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Re: Help me choose my first HF rig

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Dan Baker

Re: Help me choose my first HF rig

I will just add a little as so not repeat anyone else. An integrated pan
adapter into the face of the radio is much better than an external unit.
You see the whole picture at once. An external pan adapter is distracting.
Customer service is valuable to me. I define that as Eric and Wayne showing
up to ham events and being able to speak with them. They work us on the
air. They read the forums and participate. I have seen them take our
suggestions and implement them. Once I mentioned that the opposite ssb
suppression on the KX3 was an issue. Some on the forum down played it.
Wayne contacted me and said he understood and corrected it in a firmware
update. They build products they like to use. That makes products we like
to use.

Best Regards, Dan KM6CQ
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Jim Brown-10

Re: Help me choose my first HF rig

On Wed,4/12/2017 7:32 PM, Dan Baker wrote:
> An integrated pan
> adapter into the face of the radio is much better than an external unit.
> You see the whole picture at once. An external pan adapter is distracting.

Different strokes for different folks. I'm quite happy with the P3 amd
P3/SVGA. I really like the flexibility of layout on my operating desk
that having the P3 in a separate unit that I can set alongside the radio
or on top of it. For my desk, it works best sitting on the left side of
the top of the K3. The SVGA is above the radio on a special mount that I
found online.

73, Jim K9YC

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Phil Hystad-3

Re: Help me choose my first HF rig

I agree with Jim about the P3 being separate. I have had integrated pan adapters before and I even have one now on my backup rig (IC-7300) and the battle for space is too much I think. Separate allows the dedication of display space which is nice for a panadapter.

However, a KX2 or KX3 with a modified display option for a panadapter would be nice if it could be done well. Of course, it would not be color coded like the P3 or PX3 but it would be useful for spotting signals on the band. My Icom 706 had a kind of very limited scan panadapter and its major failing was the visual display interface was not done well. My operating style with KX2 is very different than my home station K-Line.

Maybe something on the lines of a signal spotter. Of course, with my KX2 (and also with my former KX3) I am CW only and this feature would be nice to have. Yes, the KX3 has the PX3 but carrying along even that extra piece of equipment out into the field for portable ops is not something I would do. I used just my KX3 (now KX2), LiPO3 battery, and antenna (which could be anything or my Budipole).

73, phil, K7PEH

> On Apr 13, 2017, at 8:23 AM, Jim Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On Wed,4/12/2017 7:32 PM, Dan Baker wrote:
>> An integrated pan
>> adapter into the face of the radio is much better than an external unit.
>> You see the whole picture at once. An external pan adapter is distracting.
>
> Different strokes for different folks. I'm quite happy with the P3 amd P3/SVGA. I really like the flexibility of layout on my operating desk that having the P3 in a separate unit that I can set alongside the radio or on top of it. For my desk, it works best sitting on the left side of the top of the K3. The SVGA is above the radio on a special mount that I found online.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
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Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT-2

Re: Help me choose my first HF rig

In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10

Missed the original post, but if this is a "first" radio, well, I've
noticed that we all seem to buy something, use it a while, learn, our
interests change, we trade for something different.

That first choice depends a bit on what the OP wants to do (100w is
probably important) and it's good to get something expandable, but...

Perfect is the enemy of good enough, and a solid used K3 is going to be
better than "good enough."

73 -- Lynn

On 4/13/2017 8:58 AM, Walter Underwood wrote:
> Did the original poster (N7TGC) ever say he wanted to go portable? If he’s looking for a desktop rig, I’d start with one of the used K3 rigs that we see for sale on this list.
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Michael Walker

Re: Help me choose my first HF rig

I would only buy an HF Rig from Flex or Elecraft for the same reason.

Customer support for past or future functionality. Both talk directly to active hams. They listen and make changes. Quickly.

Mike va3mw

> On Apr 13, 2017, at 9:30 AM, Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Missed the original post, but if this is a "first" radio, well, I've noticed that we all seem to buy something, use it a while, learn, our interests change, we trade for something different.
>
> That first choice depends a bit on what the OP wants to do (100w is probably important) and it's good to get something expandable, but...
>
> Perfect is the enemy of good enough, and a solid used K3 is going to be better than "good enough."
>
> 73 -- Lynn
>
>> On 4/13/2017 8:58 AM, Walter Underwood wrote:
>> Did the original poster (N7TGC) ever say he wanted to go portable? If he’s looking for a desktop rig, I’d start with one of the used K3 rigs that we see for sale on this list.
> ______________________________________________________________
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Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT-2

Re: Help me choose my first HF rig

Actually, I'd want to know something about the potential user, since my
impression of Flex is that they're a little complicated -- making the
learning curve a bit complex.

