Re: K3 Curious behavio

[Carl Clawson]

I understand that there's a software utility that allows you to save/load
configurations to/from a computer. But it would be handy if it were possible
to save and restore a small number (somewhere from 1 to 4) of configurations
in the radio itself. You could accommodate different operator preferences at
multi op stations where not everyone is real familiar with the rig. Also, it
would be especially good for Field Day when you may be away from your usual
support system of computers, cables, etc.

Having the ability to quickly and easily get a complicated system back to a
known state is a Very Good Thing.

73 -- Carl WS7L

> It's too easy to bump the VFO A dial while in the Menu Modes and change
> an off to an on. It took Microsoft 20 years to build a half way functional
> 'UNDO' into their O/S and Apps. I'd at least like to have a glimps at what
> changed when I went back to normal op after accessing the menus - maybe a
quick
> list of config items with a * indicating recent changes. Even if it's a
> download to printer it would be good to get a list that shows recent or
last
> settings on one page - something that could be scanned when things don't
look
> right. I know this may be a reach, but you gotta ask.
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[gm3sek]

Carl Clawson wrote:
>I understand that there's a software utility that allows you to
>save/load configurations to/from a computer. But it would be handy if
>it were possible to save and restore a small number (somewhere from 1
>to 4) of configurations in the radio itself. You could accommodate
>different operator preferences at multi op stations where not everyone
>is real familiar with the rig. Also, it would be especially good for
>Field Day when you may be away from your usual support system of
>computers, cables, etc.
>

Agreed to that. By the time our K3 arrives, I'm hoping the firmware will
have easy access to stored profiles for 'His' and 'Her' audio EQ,
because those setting are quite time-consuming to change.


--

73 from Ian GM3SEK
http://www.ifwtech.co.uk/g3sek
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[Dick Dievendorff]

You can save configurations for "his" and "her" right now with the K3
Utility.

Dick, K6KR


-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Ian White GM3SEK
Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 11:01 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Curious behavio

Carl Clawson wrote:
>I understand that there's a software utility that allows you to
>save/load configurations to/from a computer. But it would be handy if
>it were possible to save and restore a small number (somewhere from 1
>to 4) of configurations in the radio itself. You could accommodate
>different operator preferences at multi op stations where not everyone
>is real familiar with the rig. Also, it would be especially good for
>Field Day when you may be away from your usual support system of
>computers, cables, etc.
>

Agreed to that. By the time our K3 arrives, I'm hoping the firmware will
have easy access to stored profiles for 'His' and 'Her' audio EQ,
because those setting are quite time-consuming to change.


--

73 from Ian GM3SEK
http://www.ifwtech.co.uk/g3sek
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[gm3sek]

Dick Dievendorff wrote:

>>By the time our K3 arrives, I'm hoping the firmware will
>>have easy access to stored profiles for 'His' and 'Her' audio EQ,
>>because those setting are quite time-consuming to change.
>>

>You can save configurations for "his" and "her" right now with the K3
>Utility.

I'm aware of that option, but would only regard it as a temporary
workaround. Connecting a computer and reconfiguring the whole rig is not
the right way to handle a routine change of operators.


--

73 from Ian GM3SEK
http://www.ifwtech.co.uk/g3sek
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[Julian, G4ILO]

On Nov 29, 2007 7:36 AM, Ian White GM3SEK <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I'm aware of that option, but would only regard it as a temporary
> workaround. Connecting a computer and reconfiguring the whole rig is not
> the right way to handle a routine change of operators.

I imagine most people have a computer in their shack anyway, and the
K3 is probably already connected to it for firmware updates, if not
for logging, so where's the difficulty?

The real problem with the proposal as suggested is that it would
require a whole duplicate area of memory to store just one saved
firmware configuration, whereas a computer could store an unlimited
number with no overhead. People keep adding ideas to the K3 wish list
and Elecraft keep adding them to the list, but I guess that the point
has to be reached some time when the K3 MCU runs out of memory to add
new features, just as the original one in the K2 did. This doesn't
seem to me like a good use of a presumably limited resource.
--
Julian, G4ILO K2 s/n: 392  K3 s/n: ???
G4ILO's Shack: www.g4ilo.com
Zerobeat Ham Forums: www.zerobeat.net/smf
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[gm3sek]

Julian G4ILO wrote:

>On Nov 29, 2007 7:36 AM, Ian White GM3SEK <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> I'm aware of that option, but would only regard it as a temporary
>> workaround. Connecting a computer and reconfiguring the whole rig is not
>> the right way to handle a routine change of operators.
>
>I imagine most people have a computer in their shack anyway, and the
>K3 is probably already connected to it for firmware updates, if not
>for logging, so where's the difficulty?
>

As others are saying, we need to keep a clear distinction between the
different layers of controls and data:

1. Front-panel controls (for moment-to-moment operation)
2. MAIN menu (mostly operations-related)
3. CONFIG menu (mostly static configuration items)
4. Downloads from an external source.

