Re: ... and solar power
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Re: ... and solar power
 
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I use these solar panels for portable operation. They are at Dayton every
year and sell their blemished military panels to Hams. http://www.powerfilmsolar.com/products/?foldable_solar_panels&show=category& productCategoryID=6579&productCategoryIDs=6578,6579 Dr. William J. Schmidt - K9HZ / J68HZ/ 8P6HK/ ZF2HZ Owner - Operator Big Signal Ranch Staunton, Illinois email: [hidden email] ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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I for one would be interested in more details. Which products do you use? What is needed to prevent overcharge. What does less than full sun do to the capacity. What sort of storage do you use and what sort of load do you service?
Willis 'Cookie' Cooke K5EWJ & Trustee N5BPS, USS Cavalla, USS Stewart ________________________________ From: "Dr. William J. Schmidt, II" <[hidden email]> To: [hidden email] Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2013 11:44 AM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] ... and solar power I use these solar panels for portable operation. They are at Dayton every year and sell their blemished military panels to Hams. http://www.powerfilmsolar.com/products/?foldable_solar_panels&show=category& productCategoryID=6579&productCategoryIDs=6578,6579 Dr. William J. Schmidt - K9HZ / J68HZ/ 8P6HK/ ZF2HZ Owner - Operator Big Signal Ranch Staunton, Illinois email: [hidden email] ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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All this talk about solar panels makes Green such an ugly color and the smell of gasoline and the roar of an engine seem so much more practical.
Willis 'Cookie' Cooke K5EWJ & Trustee N5BPS, USS Cavalla, USS Stewart ________________________________ From: Bill Blomgren (kk4qdz) <[hidden email]> To: WILLIS COOKE <[hidden email]> Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2013 5:13 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] ... and solar power The 70 watt panels will produce 2-3 and up to 6 amps when "fully illuminated" -- That means having an aiming system of some sort so that they swivel... Not something I'd put on a roof around here... (especially since I'm not allowed to.) a 3-4 amp charge rate would take a while on a 100 amp hour battery... but still passable. (won't cook the battery either..) Two of the 70 watt panels sound like what would really do the job. Didn't realize that they were only 40 watt panels. The guy here had some 35 volt panels that he sells to the highway department for roadside equipment. (You can never tell what he has in stock, however...) He's always out of stock at the end of the hamfest season, unfortunately. (I would have gotten one of this 70 amp panels, and a charge controller...possibly 2 of them.) Again, my location is SUB Optimal for solar, but at least I could have light and a small fan and perhaps TV if the power goes off... KK4QDZ - Now with Extra Class Priv's, and a tiny KX3 to enjoy them! From: WILLIS COOKE <[hidden email]> To: Bill Blomgren (kk4qdz) <[hidden email]> Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2013 5:59 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] ... and solar power The Harbor Freight offering is the one that I have been wondering if it is worthwhile. It is on sale tomorrow for 139.95, but it is three 15 watt panels for a total of 45 watts. Using the information you collected it would mean about two days of good sun to charge a car battery. You might be able to get two straight days of good sun on a Sport Fisherman at sea, but unlikely to get that much at a Deer Lease in your camper unless you are camping in West Texas or Arizona or some similar place. The efficiency on a boat would depend on cloud cover and how much charging you can get from the engine alternator. I would guess that the person with four batteries has separate batteries for cranking and is using the 4 batteries only for electronics and housekeeping and using other batteries for cranking. The electronics he describes sounds to me like a Sport Fisherman or a large center console with two electrical systems. Most of these can get some charging from the engines when the cranking batteries are fully charged or at least nearly so. Willis 'Cookie' Cooke K5EWJ & Trustee N5BPS, USS Cavalla, USS Stewart From: Bill Blomgren (kk4qdz) <[hidden email]> To: WILLIS COOKE <[hidden email]> Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2013 4:08 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] ... and solar power I've seen numbers thrown around at hamfests by a local solar guy - figure 50% of the claimed output of any solar panel since at normal 'earth level' you might see "full" output for only a few minutes at noon. He was selling a 40 amp hour led acid in a roll around cooler with a 40 watt panel attached to the handles for a reasonable amount. (I don't remember the exact number) - with a charge controller. His comment was it would probably take 6 hours for the panel to take the battery from 10 volts up to 'full'. He had panels there that were up to 70 watts, which is ok....and there is a kit from harbor freight that is about $150 or something for a 100 watt 2 panel (or was it 150/3 panel) without batteries...Throw in the charge controller, and the batteries...and you have a FAIR backup. (The panels they use degrade over time, however.. loosing "oomph" after 3-4 years...) They pulse the batteries in most cases, so that means that pulses are faster and a tad bigger when the panels are throwing out the most energy..at least until the battery is topped off. KK4QDZ - Now with Extra Class Priv's, and a tiny KX3 to enjoy them! From: WILLIS COOKE <[hidden email]> To: Bill Blomgren (kk4qdz) <[hidden email]> Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2013 3:49 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] ... and solar power I am watching for such comments. I am interested in the noise of the charger as well as the amount of reduced capability under less than optimum charging conditions. You are correct in general about charging capacity and load capacity, but the charging capacity chosen needs to take the self minimum discharge which adds the minimum load and the self discharge load as well as the maximum load and duty cycle. One would not want to use a 0.5 amp charger to charge a 100 amp battery, but would a 45 watt 3.5 amp charger be adequate? Typical manufacturer's specs will usually not advertise this but inquiring minds want to know! Willis 'Cookie' Cooke K5EWJ & Trustee N5BPS, USS Cavalla, USS Stewart From: Bill Blomgren (kk4qdz) <[hidden email]> To: WILLIS COOKE <[hidden email]> Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2013 2:22 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] ... and solar power I'm exploring it myself... The actual wattage of the solar panel determines how long it takes to recharge- but the battery size is what limits your operating time. The biggie is getting a *quiet* charge controller. Many of them are very noisy electrically. (Pulsing of charge current can provide lots of noise..) There are some quiet charge controllers. Watch for comments about them... Then again, if you are charging during the day, and operating at night off battery, it won't bother you. KK4QDZ - Now with Extra Class Priv's, and a tiny KX3 to enjoy them! From: WILLIS COOKE <[hidden email]> To: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>; "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]> Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2013 2:19 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] ... and solar power I for one would be interested in more details. Which products do you use? What is needed to prevent overcharge. What does less than full sun do to the capacity. What sort of storage do you use and what sort of load do you service? Willis 'Cookie' Cooke K5EWJ & Trustee N5BPS, USS Cavalla, USS Stewart ________________________________ From: "Dr. William J. Schmidt, II" <[hidden email]> To: [hidden email] Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2013 11:44 AM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] ... and solar power I use these solar panels for portable operation. They are at Dayton every year and sell their blemished military panels to Hams. http://www.powerfilmsolar.com/products/?foldable_solar_panels&show=category& productCategoryID=6579&productCategoryIDs=6578,6579 Dr. William J. Schmidt - K9HZ / J68HZ/ 8P6HK/ ZF2HZ Owner - Operator Big Signal Ranch Staunton, Illinois email: [hidden email] ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net/ Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net/ Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: ... and solar power
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It really depends on what you're trying to do.
A lot of us like to operate portable. For some of us, that's the only way to get an antenna up. A small generator weighs a bit over 30 pounds, plus about six pounds for every gallon of gas. A 65w solar panel weights about four pounds. It's a lot quieter too. How far do you want to carry that generator? -- Lynn On 11/30/2013 3:33 PM, WILLIS COOKE wrote: > All this talk about solar panels makes Green such an ugly color and the smell of gasoline and the roar of an engine seem so much more practical. > > Willis 'Cookie' Cooke > K5EWJ & Trustee N5BPS, USS Cavalla, USS Stewart > > > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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For QRP operation and portable operation, there's a lot to be said for
solar power. For QRO, gasoline is probably more practical. But, in the long run, humans will run out of gasoline way before they run out of sunlight. Of course, that assumes that there still will be humans. For the record, I have a couple of small solar panels, but I am looking at possibly getting a panel with 20 watts or so capacity. And, I do have a very small gasoline generator (a Honda unit, good for 300 watts max, 150 watts economy setting) which is fairly quiet (less than 55 dBA). I'd rather use solar/battery for portable operating. On Nov 30, 2013, at 7:11 PM, Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT wrote: > It really depends on what you're trying to do. > > A lot of us like to operate portable. For some of us, that's the > only way to get an antenna up. > > A small generator weighs a bit over 30 pounds, plus about six pounds > for every gallon of gas. > > A 65w solar panel weights about four pounds. > > It's a lot quieter too. > > How far do you want to carry that generator? > > -- Lynn > > On 11/30/2013 3:33 PM, WILLIS COOKE wrote: >> All this talk about solar panels makes Green such an ugly color and >> the smell of gasoline and the roar of an engine seem so much more >> practical. >> Willis 'Cookie' Cooke >> K5EWJ & Trustee N5BPS, USS Cavalla, USS Stewart >> >> >> ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT
Your point is well taken Lynn. Some of us are trying to make a QRP contact from the peak of Mt. Everest, some are trying to survive an ice storm or hurricane, some of us want to catch a giant fish and need radar and sonar to do it, some of us want to crank the diesel on the boat and some want to make a pot of coffee at a primitive deer camp. We are all wanting to use solar energy and batteries and we have very different objectives. We all have in common that we need to understand our options to make the correct choice.
