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Re: O.T. Morse is not dead, at least in the U.S. Navy

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Richard Lamont

Re: O.T. Morse is not dead, at least in the U.S. Navy

On 18/11/17 03:45, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote:

> http://www.navy.mil/submit/display.asp?story_id=92864

The people being trained by the US Navy to read Morse are intercept
operators.

"Morse code is just one tool that cryptologic technician (collection)
Sailors use as members of the Navy's Information Warfare community to
perform collection, analysis and reporting on communication signals."

There's nothing in this press release to suggest that the US Navy is
reverting to Morse for two-way communication.

73,
Richard G4DYA
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EricJ-2

Re: O.T. Morse is not dead, at least in the U.S. Navy

Maybe not, but having intercept operators learn Morse code implies that SOMEBODY is using it that the US military wants to listen to. So Morse code is not dead.

Eric KE6US

On 11/19/2017 1:24 AM, Richard Lamont wrote:

On 18/11/17 03:45, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote:

http://www.navy.mil/submit/display.asp?story_id=92864

The people being trained by the US Navy to read Morse are intercept
operators.

"Morse code is just one tool that cryptologic technician (collection)
Sailors use as members of the Navy's Information Warfare community to
perform collection, analysis and reporting on communication signals."

There's nothing in this press release to suggest that the US Navy is
reverting to Morse for two-way communication.

73,
Richard G4DYA
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k6dgw

Re: O.T. Morse is not dead, at least in the U.S. Navy

In reply to this post by Richard Lamont

True ... however "someone" must be using Morse or there wouldn't be any
communications to intercept. [:-) Maybe the US Navy is intercepting
us? There was a recent URL posted involving using the venerable signal
lamps for high speed communications between ships. I don't think it was
Morse however.

73,

Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

On 11/19/2017 1:24 AM, Richard Lamont wrote:

> On 18/11/17 03:45, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote:
>
>> http://www.navy.mil/submit/display.asp?story_id=92864
> The people being trained by the US Navy to read Morse are intercept
> operators.
>
> "Morse code is just one tool that cryptologic technician (collection)
> Sailors use as members of the Navy's Information Warfare community to
> perform collection, analysis and reporting on communication signals."
>
> There's nothing in this press release to suggest that the US Navy is
> reverting to Morse for two-way communication.
>
> 73,
> Richard G4DYA
>

k6dgw

Re: O.T. Morse is not dead, at least in the U.S. Navy

In reply to this post by Richard Lamont

w7aqk

Re: O.T. Morse is not dead, at least in the U.S. Navy

In reply to this post by Richard Lamont

Fred and All,

I think Morse is exactly what they are using with the signal lamps. The article I read about this confirmed that.

Dave W7AQK

---------------------------------------------

There was a recent URL posted involving using the venerable signal
lamps for high speed communications between ships.? I don't think it was
Morse however.

73,

Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

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Doug Smith [W7KF]

Re: O.T. Morse is not dead, at least in the U.S. Navy

Yes, it is morse code although the protocol is very different.

For example, to call a distant (unknown) ship you point your big light at them and send AA. The proper response is a loooong T. There’s a book carried aboard all ships that documents the protocols. I have a copy here somewhere..

But it was NOT what you’d call high speed so Skip might have been referring to something else entirely.

And, yes, I have done ship to ship comms using signal lights. It was in the Red Sea and Persian Gulf during Desert Storm. Didn’t use them at all during OIF-I or OIF-II (2003, 2004).

(If interested further please contact me off-list. I don’t want to prolong a marginally off-topic thread here..)

73,
Doug, W7KF
http://www.w7kf.com <http://www.w7kf.com/>

> On Nov 19, 2017, at 7:48 PM, dyarnes <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Fred and All,
>
> I think Morse is exactly what they are using with the signal lamps. The article I read about this confirmed that.
>
> Dave W7AQK

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Kevin Cozens-2

Re: O.T. Morse is not dead, at least in the U.S. Navy

In reply to this post by Richard Lamont

On 2017-11-19 04:24 AM, Richard Lamont wrote:
> The people being trained by the US Navy to read Morse are intercept
> operators.

