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Re: O.T.: End of (another) era

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Phil Kane-2

Re: O.T.: End of (another) era

On 7/14/2013 4:31 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote:

> Not exactly radio, but communications history. The headline reads:
>
> Telegrams STOP: End of service delivering joy and heartache

This one does involve radio, on a channel that can be received by
Elecraft equipment that has general-coverage capability:

"COAST GUARD TERMINATION OF ITS 2 MHZ DISTRESS WATCHKEEPING SERVICE

"Effective 01 August, 2013, the U. S. Coast Guard will terminate its
radio guard of the international voice distress, safety and calling
frequency 2182 kHz and the international digital selective calling (DSC)
distress and safety frequency 2187.5 kHz. Additionally, marine
information and weather broadcasts transmitted on 2670 kHz will
terminate concurrently."

First 500 kc, now this, what's next - VHF Channel 16?

73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
Elecraft K2/100 s/n 5402
T2-00000208

From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon
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Richard Fjeld

Re: O.T.: End of (another) era

Many years ago a friend and co-worker, now SK, had a qso with an
Egyptian who was going to be in our city (then) on business so they
arranged a meeting for coffee, and I was invited. He told of one
country in that region where messages were by telegraph only, and a
person in the hotel would pass them to a guest by saying the dots and
dashes. (Try copying like that.) He said there were only seven hams in
Egypt at the time.

Dick, n0ce

------ Original Message ------
From: "Ron D'Eau Claire" <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: 7/14/2013 6:31:05 PM
Subject: [Elecraft] O.T.: End of (another) era

>Not exactly radio, but communications history. The headline reads:
>
>
>
>Telegrams STOP: End of service delivering joy and heartache
>
>
>
>The last telegrams are being sent in India. Story here:
>
>http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-23271384
>
>
>
>Bulbul Tewari, 73, is filling in forms to send telegrams to her four
>grandchildren, aged between seven and 14, "so that when they are older,
>they
>realise that this is the way messages were sent, once upon a time".
>
>
>
>73, Ron AC7AC
>
>______________________________________________________________

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Fred Smith-2

Re: O.T.: End of (another) era

In reply to this post by Phil Kane-2

Yes it seems CW has became or becoming a thing of the past for Military or
commercial use and only used some in this hobby. I wonder how many more
decades it will survive here also, I hope it continues for a long time.

73,
Fred/N0AZZ
K3 Ser # 6730--KX3 # 2573--K2/100 # 6470-KAT100
P3/SVGA--KPA500--KAT500--W2

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Phil Kane
Sent: Sunday, July 14, 2013 7:23 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] O.T.: End of (another) era

On 7/14/2013 4:31 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote:

> Not exactly radio, but communications history. The headline reads:
>
> Telegrams STOP: End of service delivering joy and heartache

This one does involve radio, on a channel that can be received by Elecraft
equipment that has general-coverage capability:

"COAST GUARD TERMINATION OF ITS 2 MHZ DISTRESS WATCHKEEPING SERVICE

"Effective 01 August, 2013, the U. S. Coast Guard will terminate its radio
guard of the international voice distress, safety and calling frequency 2182
kHz and the international digital selective calling (DSC) distress and
safety frequency 2187.5 kHz. Additionally, marine information and weather
broadcasts transmitted on 2670 kHz will terminate concurrently."

First 500 kc, now this, what's next - VHF Channel 16?