Since this is the Elecraft list, and we see deals on solid, used K3's,
that's a good recommendation.

But if we're really talking "first radio" then any good clean
semi-recent HF rig would do nicely.

The K3 is more radio than the typical "entry level" rig from KenYaeIco,
and one of those would be good enough.

A K3S would be the perfect second radio (until the K4 is out).

73 -- Lynn

On 4/13/2017 11:04 AM, Mike va3mw wrote:

> I would only buy an HF Rig from Flex or Elecraft for the same reason.
>
> Customer support for past or future functionality. Both talk directly to active hams. They listen and make changes. Quickly.
>
>
>
> Mike va3mw
>
>> On Apr 13, 2017, at 9:30 AM, Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Missed the original post, but if this is a "first" radio, well, I've noticed that we all seem to buy something, use it a while, learn, our interests change, we trade for something different.
>>
>> That first choice depends a bit on what the OP wants to do (100w is probably important) and it's good to get something expandable, but...
>>
>> Perfect is the enemy of good enough, and a solid used K3 is going to be better than "good enough."
>>
>> 73 -- Lynn
>>
>>> On 4/13/2017 8:58 AM, Walter Underwood wrote:
>>> Did the original poster (N7TGC) ever say he wanted to go portable? If he’s looking for a desktop rig, I’d start with one of the used K3 rigs that we see for sale on this list.
>> ______________________________________________________________
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>

Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT-2

Re: Help me choose my first HF rig

... and this list is a tremendous resource!

On 4/13/2017 12:31 PM, Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT wrote:

> Actually, I'd want to know something about the potential user, since my
> impression of Flex is that they're a little complicated -- making the
> learning curve a bit complex.
>
> Since this is the Elecraft list, and we see deals on solid, used K3's,
> that's a good recommendation.
>
> But if we're really talking "first radio" then any good clean
> semi-recent HF rig would do nicely.
>
> The K3 is more radio than the typical "entry level" rig from KenYaeIco,
> and one of those would be good enough.
>
> A K3S would be the perfect second radio (until the K4 is out).
>
> 73 -- Lynn
>
> On 4/13/2017 11:04 AM, Mike va3mw wrote:
>> I would only buy an HF Rig from Flex or Elecraft for the same reason.
>>
>> Customer support for past or future functionality. Both talk directly
>> to active hams. They listen and make changes. Quickly.

EricJ-2

Re: Help me choose my first HF rig

In reply to this post by Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT-2

Best advice so far, Lynn. To the OP: Get something, then GET ON THE AIR.
Nobody learns from reading specs and opinions. It isn't the way to find
your first rig, and probably wasn't the way you picked your first
girlfriend. Play the field. The learning starts when you take the
plunge. You'll know what you want out of the next rig.

Good used rigs aren't expensive, and if you buy wisely, you can get most
if not all your money back for the next rig.

Eric

KE6US

On 4/13/2017 12:31 PM, Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT wrote:
>
>
> But if we're really talking "first radio" then any good clean
> semi-recent HF rig would do nicely.

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George Thornton

Re: Help me choose my first HF rig

My experience was different.

My first HF radio was one of those that had all the features including VHF/UHF. I thought it was a good buy at under $2000 because it was so versatile. I am not naming radio names.

The problem is the receiver on that rig was absolutely horrible. As a new HF operator in an urban location, I already had a handicap because I did not have a top quality antenna. End result was the HF operation on that rig proved mostly useless. I ended up selling the rig after about two years, complete waste of money.

I would say that, looking at Sherwood Engineering test data, any of those rigs in the first 10-20 is going to perform more than adequately for casual use.

New HAMS often waste a lot of money on purchases they later regret.

I have never been dissatisfied with any Elecraft purchase.

From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Eric J
Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2017 2:26 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Help me choose my first HF rig

Best advice so far, Lynn. To the OP: Get something, then GET ON THE AIR.
Nobody learns from reading specs and opinions. It isn't the way to find
your first rig, and probably wasn't the way you picked your first
girlfriend. Play the field. The learning starts when you take the
plunge. You'll know what you want out of the next rig.

Good used rigs aren't expensive, and if you buy wisely, you can get most
if not all your money back for the next rig.

Eric

KE6US

On 4/13/2017 12:31 PM, Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT wrote:
>
>
> But if we're really talking "first radio" then any good clean
> semi-recent HF rig would do nicely.

