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Re: Leds for W1

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Doug Joyce

Re: Leds for W1

Dave / Ken:

Further to the attached:

Gary provided the info on the Red LED as "the Digi-key part# is 516-1281-ND & the Mfg is Avago Tech part # HLMP-S100."

This part is listed in the Digi-Key T091 (Jan - Apr 2009) catalogue, page 2615. The same section also lists two green LEDs, the brighter is Digi-Key part # 516-1285-ND (Avago part # HLMP-S501). Interestingly enough the T081 catalogue (page 2455) also listed a "yellow" from the same series as Digi-Key part # 516-1284-ND (Avago part # HLMP-S301), but when I tried to get a quote, the minimum order qty was over 5000 units. Orange is also made by Avago as part # HLMP-S401 (same Digi-Key part No.) with a minimum order qty of 3,000 units. So green seems to be the only other LED from the same Avago family available in reasonable quantities. (The Mouser part numbers for the Avago Tech LEDs are 630-HLMP-Sxxx etc)

For the "red" LED Luminous intensity is given as 7.5 mcd @ 20 ma with a fwd voltage drop of 1.8 volts; however for the "green" (S501) the specs are 8 mcd @ 20 ma with a fwd voltage drop of 2.2 volts. I suspect that this 0.4 volt difference may be the cause of the difference in intensity when installed in the W1.

As for yellow and orange / amber LEDs from an alternate supplier, the same T091 catalogue, page 2557 shows LEDs from Lumex.

"Yellow" is Digi-Key part # 67-1050-ND (Lumex part # SSL-LX2573-YD). Fwd voltage drop of 2.1V & luminosity of 10 mcd; and

"Amber" is Digi-Key part # 67-1045-ND (Lumex part # SSL-LX-2573-AD). Fwd voltage drop of 2.0 & luminosity of 5 mcd

(The Mouser part numbers for the Lumex LEDs are 696-SSL-LX2573xxx etc).

I ordered a qty of

526-1285-ND (HLMP-S501) , green from Avago and

67-1050-ND (SSL-LX2573-YD), yellow from Lumex and

67-1045-ND (SSL-LX2573-AD), amber from Lumex

Connected to a 12V supply with a resistor to limit the current to 20 ma, the intensity seems to be similar in all LEDs (including the original red one). When installed in the W1 however, it's a different story. (See my comment in the email below.) All of the other colours are significantly less bright than the original "red" ones.

Perhaps someone who has worked with the PIC microcontroller might be able to suggest a solution.

Doug, VE3MV

----- Original Message -----

From: [hidden email]

To: [hidden email]

Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 9:11 AM

Subject: Leds for W1

Dave: I'm not sure the email I cc'd you on earlier got sent, so here is a resend.

Ken / Dave: Just to let you know, I did this with equivalent / the same parts (I'll provide the part numbers I used later this AM) and at 20 ma fwd current they do indeed seem to all have equivalent brightness. The problem I found is that when installed in the W1, they don't light up with the same intensity as the red ones supplied. I used other colours of green, yellow and amber / orange.

I haven't spent a lot of time to investigate, but what I found so far is that the fwd voltage drop on the red LEDs is smaller than on the other colours, and in the W1 cct it is a smaller percentage of the supply voltage of 5 volts. This results in more fwd current that available for the red compared to the other colours, hence the red appears to be brighter. The next step I need to do is to actually measure the current provided by the W1 for these other colours.

I got 10 of each when I ordered then from DigiKey - Dave, if you provide your mailing address, I'll send you a couple of each and you can try then in the W1 as well.

73

Doug, VE3MV

----- Original Message -----

From: [hidden email]

To: [hidden email] ; [hidden email] ; [hidden email]

Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 10:52 PM

Subject: Re: [Elecraft] W1 LED Part Numbers

I have a "set" of additional green and yellow LED's

from Scott at Aptos. He got them for me from the

stock bins and didn't include their stock numbers.

I'll light them with a PS and see if their all the same

brightness and take a photo.

They -should- be the same product line and therefore

light equally, I'd think. They're from the KAT-100

tuner.

Scott was at least receptive to making all the W1

kits with three colors of LED's.

73! Ken

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Dave Van Wallaghen

Re: Leds for W1

Hey Doug,

Looks like you are neck deep in this ;-)

Looking at the datasheet for the PIC16F876a, it states each I/O line can
sink 25ma. Looking at the schematic for the W1, I see 2k resistors in
series with each I/O line and the LED which is then banked through a
2n7000. If (and a big if) I did some math right, that would put a max of
2.5ma available to each line.

As this is a battery operated unit, keeping the current draw down would
be a good design consideration. And at a low current like 2.5ma, that
small difference in forward voltage would probably be the difference
you'd see visually. Not to mention that the I/O lines driving the LED
banks may very well pulsed with some type of duty cycle out of visual
range (just guessing here).

I don't know if in the end, I would be bothered too much by the visual
difference of the red leds in that I guess I would want the red ones to
grab my attention. On the other hand, Tom, N5GE's suggestion to replace
the red ones also (at least on the SWR bank) so they are consistent
might be a good compromise.

I have the same Digi-Key catalog and see what you are talking about. I
will go back to the Mouser #'s Bill posted here and cross reference them
with Digi-Key and see if the operating stats are more consistent.

Thanks for the hard work,
Dave W8FGU

Doug Joyce wrote:

> Dave / Ken:
>
> Further to the attached:
>
> Gary provided the info on the Red LED as "the Digi-key part# is
> 516-1281-ND & the Mfg is Avago Tech part # HLMP-S100."
>
> This part is listed in the Digi-Key T091 (Jan - Apr 2009) catalogue,
> page 2615. The same section also lists two green LEDs, the brighter is
> Digi-Key part # 516-1285-ND (Avago part # HLMP-S501). Interestingly
> enough the T081 catalogue (page 2455) also listed a "yellow" from the
> same series as Digi-Key part # 516-1284-ND (Avago part # HLMP-S301), but
> when I tried to get a quote, the minimum order qty was over 5000 units.
> Orange is also made by Avago as part # HLMP-S401 (same Digi-Key part
> No.) with a minimum order qty of 3,000 units. So green seems to be the
> only other LED from the same Avago family available in reasonable
> quantities. (The Mouser part numbers for the Avago Tech LEDs are
> 630-HLMP-Sxxx etc)
>
> For the "red" LED Luminous intensity is given as 7.5 mcd @ 20 ma with a
> fwd voltage drop of 1.8 volts; however for the "green" (S501) the specs
> are 8 mcd @ 20 ma with a fwd voltage drop of 2.2 volts. I suspect that
> this 0.4 volt difference may be the cause of the difference in intensity
> when installed in the W1.
>
> As for yellow and orange / amber LEDs from an alternate supplier, the
> same T091 catalogue, page 2557 shows LEDs from Lumex.
> "Yellow" is Digi-Key part # 67-1050-ND (Lumex part # SSL-LX2573-YD).
> Fwd voltage drop of 2.1V & luminosity of 10 mcd; and
> "Amber" is Digi-Key part # 67-1045-ND (Lumex part # SSL-LX-2573-AD).
> Fwd voltage drop of 2.0 & luminosity of 5 mcd
> (The Mouser part numbers for the Lumex LEDs are 696-SSL-LX2573xxx etc).
>
> I ordered a qty of
> 526-1285-ND (HLMP-S501) , green from Avago and
> 67-1050-ND (SSL-LX2573-YD), yellow from Lumex and
> 67-1045-ND (SSL-LX2573-AD), amber from Lumex
>
> Connected to a 12V supply with a resistor to limit the current to 20 ma,
> the intensity seems to be similar in all LEDs (including the original
> red one). When installed in the W1 however, it's a different story.
> (See my comment in the email below.) All of the other colours are
> significantly less bright than the original "red" ones.
>
> Perhaps someone who has worked with the PIC microcontroller might be
> able to suggest a solution.
>
> 73
>
> Doug, VE3MV
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Doug Joyce <mailto:[hidden email]>
> *To:* Dave Van Wallaghen <mailto:[hidden email]>
> *Sent:* Friday, February 20, 2009 9:11 AM
> *Subject:* Leds for W1
>
> Dave: I'm not sure the email I cc'd you on earlier got sent, so
> here is a resend.
>
> Ken / Dave: Just to let you know, I did this with equivalent / the
> same parts (I'll provide the part numbers I used later this AM) and
> at 20 ma fwd current they do indeed seem to all have equivalent
> brightness. The problem I found is that when installed in the W1,
> they don't light up with the same intensity as the red ones
> supplied. I used other colours of green, yellow and amber / orange.
>
> I haven't spent a lot of time to investigate, but what I found so
> far is that the fwd voltage drop on the red LEDs is smaller than on
> the other colours, and in the W1 cct it is a smaller percentage of
> the supply voltage of 5 volts. This results in more fwd current
> that available for the red compared to the other colours, hence the
> red appears to be brighter. The next step I need to do is to
> actually measure the current provided by the W1 for these other colours.
>
> I got 10 of each when I ordered then from DigiKey - Dave, if you
> provide your mailing address, I'll send you a couple of each and you
> can try then in the W1 as well.
>
> 73
>
> Doug, VE3MV
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Ken Kopp <mailto:[hidden email]>
> *To:* [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]> ; Doug Joyce
> <mailto:[hidden email]> ; [hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>
> *Sent:* Thursday, February 19, 2009 10:52 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Elecraft] W1 LED Part Numbers
>
> I have a "set" of additional green and yellow LED's
> from Scott at Aptos. He got them for me from the
> stock bins and didn't include their stock numbers.
>
> I'll light them with a PS and see if their all the same
> brightness and take a photo.
>
> They -should- be the same product line and therefore
> light equally, I'd think. They're from the KAT-100
> tuner.
>
> Scott was at least receptive to making all the W1
> kits with three colors of LED's.
>
> 73! Ken
>
>

Jack Smith-6

Re: Leds for W1

In reply to this post by Doug Joyce

I have some experience driving LEDs from a PIC (both in my book
Programming the PIC Microcontroller with MBasic) as well as the Z100 CW
tuning aid kit that I developed. (Still available, should anyone be
interested, as well as the book is still in print.)