73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
Elecraft K2/100 s/n 5402
T2-00000208

From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon
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No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2013.0.2904 / Virus Database: 3204/6490 - Release Date: 07/14/13

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Mike Sanders

Re: O.T.: End of (another) era

In reply to this post by Phil Kane-2

I guarded 500Kc and 2182 back in the Mid 60s. Sometime about
1966 we did some VHF road testing. Brand new and we thought it
would be in use much quicker than it was.
I really do not know why people are talking about the demise of
CW in ham radio. If your listening to the bands listen to 20 SSB
and tell me the amount of traffic is not down.
All you need to do for either CW or SSB is put a rare DX entity on
the air or a contest then try to squeeze in edgewise.
I know younger hams who are working on learning the code and
other young hams who are working on getting their speed up. CW
is not dead yet. Neither is ham radio. Just like 500 and 2182 things
change and will change. Use what you have and enjoy it while you
can.
ZUT (CW Forever) #968 (1964) 73

K0AZ
Mike Sanders
EM37cd SW Missouri
www.k0az.com

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Phil Kane
Sent: Sunday, July 14, 2013 7:23 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] O.T.: End of (another) era

On 7/14/2013 4:31 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote:

> Not exactly radio, but communications history. The headline reads:
>
> Telegrams STOP: End of service delivering joy and heartache

This one does involve radio, on a channel that can be received by Elecraft
equipment that has general-coverage capability:

"COAST GUARD TERMINATION OF ITS 2 MHZ DISTRESS WATCHKEEPING SERVICE

"Effective 01 August, 2013, the U. S. Coast Guard will terminate its radio
guard of the international voice distress, safety and calling frequency 2182
kHz and the international digital selective calling (DSC) distress and
safety frequency 2187.5 kHz. Additionally, marine information and weather
broadcasts transmitted on 2670 kHz will terminate concurrently."

First 500 kc, now this, what's next - VHF Channel 16?

73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
Elecraft K2/100 s/n 5402
T2-00000208

From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon
______________________________________________________________
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Edward R Cole

Re: O.T.: End of (another) era

In reply to this post by Phil Kane-2

I'll make a prediction: CW will largely be history for ham radio
about 30-years after the date it ceased being a requirement to get a
license. That is assuming the average age of hams was 45 when they
were first licensed, they will be 75 in 30-years and quite a few no
longer on ham radio for various reasons.

Meteor scatter is no longer High Speed CW but entirely digital these
days. 2 meter eme was totally CW in 1998 when I began to build my
station. The digital mode JT44 arrived in 2003 and today CW on
2m-eme is in the same position as AM was in 1970 (maybe 5% still use
CW). It is just technology moving along. (ditto for 6m-eme)

I also predict a major move to satellite-based communications for
emergency channels (such as Marine VHF-16). Most "comms" will have
migrated to cellular or wi-fi forms by then or something we cannot
even envision at this time. Maybe the "transporter" will be standard
and airlines defunct. "Beam me up Scotty!"

Yep, I might even live long enough to see A1 become extinct. In 2043
historians will be recording the last users of this archaic
electronic language to preserve it (I will be 99).

73, Ed - KL7UW
First licensed in Nov. 1958 as KN8MWA
First station was on 40m with Ocean Hopper and DX35 (CW)

--------------
From: "Fred Smith" <[hidden email]>
To: "'Phil Kane'" <[hidden email]>, <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] O.T.: End of (another) era
Message-ID: <000201ce813a$3d9f7630$b8de6290$@com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Yes it seems CW has became or becoming a thing of the past for Military or
commercial use and only used some in this hobby. I wonder how many more
decades it will survive here also, I hope it continues for a long time.

73,
Fred/N0AZZ
K3 Ser # 6730--KX3 # 2573--K2/100 # 6470-KAT100
P3/SVGA--KPA500--KAT500--W2

73, Ed - KL7UW
http://www.kl7uw.com
[hidden email]
"Kits made by KL7UW"

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Phil Kane-2

Re: O.T.: End of (another) era

On 7/15/2013 12:48 PM, Edward R Cole wrote:

> In 2043 historians will be recording the last users of this archaic
> electronic language to preserve it (I will be 99).

From radiomarine.org: (Please indulge me...)

It's just beeps in the air. Yet on 12 July 1999 some very tough looking
grizzled old radio pioneers had tears in their eyes as the last
commercial Morse code radiogram was sent. It was the end of an era. And
as the last beeps faded away into the static they witnessed the end of
the career to which they had devoted their lives.