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Phil Wheeler-2

Re: Help me choose my first HF rig

Re "I am not naming radio names.": Ah, come on
George -- give us some hints so we can guess :-)

Phil W7OX

On 4/13/17 3:43 PM, George Thornton wrote:

> My experience was different.
>
> My first HF radio was one of those that had all the features including VHF/UHF. I thought it was a good buy at under $2000 because it was so versatile. I am not naming radio names.
>
> The problem is the receiver on that rig was absolutely horrible. As a new HF operator in an urban location, I already had a handicap because I did not have a top quality antenna. End result was the HF operation on that rig proved mostly useless. I ended up selling the rig after about two years, complete waste of money.
>
> I would say that, looking at Sherwood Engineering test data, any of those rigs in the first 10-20 is going to perform more than adequately for casual use.
>
> New HAMS often waste a lot of money on purchases they later regret.
>
> I have never been dissatisfied with any Elecraft purchase.
>
> From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Eric J
> Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2017 2:26 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Help me choose my first HF rig
>
> Best advice so far, Lynn. To the OP: Get something, then GET ON THE AIR.
> Nobody learns from reading specs and opinions. It isn't the way to find
> your first rig, and probably wasn't the way you picked your first
> girlfriend. Play the field. The learning starts when you take the
> plunge. You'll know what you want out of the next rig.
>
> Good used rigs aren't expensive, and if you buy wisely, you can get most
> if not all your money back for the next rig.
>
> Eric
>
> KE6US
>
>
>
> On 4/13/2017 12:31 PM, Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT wrote:
>>
>> But if we're really talking "first radio" then any good clean
>> semi-recent HF rig would do nicely.
>
>

Clay Autery

Re: Help me choose my first HF rig

In reply to this post by George Thornton

Not for 1 single solitary second have I been sorry for buying a K3S/P3
as my first rig... I will never let it go.

Buy the best you can find, and buy once.

______________________
Clay Autery, KY5G
MONTAC Enterprises
(318) 518-1389

On 4/13/2017 5:43 PM, George Thornton wrote:
> I have never been dissatisfied with any Elecraft purchase.

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Kevin Cozens-2

Re: Help me choose my first HF rig

In reply to this post by EricJ-2

On 2017-04-13 05:26 PM, Eric J wrote:
> Best advice so far, Lynn. To the OP: Get something, then GET ON THE AIR.
[snip]
> You'll know what you want out of the next rig.
>
> Good used rigs aren't expensive, and if you buy wisely, you can get most
> if not all your money back for the next rig.

I missed the original posting. Did the person who is looking for a rig say
anything about their budget? The K3 may be a very good radio but I wouldn't
be inclined to reccommend a multi-thousand dollar radio as a first rig
unless the person has money to burn.

I would suggest the person look for a second hand radio that would be closer
to the $1,000 or under price range. If they want to stick with a radio that
is less likely to have problems they could pick up one of the K2 or K2/100
radios that come up for sale now and then on this list.

--
Cheers!

Kevin.

http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"Nerds make the shiny things that distract
Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 | the mouth-breathers, and that's why we're
| powerful!"
#include <disclaimer/favourite> | --Chris Hardwick
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Dan Baker

Re: Help me choose my first HF rig

In reply to this post by Dan Baker

I have to agree. *Get a rig and get on the air.* We have all been through
plenty of rigs. There is no substitute for experience. You have to use them
to lose them. Or keep them. You don't really know that woman until you make
her your own, and get her under your roof. Same with a radio. Don't try
this wife's, it will end you ham career. Any radio you buy from Elecraft
will be a very nice rig, and have a good resale value if you want to try
something different.

73, Dan KM6CQ
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Don Wilhelm

Re: Help me choose my first HF rig

Ron,

Well said, that is entirely in the spirit of ham radio. Hams helping
hams! May that not be forgotten - ever.

We have many stories that indicate that we do just that. I hope that
spirit never dies out.

If I may share my early ham days, I was "taken in" by the local ham club
- a group of less than 20 members in a small town in Ohio. They and
their counsel got me started, and analyzed my problems with the first
transmitter that I built. I cannot repay them directly because most of
them are SK, but I can pay back to the amateur community at large in
remembrance for what those hams did for me. Their encouragement led me
to a BSEE education and a career in electronics and design that I would
never have anticipated as a teenager.

I am not one to sell the gear I have purchased over the years, so
I have loaned some of my excess transceivers to new hams just to get
them on the air, particularly on HF.

