SteppIR. > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to [hidden email] > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to [hidden email] ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
Re: Feedline loss w/wo tuner (was Sherwood's receiver performance table updated)
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In reply to this post by k6mrmagnet
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In reply to this post by Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ
On Wed,4/27/2016 2:31 PM, Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft wrote:
> I've had my 4 El Steppir (20-10, plus 2 more fixed el for 6 m) up for > over ten years 1 mile from the Ocean. Zero problems. My 3-el (no trombones) has been up on a 120 ft tower about 12 miles N of Eric's QTH for about 7 years, also with no problems I can blame on the antenna (but several I can blame on myself). :) I find the antenna quite effective on all bands, 20-6M. 73, Jim K9YC ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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Extrapolating from these two data points, it appears that Steppir reliability is inversely proportional to the distance from Eric's QTH.
Wayne On Apr 27, 2016, at 3:37 PM, Jim Brown <[hidden email]> wrote: > On Wed,4/27/2016 2:31 PM, Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft wrote: >> I've had my 4 El Steppir (20-10, plus 2 more fixed el for 6 m) up for over ten years 1 mile from the Ocean. Zero problems. > > My 3-el (no trombones) has been up on a 120 ft tower about 12 miles N of Eric's QTH for about 7 years, also with no problems I can blame on the antenna (but several I can blame on myself). :) I find the antenna quite effective on all bands, 20-6M. > > 73, Jim K9YC ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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I knew I was right not to get one.
Thanks Wayne.:-) On 4/27/2016 5:41 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote: > Extrapolating from these two data points, it appears that Steppir reliability is inversely proportional to the distance from Eric's QTH. > > Wayne > > > On Apr 27, 2016, at 3:37 PM, Jim Brown <[hidden email]> wrote: > >> On Wed,4/27/2016 2:31 PM, Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft wrote: >>> I've had my 4 El Steppir (20-10, plus 2 more fixed el for 6 m) up for over ten years 1 mile from the Ocean. Zero problems. >> My 3-el (no trombones) has been up on a 120 ft tower about 12 miles N of Eric's QTH for about 7 years, also with no problems I can blame on the antenna (but several I can blame on myself). :) I find the antenna quite effective on all bands, 20-6M. >> >> 73, Jim K9YC > > > > -- R. Kevin Stover AC0H ARRL FISTS #11993 SKCC #215 NAQCC #3441 --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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I'm building a KX1 and finished Part 1. I encountered problems during
testing. First I noticed when scrolling through the MENU items some some segments of the LED display don't light on some menu item names. However the same segment might light on another menu item. Now it's started going dark during testing and not coming back on after button clicks or encoder turns. When it does this the 5v and 6v lines still have correct voltages and nothing feels hot to the touch. The only way to get it to come back is to turn it off and wait a while. I've carefully checked parts placement and solder joints and can find no problems, and it passes all the part 1 voltage tests. What should I do? Thanks, --Frank Cox ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
SteppIR Experiences - was Re: Feedline loss w/wo tuner
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In reply to this post by Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ
Since thinking about tuned for ever frequency with the SteppIR,
I've developed a bit of SteppIR lust. Please let me know off list if you have had problems with them. I'll summarize any significant response for the list since this is kind of off topic. I won't actually do anything until my tower application to the Los Gatos (CA) planning department goes through. Any advice about that will also be appreciated. 73 Bill AE6JV On 4/27/16 at 2:31 PM, [hidden email] (Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft) wrote: >I've had my 4 El Steppir (20-10, plus 2 more fixed el for 6 m) >up for over ten years 1 mile from the Ocean. Zero problems. > >Great antenna. > >Eric >/elecraft.com/ > >On 4/27/2016 2:23 PM, Richard gillingham wrote: >>I dunno, Mine (3 el Steppir) has been up since 2003 with no trouble whatsoever. Less trouble than >I've had with the Butternut vert I have for the lower bands. >> >>Gil, W1RG ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Bill Frantz | Since the IBM Selectric, keyboards have gotten 408-356-8506 | steadily worse. Now we have touchscreen keyboards. www.pwpconsult.com | Can we make something even worse? ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by Frank Cox