These men - and some women - had stood watch over the airwaves on shore
and at sea. Theirs was mostly the business of maritime commerce. But
when their ship was in peril they were called upon to send the most
electrifying three letters in radio, S O S, knowing that all their
fellow radio operators would press their earphones close to get every
scrap of information and bring aid to their stricken ship.

Once, our coasts were dotted with great Morse code radio stations, all
communicating with ships at sea. They're all gone now... all except one,
the one they called the Wireless Giant of the Pacific, located at Point
Reyes.

On that sad day in 1999 another event took place. The Maritime Radio
Historical Society (MRHS) was formed. We made it our life's work to
honor the men and women of wireless by restoring that wireless giant.
One year and one minute later the giant's voice once again spanned the
oceans as we picked up the thread and kept the faith with our colleagues
of the air.

Every year since, in an event that became known as the Night of Nights,
Morse code station KPH has returned to the air, joined by KFS and the
station of the MRHS, KSM.

[And do not forget K6KPH, running 1500 watts from turned-down 5000 W
commercial CW/RTTY transmitters!] More info at www.radiomarine.org

73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
T2-00000208 - MRHS True Believer
Elecraft K2/100 s/n 5402

From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon
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N5GE

Re: O.T.: End of (another) era

In reply to this post by Edward R Cole

BS...

73,
Tom
Amateur Radio Operator N5GE
Licensed since 1976
ARRL Lifetime Member
QCWA Lifetime Member

On Mon, 15 Jul 2013 11:48:53 -0800, Edward R Cole
<[hidden email]> wrote:

>I'll make a prediction: CW will largely be history for ham radio
>about 30-years after the date it ceased being a requirement to get a
>license. That is assuming the average age of hams was 45 when they
>were first licensed, they will be 75 in 30-years and quite a few no
>longer on ham radio for various reasons.
>

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Amateur Radio Operator N5GE

M0AFJ

Re: O.T.: End of (another) era

Good morning from this side of the pond.

People have been predicting the demise of CW for years but, certainly over here since the removal of the necessity to pass the code test to get a licence the amount of Amateurs learning the code seems to be on the increase. Certainly at the clubs around here CW lessons are well subscribed.
I wonder if our friend in Alaska is a CW op or has ever learnt it?.

Best regards, Tim Hague, M0AFJ
Skype m0afj.Tim
Sent on my iPad

On 16 Jul 2013, at 06:59, Tom H Childers <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> BS...
>
> 73,
> Tom
> Amateur Radio Operator N5GE
> Licensed since 1976
> ARRL Lifetime Member
> QCWA Lifetime Member
>
> On Mon, 15 Jul 2013 11:48:53 -0800, Edward R Cole
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> I'll make a prediction: CW will largely be history for ham radio
>> about 30-years after the date it ceased being a requirement to get a
>> license. That is assuming the average age of hams was 45 when they
>> were first licensed, they will be 75 in 30-years and quite a few no
>> longer on ham radio for various reasons.
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Richard Fjeld

Re: O.T.: End of (another) era

Well I hope not guys. I bought a keyboard and connected it to the SVGA in the P3 so I could send some perfect code for a change. It felt like I was cheating, but it sure sounds nice. The elements of the characters are perfectly spaced, as are the characters. I can log while the memories play. I can switch to the keyer at will.

Dick, n0ce
----- Original Message -----
From: Tim Hague
To: [hidden email]
Cc: Edward R Cole ; [hidden email]
Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2013 1:28 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] O.T.: End of (another) era

Good morning from this side of the pond.

People have been predicting the demise of CW for years but, certainly over here since the removal of the necessity to pass the code test to get a licence the amount of Amateurs learning the code seems to be on the increase. Certainly at the clubs around here CW lessons are well subscribed.
I wonder if our friend in Alaska is a CW op or has ever learnt it?.