I do not regularly sell my radios - I leave that to my heirs, so I have
some of my older gear available for long term loan - of course that is
normally to locals, but I could consider someone particularly needy in a
more remote location if I were asked.

So for an HF beginner, look around at your local ham clubs and see if
there is someone who has excess gear that can be available to use until
you can make up your mind about the ultimate station that you would like
to put together.

Make no mistake, I believe that an Elecraft station is great for
beginners and older hams alike, but if you have questions about what
will be "best for you", that takes a bit of experience to determine what
you will really need.

As I have stated before, a KX-Line will do most everything a new ham can
want for HF operations (and more), so I don't think you can go wrong
with an Elecraft station as your first ham radio investment - it is an
investment that can last you for many years and serve you well in the
meantime.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 4/13/2017 11:34 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote:

> I agree. Get a rig and get on the air.
>
> In some ways it's sad that Ham rigs have become so sophisticated and cost
> enough that most Hams need to think in terms of resale value.
>
> There is a Ham I used to chew the rig with on 40 CW regularly who saved from
> his small fixed income for a years to replace his HW-8 with a new 100 watt
> rig. Dang! He was happy with the new rig. Then I worked him again a few
> weeks later and he was back on the HW-8. I asked him why. It seems he knew a
> Ham nearby who was on also a small income and lived alone. His rig died and
> the cost to repair was prohibitive. Rather than leave him off the air my
> friend made him a gift of his new rig and dusted off his old HW-8 again.
>
> I also had a HW-8 for which I had built an outboard 25-watt amplifier (the
> HW-8 ran about 2 watts barefoot). I had since built a K2 running 10 watts,
> so I sent him my outboard amp for the HW-8.
>
> That's the Ham Radio I was raised with. We often swapped stories about how
> when we had a need others had given us stuff over the years or passed it on
> very cheaply. It's an aspect of the hobby I try hard to see continue.
>

aj4tf

Re: Help me choose my first HF rig

You will not regret an Elecraft purchase even if it is your first radio. As a comparatively newer ham (licensed in 2009) I struggled a bit when trying to decide on an HF rig. After more than one conversation with Don (at local NC hamfests) I opted for the K2, mainly because I like to build things. You can't get much more hands-on than the K2... it comes as boxes of electronic components! Of course if that is not your thing, then you can pay others to put it together. I used the K2 regularly until 2016, when I finally sprung for the K3S (kit, of course). Although not a kit in the sense of the K2, it's more like building a computer. Now the K2 is sitting quietly, waiting for the next Field Day outing. I occasionally turn it on, just so it won't get lonely.

As those who know me have heard me say many times, I am definitely not a contester, I am a casual operator. I am still figuring stuff out about the K3S, but it is a fantastic piece of engineering. Yes, it is more expensive than a basic Yawoodcom. But the performance is head and shoulders above most rigs. And the support from both the factory, and found here on this list, cannot be beat.

To the OP: Buy quality and only cry once. :-)

David AJ4TF

Alan Bloom

Re: Help me choose my first HF rig

On 04/14/2017 03:20 AM, aj4tf wrote:
> You will not regret an Elecraft purchase even if it is your first radio.

This thread is getting pretty long but I can't help but chime in.

If money is an issue (i.e. you're not part of the 1%), then I think
buying a used rig is a great way to go. If you don't like it or decide
to upgrade then you can sell it for close to what you paid for it.
Think of it as renting a radio while you get some operating experience.
After you've been on the air for a year or so, you will have a much
better idea of what you want and can make a more-informed purchase.

Something like a used K2/100 would make a great starter rig.

Alan N1AL
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Jim Brown-10

Re: Help me choose my first HF rig

I strongly agree with that. The used K3 that was listed here a few days
ago would be a great choice. When I got back on the air in 2003 after a
long time off, I bought a used Omni V, then a TS-850, and later an
FT-1000MP. For all but the MP, I was able to sell the rig for close to
what I paid. The two K3s I own are the only rigs I've bought new since a
Ten Tec Omni D in 1980.

73, Jim K9YC

On Fri,4/14/2017 9:40 AM, Alan Bloom wrote:
> If money is an issue (i.e. you're not part of the 1%), then I think
> buying a used rig is a great way to go. If you don't like it or
> decide to upgrade then you can sell it for close to what you paid for
> it. Think of it as renting a radio while you get some operating
> experience. After you've been on the air for a year or so, you will
> have a much better idea of what you want and can make a more-informed
> purchase.
>
> Something like a used K2/100 would make a great starter rig

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