Frank,
That "smells" like a bad solder connection somewhere. I would go back over the soldering with an iron temperature of 750 degF or hotter. Make certain that the solder flows out completely onto both the component lead and the solder pad - add a bit of solder as you go (you should actually be adding flux). A solder dwell time with a sufficiently hot iron should happen in 3 to 4 seconds. If the solder does not flow out in that time, the iron is too cold. If it happens in 1 second or less, the iron is too hot. Look at you solder connection. With thru-hole components, you should see the solder wick through the thru-hole connections on the board. A sage builder said that good solder connections should look like a mountain, but not like a volcano. Your solder connections should have a nice fillet around the component lead, and it should be concave. If the solder connections look more like balls, then sufficient heat has not been applied and will result in a faulty connection. 73, Don W3FPR On 4/27/2016 8:14 PM, frank wrote: > I'm building a KX1 and finished Part 1. I encountered problems during > testing. > > First I noticed when scrolling through the MENU items some some > segments of the LED display don't light on some menu item names. > However the same segment might light on another menu item. > > Now it's started going dark during testing and not coming back on > after button clicks or encoder turns. When it does this the 5v and 6v > lines still have correct voltages and nothing feels hot to the touch. > The only way to get it to come back is to turn it off and wait a while. > > I've carefully checked parts placement and solder joints and can find > no problems, and it passes all the part 1 voltage tests. > > What should I do? > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm
Well my guess that most hams have the tuner at the radio (or inside
the radio). I was trying to minimize my cost when I bought my K3/10 (only $2900 with accessories), so I did not buy the 100w amp or atu. I already had a used MFJ mobile tuner (good to 200w) so that sufficed. The MFJ finally died (not worth fixing) so I bought a used Drake MN2000 manual tuner. It handled my CCI 300w amp (and gave a handy RF meter to show output). It is in the shack (arms not long enough to reach the knobs on top of my tower at 50-feet). I only have two operating HF antenna: 80-40m fan inverted-V and Hygain TH3mk4 triband yagi. 80m matches where I operate (75m phone) and 40m needs a bit of tuner with 3:1 SWR. The old tribander needs a bit on all bands. Tuner only use is to make the ssa happy with providing a 50-ohm load. Feedlines are about 80-foot. I have one more wire antenna which is used on 600m: 43x122 foot inverted-L. I has a huge base coil for matching. SWR bw is about 5-KHz (495-500 KHz) and efficiency is < 1%. But my 4w ERP has been received in Buffalo, NY; not too shabby. Feedline SWR runs about 1.5 for the 100w amp. My first transmitter was the DX35 with 6146 and pi-net output tank. Peak n Dip could load anything. SWR? whas dat? I did not have a power meter. FCC regs told me I could run 75w dc input. 73, Ed - KL7UW http://www.kl7uw.com "Kits made by KL7UW" Dubus Mag business: [hidden email] ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
Re: Feedline loss w/wo tuner
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In reply to this post by Richard gillingham-2
Gil, et All
Have to agree with you. Raised my DB-18 (3 el) on 10/18/2010. Built it myself, but took my time. Club members helped me get it up. Been working fine ever since, with a K3, KPA500, and P3. Course, it's well washed down time to time with our Western Washington rain. I don't use a tuner, other than the one in the K3, when the amp is off. 73, Rick, W7LKG -----Original Message----- From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Richard gillingham Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2016 14:23 To: [hidden email]; Wes Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Feedline loss w/wo tuner I dunno, Mine (3 el Steppir) has been up since 2003 with no trouble whatsoever. Less trouble than I've had with the Butternut vert I have for the lower bands. Gil, W1RG -------------------------------------------- On Wed, 4/27/16, Wes <[hidden email]> wrote: Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Feedline loss w/wo tuner To: [hidden email] Date: Wednesday, April 27, 2016, 4:23 PM I don't own one, but I've helped put one up for a fellow club member. Based on his. and other members' experiences, if you like failures out of the box, and as an ongoing proposition, go for it. On 4/27/2016 1:08 PM, Mel Farrer via Elecraft wrote: > Along came SteppIR. ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm
Thanks Don,
