Re: Plasma TV Noise any ideas on how to filter it out.
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My next-door neighbor was probably one of the early adopters of plasma TV
several years ago. One night at bedtime I switched on the AM radio and was met by severe buzz all over the dial. Not a single station was listenable. I could hear the buzz all the way up to 10 meters. It only took me a few minutes to determine that it was coming from my neighbor's house. I informed him the next day. Lucky for me, he is the type of guy who can't stand the idea that a brand-new device of his is causing pollution-- he saw it as a defect. And, of course, his own AM radios were affected, too. He had a Panasonic tech out there in a couple of days. I don't know what the tech did, but he managed to reduce the noise by about 10 dB though he never eliminated it entirely. I've had to live with it ever since. Since then I have said that the two things that have the most potential to kill HF ham radio are homeowners' associations and plasma TVs. Pray that your neighbors don't buy one of these evil devices. Al W6LX ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: Plasma TV Noise any ideas on how to filter it out.
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Same thing here but the neighbor is no help other than allowing me to buy
them a new TV. Theirs is a Samsung 58" plasma. Forget using any kind of line filters. The noise is radiated from the SCREEN....straight out. After months of experimentation, the only cure has been the MFJ-1026 and it works magic! Having a K3 with LP-PAN or P3 makes adjustments easy. Otherwise it would be a real pain to tweak. You do need decent noise receiving antenna for the 1026. The K3 has the RX-IN/OUT jacks which allows to interface the 1026 with ease and retain your QSK without using the MFJ internal relay. Contact me for any further info. 73 Steve N4LQ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Al Lorona" <[hidden email]> To: <[hidden email]> Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 9:19 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Plasma TV Noise any ideas on how to filter it out. My next-door neighbor was probably one of the early adopters of plasma TV several years ago. One night at bedtime I switched on the AM radio and was met by severe buzz all over the dial. Not a single station was listenable. I could hear the buzz all the way up to 10 meters. It only took me a few minutes to determine that it was coming from my neighbor's house. I informed him the next day. Lucky for me, he is the type of guy who can't stand the idea that a brand-new device of his is causing pollution-- he saw it as a defect. And, of course, his own AM radios were affected, too. He had a Panasonic tech out there in a couple of days. I don't know what the tech did, but he managed to reduce the noise by about 10 dB though he never eliminated it entirely. I've had to live with it ever since. Since then I have said that the two things that have the most potential to kill HF ham radio are homeowners' associations and plasma TVs. Pray that your neighbors don't buy one of these evil devices. Al W6LX ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: Plasma TV Noise any ideas on how to filter it out.
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You guys are aware, I suppose, that interference of this level and
duration clearly qualifies as the type of interference that merits direct FCC intervention. File a complaint. The resolution process will take some time, but you will win in the end. The FCC has the power to force your neighbor to stop using the interfering device. But, remember the golden rule of interference: "If no one complains, it's not interference". Unless you raise an official complaint, you have no one but ourself to complain to. One thing that works almost every time is this correct statement: "Your TV is not supposed to radiate interference, but it clearly is. It certainly is not supposed to transmit signals. That means it is defective somehow. I have no idea what the defect could be but, your TV _is_ an electrical device, and if it is defective who knows what could happen. I hope it doesn't cause a fire!" Works best if mentioned within earshot of the neighbors wife. Good luck. - Jim, KL7CC Steve Ellington wrote: > Same thing here but the neighbor is no help other than allowing me to buy > them a new TV. Theirs is a Samsung 58" plasma. Forget using any kind of line > filters. The noise is radiated from the SCREEN....straight out. > After months of experimentation, the only cure has been the MFJ-1026 and it > works magic! Having a K3 with LP-PAN or P3 makes adjustments easy. Otherwise > it would be a real pain to tweak. > You do need decent noise receiving antenna for the 1026. The K3 has the > RX-IN/OUT jacks which allows to interface the 1026 with ease and retain your > QSK without using the MFJ internal relay. > Contact me for any further info. 73 > > Steve > N4LQ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Al Lorona" <[hidden email]> > To: <[hidden email]> > Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 9:19 PM > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Plasma TV Noise