Individual user profiles would be a layer-2 function. Using layer 4 for
this purpose would certainly not be difficult; it's just ugly.

>The real problem with the proposal as suggested is that it would
>require a whole duplicate area of memory to store just one saved
>firmware configuration, whereas a computer could store an unlimited
>number with no overhead. People keep adding ideas to the K3 wish list
>and Elecraft keep adding them to the list, but I guess that the point
>has to be reached some time when the K3 MCU runs out of memory to add
>new features, just as the original one in the K2 did. This doesn't
>seem to me like a good use of a presumably limited resource.

Maybe it doesn't, to you. But family operators will value it, and
contest operators will demand it.

Nobody is suggesting storage of the complete firmware configuration,
only the parts that genuinely do vary between individual users - voice
EQ being the most obvious example, keyer settings and stored messages
involving the operator's callsign being two more.

As for 'presumably limited resources', the MCU has 2Mbits of flash
memory for storage of static data (and another 2Mbits for dynamic data).
Given the trivial number of bits that individual user profiles would
actually need, I don't think this request would break the bank.


--

73 from Ian GM3SEK
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[Don Wilhelm-4]

I would suggest a more flexible solution.  Implement a connector for a
flash drive or another readily available format of a removable memory
card.  If the card is inserted, use the data that is stored on the card,
but if it is not present, use that which is stored in the K3.  That
would certainly make one's operating preferences portable and usable on
any K3 - but does not diminish the operation of the radio if the memory
card is not available.

73,
Don W3FPR

Ian White GM3SEK wrote:

> Nobody is suggesting storage of the complete firmware configuration,
> only the parts that genuinely do vary between individual users - voice
> EQ being the most obvious example, keyer settings and stored messages
> involving the operator's callsign being two more.
>
> As for 'presumably limited resources', the MCU has 2Mbits of flash
> memory for storage of static data (and another 2Mbits for dynamic
> data). Given the trivial number of bits that individual user profiles
> would actually need, I don't think this request would break the bank.
>
>

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[Bob Cunnings NW8L]

You might under-rate the power of the stored preset if you haven't
experienced it. The USER1, USER2 feature on the TT Orion is great -
with a button press I can completely reconfigure the rig from, for
instance, a CW setup to a SSB setup - all settings (xtal filter
selection, bandwidth, AGC, PBT, etc.), on all bands, are changed at
once. Very nice indeed. Believe it or not, I don't keep a computer in
the shack, so that's the difficulty for me.

Bob NW8L

On Nov 29, 2007 1:52 AM, Julian G4ILO <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Nov 29, 2007 7:36 AM, Ian White GM3SEK <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > I'm aware of that option, but would only regard it as a temporary
> > workaround. Connecting a computer and reconfiguring the whole rig is not
> > the right way to handle a routine change of operators.
>
> I imagine most people have a computer in their shack anyway, and the
> K3 is probably already connected to it for firmware updates, if not
> for logging, so where's the difficulty?
>

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[Geoffrey Mackenzie-Kennedy]

Don Wilhelm  <[hidden email]>  wrote:

>I would suggest a more flexible solution.  Implement a connector for a
>flash drive or another readily available format of a removable memory card.

----------------------------------------------------------

So, the K3 as it now stands does not have a USB port to which a memory stick
could be connected for updating - or am I being ignorant? Should I buy a K3
for use at another location in another country where we do not have a
computer, being able to use a memory stick ( patience, that might be the
wrong term) to update would be a 'must'.

73,
Geoff
GM4ESD

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[Vic K2VCO]

Geoffrey Mackenzie-Kennedy wrote:

> Don Wilhelm  <[hidden email]>  wrote:
>
>> I would suggest a more flexible solution.  Implement a connector for a
>> flash drive or another readily available format of a removable memory
>> card.
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
> So, the K3 as it now stands does not have a USB port to which a memory
> stick could be connected for updating - or am I being ignorant? Should I
> buy a K3 for use at another location in another country where we do not
> have a computer, being able to use a memory stick ( patience, that might
> be the wrong term) to update would be a 'must'.