Best regards, Tim Hague, M0AFJ
Skype m0afj.Tim
Sent on my iPad

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Fred Smith-2

Re: O.T.: End of (another) era

That is the only way I can do it. A close friend and a 50 yr CW op now
operates with a keyboard some of the time. Plus he uses macro's only for
90+% of all his DX CW contacts with the excellent Elecraft reader.

73,
Fred/N0AZZ
K3 Ser # 6730--KX3 # 2573--K2/100 # 6470-KAT100
P3/SVGA--KPA500--KAT500--W2

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Richard Fjeld
Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2013 1:52 AM
To: Tim Hague
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] O.T.: End of (another) era

Well I hope not guys. I bought a keyboard and connected it to the SVGA in
the P3 so I could send some perfect code for a change. It felt like I was
cheating, but it sure sounds nice. The elements of the characters are
perfectly spaced, as are the characters. I can log while the memories play.
I can switch to the keyer at will.

Dick, n0ce
----- Original Message -----
From: Tim Hague
To: [hidden email]
Cc: Edward R Cole ; [hidden email]
Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2013 1:28 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] O.T.: End of (another) era

Good morning from this side of the pond.

People have been predicting the demise of CW for years but, certainly over
here since the removal of the necessity to pass the code test to get a
licence the amount of Amateurs learning the code seems to be on the
increase. Certainly at the clubs around here CW lessons are well subscribed.
I wonder if our friend in Alaska is a CW op or has ever learnt it?.

Best regards, Tim Hague, M0AFJ
Skype m0afj.Tim
Sent on my iPad

______________________________________________________________
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No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2013.0.2904 / Virus Database: 3204/6492 - Release Date: 07/15/13

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w7aqk

Re: O.T.: End of (another) era

In reply to this post by Phil Kane-2

Hi All,

Ed may be right--it's hard to say. It also depends on what the definition
of "disappear" is, meaning I think there will always be some adventurous
souls using CW regardless of where technology takes us. By rights, I would
have thought "AM" would disappear, but it hasn't--not totally. There is
even a feeding frenzy out there for old AM gear.

But CW is a conundrum. It takes skill! That is what seems to be
disappearing from ham radio! Look at the decline in the ability of the
average ham to build his/her own gear, let alone repair it! Admittedly, the
radios we buy these days don't lend themselves to DIY repair, mainly due to
the advanced technology of things like SMD's, etc. These days, if you have
a problem, it usually means swapping out an entire board rather than
replacing a single part.

But back to CW--This is the most basic (I think) form of RF communication.
By that I mean it is the simplest form to create. You actually only need
two wires you can touch together to send it, but a paddle or key obviously
makes it much easier. It's more efficient that just about any type of voice
communication, so with just a few watts (or less) you can work the world!
The digital modes you mention are also very efficient, but I find them
ultimately boring! The computer has made everything so mechanical! JT65 is
a really slick creation, but you end up just playing a "numbers game" for
exchanges. It's gratifying for a while, but there is not much conversation
going back and forth. At least modes like PSK31 are conversational, and
maybe other modes, yet to be invented, will be that way too. It's hard to
say what we will see in the next 20 or 30 years. Technology moves at
lightening speed!

For that matter, RTTY would seem to be "old hat" as well, but it still seems
to be hanging around in strength. The computer gave RTTY a "reprieve",
since we no longer have to rely on units like the old Model 26's, or
whatever those things were that we used years ago. I can even operate RTTY
and PSK31 with my KX3, all by itself, but using CW as the input method!
Again, the simplest form of input (CW) to generate an advanced mode.

A while back some Japanese company was seriously contemplating using CW as
an input method for texting on cellphones! It would only require two or
three keys! Interesting concept, but I guess it didn't fly--at least not
now. I still think there is just possibly some merit to this however. Kids
can learn anything!!!! They text! It's the "old f**ts" that have problems.