The article indicated that they are only learning morse for a standard latin
(ie. English) alphabet. A number of years ago I visited the radio room while
on a boat cruise in the Caribbean. The radio operator was copying down morse
coming in over the radio. I tried to see what I could copy in my head but I
couldn't make sense of it. When I looked at what the radio operator was
writing down it was Greek. I don't mean as in "it was Greek to me" but that
it was actually in the Greek language. The US Navy morse interceptors will
need to be able to copy morse in multiple languages to be truly effective.

--
Cheers!

Kevin.

http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"Nerds make the shiny things that distract
Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 | the mouth-breathers, and that's why we're
| powerful!"
#include <disclaimer/favourite> | --Chris Hardwick
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Richard S. Leary

Re: O.T. Morse is not dead, at least in the U.S. Navy

Kevin,
My two cents worth. I was a USAF Morse Intercept Operator for almost 8
years. Started in Mar 1955. School was 7 months. Of that, CW training was 3+
hours a day, 5 days a week, for 7 months. Graduating speed requirement was
20 wpm. I started knowing zilch, ended up school at 23 wpm. Characters
taught then were A thru Z, 1 thru 0, plus "special characters". Total
character count was in excess of 45 characters. Some special characters were
colon (:), semi-colon (;), ampersand (&), dollar ($), exclamation point (!),
quotes ("), plus other normal punctuation marks. I worked as a MIO for 6 1/2
years in Europe. Germany, Turkey, and England. Consecutive tours. We copied
CW as it was sent. If it ended up looking like Greek, or any other language,
it was still CW, but transcribed onto paper, as whatever was sent. No
computers back then, just a pair of Hammerlund SP-600's, R-390's or 51J's,
and a Royal or Remington manual mil spec typewriter, and lots of 6 ply, fan
fold paper with carbons. In Turkey, the building next to our ops area was
Navy ops. Their CT's were reknown for being pretty excellent operators. Glad
to see the Navy MIO's back. Just my $0.02 worth.

73, Rick, W7LKG

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Kevin Cozens
Sent: Sunday, November 19, 2017 23:19
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] O.T. Morse is not dead, at least in the U.S. Navy

On 2017-11-19 04:24 AM, Richard Lamont wrote:
> The people being trained by the US Navy to read Morse are intercept
> operators.

The article indicated that they are only learning morse for a standard latin
(ie. English) alphabet. A number of years ago I visited the radio room while
on a boat cruise in the Caribbean. The radio operator was copying down morse
coming in over the radio. I tried to see what I could copy in my head but I
couldn't make sense of it. When I looked at what the radio operator was
writing down it was Greek. I don't mean as in "it was Greek to me" but that
it was actually in the Greek language. The US Navy morse interceptors will
need to be able to copy morse in multiple languages to be truly effective.

--
Cheers!

Kevin.

http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"Nerds make the shiny things that distract
Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 | the mouth-breathers, and that's why we're
| powerful!"
#include <disclaimer/favourite> | --Chris Hardwick
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Bob McGraw - K4TAX

Re: O.T. Morse is not dead, at least in the U.S. Navy

One of my class mates signed up for the Navy right after graduation from
High School. He ended up being a radio operator. Has retold the story
many times of several ops sitting in front of a mill {typewriter} and
all were copying the same message from multiple receivers. The average
message speed ran somewhat above 20 WPM. In one instance a message was
sent from command that a very large message of several thousand word
groups was to be sent. The best operators were assigned to the duty.
He says they copied a thousand word groups and then sending station
would break for confirmation. His response to the sending station was
RR QRQ......... {Roger Roger Send Faster}

73

Bob, K4TAX

On 11/20/2017 3:34 AM, Richard S. Leary wrote:

> Kevin,
> My two cents worth. I was a USAF Morse Intercept Operator for almost 8
> years. Started in Mar 1955. School was 7 months. Of that, CW training was 3+
> hours a day, 5 days a week, for 7 months. Graduating speed requirement was
> 20 wpm. I started knowing zilch, ended up school at 23 wpm. Characters
> taught then were A thru Z, 1 thru 0, plus "special characters". Total
> character count was in excess of 45 characters. Some special characters were
> colon (:), semi-colon (;), ampersand (&), dollar ($), exclamation point (!),
> quotes ("), plus other normal punctuation marks. I worked as a MIO for 6 1/2
> years in Europe. Germany, Turkey, and England. Consecutive tours. We copied
> CW as it was sent. If it ended up looking like Greek, or any other language,
> it was still CW, but transcribed onto paper, as whatever was sent. No
> computers back then, just a pair of Hammerlund SP-600's, R-390's or 51J's,
> and a Royal or Remington manual mil spec typewriter, and lots of 6 ply, fan
> fold paper with carbons. In Turkey, the building next to our ops area was
> Navy ops. Their CT's were reknown for being pretty excellent operators. Glad
> to see the Navy MIO's back. Just my $0.02 worth.
>
> 73, Rick, W7LKG
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Kevin Cozens
> Sent: Sunday, November 19, 2017 23:19
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] O.T. Morse is not dead, at least in the U.S. Navy
>
> On 2017-11-19 04:24 AM, Richard Lamont wrote:
>> The people being trained by the US Navy to read Morse are intercept
>> operators.
> The article indicated that they are only learning morse for a standard latin
> (ie. English) alphabet. A number of years ago I visited the radio room while
> on a boat cruise in the Caribbean. The radio operator was copying down morse
> coming in over the radio. I tried to see what I could copy in my head but I
> couldn't make sense of it. When I looked at what the radio operator was
> writing down it was Greek. I don't mean as in "it was Greek to me" but that
> it was actually in the Greek language. The US Navy morse interceptors will
> need to be able to copy morse in multiple languages to be truly effective.
>
> --
> Cheers!
>
> Kevin.
>
> http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"Nerds make the shiny things that distract
> Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 | the mouth-breathers, and that's why we're
> | powerful!"
> #include <disclaimer/favourite> | --Chris Hardwick
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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> delivered to [hidden email]
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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>

Stewart

Re: O.T. Morse is not dead, at least in the U.S. Navy

In reply to this post by Richard S. Leary

On 11/20/2017 4:34 AM, Richard S. Leary wrote:

Phil Kane-2

Re: O.T. Morse is not dead, at least in the U.S. Navy

In reply to this post by k6dgw

On 11/19/2017 1:31 PM, Fred Jensen wrote:

> There's nothing in this press release to suggest that the US Navy is
> reverting to Morse for two-way communication.

One never knows. Almost 40 years ago I was an observer TDY at a major
USN Communication Station when one of the periodical drills required
suspension of satellite circuits and reversion to HF message
transmissions for a day. It worked.

I do know that the USCG had stopped Morse coverage many years ago, but
until this year, their COMSPAC station (NMC) staffed by retired
"Coasties" who were Morse operators "back then" would "go Morse" on
several MF and HF channels for the "Night of Nights" event held by the
Maritime Radio Historical Society. AFAIK this year would be the last
one because the transmitter that was configured for that event was being
replaced by one required other duties.
----

73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
Elecraft K2/100 s/n 5402

From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon
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k6dgw

Re: O.T. Morse is not dead, at least in the U.S. Navy

In reply to this post by w7aqk

OK, what's different then from WW2 signal lamp usage? I thought they
were using a modified lamp with QRQ Morse decoded in some sort of
hardward/software device, or a digital mode.

73,

Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

On 11/19/2017 6:48 PM, dyarnes wrote:

> Fred and All,
>
> I think Morse is exactly what they are using with the signal lamps. The article I read about this confirmed that.
>
> Dave W7AQK
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------
>
> There was a recent URL posted involving using the venerable signal
> lamps for high speed communications between ships.? I don't think it was
> Morse however.
>
> 73,
>
> Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
> Sparks NV DM09dn
> Washoe County
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
>
> --
> This message has been scanned by E.F.A. Project and is believed to be clean.
>
>
>

Richard S. Leary

Re: O.T. Morse is not dead, at least in the U.S. Navy

In reply to this post by Stewart

Yep, that's where I was, Nov 57 to Nov 58. I see you were there when it was not "mudsite" anymore. Wonder if the Picadilly was still there?
Have a wonderful Thanksgiving.