Updating today requires a computer with Windows to run the K3 Utility.
In a very short while there will be a Mac (OS X) version of the utility,
and then a Linux version.

Adding a slot of some kind for a memory device would require hardware
and probably sheet metal changes. I don't think this, while a very
interesting idea, is going to happen for a while. They have plenty to do
to implement announced features, such as the second receiver, AM/FM
modes, etc.

Maybe someone could build a device that would accept a memory card and
plug into the RS232 port? It would have to know the protocol for loading
the MCU and DSP. It could also be used to save configurations. It could
be done with a PIC or Basic Stamp processor.
--
73,
Vic, K2VCO
Fresno CA
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco
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[M0XDF]

Er, isn't that device called a PC?

A Pocket PC might be able to do this - no I don't have that skillset.


On 29/11/07 17:08, "Vic K2VCO" <[hidden email]> sent:

> Maybe someone could build a device that would accept a memory card and
> plug into the RS232 port? It would have to know the protocol for loading
> the MCU and DSP. It could also be used to save configurations.

--
A successful man is one who makes more money than a wife can spend. A
successful woman is one who can find such a man.
-Lana Turner, actress (1921-1995)


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[Vic K2VCO]

David Ferrington, M0XDF wrote:
> Er, isn't that device called a PC?
>
> A Pocket PC might be able to do this - no I don't have that skillset.

It could be a whole lot simpler, smaller, and cheaper than a PC.
--
73,
Vic, K2VCO
Fresno CA
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco
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[Doug Faunt N6TQS [phone]]

Smaller, simpler, yes.  Cheaper, not clear.  There are some very cheap
PC's out there which will do the job.  And really, how many people are
going to operate a radio of this size without a computer?

73, doug

   Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 09:16:00 -0800
   From: Vic K2VCO <[hidden email]>

   David Ferrington, M0XDF wrote:
   > Er, isn't that device called a PC?
   >
   > A Pocket PC might be able to do this - no I don't have that skillset.

   It could be a whole lot simpler, smaller, and cheaper than a PC.
   --
   73,
   Vic, K2VCO
   Fresno CA
   http://www.qsl.net/k2vco
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[David Cutter]

Since getting this link from Julian, G4ILO, I am tempted to get a PDA for
remote working.

If you weren't aware of them, take a look at CTR-Remote
http://ctr-remote.home.att.net/CTR-Remote.htm and Pocket Digi
http://sourceforge.net/projects/pocketdigi/ .


David
G3UNA



----- Original Message -----
From: "Doug Faunt N6TQS [phone]" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 5:27 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Memory sticks


> Smaller, simpler, yes.  Cheaper, not clear.  There are some very cheap
> PC's out there which will do the job.  And really, how many people are
> going to operate a radio of this size without a computer?
>
> 73, doug
>
>   Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 09:16:00 -0800
>   From: Vic K2VCO <[hidden email]>
>
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[Geoffrey Mackenzie-Kennedy]

The lack of a computer could be resolved, it's getting the internet
connection in the remote area that's the problem. The memory sticks used by
our daughter are about a couple of inches long, USB connector, can store a
lot of music, photos and other data and are not expensive.

73,
Geoff
GM4ESD

From: Doug Faunt  <[hidden email]>
Sent on Thursday, November 29, 2007 5:27 PM

> Smaller, simpler, yes.  Cheaper, not clear.  There are some very cheap
> PC's out there which will do the job.  And really, how many people are
> going to operate a radio of this size without a computer?
>
> 73, doug
>
>   Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 09:16:00 -0800
>   From: Vic K2VCO <[hidden email]>
>
>   David Ferrington, M0XDF wrote:
>   > Er, isn't that device called a PC?
>   >
>   > A Pocket PC might be able to do this - no I don't have that skillset.
>
>   It could be a whole lot simpler, smaller, and cheaper than a PC.
>   --
>   73,
>   Vic, K2VCO

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[Doug Faunt N6TQS [phone]]

If you don't have an internet connection, you have to get updates in
some way.  You can already get those updates in one location (home,
internet cafe, UN base,...) and load them into a K3 at a different
location, and they can be carried between those locations on any
common medium.  You can even get them mailed from Aptos, if necessary.

I think there's some misundertanding here about the two parts of
updating.