The Z100 uses red, yellow and green rectangular LEDs, driven from a PIC
with a small series resistor.
http://www.cliftonlaboratories.com/z100_tuning_aid.htm for more details.

For all practical purposes, a PIC won't source more than about 20 mA
even into a short circuit. Looking at the W1's schematic (I don't own
one) it seems that the maximum current available to drive an LED is
around 1.5 mA (5V from the PIC, less 2V drop for the LED average, with
2K ohm series from the PIC output. The 2N7000's on resistance can be
ignored in this calculation.) That's quite low current, and it should be
possible to boost it--and the LED's brightness--considerably by reducing
the 2K series resistors.

My experience is that although perhaps not designed that way, PICs are
pretty abuse tolerant in the output mode. My Z100 drives the LEDs
through 43 ohm resistors and the LEDs are quite bright. The Z100's
typical LED driving current is around 10 mA if I remember the
measurements correctly.

A couple of caveats - the Z100 does not run with all the LEDs
illuminated under normal conditions. With noise, perhaps three or four
are at at maximum, and with a signal input, one or two. Hence the
Z100's+5V regulator is not designed to provide oodles of current.
Second, there is a dissipation limit on how much total current a PIC can
source from all pins. If the W1 operates in a mode where most LEDs are
on for extended periods, I would evaluate the 5V regulator's thermal
performance and also the PIC's maximum power dissipation before getting
carried away with reducing the series driver resistors.

As usual, should anyone destroy their W1 through making these changes,
you are on your own.

Jack K8ZOA
www.cliftonlaboratories.com

Doug Joyce wrote:

> Dave / Ken:
>
> Further to the attached:
>
> Gary provided the info on the Red LED as "the Digi-key part# is
> 516-1281-ND & the Mfg is Avago Tech part # HLMP-S100."
>
> This part is listed in the Digi-Key T091 (Jan - Apr 2009) catalogue,
> page 2615. The same section also lists two green LEDs, the brighter
> is Digi-Key part # 516-1285-ND (Avago part # HLMP-S501).
> Interestingly enough the T081 catalogue (page 2455) also listed a
> "yellow" from the same series as Digi-Key part # 516-1284-ND (Avago
> part # HLMP-S301), but when I tried to get a quote, the minimum order
> qty was over 5000 units. Orange is also made by Avago as part
> # HLMP-S401 (same Digi-Key part No.) with a minimum order qty of 3,000
> units. So green seems to be the only other LED from the same Avago
> family available in reasonable quantities. (The Mouser part numbers
> for the Avago Tech LEDs are 630-HLMP-Sxxx etc)
>
> For the "red" LED Luminous intensity is given as 7.5 mcd @ 20 ma with
> a fwd voltage drop of 1.8 volts; however for the "green" (S501) the
> specs are 8 mcd @ 20 ma with a fwd voltage drop of 2.2 volts. I
> suspect that this 0.4 volt difference may be the cause of the
> difference in intensity when installed in the W1.
>
> As for yellow and orange / amber LEDs from an alternate supplier, the
> same T091 catalogue, page 2557 shows LEDs from Lumex.
> "Yellow" is Digi-Key part # 67-1050-ND (Lumex part # SSL-LX2573-YD).
> Fwd voltage drop of 2.1V & luminosity of 10 mcd; and
> "Amber" is Digi-Key part # 67-1045-ND (Lumex part # SSL-LX-2573-AD).
> Fwd voltage drop of 2.0 & luminosity of 5 mcd
> (The Mouser part numbers for the Lumex LEDs are 696-SSL-LX2573xxx etc).
>
> I ordered a qty of
> 526-1285-ND (HLMP-S501) , green from Avago and
> 67-1050-ND (SSL-LX2573-YD), yellow from Lumex and
> 67-1045-ND (SSL-LX2573-AD), amber from Lumex
>
> Connected to a 12V supply with a resistor to limit the current to 20
> ma, the intensity seems to be similar in all LEDs (including the
> original red one). When installed in the W1 however, it's a
> different story. (See my comment in the email below.) All of the
> other colours are significantly less bright than the original "red" ones.
>
> Perhaps someone who has worked with the PIC microcontroller might be
> able to suggest a solution.
>
> 73
>
> Doug, VE3MV
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Doug Joyce <mailto:[hidden email]>
> *To:* Dave Van Wallaghen <mailto:[hidden email]>
> *Sent:* Friday, February 20, 2009 9:11 AM
> *Subject:* Leds for W1
>
> Dave: I'm not sure the email I cc'd you on earlier got sent, so
> here is a resend.
>
> Ken / Dave: Just to let you know, I did this with equivalent /
> the same parts (I'll provide the part numbers I used later this
> AM) and at 20 ma fwd current they do indeed seem to all have
> equivalent brightness. The problem I found is that when installed
> in the W1, they don't light up with the same intensity as the red
> ones supplied. I used other colours of green, yellow and amber /
> orange.
>
> I haven't spent a lot of time to investigate, but what I found so
> far is that the fwd voltage drop on the red LEDs is smaller than
> on the other colours, and in the W1 cct it is a smaller percentage
> of the supply voltage of 5 volts. This results in more fwd
> current that available for the red compared to the other colours,
> hence the red appears to be brighter. The next step I need to do
> is to actually measure the current provided by the W1 for these
> other colours.
>
> I got 10 of each when I ordered then from DigiKey - Dave, if you
> provide your mailing address, I'll send you a couple of each and
> you can try then in the W1 as well.
>
> 73
>
> Doug, VE3MV
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Ken Kopp <mailto:[hidden email]>
> *To:* [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]> ; Doug
> Joyce <mailto:[hidden email]> ; [hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>
> *Sent:* Thursday, February 19, 2009 10:52 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Elecraft] W1 LED Part Numbers
>
> I have a "set" of additional green and yellow LED's
> from Scott at Aptos. He got them for me from the
> stock bins and didn't include their stock numbers.
>
> I'll light them with a PS and see if their all the same
> brightness and take a photo.
>
> They -should- be the same product line and therefore
> light equally, I'd think. They're from the KAT-100
> tuner.
>
> Scott was at least receptive to making all the W1
> kits with three colors of LED's.
>
> 73! Ken
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Dave Van Wallaghen

Re: Leds for W1

Thanks for the input Jack. I've done some PIC programming in the past
and know that you have to try real hard to let the smoke out of them ;-)

Like I stated earlier, my guess is that the W1 was designed for low
current consumption being battery operated and used for portable ops. So
I'm sure your calculations are right on.

I had to order some other parts from Digi-Key anyway so I went ahead and
ordered the Lumex line of red, yellow and green leds that Doug spoke
about. They are all very close in forward voltage and are all rated at
10mcd output. I also ordered the amber, although it is only rated at
5mcd and their super red which is rated at 80mcd. I will try these out
on my W1 to see the differences. Besides, I just bought a new Hakko 808
I've been wanting to try out.

My guess is at worst, the power scale leds may be brighter than the SWR
scale, but I can at least get the SWR uniform in brightness. Other than
that, it might take replacing the power scale leds as well for those who
want it totally uniform. Or like Jack alluded to, replacing the series
resistors which doesn't sound like much fun to me (and possibly
increasing current consumption).

I will make current measurements before I replace anything and record
the changes in current while experimenting. I will post my results back
to the list. If there is enough interest (and it seems like there is) I
would not mind ordering these in quantity and a splitting them up into
small kits as long as Eric or Wayne do not mind me doing so.

Thanks for everyones input and research and bandwidth on the reflector.

73,
Dave W8FGU

Jack Smith wrote:

> I have some experience driving LEDs from a PIC (both in my book
> Programming the PIC Microcontroller with MBasic) as well as the Z100 CW
> tuning aid kit that I developed. (Still available, should anyone be
> interested, as well as the book is still in print.)
>
> The Z100 uses red, yellow and green rectangular LEDs, driven from a PIC
> with a small series resistor.
> http://www.cliftonlaboratories.com/z100_tuning_aid.htm for more details.
>
> For all practical purposes, a PIC won't source more than about 20 mA
> even into a short circuit. Looking at the W1's schematic (I don't own
> one) it seems that the maximum current available to drive an LED is
> around 1.5 mA (5V from the PIC, less 2V drop for the LED average, with
> 2K ohm series from the PIC output. The 2N7000's on resistance can be
> ignored in this calculation.) That's quite low current, and it should be
> possible to boost it--and the LED's brightness--considerably by reducing
> the 2K series resistors.
>
> My experience is that although perhaps not designed that way, PICs are
> pretty abuse tolerant in the output mode. My Z100 drives the LEDs
> through 43 ohm resistors and the LEDs are quite bright. The Z100's
> typical LED driving current is around 10 mA if I remember the
> measurements correctly.
>
> A couple of caveats - the Z100 does not run with all the LEDs
> illuminated under normal conditions. With noise, perhaps three or four
> are at at maximum, and with a signal input, one or two. Hence the
> Z100's+5V regulator is not designed to provide oodles of current.
> Second, there is a dissipation limit on how much total current a PIC can
> source from all pins. If the W1 operates in a mode where most LEDs are
> on for extended periods, I would evaluate the 5V regulator's thermal
> performance and also the PIC's maximum power dissipation before getting
> carried away with reducing the series driver resistors.
>
> As usual, should anyone destroy their W1 through making these changes,
> you are on your own.
>
> Jack K8ZOA
> www.cliftonlaboratories.com
>
>
>
> Doug Joyce wrote:
>> Dave / Ken:
>>
>> Further to the attached:
>>
>> Gary provided the info on the Red LED as "the Digi-key part# is
>> 516-1281-ND & the Mfg is Avago Tech part # HLMP-S100."
>> This part is listed in the Digi-Key T091 (Jan - Apr 2009) catalogue,
>> page 2615. The same section also lists two green LEDs, the brighter
>> is Digi-Key part # 516-1285-ND (Avago part # HLMP-S501).
>> Interestingly enough the T081 catalogue (page 2455) also listed a
>> "yellow" from the same series as Digi-Key part # 516-1284-ND (Avago
>> part # HLMP-S301), but when I tried to get a quote, the minimum order
>> qty was over 5000 units. Orange is also made by Avago as part #
>> HLMP-S401 (same Digi-Key part No.) with a minimum order qty of 3,000
>> units. So green seems to be the only other LED from the same Avago
>> family available in reasonable quantities. (The Mouser part numbers
>> for the Avago Tech LEDs are 630-HLMP-Sxxx etc)
>>
>> For the "red" LED Luminous intensity is given as 7.5 mcd @ 20 ma with
>> a fwd voltage drop of 1.8 volts; however for the "green" (S501) the
>> specs are 8 mcd @ 20 ma with a fwd voltage drop of 2.2 volts. I
>> suspect that this 0.4 volt difference may be the cause of the
>> difference in intensity when installed in the W1.
>> As for yellow and orange / amber LEDs from an alternate supplier, the
>> same T091 catalogue, page 2557 shows LEDs from Lumex.
>> "Yellow" is Digi-Key part # 67-1050-ND (Lumex part # SSL-LX2573-YD).
>> Fwd voltage drop of 2.1V & luminosity of 10 mcd; and
>> "Amber" is Digi-Key part # 67-1045-ND (Lumex part # SSL-LX-2573-AD).
>> Fwd voltage drop of 2.0 & luminosity of 5 mcd
>> (The Mouser part numbers for the Lumex LEDs are 696-SSL-LX2573xxx etc).
>>
>> I ordered a qty of
>> 526-1285-ND (HLMP-S501) , green from Avago and
>> 67-1050-ND (SSL-LX2573-YD), yellow from Lumex and
>> 67-1045-ND (SSL-LX2573-AD), amber from Lumex
>>
>> Connected to a 12V supply with a resistor to limit the current to 20
>> ma, the intensity seems to be similar in all LEDs (including the
>> original red one). When installed in the W1 however, it's a
>> different story. (See my comment in the email below.) All of the
>> other colours are significantly less bright than the original "red" ones.
>>
>> Perhaps someone who has worked with the PIC microcontroller might be
>> able to suggest a solution.
>>
>> 73
>>
>> Doug, VE3MV
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> *From:* Doug Joyce <mailto:[hidden email]>
>> *To:* Dave Van Wallaghen <mailto:[hidden email]>
>> *Sent:* Friday, February 20, 2009 9:11 AM
>> *Subject:* Leds for W1
>>
>> Dave: I'm not sure the email I cc'd you on earlier got sent, so
>> here is a resend.
>> Ken / Dave: Just to let you know, I did this with equivalent /
>> the same parts (I'll provide the part numbers I used later this
>> AM) and at 20 ma fwd current they do indeed seem to all have
>> equivalent brightness. The problem I found is that when installed
>> in the W1, they don't light up with the same intensity as the red
>> ones supplied. I used other colours of green, yellow and amber /
>> orange.
>> I haven't spent a lot of time to investigate, but what I
>> found so
>> far is that the fwd voltage drop on the red LEDs is smaller than
>> on the other colours, and in the W1 cct it is a smaller percentage
>> of the supply voltage of 5 volts. This results in more fwd
>> current that available for the red compared to the other colours,
>> hence the red appears to be brighter. The next step I need to do
>> is to actually measure the current provided by the W1 for these
>> other colours.
>> I got 10 of each when I ordered then from DigiKey - Dave, if
>> you
>> provide your mailing address, I'll send you a couple of each and
>> you can try then in the W1 as well.
>> 73
>> Doug, VE3MV
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> *From:* Ken Kopp <mailto:[hidden email]>
>> *To:* [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]> ; Doug
>> Joyce <mailto:[hidden email]> ; [hidden email]
>> <mailto:[hidden email]>
>> *Sent:* Thursday, February 19, 2009 10:52 PM
>> *Subject:* Re: [Elecraft] W1 LED Part Numbers
>>
>> I have a "set" of additional green and yellow LED's
>> from Scott at Aptos. He got them for me from the
>> stock bins and didn't include their stock numbers.
>> I'll light them with a PS and see if their all the same
>> brightness and take a photo.
>> They -should- be the same product line and therefore
>> light equally, I'd think. They're from the KAT-100
>> tuner.
>> Scott was at least receptive to making all the W1
>> kits with three colors of LED's.
>> 73! Ken
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
>

Bill Johnson-9

Re: Leds for W1

Thanks for the excellent discussion and possible solutions. Please include
me in the effort to experiment. My Hakko 808 hasn't been used for a month
so I wouldn't mind helping out. I will gladly put in some $'s to purchase
parts/share in cost to get at a solution. Suggestion: if the green and
yellow output is sufficient and the amber is the only low output, perhaps it
might best to revert back to either yellow or red... the user could decide.

Let me know what I can do. I would also be ok with replacing the drive
resistors to boost the LED output for SWR readings: perhaps reducing the
Power LED output slightly might be a power consideration for battery
conservation.

73,

Bill
K9YEQ
K2 #35; KX1 #35; K3 #1744; mini mods

-----Original Message-----
............... my guess is that the W1 was designed for low
current consumption being battery operated and used for portable ops. So
I'm sure your calculations are right on.

...............
ordered the Lumex line of red, yellow and green leds that Doug spoke
about. They are all very close in forward voltage and are all rated at
10mcd output. I also ordered the amber, although it is only rated at
5mcd and their super red which is rated at 80mcd. I will try these out
on my W1 to see the differences. Besides, I just bought a new Hakko 808
I've been wanting to try out.

My guess is at worst, the power scale leds may be brighter than the SWR
scale, but I can at least get the SWR uniform in brightness. Other than
that, it might take replacing the power scale leds as well for those who
want it totally uniform. Or like Jack alluded to, replacing the series
resistors which doesn't sound like much fun to me (and possibly
increasing current consumption).

I will make current measurements before I replace anything and record
the changes in current while experimenting. I will post my results back
to the list. If there is enough interest (and it seems like there is) I
would not mind ordering these in quantity and a splitting them up ....
73,
Dave W8FGU

Jack Smith wrote:

Doug Joyce

Re: Leds for W1

Bill: I've done some further testing and believe it's going to take
increasing the current to approx 6 to 7 ma to get the new coloured LEDs to
be bright enough. That would involve reducing the 2.2 Ks to approx 470 ohms
and finding a source for a suitable resistor pack. At this higher current
the red LEDs are still brighter than the other colours and there is no easy
way to separately control the current to individual colours.

There are also a number of other things to check such as the ability of the
U3 regulator to handle the increased current. Battery life will also be
reduced and perhaps this "coloured version" needs to be run from a wall
wart.

73

Doug, VE3MV

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Johnson" <[hidden email]>
To: "'Dave Van Wallaghen'" <[hidden email]>; "'Jack Smith'"
<[hidden email]>
Cc: <[hidden email]>; "'Ken Kopp'" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 6:59 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Leds for W1

> Thanks for the excellent discussion and possible solutions. Please
include
> me in the effort to experiment. My Hakko 808 hasn't been used for a month
> so I wouldn't mind helping out. I will gladly put in some $'s to purchase
> parts/share in cost to get at a solution. Suggestion: if the green and
> yellow output is sufficient and the amber is the only low output, perhaps
it
> might best to revert back to either yellow or red... the user could
decide.

>
> Let me know what I can do. I would also be ok with replacing the drive
> resistors to boost the LED output for SWR readings: perhaps reducing the
> Power LED output slightly might be a power consideration for battery
> conservation.
>
>
> 73,
>
> Bill
> K9YEQ
> K2 #35; KX1 #35; K3 #1744; mini mods
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> ............... my guess is that the W1 was designed for low
> current consumption being battery operated and used for portable ops. So
> I'm sure your calculations are right on.
>
> ...............
> ordered the Lumex line of red, yellow and green leds that Doug spoke
> about. They are all very close in forward voltage and are all rated at
> 10mcd output. I also ordered the amber, although it is only rated at
> 5mcd and their super red which is rated at 80mcd. I will try these out
> on my W1 to see the differences. Besides, I just bought a new Hakko 808
> I've been wanting to try out.
>
> My guess is at worst, the power scale leds may be brighter than the SWR
> scale, but I can at least get the SWR uniform in brightness. Other than
> that, it might take replacing the power scale leds as well for those who
> want it totally uniform. Or like Jack alluded to, replacing the series
> resistors which doesn't sound like much fun to me (and possibly
> increasing current consumption).
>
> I will make current measurements before I replace anything and record
> the changes in current while experimenting. I will post my results back
> to the list. If there is enough interest (and it seems like there is) I
> would not mind ordering these in quantity and a splitting them up ....
> 73,
> Dave W8FGU
>
> Jack Smith wrote:
> > I have some experience driving LEDs from a PIC (both in my book
> > Programming the PIC Microcontroller with MBasic) as well as the Z100 CW
> > tuning aid kit that I developed. (Still available, should anyone be
> > interested, as well as the book is still in print.)
> >
> > The Z100 uses red, yellow and green rectangular LEDs, driven from a PIC
> > with a small series resistor.
> > http://www.cliftonlaboratories.com/z100_tuning_aid.htm for more details.
> >
> > For all practical purposes, a PIC won't source more than about 20 mA
> > even into a short circuit. Looking at the W1's schematic (I don't own
> > one) it seems that the maximum current available to drive an LED is
> > around 1.5 mA (5V from the PIC, less 2V drop for the LED average, with
> > 2K ohm series from the PIC output. The 2N7000's on resistance can be
> > ignored in this calculation.) That's quite low current, and it should be
> > possible to boost it--and the LED's brightness--considerably by reducing
> > the 2K series resistors.
> >
> > My experience is that although perhaps not designed that way, PICs are
> > pretty abuse tolerant in the output mode. My Z100 drives the LEDs
> > through 43 ohm resistors and the LEDs are quite bright. The Z100's
> > typical LED driving current is around 10 mA if I remember the
> > measurements correctly.
> >
> > A couple of caveats - the Z100 does not run with all the LEDs
> > illuminated under normal conditions. With noise, perhaps three or four
> > are at at maximum, and with a signal input, one or two. Hence the
> > Z100's+5V regulator is not designed to provide oodles of current.
> > Second, there is a dissipation limit on how much total current a PIC can
> > source from all pins. If the W1 operates in a mode where most LEDs are
> > on for extended periods, I would evaluate the 5V regulator's thermal
> > performance and also the PIC's maximum power dissipation before getting
> > carried away with reducing the series driver resistors.
> >
> > As usual, should anyone destroy their W1 through making these changes,
> > you are on your own.
> >
> > Jack K8ZOA
> > www.cliftonlaboratories.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Doug Joyce wrote:
> >> Dave / Ken:
> >>
> >> Further to the attached:
> >>
> >> Gary provided the info on the Red LED as "the Digi-key part# is
> >> 516-1281-ND & the Mfg is Avago Tech part # HLMP-S100."
> >> This part is listed in the Digi-Key T091 (Jan - Apr 2009) catalogue,
> >> page 2615. The same section also lists two green LEDs, the brighter
> >> is Digi-Key part # 516-1285-ND (Avago part # HLMP-S501).
> >> Interestingly enough the T081 catalogue (page 2455) also listed a
> >> "yellow" from the same series as Digi-Key part # 516-1284-ND (Avago
> >> part # HLMP-S301), but when I tried to get a quote, the minimum order
> >> qty was over 5000 units. Orange is also made by Avago as part #
> >> HLMP-S401 (same Digi-Key part No.) with a minimum order qty of 3,000
> >> units. So green seems to be the only other LED from the same Avago
> >> family available in reasonable quantities. (The Mouser part numbers
> >> for the Avago Tech LEDs are 630-HLMP-Sxxx etc)
> >>
> >> For the "red" LED Luminous intensity is given as 7.5 mcd @ 20 ma with
> >> a fwd voltage drop of 1.8 volts; however for the "green" (S501) the
> >> specs are 8 mcd @ 20 ma with a fwd voltage drop of 2.2 volts. I
> >> suspect that this 0.4 volt difference may be the cause of the
> >> difference in intensity when installed in the W1.
> >> As for yellow and orange / amber LEDs from an alternate supplier, the
> >> same T091 catalogue, page 2557 shows LEDs from Lumex.
> >> "Yellow" is Digi-Key part # 67-1050-ND (Lumex part # SSL-LX2573-YD).
> >> Fwd voltage drop of 2.1V & luminosity of 10 mcd; and
> >> "Amber" is Digi-Key part # 67-1045-ND (Lumex part # SSL-LX-2573-AD).
> >> Fwd voltage drop of 2.0 & luminosity of 5 mcd
> >> (The Mouser part numbers for the Lumex LEDs are 696-SSL-LX2573xxx