The absence of a mandatory level of CW proficiency has clearly reduced the
level of CW activity--except in contests!!!!! Interestingly, though, now
that CW is no longer mandatory, a lot of newer hams (and some old ones too)
seem to be having some sort of epiphany about the virtues of CW, and are
voluntarily taking it up. Very interesting!!!

The bottom line is that technology is apt to change everything! It might
even substantially wipe away ham radio all together! It certainly has
distracted newcomers who now seem to be nearly totally focused on computers.
I have some serious concerns about the survival of ham radio itself, but for
now, I think the biggest threat is CC & R's! Hi.

Dave W7AQK

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M0AFJ

Re: O.T.: End of (another) era

I operate the RSGB demonstration station at Bletchley Park (GB3RS), I tend to operate mainly on CW, young people are absolutely fascinated by CW. I had one young lad left with me for 2 hours while his family went on the museum tour, all he wanted to know about was morse!.
I showed him the WEB SDR at the Uni of Twente in Holland, hopefully the spark was generated and he will be one of the new generation of CW ops...

It's a lot easier to build a 4 transistor CW transmitter than something with a modulator to accept digi modes.... ( and I do have the capability)!

Best regards, Tim Hague M0AFJ
Skype m0afj.Tim
Sent on my iPad

On 16 Jul 2013, at 14:42, "Dyarnes" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> Ed may be right--it's hard to say. It also depends on what the definition of "disappear" is, meaning I think there will always be some adventurous souls using CW regardless of where technology takes us. By rights, I would have thought "AM" would disappear, but it hasn't--not totally. There is even a feeding frenzy out there for old AM gear.
>
> But CW is a conundrum. It takes skill! That is what seems to be disappearing from ham radio! Look at the decline in the ability of the average ham to build his/her own gear, let alone repair it! Admittedly, the radios we buy these days don't lend themselves to DIY repair, mainly due to the advanced technology of things like SMD's, etc. These days, if you have a problem, it usually means swapping out an entire board rather than replacing a single part.
>
> But back to CW--This is the most basic (I think) form of RF communication. By that I mean it is the simplest form to create. You actually only need two wires you can touch together to send it, but a paddle or key obviously makes it much easier. It's more efficient that just about any type of voice communication, so with just a few watts (or less) you can work the world! The digital modes you mention are also very efficient, but I find them ultimately boring! The computer has made everything so mechanical! JT65 is a really slick creation, but you end up just playing a "numbers game" for exchanges. It's gratifying for a while, but there is not much conversation going back and forth. At least modes like PSK31 are conversational, and maybe other modes, yet to be invented, will be that way too. It's hard to say what we will see in the next 20 or 30 years. Technology moves at lightening speed!
>
> For that matter, RTTY would seem to be "old hat" as well, but it still seems to be hanging around in strength. The computer gave RTTY a "reprieve", since we no longer have to rely on units like the old Model 26's, or whatever those things were that we used years ago. I can even operate RTTY and PSK31 with my KX3, all by itself, but using CW as the input method! Again, the simplest form of input (CW) to generate an advanced mode.
>
> A while back some Japanese company was seriously contemplating using CW as an input method for texting on cellphones! It would only require two or three keys! Interesting concept, but I guess it didn't fly--at least not now. I still think there is just possibly some merit to this however. Kids can learn anything!!!! They text! It's the "old f**ts" that have problems.
>
> The absence of a mandatory level of CW proficiency has clearly reduced the level of CW activity--except in contests!!!!! Interestingly, though, now that CW is no longer mandatory, a lot of newer hams (and some old ones too) seem to be having some sort of epiphany about the virtues of CW, and are voluntarily taking it up. Very interesting!!!
>
> The bottom line is that technology is apt to change everything! It might even substantially wipe away ham radio all together! It certainly has distracted newcomers who now seem to be nearly totally focused on computers. I have some serious concerns about the survival of ham radio itself, but for now, I think the biggest threat is CC & R's! Hi.
>
> Dave W7AQK
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

EricJ-2

Re: O.T.: End of (another) era

I downloaded a Morse "keyboard" for my Galaxy Android phone. It uses the
"piano" style (side by side) paddle method. I like it because I don't
have to stare at the keyboard when I send. It's a little weird getting
used to having to tap a space key between words, but it works. A little
slow--maybe 7 wpm input--but I like it for texting.