73, doug

   From: "Geoffrey Mackenzie-Kennedy" <[hidden email]>
   Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 17:49:40 -0000

   The lack of a computer could be resolved, it's getting the internet
   connection in the remote area that's the problem. The memory sticks used by
   our daughter are about a couple of inches long, USB connector, can store a
   lot of music, photos and other data and are not expensive.

   73,
   Geoff
   GM4ESD

   From: Doug Faunt  <[hidden email]>
   Sent on Thursday, November 29, 2007 5:27 PM

   > Smaller, simpler, yes.  Cheaper, not clear.  There are some very cheap
   > PC's out there which will do the job.  And really, how many people are
   > going to operate a radio of this size without a computer?
   >
   > 73, doug
   >
   >   Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 09:16:00 -0800
   >   From: Vic K2VCO <[hidden email]>
   >
   >   David Ferrington, M0XDF wrote:
   >   > Er, isn't that device called a PC?
   >   >
   >   > A Pocket PC might be able to do this - no I don't have that skillset.
   >
   >   It could be a whole lot simpler, smaller, and cheaper than a PC.
   >   --
   >   73,
   >   Vic, K2VCO

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[Don Wilhelm-4]

Geoff,

A USB port is not necessary - but yes it would require some sort of
memory slot to be added to the K3.  I am thinking of something similar
to the Compact Flash card used in Nikon (and other) cameras.  Just
memory - without all the other protocol stuff associated with a 'port'.
The only 'computational' need is for the K3 to address the memory.

73,
Don W3FPR

Geoffrey Mackenzie-Kennedy wrote:

> Don Wilhelm  <[hidden email]>  wrote:
>
>> I would suggest a more flexible solution.  Implement a connector for
>> a flash drive or another readily available format of a removable
>> memory card.
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
> So, the K3 as it now stands does not have a USB port to which a memory
> stick could be connected for updating - or am I being ignorant? Should
> I buy a K3 for use at another location in another country where we do
> not have a computer, being able to use a memory stick ( patience, that
> might be the wrong term) to update would be a 'must'.
>
> 73,
> Geoff
> GM4ESD
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>
>

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[Geoffrey Mackenzie-Kennedy]

It was my hope that I could download K3 updates to a memory stick while here
or at an Internet Cafe on the Continent, connect it to the K3 via an USB
port and update. The advantage of memory sticks is of course their small
physical size. I have been told that adding an USB port to the K3 would
involve metalwork changes, and would probably not be done in the near
future.

Thank you for your help.

73,
Geoff
GM4ESD

Doug Faunt N6TQS [phone] <[hidden email]> wrote
On Thursday, November 29, 2007 6:14 PM

> If you don't have an internet connection, you have to get updates in
> some way.  You can already get those updates in one location (home,
> internet cafe, UN base,...) and load them into a K3 at a different
> location, and they can be carried between those locations on any
> common medium.  You can even get them mailed from Aptos, if necessary.
>
> I think there's some misundertanding here about the two parts of
> updating.
>
> 73, doug

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[Van W1WCG]

I wonder if the Serial-to-USB adapter sold by Elecraft could be used
to access a USB flash memory card plugged into the USB end of
the adapter -- it's basically a 2-way bus anyway.  Of course it would
mean yet more code and memory usage in the K3......

Van, W1WCG

----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Wilhelm" <[hidden email]>
To: "Geoffrey Mackenzie-Kennedy" <[hidden email]

> Geoff,
>
> A USB port is not necessary - but yes it would require some sort of
> memory slot to be added to the K3.  I am thinking of something similar
> to the Compact Flash card used in Nikon (and other) cameras.  Just
> memory - without all the other protocol stuff associated with a 'port'.
> The only 'computational' need is for the K3 to address the memory.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR

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[Vic K2VCO]

Geoffrey Mackenzie-Kennedy wrote:
> The lack of a computer could be resolved, it's getting the internet
> connection in the remote area that's the problem. The memory sticks used
> by our daughter are about a couple of inches long, USB connector, can
> store a lot of music, photos and other data and are not expensive.

As long as you have a computer at the remote location on which to run
the K3 Utility, the firmware files can be downloaded to the memory stick
at a location which does have internet service. Then you could take it
to your remote location, and plug it into the computer which could
transfer the firmware to the K3.

The utility has the option of downloading the files from Elecraft's
server, or of using files stored on the local computer (including on a
memory stick, CD, etc.).
--
73,
Vic, K2VCO
Fresno CA
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco
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