any ideas on how to filter it out. > > > My next-door neighbor was probably one of the early adopters of plasma TV > several years ago. > > One night at bedtime I switched on the AM radio and was met by severe buzz > all > over the dial. Not a single station was listenable. I could hear the buzz > all > the way up to 10 meters. It only took me a few minutes to determine that it > was > coming from my neighbor's house. > > I informed him the next day. Lucky for me, he is the type of guy who can't > stand > the idea that a brand-new device of his is causing pollution-- he saw it as > a > defect. And, of course, his own AM radios were affected, too. He had a > Panasonic > tech out there in a couple of days. I don't know what the tech did, but he > managed to reduce the noise by about 10 dB though he never eliminated it > entirely. I've had to live with it ever since. > > Since then I have said that the two things that have the most potential to > kill > HF ham radio are homeowners' associations and plasma TVs. > > Pray that your neighbors don't buy one of these evil devices. > > Al W6LX > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by alorona
Speaking of plasma displays, does anyone know what the display type is for these new billboards I see popping up all over town here in the North Texas area that appear to be either LCD or plasma? When I drive by them there is a lot of noise at HF and VHF and there is one about a mile from me that I can point toward with an 18 element Yagi-Uda on 2m and get a lot of noise. Looks like another BPL type of fight coming... 73, Tom Amateur Radio Operator N5GE On Tue, 10 May 2011 18:19:01 -0700 (PDT), Al Lorona <[hidden email]> wrote: >My next-door neighbor was probably one of the early adopters of plasma TV >several years ago. > >One night at bedtime I switched on the AM radio and was met by severe buzz all >over the dial. Not a single station was listenable. I could hear the buzz all >the way up to 10 meters. It only took me a few minutes to determine that it was >coming from my neighbor's house. > >I informed him the next day. Lucky for me, he is the type of guy who can't stand >the idea that a brand-new device of his is causing pollution-- he saw it as a >defect. And, of course, his own AM radios were affected, too. He had a Panasonic >tech out there in a couple of days. I don't know what the tech did, but he >managed to reduce the noise by about 10 dB though he never eliminated it >entirely. I've had to live with it ever since. > >Since then I have said that the two things that have the most potential to kill >HF ham radio are homeowners' associations and plasma TVs. > >Pray that your neighbors don't buy one of these evil devices. > >Al W6LX >______________________________________________________________ >Elecraft mailing list >Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >Post: mailto:[hidden email] > >This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Amateur Radio Operator N5GE
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Re: Plasma TV Noise any ideas on how to filter it out.
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In reply to this post by Jim Wiley-2
You guys in the States are lucky, the FCC listens and takes action.
In the UK our "Regulator" Ofcom blames radio amateurs for having sensitive receivers, and as a consequence says it can do nothing to help... 73 Stewart G3RXQ On Tue, 10 May 2011 18:49:49 -0800, Jim Wiley wrote: > You guys are aware, I suppose, that interference of this level and > duration clearly qualifies as the type of interference that merits > direct FCC intervention. File a complaint. The resolution process will > take some time, but you will win in the end. The FCC has the power to > force your neighbor to stop using the interfering device. > > > But, remember the golden rule of interference: "If no one complains, > it's not interference". Unless you raise an official complaint, you > have no one but ourself to complain to. > > > One thing that works almost every time is this correct statement: > "Your TV is not supposed to radiate interference, but it clearly is. It > certainly is not supposed to transmit signals. That means it is > defective somehow. I have no idea what the defect could be but, your TV > _is_ an electrical device, and if it is defective who knows what could > happen. I hope it doesn't cause a fire!" Works best if mentioned > within earshot of the neighbors wife. > > > Good luck. > > > - Jim, KL7CC > > > Steve Ellington wrote: >> Same thing here but the neighbor is no help other than allowing me to buy >> them a new TV. Theirs is a Samsung 58" plasma. Forget using any kind of line >> filters. The noise is radiated from the SCREEN....straight out. >> After months of experimentation, the only cure has been the MFJ-1026 and it >> works magic! Having a K3 with LP-PAN or P3 makes adjustments easy. Otherwise >> it would be a real pain to tweak. >> You do need decent noise receiving antenna for the 1026. The K3 has the >> RX-IN/OUT jacks which allows to interface the 1026 with ease and retain your >> QSK without using the MFJ internal relay. >> Contact me for any further info. 73 >> >> Steve >> N4LQ >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Al