There are a couple of them to choose from on the google store. Don't
know if there's one for the iPhone. Apple is a little slow to pick up
old technology.

Eric
KE6US

On 7/16/2013 6:54 AM, Tim Hague wrote:
> >A while back some Japanese company was seriously contemplating using CW as an input method for texting on cellphones! It would only require two or three keys! Interesting concept, but I guess it didn't fly--at least not now. I still think there is just possibly some merit to this however. Kids can learn anything!!!! They text! It's the "old f**ts" that have problems.

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Jim Low man

Re: O.T.: End of (another) era

In reply to this post by w7aqk

Hi Dave,

On 7/16/2013 6:42 AM, Dyarnes wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> But CW is a conundrum. It takes skill! That is what seems to be
> disappearing from ham radio! Look at the decline in the ability of
> the average ham to build his/her own gear, let alone repair it!
> Admittedly, the radios we buy these days don't lend themselves to DIY
> repair, mainly due to the advanced technology of things like SMD's,
> etc. These days, if you have a problem, it usually means swapping out
> an entire board rather than replacing a single part.
This is one reason that I didn't pursue electronics as a career.
Back in the early 70s I was in the Air Force, working on FAA-style air
traffic control radar systems.
One unit that I worked on was tube-based, with probably 100 or more
adjustments to keep it properly aligned (per channel - there were two of
them).
While the most common cause of problems was tube failure, we were
required to troubleshoot and repair to the component level.

Fast forward a couple of years, and we had installed a completely
solid-state/digital auxiliary system. The only adjustment was the +5V;
not that we ever had to touch that after installation.
If anything failed, we had a flowchart to follow to determine the most
likely *board* that was the problem! Power down, swap the board, power
up, see if the problem disappeared.
We were specifically prohibited from attempting to repair these boards
in the field.
>
> The absence of a mandatory level of CW proficiency has clearly reduced
> the level of CW activity--except in contests!!!!! Interestingly,
> though, now that CW is no longer mandatory, a lot of newer hams (and
> some old ones too) seem to be having some sort of epiphany about the
> virtues of CW, and are voluntarily taking it up. Very interesting!!!
I'm no psychologist, but it seems that humans respond more favorably to
discovering things on their own, rather than being forced to do so.
Heck, as afar as I'm concerned, anything to further my favorite mode of
communication on the radio.
>
> The bottom line is that technology is apt to change everything! It
> might even substantially wipe away ham radio all together! It
> certainly has distracted newcomers who now seem to be nearly totally
> focused on computers. I have some serious concerns about the survival
> of ham radio itself, but for now, I think the biggest threat is CC &
> R's! Hi.
You got that right! It's becoming almost impossible to find a new home
without CC&Rs.
We're planning a final move in the next few years, possibly to
KH6-land. My two challenges to the realtor: no CC&Rs and no HOA.
>
> Dave W7AQK
73 de Jim - AD6CW

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w5tvw

Re: O.T.: End of (another) era

What I am curious about is: Will they stop the use of AM on the MW
Broadcast band, the private/commercial VHF and UHF aircraft band, (that is
picking the primary users of AM) and the amateur bands? Also will they
decide that the use of CW will become illegal on the amateur bands, FM
services to indicate calls signs, the aero NDB's and VORs using CW for ID
indicators? To substitute some digital technology for these essential and
simple equipment technologies just because "they are out of date"?

Considering the non radio and non engineering political/legal types who are
taking over as FCC Commissioners, I would bet they want to "rub out" the
"old" systems from ceiling to floor!

Considering the engineering types and the nostalgists and the growing
interest of newbie amateur telegraphers, I would doubt it! The iPhone and
cellphone still hasn't completely erased the CW rag chewer from the
airwaves.