etc).

> >>
> >> I ordered a qty of
> >> 526-1285-ND (HLMP-S501) , green from Avago and
> >> 67-1050-ND (SSL-LX2573-YD), yellow from Lumex and
> >> 67-1045-ND (SSL-LX2573-AD), amber from Lumex
> >>
> >> Connected to a 12V supply with a resistor to limit the current to 20
> >> ma, the intensity seems to be similar in all LEDs (including the
> >> original red one). When installed in the W1 however, it's a
> >> different story. (See my comment in the email below.) All of the
> >> other colours are significantly less bright than the original "red"

ones.

> >>
> >> Perhaps someone who has worked with the PIC microcontroller might be
> >> able to suggest a solution.
> >>
> >> 73
> >>
> >> Doug, VE3MV
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> *From:* Doug Joyce <mailto:[hidden email]>
> >> *To:* Dave Van Wallaghen <mailto:[hidden email]>
> >> *Sent:* Friday, February 20, 2009 9:11 AM
> >> *Subject:* Leds for W1
> >>
> >> Dave: I'm not sure the email I cc'd you on earlier got sent, so
> >> here is a resend.
> >> Ken / Dave: Just to let you know, I did this with equivalent

> >> the same parts (I'll provide the part numbers I used later this
> >> AM) and at 20 ma fwd current they do indeed seem to all have
> >> equivalent brightness. The problem I found is that when installed
> >> in the W1, they don't light up with the same intensity as the red
> >> ones supplied. I used other colours of green, yellow and amber /
> >> orange.
> >> I haven't spent a lot of time to investigate, but what I
> >> found so
> >> far is that the fwd voltage drop on the red LEDs is smaller than
> >> on the other colours, and in the W1 cct it is a smaller percentage
> >> of the supply voltage of 5 volts. This results in more fwd
> >> current that available for the red compared to the other colours,
> >> hence the red appears to be brighter. The next step I need to do
> >> is to actually measure the current provided by the W1 for these
> >> other colours.
> >> I got 10 of each when I ordered then from DigiKey - Dave, if
> >> you
> >> provide your mailing address, I'll send you a couple of each and
> >> you can try then in the W1 as well.
> >> 73
> >> Doug, VE3MV
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> *From:* Ken Kopp <mailto:[hidden email]>
> >> *To:* [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]> ; Doug
> >> Joyce <mailto:[hidden email]> ; [hidden email]
> >> <mailto:[hidden email]>
> >> *Sent:* Thursday, February 19, 2009 10:52 PM
> >> *Subject:* Re: [Elecraft] W1 LED Part Numbers
> >>
> >> I have a "set" of additional green and yellow LED's
> >> from Scott at Aptos. He got them for me from the
> >> stock bins and didn't include their stock numbers.
> >> I'll light them with a PS and see if their all the

same

> >> brightness and take a photo.
> >> They -should- be the same product line and therefore
> >> light equally, I'd think. They're from the KAT-100
> >> tuner.
> >> Scott was at least receptive to making all the W1
> >> kits with three colors of LED's.
> >> 73! Ken
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
>

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Bill Johnson-9

Re: Leds for W1

It seems we need to find a set of colored LED's that give similar output as
the reds.... With the research done so far, doesn't look at that likely. I
wonder if there are other resources. I wonder if a resistor pack of a
slightly higher value than 470 might be a better compromise and change the
value of the SWR reds so they won't draw more than the others. This would
help reduce power draw.

73,

Bill
K9YEQ
K2 #35; KX1 #35; K3 #1744; mini mods

-----Original Message-----
From: Doug Joyce [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 9:40 PM
To: Bill Johnson; 'Dave Van Wallaghen'; 'Jack Smith'
Cc: [hidden email]; 'Ken Kopp'
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Leds for W1

Bill: I've done some further testing and believe it's going to take
increasing the current to approx 6 to 7 ma to get the new coloured LEDs to
be bright enough. That would involve reducing the 2.2 Ks to approx 470 ohms
and finding a source for a suitable resistor pack. At this higher current
the red LEDs are still brighter than the other colours and there is no easy
way to separately control the current to individual colours.

There are also a number of other things to check such as the ability of the
U3 regulator to handle the increased current. Battery life will also be
reduced and perhaps this "coloured version" needs to be run from a wall
wart.

73

Doug, VE3MV

----- Original Message -----

The Professional version does not have this message

______________________________________________________________
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Tom McCulloch

Re: Leds for W1

In reply to this post by Doug Joyce

I'm in the process of building the W1 and have substituted the colored LED's
on the SWR readout as has been discussed.

I really haven't been following this thread closely and I haven't finished
the W1 build yet so this may have already been covered.

I include myself when I say that it seems that everyone seems to be
replacing SOME of the red LED's with the green, amber and yellow jobbies.
And we seem to be using the red LEDs that came with the W1.

Has anyone replaced ALL of the LEDs, including the RED ones. Wouldn't using
all now LED's from the same manufacturer, and specs give the desired results
of consistent brightness?

Again, I didn't do this because I wasn't aware of the issue when started,
but the LEDs I got from Mouser were relatively inexpensive (about $0.15
each) so this might have been an easier fix.

Perhaps this had previously been covered.

Just a thought

Tom
WB2QDG
K2 1103

----- Original Message -----
From: "Doug Joyce" <[hidden email]>
To: "Bill Johnson" <[hidden email]>; "'Dave Van Wallaghen'"
<[hidden email]>; "'Jack Smith'" <[hidden email]>
Cc: <[hidden email]>; "'Ken Kopp'" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 10:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Leds for W1