Lorona" <[hidden email]> >> To: <[hidden email]> >> Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 9:19 PM >> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Plasma TV Noise any ideas on how to filter it out. >> >> >> My next-door neighbor was probably one of the early adopters of plasma TV >> several years ago. >> >> One night at bedtime I switched on the AM radio and was met by severe buzz >> all >> over the dial. Not a single station was listenable. I could hear the buzz >> all >> the way up to 10 meters. It only took me a few minutes to determine that it >> was >> coming from my neighbor's house. >> >> I informed him the next day. Lucky for me, he is the type of guy who can't >> stand >> the idea that a brand-new device of his is causing pollution-- he saw it as >> a >> defect. And, of course, his own AM radios were affected, too. He had a >> Panasonic >> tech out there in a couple of days. I don't know what the tech did, but he >> managed to reduce the noise by about 10 dB though he never eliminated it >> entirely. I've had to live with it ever since. >> >> Since then I have said that the two things that have the most potential to >> kill >> HF ham radio are homeowners' associations and plasma TVs. >> >> Pray that your neighbors don't buy one of these evil devices. >> >> Al W6LX >> ______________________________________________________________ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:[hidden email] >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >> >> ______________________________________________________________ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:[hidden email] >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >> >> > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: Plasma TV Noise any ideas on how to filter it out.
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Re: Plasma TV Noise any ideas on how to filter it out.
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In reply to this post by alorona
This is a common problem with all plasma TVs and the Panasonic brand in
particular. Here in the UK Ofcom ( UK version of FCC) has been involved with the manufacturer and the defective sets have had their plasma panels replaced. The interference is radiated directly from the screen and not much can be done about it. May I strongly suggest that you file a complaint as the more people who do so will ensure that this menace is removed. The same goes for any PLC / PLT equipment that is much worse than the plasma screen. 73 Peter G3SMT ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: Plasma TV Noise any ideas on how to filter it out.
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In reply to this post by Jim Wiley-2
Bet that improves neighbourly relations no end.
Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222 KX3 #110
* G4ILO's Shack - http://www.g4ilo.com * KComm - http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html * KTune - http://www.g4ilo.com/ktune.html |
Re: Plasma TV Noise any ideas on how to filter it out.
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With only six FCC enforcement engineers, it's not likely to result in
another Hatfields vs McCoys relationship. matt W6NIA On Wed, 11 May 2011 02:56:22 -0700 (PDT), you wrote: > >Jim Wiley-2 wrote: >> >> The FCC has the power to >> force your neighbor to stop using the interfering device. >> > >Bet that improves neighbourly relations no end. > >----- >Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222. >* G4ILO's Shack - http://www.g4ilo.com >* KComm - http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html >* KTune - http://www.g4ilo.com/ktune.html Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: Plasma TV Noise any ideas on how to filter it out.
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On 5/11/2011 7:42 AM, Matt Zilmer wrote:
> With only six FCC enforcement engineers, it's not likely to > result in another Hatfields vs McCoys relationship. You mean "only six" in one district. Problems of this sort are usually handled by letter before anyone is sent out. ARRL Volunteer Counsels and Consulting Engineers are sometimes asked to serve as mediators in those situations (I've done a few). When I started at FCC San Francisco in the 1960s we had 10 at one time. We did a lot of marine safety inspections, as well as land mobile and broadcast station compliance audits and CB and Ham Radio compliance and interference resolution. The vast majority of those activities have been spun off to private sector entities for almost 20 years under the "deregulation" banner. When I retired as District Director in the 1990s there were only two engineers plus myself. A recent visit to the office revealed that there were now four. This is about one third of what is really required but I've been saying that for decades. Remember that ham problems are a very small slice of what the agency field folks should be dealing with. -- 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane Elecraft K2/100 s/n 5402 Retired and loving every minute of it Work was getting in the way of my hobbies ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: Plasma TV Noise any ideas on how to filter it out.