It would be completely stupid to eliminate the "root of radio" Continuous
Wave Telegraphy. It is slow, but it is simple and it WORKS. Why get rid
of it.

73 to all,

Sandy W5TVW

-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Lowman
Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2013 12:03 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] O.T.: End of (another) era

Hi Dave,

On 7/16/2013 6:42 AM, Dyarnes wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> But CW is a conundrum. It takes skill! That is what seems to be
> disappearing from ham radio! Look at the decline in the ability of the
> average ham to build his/her own gear, let alone repair it! Admittedly,
> the radios we buy these days don't lend themselves to DIY repair, mainly
> due to the advanced technology of things like SMD's, etc. These days, if
> you have a problem, it usually means swapping out an entire board rather
> than replacing a single part.
This is one reason that I didn't pursue electronics as a career.
Back in the early 70s I was in the Air Force, working on FAA-style air
traffic control radar systems.
One unit that I worked on was tube-based, with probably 100 or more
adjustments to keep it properly aligned (per channel - there were two of
them).
While the most common cause of problems was tube failure, we were
required to troubleshoot and repair to the component level.

Fast forward a couple of years, and we had installed a completely
solid-state/digital auxiliary system. The only adjustment was the +5V;
not that we ever had to touch that after installation.
If anything failed, we had a flowchart to follow to determine the most
likely *board* that was the problem! Power down, swap the board, power
up, see if the problem disappeared.
We were specifically prohibited from attempting to repair these boards
in the field.
>
> The absence of a mandatory level of CW proficiency has clearly reduced the
> level of CW activity--except in contests!!!!! Interestingly, though, now
> that CW is no longer mandatory, a lot of newer hams (and some old ones
> too) seem to be having some sort of epiphany about the virtues of CW, and
> are voluntarily taking it up. Very interesting!!!
I'm no psychologist, but it seems that humans respond more favorably to
discovering things on their own, rather than being forced to do so.
Heck, as afar as I'm concerned, anything to further my favorite mode of
communication on the radio.
>
> The bottom line is that technology is apt to change everything! It might
> even substantially wipe away ham radio all together! It certainly has
> distracted newcomers who now seem to be nearly totally focused on
> computers. I have some serious concerns about the survival of ham radio
> itself, but for now, I think the biggest threat is CC & R's! Hi.
You got that right! It's becoming almost impossible to find a new home
without CC&Rs.
We're planning a final move in the next few years, possibly to
KH6-land. My two challenges to the realtor: no CC&Rs and no HOA.
>
> Dave W7AQK
73 de Jim - AD6CW

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Mike Morrow-3

Re: O.T.: End of (another) era

In reply to this post by Phil Kane-2

> A while back some Japanese company was seriously contemplating
> using CW as an input method for texting on cellphones! It would
> only require two or three keys! Interesting concept, but I guess
> it didn't fly--at least not now.

I think you mean this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KhZKNZO8mQ
And this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Je7Xq9tdCJc

Mike / KK5F
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Edward R Cole

Re: O.T.: End of (another) era

In reply to this post by Phil Kane-2

I don't know how long this thread will be tolerated, but I will try
to add a few comments (mainly to "Dyarnes" <[hidden email]>):

Definition of ending or disappearing is subjective, at best. Sure
there are a few AM enthusiasts out there but one would not really
consider AM as a thriving active mode. Maybe a test is to see how
easy it is to find a station running a mode.

You can hear CW almost any time of the day on a daily basis (unless a
CME has destroyed the ionosphere). Use that same test on AM. Also
AM has not disappeared from commercial use like CW: Still in use on
BC band, Shortwave broadcast, and for VHF aircraft. But there are
plenty examples where morse code has be discontinued.