> Bill: I've done some further testing and believe it's going to take
> increasing the current to approx 6 to 7 ma to get the new coloured LEDs to
> be bright enough. That would involve reducing the 2.2 Ks to approx 470
> ohms
> and finding a source for a suitable resistor pack. At this higher current
> the red LEDs are still brighter than the other colours and there is no
> easy
> way to separately control the current to individual colours.
>
> There are also a number of other things to check such as the ability of
> the
> U3 regulator to handle the increased current. Battery life will also be
> reduced and perhaps this "coloured version" needs to be run from a wall
> wart.
>
> 73
>
> Doug, VE3MV
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bill Johnson" <[hidden email]>
> To: "'Dave Van Wallaghen'" <[hidden email]>; "'Jack Smith'"
> <[hidden email]>
> Cc: <[hidden email]>; "'Ken Kopp'" <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 6:59 PM
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Leds for W1
>
>
>> Thanks for the excellent discussion and possible solutions. Please
> include
>> me in the effort to experiment. My Hakko 808 hasn't been used for a
>> month
>> so I wouldn't mind helping out. I will gladly put in some $'s to
>> purchase
>> parts/share in cost to get at a solution. Suggestion: if the green and
>> yellow output is sufficient and the amber is the only low output, perhaps
> it
>> might best to revert back to either yellow or red... the user could
> decide.
>>
>> Let me know what I can do. I would also be ok with replacing the drive
>> resistors to boost the LED output for SWR readings: perhaps reducing the
>> Power LED output slightly might be a power consideration for battery
>> conservation.
>>
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> Bill
>> K9YEQ
>> K2 #35; KX1 #35; K3 #1744; mini mods
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> ............... my guess is that the W1 was designed for low
>> current consumption being battery operated and used for portable ops. So
>> I'm sure your calculations are right on.
>>
>> ...............
>> ordered the Lumex line of red, yellow and green leds that Doug spoke
>> about. They are all very close in forward voltage and are all rated at
>> 10mcd output. I also ordered the amber, although it is only rated at
>> 5mcd and their super red which is rated at 80mcd. I will try these out
>> on my W1 to see the differences. Besides, I just bought a new Hakko 808
>> I've been wanting to try out.
>>
>> My guess is at worst, the power scale leds may be brighter than the SWR
>> scale, but I can at least get the SWR uniform in brightness. Other than
>> that, it might take replacing the power scale leds as well for those who
>> want it totally uniform. Or like Jack alluded to, replacing the series
>> resistors which doesn't sound like much fun to me (and possibly
>> increasing current consumption).
>>
>> I will make current measurements before I replace anything and record
>> the changes in current while experimenting. I will post my results back
>> to the list. If there is enough interest (and it seems like there is) I
>> would not mind ordering these in quantity and a splitting them up ....
>> 73,
>> Dave W8FGU
>>
>> Jack Smith wrote:
>> > I have some experience driving LEDs from a PIC (both in my book
>> > Programming the PIC Microcontroller with MBasic) as well as the Z100 CW
>> > tuning aid kit that I developed. (Still available, should anyone be
>> > interested, as well as the book is still in print.)
>> >
>> > The Z100 uses red, yellow and green rectangular LEDs, driven from a
>> > PIC
>> > with a small series resistor.
>> > http://www.cliftonlaboratories.com/z100_tuning_aid.htm for more
>> > details.
>> >
>> > For all practical purposes, a PIC won't source more than about 20 mA
>> > even into a short circuit. Looking at the W1's schematic (I don't own
>> > one) it seems that the maximum current available to drive an LED is
>> > around 1.5 mA (5V from the PIC, less 2V drop for the LED average, with
>> > 2K ohm series from the PIC output. The 2N7000's on resistance can be
>> > ignored in this calculation.) That's quite low current, and it should
>> > be
>> > possible to boost it--and the LED's brightness--considerably by
>> > reducing
>> > the 2K series resistors.
>> >
>> > My experience is that although perhaps not designed that way, PICs are
>> > pretty abuse tolerant in the output mode. My Z100 drives the LEDs
>> > through 43 ohm resistors and the LEDs are quite bright. The Z100's
>> > typical LED driving current is around 10 mA if I remember the
>> > measurements correctly.
>> >
>> > A couple of caveats - the Z100 does not run with all the LEDs
>> > illuminated under normal conditions. With noise, perhaps three or four
>> > are at at maximum, and with a signal input, one or two. Hence the
>> > Z100's+5V regulator is not designed to provide oodles of current.
>> > Second, there is a dissipation limit on how much total current a PIC
>> > can
>> > source from all pins. If the W1 operates in a mode where most LEDs are
>> > on for extended periods, I would evaluate the 5V regulator's thermal
>> > performance and also the PIC's maximum power dissipation before getting
>> > carried away with reducing the series driver resistors.
>> >
>> > As usual, should anyone destroy their W1 through making these changes,
>> > you are on your own.
>> >
>> > Jack K8ZOA
>> > www.cliftonlaboratories.com
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Doug Joyce wrote:
>> >> Dave / Ken:
>> >>
>> >> Further to the attached:
>> >>
>> >> Gary provided the info on the Red LED as "the Digi-key part# is
>> >> 516-1281-ND & the Mfg is Avago Tech part # HLMP-S100."
>> >> This part is listed in the Digi-Key T091 (Jan - Apr 2009) catalogue,
>> >> page 2615. The same section also lists two green LEDs, the brighter
>> >> is Digi-Key part # 516-1285-ND (Avago part # HLMP-S501).
>> >> Interestingly enough the T081 catalogue (page 2455) also listed a
>> >> "yellow" from the same series as Digi-Key part # 516-1284-ND (Avago
>> >> part # HLMP-S301), but when I tried to get a quote, the minimum order
>> >> qty was over 5000 units. Orange is also made by Avago as part #
>> >> HLMP-S401 (same Digi-Key part No.) with a minimum order qty of 3,000
>> >> units. So green seems to be the only other LED from the same Avago
>> >> family available in reasonable quantities. (The Mouser part numbers
>> >> for the Avago Tech LEDs are 630-HLMP-Sxxx etc)
>> >>
>> >> For the "red" LED Luminous intensity is given as 7.5 mcd @ 20 ma with
>> >> a fwd voltage drop of 1.8 volts; however for the "green" (S501) the
>> >> specs are 8 mcd @ 20 ma with a fwd voltage drop of 2.2 volts. I
>> >> suspect that this 0.4 volt difference may be the cause of the
>> >> difference in intensity when installed in the W1.
>> >> As for yellow and orange / amber LEDs from an alternate supplier, the
>> >> same T091 catalogue, page 2557 shows LEDs from Lumex.
>> >> "Yellow" is Digi-Key part # 67-1050-ND (Lumex part # SSL-LX2573-YD).
>> >> Fwd voltage drop of 2.1V & luminosity of 10 mcd; and
>> >> "Amber" is Digi-Key part # 67-1045-ND (Lumex part # SSL-LX-2573-AD).
>> >> Fwd voltage drop of 2.0 & luminosity of 5 mcd
>> >> (The Mouser part numbers for the Lumex LEDs are 696-SSL-LX2573xxx
> etc).
>> >>
>> >> I ordered a qty of
>> >> 526-1285-ND (HLMP-S501) , green from Avago and
>> >> 67-1050-ND (SSL-LX2573-YD), yellow from Lumex and
>> >> 67-1045-ND (SSL-LX2573-AD), amber from Lumex
>> >>
>> >> Connected to a 12V supply with a resistor to limit the current to 20
>> >> ma, the intensity seems to be similar in all LEDs (including the
>> >> original red one). When installed in the W1 however, it's a
>> >> different story. (See my comment in the email below.) All of the
>> >> other colours are significantly less bright than the original "red"
> ones.
>> >>
>> >> Perhaps someone who has worked with the PIC microcontroller might be
>> >> able to suggest a solution.
>> >>
>> >> 73
>> >>
>> >> Doug, VE3MV
>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> *From:* Doug Joyce <mailto:[hidden email]>
>> >> *To:* Dave Van Wallaghen <mailto:[hidden email]>
>> >> *Sent:* Friday, February 20, 2009 9:11 AM
>> >> *Subject:* Leds for W1
>> >>
>> >> Dave: I'm not sure the email I cc'd you on earlier got sent, so
>> >> here is a resend.
>> >> Ken / Dave: Just to let you know, I did this with equivalent
> /
>> >> the same parts (I'll provide the part numbers I used later this
>> >> AM) and at 20 ma fwd current they do indeed seem to all have
>> >> equivalent brightness. The problem I found is that when installed
>> >> in the W1, they don't light up with the same intensity as the red
>> >> ones supplied. I used other colours of green, yellow and amber /
>> >> orange.
>> >> I haven't spent a lot of time to investigate, but what I
>> >> found so
>> >> far is that the fwd voltage drop on the red LEDs is smaller than
>> >> on the other colours, and in the W1 cct it is a smaller percentage
>> >> of the supply voltage of 5 volts. This results in more fwd
>> >> current that available for the red compared to the other colours,
>> >> hence the red appears to be brighter. The next step I need to do
>> >> is to actually measure the current provided by the W1 for these
>> >> other colours.
>> >> I got 10 of each when I ordered then from DigiKey - Dave, if
>> >> you
>> >> provide your mailing address, I'll send you a couple of each and
>> >> you can try then in the W1 as well.
>> >> 73
>> >> Doug, VE3MV
>> >>
>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> *From:* Ken Kopp <mailto:[hidden email]>
>> >> *To:* [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]> ; Doug
>> >> Joyce <mailto:[hidden email]> ; [hidden email]
>> >> <mailto:[hidden email]>
>> >> *Sent:* Thursday, February 19, 2009 10:52 PM
>> >> *Subject:* Re: [Elecraft] W1 LED Part Numbers
>> >>
>> >> I have a "set" of additional green and yellow LED's
>> >> from Scott at Aptos. He got them for me from the
>> >> stock bins and didn't include their stock numbers.
>> >> I'll light them with a PS and see if their all the
> same
>> >> brightness and take a photo.
>> >> They -should- be the same product line and therefore
>> >> light equally, I'd think. They're from the KAT-100
>> >> tuner.
>> >> Scott was at least receptive to making all the W1
>> >> kits with three colors of LED's.
>> >> 73! Ken
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> I am using the free version of SPAMfighter.
> We are a community of 6 million users fighting spam.
> SPAMfighter has removed 1012 of my spam emails to date.
> Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len
>
> The Professional version does not have this message
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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Dave Van Wallaghen

Re: Leds for W1

In reply to this post by Bill Johnson-9

Good Morning Bill,

There has been a lot of back and forth on this, so let me share the
direction I'm going to take on this.

I ordered red, yellow and green LED's made by Luxen that all have very
similar specs. My guess is that they will be significantly less bright
than the existing red LED's and that we would have to play with a
resistor pack value that would provide the happy medium of brightness
and current draw (and not stressing the LM78L05 as Jack has pointed out).

Doug has already experimented a little with this and found 470 ohms gave
him the brightness he desired. At this point, I'm not sure what the
current draw would be or if that is feasible with the LM78L05.

I believe that I might be able to come up with the right combination of
LED's and resistor packs to obtain a decent level of brightness with
uniformity between the LED's without compromising the design with an
exorbitant current draw.

As I said yesterday, I will take current measurements before I start and
make comparisons during the experimentation, hopefully arriving at a
state that provides the happy medium discussed above. I should have most
of the parts in here sometime early next week.

My desire is to have the least impact possible on the W1 design and
minimize the impact on the builder as well. And hopefully we can provide
this solution to new as well as existing units.

Then again, I may be all wet here ;-) I guess the worst case is that I
have to buy another W1 from Elecraft ;-)

73,
Dave W8FGU

Bill Johnson wrote:

> It seems we need to find a set of colored LED's that give similar output as
> the reds.... With the research done so far, doesn't look at that likely. I
> wonder if there are other resources. I wonder if a resistor pack of a
> slightly higher value than 470 might be a better compromise and change the
> value of the SWR reds so they won't draw more than the others. This would
> help reduce power draw.
>
>
> 73,
>
> Bill
> K9YEQ
> K2 #35; KX1 #35; K3 #1744; mini mods
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Doug Joyce [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 9:40 PM
> To: Bill Johnson; 'Dave Van Wallaghen'; 'Jack Smith'
> Cc: [hidden email]; 'Ken Kopp'
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Leds for W1
>
> Bill: I've done some further testing and believe it's going to take
> increasing the current to approx 6 to 7 ma to get the new coloured LEDs to
> be bright enough. That would involve reducing the 2.2 Ks to approx 470 ohms
> and finding a source for a suitable resistor pack. At this higher current
> the red LEDs are still brighter than the other colours and there is no easy
> way to separately control the current to individual colours.
>
> There are also a number of other things to check such as the ability of the
> U3 regulator to handle the increased current. Battery life will also be
> reduced and perhaps this "coloured version" needs to be run from a wall
> wart.
>
> 73
>
> Doug, VE3MV
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
>
> The Professional version does not have this message
>
>
>
>
>

Doug Joyce

Re: Leds for W1

In reply to this post by Doug Joyce

Tom: Most of this has already been covered to some degree, but let me try
to summarize.