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In reply to this post by Jim Wiley-2
On 5/10/2011 7:49 PM, Jim Wiley wrote:
> You guys are aware, I suppose, that interference of this level and > duration clearly qualifies as the type of interference that merits > direct FCC intervention. File a complaint. Absolutely. We are right and they are wrong. If we "lay down," we have only ourselves to blame. One suggestion though for suppressing the RF trash. While I (so far) have no experience with Plasma TV RFI, MOST RF trash from electronic products, especially the stronger part of it) is radiated as a common mode signal by wiring both inside and outside the product. We can't do anything about the wiring inside the product, but we can kill the RF current on the EXTERNAL cables that connect to it, like the power cable, the coax cable(s), and any audio and video cables. To kill RF current on ANY cable, form a common mode choke by winding turns around a ferrite toroid (or clamp-on). 14 turns on a #31 2.4-in o.d. toroid is about right for 1-10 MHz, and 8 turns on a 1-in i.d. clamp-on. For the higher HF bands (14-30 MHz), use 8 turns around the toroid (either #31 or #43 mix) and 5 turns through the clamp-on. Use a separate ferrite core for each choke. If you have trash on all the bands, use both chokes on each cable. This may or may not help, and it certainly won't help the part of the trash radiated by internal wiring, but if I had RFI from a plasma set, I sure would try it before throwing up my hands. Lots of detail, including the technical explanations of why this works, is in http://audiosystemsgroup.com/RFI-Ham.pdf 73, Jim Brown K9YC ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: Plasma TV Noise any ideas on how to filter it out.
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On Wed, 11 May 2011 09:34:05 -0700, Jim Brown wrote:
> On 5/10/2011 7:49 PM, Jim Wiley wrote: >> You guys are aware, I suppose, that interference of this level and >> duration clearly qualifies as the type of interference that merits >> direct FCC intervention. File a complaint. > > Absolutely. We are right and they are wrong. If we "lay down," we have > only ourselves to blame. > > One suggestion though for suppressing the RF trash. While I (so far) > have no experience with Plasma TV RFI, MOST RF trash from electronic > products, especially the stronger part of it) is radiated as a common > mode signal by wiring both inside and outside the product. We can't do > anything about the wiring inside the product, but we can kill the RF > current on the EXTERNAL cables that connect to it, like the power cable, > the coax cable(s), and any audio and video cables. > > To kill RF current on ANY cable, form a common mode choke by winding > turns around a ferrite toroid (or clamp-on). 14 turns on a #31 2.4-in > o.d. toroid is about right for 1-10 MHz, and 8 turns on a 1-in i.d. > clamp-on. For the higher HF bands (14-30 MHz), use 8 turns around the > toroid (either #31 or #43 mix) and 5 turns through the clamp-on. Use a > separate ferrite core for each choke. If you have trash on all the > bands, use both chokes on each cable. > > This may or may not help, and it certainly won't help the part of the > trash radiated by internal wiring, but if I had RFI from a plasma set, > I sure would try it before throwing up my hands. > > Lots of detail, including the technical explanations of why this works, > is in > > http://audiosystemsgroup.com/RFI-Ham.pdf > > 73, Jim Brown K9YC Fine if it's your set. Not so easy if it's an obstinate neighbour... 73 Stewart G3RXQ > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Jeff Cochrane - VK4XA
Fortunately the higher power consumption (2-3X) of plasmas versus LCD/LEDs is causing plasmas to gradually vanish. I contacted several neighbors to alert them of the plasma RFI issue and every one had already decided to go with LCD, primarily because of power consumption. It's nice to have smart neighbors! 73, Bill |
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