I don't expect CW to disappear overnight from ham radio, and like the
rebuilders and restorers of "Old radios" may linger on
indefinitely. But with the exception of high power transmitting,
tubes are history. And this hold-out is under attack by LD-MOS
technology for high RF power amplifiers. I still use a 8877 for QRO
on 2m-eme but probably would not start building one today in favor of
building a $250 LD-MOS 1200w amp that drives with 3w and only
requires 50v vs 4kV. Technology!

Regarding digital modes and their "conversation ability": psk-31 and
rtty both are nice for this. JT65 was not designed for
messaging. It was designed to handle the minimum information
required for a valid eme contact. EME is not conversational for most
stations (there are a few big-guns that can carry on a conversation
using CW). But JT65 can be modified to handle plain text messages so
not functionally impossible. The recent creation of JT56HF and use
on HF would predict such as forthcoming.

The objection to digital is to its not being a real-time interactive
experience, yet many of you participate on chat rooms. Keyboarding
is an alternative how ever it is technically accomplished. The real
truth is many on this reflector are avid CW operators and "like
it". So why justify that? I like eme...you do not have to. I like
designing and building smt level stuff...you do not have to. You like CW...

It really comes down to whether CW will attract "new blood". That
must happen for it to survive as an activity. No one can predict the
future....yes, that is all BS! But that is one of the fun things of
ham radio...BSing (chewing the rag, whatever).

Final note: I got my Novice license in 1958 and did learn CW; later
passed my General, Advanced, and Extra. I also hold a 2nd Class
Radiotelephone with radar endorsement. 45+ years in electronics as a
professional. I own all that to ham radio which captured my
imagination at age 12. How well is ham radio doing with youth, today?

73, Ed - KL7UW
http://www.kl7uw.com
[hidden email]
"Kits made by KL7UW"

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Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT

Re: O.T.: End of (another) era

On 7/16/2013 12:18 PM, Edward R Cole wrote:
> The objection to digital is to its not being a real-time interactive
> experience, <snip>
Says who?

I've been going through storage today, and I found my original license,
issued in 1977. I also found a picture of my shack from around 1979
with my pride-and-joy 28KSR.

I was part of the TAPR beta test, making me an early pioneer in AX.25
packet.

I ran autostart for quite a few years, and my packet station was on 24/7
for more than a decade.

PSK-31 is bringing me back (slowly -- apartment living is a bit of an
issue).

I hadn't realized that JT65 isn't set up for keyboard-to-keyboard
conversation, which makes that mode less interesting. I've had my
computer up and on-line and let it work people for me, but it's not
nearly as much fun.

-- Lynn

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Vic Rosenthal

Re: O.T.: End of (another) era

In reply to this post by Edward R Cole

Phil Kane-2

Re: O.T.: End of (another) era

In reply to this post by w5tvw

On 7/16/2013 11:33 AM, Sandy Blaize wrote:

> Considering the non radio and non engineering political/legal types who
> are taking over as FCC Commissioners,

"Taking over"? They've been there for many decades. The last engineer
commissioner was George Sterling (of blessed memory) who had headed up
the Radio Intelligence Division in WW-II and was a commissioner in the
late 1940s. There have been several who were real communication lawyers
and some who were broadcasters, so they had some exposure to the
industry. I have had personal contact with two who were excellent -
Richard Wiley (communications attorney - 1970s) and James Quello
(retired broadcast executive - 1990s) and at least three others who
weren't (names withheld to protect the guilty).

Today's crop dances to the tune of "broadband and wireless for the
masses". No doubt the broadband and wireless lobbies are happy to see
the radio and engineering people go away and play somewhere else.

My main gripe is that none of the recent commissioners have worked their
way up through the agency since Rosel Hyde (communications attorney -
late 1960s) who was the chief of the Common Carrier Bureau and fairly
familiar with international marine radio issues. Perhaps the Bureau
Chiefs knew something that wasn't obvious when they declined to become
commissioners!

> I would bet they want to "rub out" the "old" systems from ceiling to floor!

They couldn't care less. Look to the lobbyists.

73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
Elecraft K2/100 s/n 5402

From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon
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