I got from Digi-Key some of the green LEDs from the same mfr (Avago) as the
red ones provided with the W1 kit. Yellow and amber / orange are also mf'd
by Avago but are not available in reasonable quantities (min order of over
3000 each), so I got some yellow and amber mf'd by Lumex with similar
characteristics. (part numbers etc are in one of my prior posts).

I installed green for D16, D17 & D18 (SWR of 1.1, 1.2 &1.3), yellow for D19
& D20 (SWR of 1.5 & 1.7) and amber for D21 (SWR of 2.0). When installed on
the W1, all of the new colours are significantly dimmer than the red -
depending on ambient lighting level ranging from very dim to visible. In
the W1, the current in the LEDs is approx 1.5 ma per LED (calculated as
[5V - 2V (the voltage drop across the LED)] / 2k) and it is switched on and
off to each pair of LEDs by the microprocessor and back and forth from POWER
and SWR by Q3 & Q4 (2N7000s).

Using some of the extra LEDs, I hooked up one each of red, green, yellow and
amber to a power supply set for 3 volts with a resistor substitution box and
found that at 1.5 ma the brightness was as when installed in the W1. To get
the brightness of the new colours up to a reasonable level took approx 6 to
7 ma and the red ones continued to be brighter than the other colours.
(Note that the Luminous Intensity for the Avago LEDs is spec'd at a fwd
current of 20 ma and this design is using fwd currents significantly less
than that. (Lumex devices have similar spec's).

The solution seems to be to reduce the value used for the resistor pack
keeping in mind that the "reds" will always be brighter than the other
colours because of the different fwd current vs luminosity curves for the
different colours at this low current. With the given circuit layout, it is
not possible to use different value resistors for each colour of LED because
they are driven in pairs and then switched back and forth from POWER to SWR
by Q3 & Q4. Note that RP2A serves to provide the current for both D6 (FWD
Pwr of 1.5W) and D16 (SWR of 1.1:1) and so on.

I'm going to continue looking for a different value of resistor pack to
increase the visibility of the new colours without compromising the other
aspects of the design - power dissipation in U3, battery life etc.

Hope this helps.

73

Doug, VE3MV

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom McCulloch" <[hidden email]>
To: "Doug Joyce" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2009 8:41 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Leds for W1

> I'm in the process of building the W1 and have substituted the colored
LED's

> on the SWR readout as has been discussed.
>
> I really haven't been following this thread closely and I haven't finished
> the W1 build yet so this may have already been covered.
>
> I include myself when I say that it seems that everyone seems to be
> replacing SOME of the red LED's with the green, amber and yellow jobbies.
> And we seem to be using the red LEDs that came with the W1.
>
> Has anyone replaced ALL of the LEDs, including the RED ones. Wouldn't

using
> all now LED's from the same manufacturer, and specs give the desired
results

> of consistent brightness?
>
> Again, I didn't do this because I wasn't aware of the issue when started,
> but the LEDs I got from Mouser were relatively inexpensive (about $0.15
> each) so this might have been an easier fix.
>
> Perhaps this had previously been covered.
>
> Just a thought
>
> Tom
> WB2QDG
> K2 1103
>

Bill Johnson-9

Re: Leds for W1

Is there a red LED with similar characteristics to the other colors so that
increasing the current will not result in the increase in red output
relative to the rest?
I brought all current contributors into the address in the event we move off
list. I am also collecting into a single file by filtering my mail.

73,

Bill
K9YEQ

-----Original Message-----
Tom: Most of this has already been covered to some degree, but let me try
to summarize.

I got from Digi-Key some of the green LEDs from the same mfr (Avago) as the
red ones provided with the W1 kit. Yellow and amber / orange are also mf'd
by Avago but are not available in reasonable quantities (min order of over
3000 each), so I got some yellow and amber mf'd by Lumex with similar
characteristics. (part numbers etc are in one of my prior posts).

I installed green for D16, D17 & D18 (SWR of 1.1, 1.2 &1.3), yellow for D19
& D20 (SWR of 1.5 & 1.7) and amber for D21 (SWR of 2.0). When installed on
the W1, all of the new colours are significantly dimmer than the red -
depending on ambient lighting level ranging from very dim to visible. In
the W1, the current in the LEDs is approx 1.5 ma per LED (calculated as
[5V - 2V (the voltage drop across the LED)] / 2k) and it is switched on and
off to each pair of LEDs by the microprocessor and back and forth from POWER
and SWR by Q3 & Q4 (2N7000s).

Using some of the extra LEDs, I hooked up one each of red, green, yellow and
amber to a power supply set for 3 volts with a resistor substitution box and
found that at 1.5 ma the brightness was as when installed in the W1. To get
the brightness of the new colours up to a reasonable level took approx 6 to
7 ma and the red ones continued to be brighter than the other colours.
(Note that the Luminous Intensity for the Avago LEDs is spec'd at a fwd
current of 20 ma and this design is using fwd currents significantly less
than that. (Lumex devices have similar spec's).

The solution seems to be to reduce the value used for the resistor pack
keeping in mind that the "reds" will always be brighter than the other
colours because of the different fwd current vs luminosity curves for the
different colours at this low current. With the given circuit layout, it is
not possible to use different value resistors for each colour of LED because
they are driven in pairs and then switched back and forth from POWER to SWR
by Q3 & Q4. Note that RP2A serves to provide the current for both D6 (FWD
Pwr of 1.5W) and D16 (SWR of 1.1:1) and so on.

I'm going to continue looking for a different value of resistor pack to
increase the visibility of the new colours without compromising the other
aspects of the design - power dissipation in U3, battery life etc.

Hope this helps.
73
Doug, VE3MV

----- Original Message -----
> I'm in the process of building the W1 and have substituted the colored
LED's

using
> all now LED's from the same manufacturer, and specs give the desired
results

Bill Johnson-9

Re: Leds for W1

In reply to this post by Dave Van Wallaghen

Doug, Perhaps we should all by additional units just for experimenting. A
bit of fun, don't you think?

73,

Bill
K9YEQ

-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Van Wallaghen [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2009 8:53 AM
To: Bill Johnson
Cc: 'Doug Joyce'; 'Jack Smith'; [hidden email]; 'Ken Kopp'
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Leds for W1

Good Morning Bill,

There has been a lot of back and forth on this, so let me share the
direction I'm going to take on this.

I ordered red, yellow and green LED's made by Luxen that all have very
similar specs. My guess is that they will be significantly less bright
than the existing red LED's and that we would have to play with a
resistor pack value that would provide the happy medium of brightness
and current draw (and not stressing the LM78L05 as Jack has pointed out).

Doug has already experimented a little with this and found 470 ohms gave
him the brightness he desired. At this point, I'm not sure what the
current draw would be or if that is feasible with the LM78L05.

I believe that I might be able to come up with the right combination of
LED's and resistor packs to obtain a decent level of brightness with
uniformity between the LED's without compromising the design with an
exorbitant current draw.

As I said yesterday, I will take current measurements before I start and
make comparisons during the experimentation, hopefully arriving at a
state that provides the happy medium discussed above. I should have most
of the parts in here sometime early next week.

My desire is to have the least impact possible on the W1 design and
minimize the impact on the builder as well. And hopefully we can provide
this solution to new as well as existing units.

Then again, I may be all wet here ;-) I guess the worst case is that I
have to buy another W1 from Elecraft ;-)

73,
Dave W8FGU

Bill Johnson wrote:
> It seems we need to find a set of colored LED's that give similar output
as
> the reds.... With the research done so far, doesn't look at that likely.
I

> wonder if there are other resources. I wonder if a resistor pack of a
> slightly higher value than 470 might be a better compromise and change the
> value of the SWR reds so they won't draw more than the others. This would
> help reduce power draw.
>
>
> 73,
>
> Bill
> K9YEQ
> K2 #35; KX1 #35; K3 #1744; mini mods
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Doug Joyce [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 9:40 PM
> To: Bill Johnson; 'Dave Van Wallaghen'; 'Jack Smith'
> Cc: [hidden email]; 'Ken Kopp'
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Leds for W1
>
> Bill: I've done some further testing and believe it's going to take
> increasing the current to approx 6 to 7 ma to get the new coloured LEDs to
> be bright enough. That would involve reducing the 2.2 Ks to approx 470

ohms
> and finding a source for a suitable resistor pack. At this higher current
> the red LEDs are still brighter than the other colours and there is no
easy
> way to separately control the current to individual colours.
>
> There are also a number of other things to check such as the ability of
the

> U3 regulator to handle the increased current. Battery life will also be
> reduced and perhaps this "coloured version" needs to be run from a wall
> wart.
>
> 73
>
> Doug, VE3MV
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
>
> The Professional version does not have this message
>
>
>
>
>

Dave Van Wallaghen

The W1 LED Experiment

In reply to this post by Dave Van Wallaghen

I apologize for taking so long to conduct the LED experiment and get
back with everyone interested. I had some lead times on parts I ordered
not to mention getting some time to run everything through. I must
mention first that I had to do numerous swaps of different LEDs and
resistor packs and this simply would not have been possible to do in a
timely manner without using my new Hakko 808 desoldering tool. I'm sure
I would have damaged the W1 PCB trying to do it manually over and over
again. That thing was worth every penny I paid for it.

In the end, as others have pointed out here, even though I used LEDs
with similar specs as used in the existing W1 design, there are vast
differences in brightness when placed side by side with each other. I
was looking for the right combination of LEDs and resistor packs to
obtain a good level of illumination as well as balanced brightness among
all of the LEDs and keep the current consumption as low as possible. All
of the LED part numbers and current measurements will be listed at the
end of this message.