I'm a fairly experienced builder so I've seen problems like bad solder joints cause all kinds of strange symptoms. More often than not it will end up being something simple like that. I'm still looking and I haven't ruled anything out. Meanwhile, it looks like I dropped my first post in the middle of another thread. My apologies. I'll bow out here and start my own topic. 73 KK6WUU On 4/27/2016 5:46 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote: > Frank, > > That "smells" like a bad solder connection somewhere. > ... > > 73, > Don W3FPR > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10
SteppIR's reputation is still haunted by reviews from its early days
(the first eHam review was in 2001) but the SteppIR antenna you would buy today is not the same as it was back then. SteppIR have made several improvements over the years, including new and stronger moldings for the element/motors, stronger and better quality fiberglass tubes, and the new SDA100 controller. A few years ago, a kind friend lent me his early model 3-element to try over winter and it worked out fine. Based on that good experience I bought a new 3-element for myself, and that too has proved reliable. But when I unpacked the new antenna, the improvements over the earlier model were clear to see. Today's versions of the original 20-10m yagis with their simple, straight 17+17ft elements can now be considered a mature technology. The later models featuring longer elements and/or trombone elements are demanding more from the original SteppIR design concept, but I have no experience of those. Every yagi has its advantages and also its drawbacks, so your choice will depend on what's important for you at your particular QTH. The 3-element has been a good solution for this one-tower station because it gives good performance (for its size) on five HF bands, yet with only a little more wind loading than a 3-element 20m monobander. With improved modifications for 6m [1] the same antenna has worked over 100 countries on that band also. There are still improvements that SteppIR could make (a weatherproof junction box should come as standard, not a $185 extra, and SteppIR's documentation is perennially awful) but the SteppIR 3-element is a very serious contender for people with limited wind loading and mast space. [1] www.ifwtech.co.uk/g3sek/vhfdx/gm3sek-steppir-6m.pdf 73 from Ian GM3SEK >-----Original Message----- >From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of >Jim Brown >Sent: 27 April 2016 23:38 >To: [hidden email] >Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Feedline loss w/wo tuner > >On Wed,4/27/2016 2:31 PM, Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft wrote: >> I've had my 4 El Steppir (20-10, plus 2 more fixed el for 6 m) up for >> over ten years 1 mile from the Ocean. Zero problems. > >My 3-el (no trombones) has been up on a 120 ft tower about 12 miles N >Eric's QTH for about 7 years, also with no problems I can blame on the >antenna (but several I can blame on myself). :) I find the antenna quite >effective on all bands, 20-6M. > >73, Jim K9YC >______________________________________________________________ >Elecraft mailing list >Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >Post: mailto:[hidden email] > >This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >Message delivered to [hidden email] ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm
I've been looking at the Steppir to replace my very old
TH3mk4. Actually I have been looking a several tower changes: replace my 50-foot Rohn-25g with 45g* (if a Hazer for 45g can be had); add a section to the other 25g tower and move the Hazer-4 to it (has my HF yagi + 222 & 432 yagis); and add two sections 45g* to the 6m-eme tower. But I digress: The 4-element Steppir would replace two antennas and eliminate using a tuner 20m-6m. But my concern is how well they operate under cold wx and icy-snow conditions (which is not uncommon in AK). Maint. would be fairly convenient with Hazer lift to lower to roof-top level (tower is wall-mounted on end of house so hazer would drop to about 18-feet above ground). Probably wishful thinking considering the cost of all these ideas (need wife approval). But as I get older more HF operation is likely: mostly like chatting and a little light Dxing. EME takes my serious efforts <smile> 73, Ed - KL7UW *Local ham has 400-foot of 45g which very unusual for up here From: Jim Brown <[hidden email]> To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Feedline loss w/wo tuner Message-ID: <[hidden email]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed On Wed,4/27/2016 2:31 PM, Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft wrote: > I've had my 4 El Steppir (20-10, plus 2 more fixed el for 6 m) up for > over ten years 1 mile from the Ocean. Zero problems. My 3-el (no trombones) has been up on a 120 ft tower about 12 miles N of Eric's QTH for about 7 years, also with no problems I can blame on the antenna (but several I can blame on myself). :) I find the antenna quite effective on all bands, 20-6M. 73, Jim K9YC 73, Ed - KL7UW http://www.kl7uw.com "Kits made by KL7UW" Dubus Mag business: [hidden email] ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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