73, Rick, W7LKG, MSgt USAF (Ret)

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Stewart
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 08:57
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] O.T. Morse is not dead, at least in the U.S. Navy

On 11/20/2017 4:34 AM, Richard S. Leary wrote:

> Kevin,
> My two cents worth. I was a USAF Morse Intercept Operator for almost 8
> years. Started in Mar 1955. School was 7 months. Of that, CW training
> was 3+ hours a day, 5 days a week, for 7 months. Graduating speed
> requirement was
> 20 wpm. I started knowing zilch, ended up school at 23 wpm. Characters
> taught then were A thru Z, 1 thru 0, plus "special characters". Total
> character count was in excess of 45 characters. Some special
> characters were colon (:), semi-colon (;), ampersand (&), dollar ($),
> exclamation point (!), quotes ("), plus other normal punctuation
> marks. I worked as a MIO for 6 1/2 years in Europe. Germany, Turkey,
> and England. Consecutive tours. We copied CW as it was sent. If it
> ended up looking like Greek, or any other language, it was still CW,
> but transcribed onto paper, as whatever was sent. No computers back
> then, just a pair of Hammerlund SP-600's, R-390's or 51J's, and a
> Royal or Remington manual mil spec typewriter, and lots of 6 ply, fan
> fold paper with carbons. In Turkey, the building next to our ops area
> was Navy ops. Their CT's were reknown for being pretty excellent operators. Glad to see the Navy MIO's back. Just my $0.02 worth.
>
> 73, Rick, W7LKG
>
>

Rick,
Looks like you were at Karamursel, I was there 1962-63, Navy Ops.
73
Stew ke4yh CTTC USN Ret.

---
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donovanf

Re: O.T. Morse is not dead, at least in the U.S. Navy

In reply to this post by Richard Lamont

Hi Walter,

Your doubts have no basis in reality. Many nations -- but not modern
western nations -- still use Morse for military communications,
especially tactical comms.

73
Frank
W3LPL

----- Original Message -----

From: "Walter Underwood" <[hidden email]>
To: "Elecraft" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2017 4:42:24 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] O.T. Morse is not dead, at least in the U.S. Navy

About training intercept operators … I doubt that Morse is used very often by the opposition, even with good code books. But if we stopped training people to read it, that would be a vulnerability.

wunder
K6WRU
Walter Underwood
CM87wj
http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)

> On Nov 21, 2017, at 8:34 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Fred, it's called LiFi and uses the ability of LED light sources to handle high frequency modulation to send data securely since one has to intercept the actual beam to even get the data, much less decode the information. Apparently pretty high data rates are possible with the system.
>
> Here's a press article from about a year ago.
>
> http://dailycaller.com/2016/08/10/revamped-100-year-old-lamp-will-help-the-navy-counter-russia-and-china/
>
> I'm sure we Hams will find a use for the technology, Hi!
>
> Way back in 1955 when I was in High School I created a very popular display that used my S-38 receiver tuned to a popular station. Current powering a 6V lantern passed through the S38's audio output transformer to modulate the light. The lighet was received by a photoelectric tube across the table, amplified and the sound of the radio station played in a remote speaker. The sound could be interrupted by passing one's hand in from of the light.
>
> Even though it was an incandescent bulb with its thermal lag, it still reproduced good AM quality audio.
>
> It was good enough (in 1955) that I was encouraged to display it at the annual Science Fair where it worked too well. Someone stole the photoelectric tube from the display before it could be judged -- but I still got an A on the project!
>
> 73, Ron AC7AC
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Fred Jensen
> Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 12:34 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] O.T. Morse is not dead, at least in the U.S. Navy
>
> OK, what's different then from WW2 signal lamp usage? I thought they were using a modified lamp with QRQ Morse decoded in some sort of hardward/software device, or a digital mode.
>
> 73,
>
> Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
> Sparks NV DM09dn
> Washoe County
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
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> Message delivered to [hidden email]

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Bill Frantz

Re: O.T. Morse is not dead, at least in the U.S. Navy

In reply to this post by Richard Lamont

Back in the day, when people used modems with a LED that blinked
when transmissions were occurring, someone aimed a telescope at
the LED and was able to intercept the modem's transmission since
the LED was operated from the output data stream. When people
started experimenting, data rates of up to 1 megabit/second were
achieved. Think about the possibilites for field day. :-)

73 Bill AE6JV

On 11/21/17 at 8:34 PM, [hidden email] (Ron D'Eau Claire) wrote:

>Fred, it's called LiFi and uses the ability of LED light
>sources to handle high frequency modulation to send data
>securely since one has to intercept the actual beam to even get
>the data, much less decode the information. Apparently pretty
>high data rates are possible with the system.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Frantz |"Web security is like medicine - trying to
do good for
408-356-8506 |an evolved body of kludges" - Mark Miller
www.pwpconsult.com |

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