I did order the Avago LED from Digi-Key specified by Elecraft just to
make sure the it was in fact the same and it was indeed the same LED
used in the current W1. Despite the spec sheet, it is much brighter than
any of the other LEDs I tested. Anyway, I went down the same road that
Doug Joyce did and ordered a green, yellow and red set of similar LEDs
from Lumex. I then ordered a number of different resistor packs to
replace RP1 & RP1 with values of 2.0k, 1.0k and 470. These LEDs were
much too dim with the existing 2.0k resistor packs installed.

I did manage to come up with the combination Lumes LEDs and 1.0k
resistor packs that satisfied my requirements. They are still a bit
dimmer than the existing red LEDs but when placed side by side, I could
not really see that much of a difference with my eyes. I did drop the
resistor packs down to 470 ohm and they were certainly bright enough,
but the current consumption increased by more than double of the
designed consumption.

Still somewhat confused, I did manage to find similarly spec'd Avago
LEDs from Mouser that had part numbers similar to the red ones used in
the W1. So I ordered those and installed them (along with the original
2.0k resistor packs) and much to my dismay, the green and yellow LEDs
were much dimmer than the red.

My test setup consisted of using my K2 into a coiled wire antenna to get
a > 5:1 SWR when putting 1 watt into it through the W1. This got 18 of
the 20 LEDs lit (trying for all 20 often switched the W1 up to the next
power scale). I used a 13.5v bench supply and put a DMM in line to
measure the current consumption during each iteration.

The slight differences in forward voltages of the various LEDs played no
appreciable role in current consumption. So I'll just list the 3
resistor pack values I used. I did look up the LM78L05 regulator spec
sheet and found out it will produce up to 100ma output current. The
current W1 design operates at far less than that. The LEDs are probably
pulse width modulated (or simply polled) by the PIC also so the current
draw per LED seems to be about half of what you would calculate with a
voltage of around 3v and the resistor pack value.

Here is some of the data:

W1 idle current: 13.8 ma

Current draw regardless of LED type per resistor pack value (18 out of
20 LEDs lit):

2.0k - 27.5ma
1.0k - 39.3ma
470 - 63.0ma

I wanted to try an 810 or 680 ohm resistor pack, but could not get them
in time from Digi-Key. As I personally wanted to stay within the 50ma
range, the 1.0k value works for me. Like I said, to my eyes in a well
lit environment, this value seemed to work fine with the Lumex LEDs
although the Avago red LEDs were a hair brighter.

Part numbers:
My configuration:

All Digi-Key part #'s

Lumex Red 2x5mm LED - 67-1047-ND
Lumex Yellow 2x5mm LED - 67-1050-ND
Lumex Green 2x5mm LED - 67-1046-ND

1k resistor pak 10 pin - 770-103-R1KP-ND

Other values tried:
1.5k resistor pak 10 pin - 770-103-R1.5KP-ND
1.2k resistor pak 10 pin - 770-103-R1.2KP-ND
470 ohm resistor pack 10 pin - 770-103-R470P-ND

Avago red LED used in W1 - 516-1281-ND

Avago green and yellow LED's - Mouser Part #'s:
Avago Green 2.5mm LED - 630-HLMP-S501
Avago Yellow 2.5mm LED - 630-HLMP-S301

I hope this helps anyone looking to put a colored SWR scale on their W1.
This is certainly not a sanctioned change by Elecraft, in fact, I don't
know if anyone has even talked to them about it. So all of the usual
disclaimers about destroying your equipment apply ;-)

73,
Dave W8FGU

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Joel Curneal

Re: The W1 LED Experiment

Has anyone else tried high intensity leds in their W1? I replaced the leds
in my W1 with high intensity red, yellow (amber), and green leds from
Sparkfun Electronics. A pic can drive them to a much higher light output
without any other changes to the W1 circuit board. The light output from
the different colors is almost the same on a stock W1 board.

Joel, N1JEO

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Van Wallaghen" <[hidden email]>
To: "Bill Johnson" <[hidden email]>
Cc: "'Jack Smith'" <[hidden email]>; "'Ken Kopp'"
<[hidden email]>; <[hidden email]>
Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2009 2:51 PM
Subject: [Elecraft] [MM] The W1 LED Experiment

> I apologize for taking so long to conduct the LED experiment and get
> back with everyone interested. I had some lead times on parts I ordered
> not to mention getting some time to run everything through. I must
> mention first that I had to do numerous swaps of different LEDs and
> resistor packs and this simply would not have been possible to do in a
> timely manner without using my new Hakko 808 desoldering tool. I'm sure
> I would have damaged the W1 PCB trying to do it manually over and over
> again. That thing was worth every penny I paid for it.
>
> In the end, as others have pointed out here, even though I used LEDs
> with similar specs as used in the existing W1 design, there are vast
> differences in brightness when placed side by side with each other. I
> was looking for the right combination of LEDs and resistor packs to
> obtain a good level of illumination as well as balanced brightness among
> all of the LEDs and keep the current consumption as low as possible. All
> of the LED part numbers and current measurements will be listed at the
> end of this message.
>
> I did order the Avago LED from Digi-Key specified by Elecraft just to
> make sure the it was in fact the same and it was indeed the same LED
> used in the current W1. Despite the spec sheet, it is much brighter than
> any of the other LEDs I tested. Anyway, I went down the same road that
> Doug Joyce did and ordered a green, yellow and red set of similar LEDs
> from Lumex. I then ordered a number of different resistor packs to
> replace RP1 & RP1 with values of 2.0k, 1.0k and 470. These LEDs were
> much too dim with the existing 2.0k resistor packs installed.
>
> I did manage to come up with the combination Lumes LEDs and 1.0k
> resistor packs that satisfied my requirements. They are still a bit
> dimmer than the existing red LEDs but when placed side by side, I could
> not really see that much of a difference with my eyes. I did drop the
> resistor packs down to 470 ohm and they were certainly bright enough,
> but the current consumption increased by more than double of the
> designed consumption.
>
> Still somewhat confused, I did manage to find similarly spec'd Avago
> LEDs from Mouser that had part numbers similar to the red ones used in
> the W1. So I ordered those and installed them (along with the original
> 2.0k resistor packs) and much to my dismay, the green and yellow LEDs
> were much dimmer than the red.
>
> My test setup consisted of using my K2 into a coiled wire antenna to get
> a > 5:1 SWR when putting 1 watt into it through the W1. This got 18 of
> the 20 LEDs lit (trying for all 20 often switched the W1 up to the next
> power scale). I used a 13.5v bench supply and put a DMM in line to
> measure the current consumption during each iteration.
>
> The slight differences in forward voltages of the various LEDs played no
> appreciable role in current consumption. So I'll just list the 3
> resistor pack values I used. I did look up the LM78L05 regulator spec
> sheet and found out it will produce up to 100ma output current. The
> current W1 design operates at far less than that. The LEDs are probably
> pulse width modulated (or simply polled) by the PIC also so the current
> draw per LED seems to be about half of what you would calculate with a
> voltage of around 3v and the resistor pack value.
>
> Here is some of the data:
>
> W1 idle current: 13.8 ma
>
> Current draw regardless of LED type per resistor pack value (18 out of
> 20 LEDs lit):
>
> 2.0k - 27.5ma
> 1.0k - 39.3ma
> 470 - 63.0ma
>
> I wanted to try an 810 or 680 ohm resistor pack, but could not get them
> in time from Digi-Key. As I personally wanted to stay within the 50ma
> range, the 1.0k value works for me. Like I said, to my eyes in a well
> lit environment, this value seemed to work fine with the Lumex LEDs
> although the Avago red LEDs were a hair brighter.
>
> Part numbers:
> My configuration:
>
> All Digi-Key part #'s
>
> Lumex Red 2x5mm LED - 67-1047-ND
> Lumex Yellow 2x5mm LED - 67-1050-ND
> Lumex Green 2x5mm LED - 67-1046-ND
>
> 1k resistor pak 10 pin - 770-103-R1KP-ND
>
> Other values tried:
> 1.5k resistor pak 10 pin - 770-103-R1.5KP-ND
> 1.2k resistor pak 10 pin - 770-103-R1.2KP-ND
> 470 ohm resistor pack 10 pin - 770-103-R470P-ND
>
> Avago red LED used in W1 - 516-1281-ND
>
> Avago green and yellow LED's - Mouser Part #'s:
> Avago Green 2.5mm LED - 630-HLMP-S501
> Avago Yellow 2.5mm LED - 630-HLMP-S301
>
> I hope this helps anyone looking to put a colored SWR scale on their W1.
> This is certainly not a sanctioned change by Elecraft, in fact, I don't
> know if anyone has even talked to them about it. So all of the usual
> disclaimers about destroying your equipment apply ;-)
>
> 73,
> Dave W8FGU
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Dave Van Wallaghen

Re: The W1 LED Experiment

Hi Joel,

That sounds like just what we're looking for. I found the hi-intensity
leds only in red from Digi-Key and Mouser. Nothing in green or yellow.
And if we can leave the 2.0k resistor packs in there, that's even better.

Thanks for the tip.

73,
Dave W8FGU

Joel Curneal wrote:

> Has anyone else tried high intensity leds in their W1? I replaced the leds
> in my W1 with high intensity red, yellow (amber), and green leds from
> Sparkfun Electronics. A pic can drive them to a much higher light output
> without any other changes to the W1 circuit board. The light output from
> the different colors is almost the same on a stock W1 board.
>
> Joel, N1JEO
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dave Van Wallaghen" <[hidden email]>
> To: "Bill Johnson" <[hidden email]>
> Cc: "'Jack Smith'" <[hidden email]>; "'Ken Kopp'"
> <[hidden email]>; <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2009 2:51 PM
> Subject: [Elecraft] [MM] The W1 LED Experiment
>
>
>> I apologize for taking so long to conduct the LED experiment and get
>> back with everyone interested. I had some lead times on parts I ordered
>> not to mention getting some time to run everything through. I must
>> mention first that I had to do numerous swaps of different LEDs and
>> resistor packs and this simply would not have been possible to do in a
>> timely manner without using my new Hakko 808 desoldering tool. I'm sure
>> I would have damaged the W1 PCB trying to do it manually over and over
>> again. That thing was worth every penny I paid for it.
>>
>> In the end, as others have pointed out here, even though I used LEDs
>> with similar specs as used in the existing W1 design, there are vast
>> differences in brightness when placed side by side with each other. I
>> was looking for the right combination of LEDs and resistor packs to
>> obtain a good level of illumination as well as balanced brightness among
>> all of the LEDs and keep the current consumption as low as possible. All
>> of the LED part numbers and current measurements will be listed at the
>> end of this message.
>>
>> I did order the Avago LED from Digi-Key specified by Elecraft just to
>> make sure the it was in fact the same and it was indeed the same LED
>> used in the current W1. Despite the spec sheet, it is much brighter than
>> any of the other LEDs I tested. Anyway, I went down the same road that
>> Doug Joyce did and ordered a green, yellow and red set of similar LEDs
>> from Lumex. I then ordered a number of different resistor packs to
>> replace RP1 & RP1 with values of 2.0k, 1.0k and 470. These LEDs were
>> much too dim with the existing 2.0k resistor packs installed.
>>
>> I did manage to come up with the combination Lumes LEDs and 1.0k
>> resistor packs that satisfied my requirements. They are still a bit
>> dimmer than the existing red LEDs but when placed side by side, I could
>> not really see that much of a difference with my eyes. I did drop the
>> resistor packs down to 470 ohm and they were certainly bright enough,
>> but the current consumption increased by more than double of the
>> designed consumption.
>>
>> Still somewhat confused, I did manage to find similarly spec'd Avago
>> LEDs from Mouser that had part numbers similar to the red ones used in
>> the W1. So I ordered those and installed them (along with the original
>> 2.0k resistor packs) and much to my dismay, the green and yellow LEDs
>> were much dimmer than the red.
>>
>> My test setup consisted of using my K2 into a coiled wire antenna to get
>> a > 5:1 SWR when putting 1 watt into it through the W1. This got 18 of
>> the 20 LEDs lit (trying for all 20 often switched the W1 up to the next
>> power scale). I used a 13.5v bench supply and put a DMM in line to
>> measure the current consumption during each iteration.
>>
>> The slight differences in forward voltages of the various LEDs played no
>> appreciable role in current consumption. So I'll just list the 3
>> resistor pack values I used. I did look up the LM78L05 regulator spec
>> sheet and found out it will produce up to 100ma output current. The
>> current W1 design operates at far less than that. The LEDs are probably
>> pulse width modulated (or simply polled) by the PIC also so the current
>> draw per LED seems to be about half of what you would calculate with a
>> voltage of around 3v and the resistor pack value.
>>
>> Here is some of the data:
>>
>> W1 idle current: 13.8 ma
>>
>> Current draw regardless of LED type per resistor pack value (18 out of
>> 20 LEDs lit):
>>
>> 2.0k - 27.5ma
>> 1.0k - 39.3ma
>> 470 - 63.0ma
>>
>> I wanted to try an 810 or 680 ohm resistor pack, but could not get them
>> in time from Digi-Key. As I personally wanted to stay within the 50ma
>> range, the 1.0k value works for me. Like I said, to my eyes in a well
>> lit environment, this value seemed to work fine with the Lumex LEDs
>> although the Avago red LEDs were a hair brighter.
>>
>> Part numbers:
>> My configuration:
>>
>> All Digi-Key part #'s
>>
>> Lumex Red 2x5mm LED - 67-1047-ND
>> Lumex Yellow 2x5mm LED - 67-1050-ND
>> Lumex Green 2x5mm LED - 67-1046-ND
>>
>> 1k resistor pak 10 pin - 770-103-R1KP-ND
>>
>> Other values tried:
>> 1.5k resistor pak 10 pin - 770-103-R1.5KP-ND
>> 1.2k resistor pak 10 pin - 770-103-R1.2KP-ND
>> 470 ohm resistor pack 10 pin - 770-103-R470P-ND
>>
>> Avago red LED used in W1 - 516-1281-ND
>>
>> Avago green and yellow LED's - Mouser Part #'s:
>> Avago Green 2.5mm LED - 630-HLMP-S501
>> Avago Yellow 2.5mm LED - 630-HLMP-S301
>>
>> I hope this helps anyone looking to put a colored SWR scale on their W1.
>> This is certainly not a sanctioned change by Elecraft, in fact, I don't
>> know if anyone has even talked to them about it. So all of the usual
>> disclaimers about destroying your equipment apply ;-)
>>
>> 73,
>> Dave W8FGU
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
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>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
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>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
>

Bill Johnson-9

Re: The W1 LED Experiment

In reply to this post by Joel Curneal

Joel,

Do you have the part #'s as I note there are a couple different in each
color? I note these are round versions and I wonder if these are difficult
to line up in the display due to any manufacturing differences. Do you have
a Picture of your finished product?

73,

Bill
K9YEQ
K2 #35; KX1 #35; K3 #1744; mini mods

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Joel Curneal
Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2009 4:22 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [MM] The W1 LED Experiment

Has anyone else tried high intensity leds in their W1? I replaced the leds
in my W1 with high intensity red, yellow (amber), and green leds from
Sparkfun Electronics. A pic can drive them to a much higher light output
without any other changes to the W1 circuit board. The light output from
the different colors is almost the same on a stock W1 board.

Joel, N1JEO

----- Original Message -----

Joel Curneal

Re: The W1 LED Experiment

The p/ns for the leds that I used from www.sparkfun.com are
Red -- COM-00528
Yellow -- COM-00530 ( it lights up as amber )
Green -- Com-08285

These are T-13/4 round leds. They do fit in the spaces provided although
they do cover up part of the the silkscreened SWR values. I filed off some
of the flanges so more of the silkscreened SWR values show. I did not
change the power leds.

I used 3 green ones ( 1.1, 1.2, 1.3 ), 2 yellow ones ( 1.5, 1.7 ) and 5 red
ones.

I do not have any pictures, I am in the process of moving and much of my
stuff is packed up. I will get the W1 out and take a couple of pictures as
soon as I can.

Joel N1JEO

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Johnson" <[hidden email]>
To: "'Joel Curneal'" <[hidden email]>; <[hidden email]>
Sent: Sunday, March 08, 2009 1:23 PM
Subject: RE: [Elecraft] [MM] The W1 LED Experiment

> Joel,
>
> Do you have the part #'s as I note there are a couple different in each
> color? I note these are round versions and I wonder if these are
difficult
> to line up in the display due to any manufacturing differences. Do you
have

> a Picture of your finished product?
>
> 73,
>
> Bill
> K9YEQ
> K2 #35; KX1 #35; K3 #1744; mini mods
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Joel Curneal
> Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2009 4:22 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [MM] The W1 LED Experiment
>
> Has anyone else tried high intensity leds in their W1? I replaced the

leds

> in my W1 with high intensity red, yellow (amber), and green leds from
> Sparkfun Electronics. A pic can drive them to a much higher light output
> without any other changes to the W1 circuit board. The light output from
> the different colors is almost the same on a stock W1 board.
>
> Joel, N1JEO
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
>
> > I apologize for taking so long to conduct the LED experiment and get
> > back with everyone interested. I had some lead times on parts I ordered
> > not to mention getting some time to run everything through. I must
> > mention first that I had to do numerous swaps of different LEDs and
> > resistor packs and this simply would not have been possible to do in a
> > timely manner without using my new Hakko 808 desoldering tool. I'm sure
> > I would have damaged the W1 PCB trying to do it manually over and over
> > again. That thing was worth every penny I paid for it.
> >
> > The slight differences in forward voltages of the various LEDs played no
> > appreciable role in current consumption. So I'll just list the 3
> > resistor pack values I used. I did look up the LM78L05 regulator spec
> > sheet and found out it will produce up to 100ma output current. The
> > current W1 design operates at far less than that. The LEDs are probably
> > pulse width modulated (or simply polled) by the PIC also so the current
> > draw per LED seems to be about half of what you would calculate with a
> > voltage of around 3v and the resistor pack value.
> >
> > Here is some of the data:
> >
> > W1 idle current: 13.8 ma
> >
> > Current draw regardless of LED type per resistor pack value (18 out of
> > 20 LEDs lit):
> >
> > 2.0k - 27.5ma
> > 1.0k - 39.3ma
> > 470 - 63.0ma
> >
> > I wanted to try an 810 or 680 ohm resistor pack, but could not get them
> > in time from Digi-Key. As I personally wanted to stay within the 50ma
> > range, the 1.0k value works for me. Like I said, to my eyes in a well
> > lit environment, this value seemed to work fine with the Lumex LEDs
> > although the Avago red LEDs were a hair brighter.
> >
> > Part numbers:
> > My configuration:
> >
> > All Digi-Key part #'s
> >
> > Lumex Red 2x5mm LED - 67-1047-ND
> > Lumex Yellow 2x5mm LED - 67-1050-ND
> > Lumex Green 2x5mm LED - 67-1046-ND
> >
> >
> >
> > 73,
> > Dave W8FGU
> >
>

Bill Johnson-9

Re: The W1 LED Experiment

Joel,

Thank you very much! Let me know when you "land" and do send photos.

73,

Bill
K9YEQ
K2 #35; KX1 #35; K3 #1744; mini mods

-----Original Message-----
From: Joel Curneal [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Sunday, March 08, 2009 3:50 PM
To: Bill Johnson; [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [MM] The W1 LED Experiment

The p/ns for the leds that I used from www.sparkfun.com are
Red -- COM-00528
Yellow -- COM-00530 ( it lights up as amber )
Green -- Com-08285

These are T-13/4 round leds. They do fit in the spaces provided although
they do cover up part of the the silkscreened SWR values. I filed off some
of the flanges so more of the silkscreened SWR values show. I did not
change the power leds.

I used 3 green ones ( 1.1, 1.2, 1.3 ), 2 yellow ones ( 1.5, 1.7 ) and 5 red
ones.

I do not have any pictures, I am in the process of moving and much of my
stuff is packed up. I will get the W1 out and take a couple of pictures as
soon as I can.

Joel N1JEO

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Johnson" <[hidden email]>
To: "'Joel Curneal'" <[hidden email]>; <[hidden email]>
Sent: Sunday, March 08, 2009 1:23 PM
Subject: RE: [Elecraft] [MM] The W1 LED Experiment

> Joel,
>
> Do you have the part #'s as I note there are a couple different in each
> color? I note these are round versions and I wonder if these are
difficult
> to line up in the display due to any manufacturing differences. Do you
have

leds