Willis 'Cookie' Cooke K5EWJ & Trustee N5BPS, USS Cavalla, USS Stewart ________________________________ From: "Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT" <[hidden email]> To: [hidden email] Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2013 6:11 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] ... and solar power It really depends on what you're trying to do. A lot of us like to operate portable. For some of us, that's the only way to get an antenna up. A small generator weighs a bit over 30 pounds, plus about six pounds for every gallon of gas. A 65w solar panel weights about four pounds. It's a lot quieter too. How far do you want to carry that generator? -- Lynn On 11/30/2013 3:33 PM, WILLIS COOKE wrote: > All this talk about solar panels makes Green such an ugly color and the smell of gasoline and the roar of an engine seem so much more practical. > Willis 'Cookie' Cooke > K5EWJ & Trustee N5BPS, USS Cavalla, USS Stewart > > > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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Despite the fact that I still love the smell of motor oil (can't say I like
gasoline that much now that it is mixed with ethanol), I REALLY enjoyed the peace and quiet of running solar power during Field Day this year. I had a surplus of power available to run my K3 at full output at the GOTA station with a 100 watt panel and a 60AH LiFePO4 battery. (I started the contest with a full battery, and ended it with a full battery plus another 19AH of surplus power). I wouldn't have risked our main run stations on the vagaries of the sun, but perhaps some year we might give it a try. Of course what is quiet about a radio contest in the first place? But not having the drone of even a quiet Honda running was more in tune with being outdoors. 100% of my KX3 activity is solar using a smaller PowerFilm panel and battery. 73, Bob, WB4SON ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
73, Bob, WB4SON
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Our club station has had a solar setup for field day now for 5-7 yrs. Also a
club member Gordon "K0GUN" donated a new solar setup to run our repeater and has worked fins for many years. At home he depends on Solar and Wind for most of his needs in his home but everything in his large shack. 73, Fred/N0AZZ K3 Ser # 6730--KX3 # 5210--K2/100 # 6470-KAT100 P3/SVGA--KAT500--W2 Amps Elecraft KPA500 HF/6m--Alpha's 9500 HF--87A HF--Mirage B-5030-G 300+w--(2) B-5016-G's 165w 2m -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Bob Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2013 7:35 PM To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [Elecraft] ... and solar power Despite the fact that I still love the smell of motor oil (can't say I like gasoline that much now that it is mixed with ethanol), I REALLY enjoyed the peace and quiet of running solar power during Field Day this year. I had a surplus of power available to run my K3 at full output at the GOTA station with a 100 watt panel and a 60AH LiFePO4 battery. (I started the contest with a full battery, and ended it with a full battery plus another 19AH of surplus power). I wouldn't have risked our main run stations on the vagaries of the sun, but perhaps some year we might give it a try. Of course what is quiet about a radio contest in the first place? But not having the drone of even a quiet Honda running was more in tune with being outdoors. 100% of my KX3 activity is solar using a smaller PowerFilm panel and battery. 73, Bob, WB4SON ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.3426 / Virus Database: 3629/6880 - Release Date: 11/30/13 ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: ... and solar power
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In reply to this post by Cookie
Which products do you use? I use their 60 watt panel.
What is needed to prevent overcharge. Nothing. I don't use a battery. What does less than full sun do to the capacity. Full sun for full output is a fallacy. Even 50% sun through overcast gives full output. Buy a bigger panel, bigger than you need and it works almost until dusk. What sort of storage do you use and what sort of load do you service? Just small transceivers like the KX3. Dr. William J. Schmidt - K9HZ / J68HZ/ 8P6HK/ ZF2HZ Owner - Operator Big Signal Ranch Staunton, Illinois email: <mailto:[hidden email]> [hidden email] From: WILLIS COOKE [mailto:[hidden email]] Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2013 1:19 PM To: [hidden email]; [hidden email] Subject: Re: [Elecraft] ... and solar power I for one would be interested in more details. Which products do you use? What is needed to prevent overcharge. What does less than full sun do to the capacity. What sort of storage do you use and what sort of load do you service? Willis 'Cookie' Cooke K5EWJ & Trustee N5BPS, USS Cavalla, USS Stewart ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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On 12/1/2013 12:31 PM, Dr. William J. Schmidt, II wrote:
> Which products do you use? I use their 60 watt panel. > > What is needed to prevent overcharge. Nothing. I don't use a battery. > > What does less than full sun do to the capacity. Full sun for full output > is a fallacy. Even 50% sun through overcast gives full output. Buy a > bigger panel, bigger than you need and it works almost until dusk. Let's not oversimplify things. "Works almost until dusk" depends on far too many variables, including the load current. I disagree with virtually all of this, and so does all of the scientifically-based work I've seen on the subject. Full sun on a bare solar panel produces fairly high output voltage, but voltage falls as the load draws current from the cell. The output of a pair of my 55W industrial-grade solar panels varies from about 100 mA near dusk, to 300 mA in the shade, to 2A in partial sun, to 7A or more in full sun. Output current also varies with the angle of incidence (greatest when perpendicular) and temperature (greater at lower temperature). These charging currents can be increased 20-40% by the use of a good MPPT charge controller. I'm using a Genasun. GV1012, which can be bought here http://kansaswindpower.net/charge_controls.htm for $125, in a system with four 55W panels and two 210Ah 6V batteries. It is RF-quiet. Most charge controllers make noise, including a Blue Skies MPPT unit I recently encountered. A battery IS needed to protect electronics (like a KX3) from over-voltage, as might exist in bright sun on a big panel and a load of only a few hundred mA (KX3 in RX only), and if you want to operate after the sun has gone down. You don't need a BIG battery to do this -- a 7Ah 12V battery is small enough to drag up a long trail, and it will let you stay on the air much of the night QRP. I do agree that we can use only our brain as a charge controller if we're careful to monitor battery voltage and not overcharge it. All the Elecraft rigs I know of include a voltmeter, so that's easy to do, and a careful study of the battery manufacturer's data sheet will tell you when to stop. 73, Jim K9YC ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: ... and solar power
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Interesting. I'm usually the guy saying or teaching the theoretical "read
it in a paper" side and everyone else is giving me feedback about what they've actually tried. Not so this time. Remember the guy asked me what I do... and you did cut off the last sentence that says I use this with a KX3 (after all this is the Elecraft reflector). My flex-panel at full output is 14.87V (photo-saturation), and the KX3 spec is 8-15VDC at 150ma-2A max. The panel is 60 watts to roughly 4-5 amps max... but that is waaaaay overkill for this radio, so, as I said it, works down to "almost dark" (150ma in receive). So I don't need an external battery or any external voltage regulation (the radio has its own internal charging circuit and 33uf of capacitor). These flex panels are extremely efficient (and that is something actually low in percentage). Powers the KX3 perfectly. If you have a different radio, you may need to do something different. You probably own generation 1 or 2 panels... and they are very inefficient without a lot of direct sunlight. Agreed that everyone's mileage will vary. I'd say get on 20 meters today and lets work but its dark now :). Some other time. How about from PJ4 in a few weeks...make it exciting? Dr. William J. Schmidt - K9HZ / J68HZ/ 8P6HK/ ZF2HZ Owner - Operator Big Signal Ranch Staunton, Illinois email: [hidden email] -----Original Message----- <- truncated for brevity> ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Dr. William J. Schmidt, II
This topic has been pretty thoroughly thrashed, but...
I'd like to add a few comments. I installed and maintained solar-power communication sites for over 15 years. Open circuit voltage on a solar panel often will reach as high as 22 vdc (in direct sun). A panel loaded by a radio will drop in voltage to about 18v depending on the power rating of the panel and the load resistance of the radio. But one should consider a solar voltage-regulating charger in series between panels and the battery bank. For a "12-volt" battery to charge, it needs a charging voltage higher than the final full-charge voltage. Solar panels are not constant voltage sources and voltage drops with the amount of loading (higher current load lower voltage). They are volt-amp sources and not watt sources. Float charging is beyond the scope of what I can discuss, but battery mfr's provide the float voltage required for a given model battery. If you use a bank of batteries there is also equalizing voltage that should be applied according to the mfr's requirement. Most hams do not do either. I am float charging the starting battery of my standby ac generator by a crude method. It is simply a 500ma 12v charging cube plugged into a timer outlet. I guessed at the charge time per day required to maintain the battery. The charge cube runs 19vdc open circuit (its a simple transformer and diode). The battery looks like a large capacitor so no filtering is needed. So far this set up has worked over two months time during which the generator was started once. I should mention the generator is outside in an unheated compartment in Alaska winter temperatures (-3F as I write this). Back to setting up a solar charging system one needs to first analyze the load requirements: average load and peak load. Also run time is required. Then one can design a battery bank and solar charger to supply these needs. For communications equipment deep cycle batteries are best. For motor starting high starting current shallow discharge is needed. These are two different battery designs. Solar panels only work during daylight (duh!)(currently I have 6-hr 39-min of daylight per day). Interestingly, one will obtain near 70% performance with overcast skies. Panels will work if not directly pointed at the Sun but with diminished output. but it may work better to mount a panel in such a compromise position to avoid things like hail damage or snow coverage. I had solar panels mounted vertical on the side of buildings on communication sites that ran sites year round. I also had portable repeaters in fiberglass boxes with the panel on the cover looking straight up. It all depends on proper sizing for the load and sun angle. So it is not trivial to engineer a solar charging system. Some of the sites I maintained were visited only once per year and had to be reliable the rest of the year (accessible two months out of a year by helicopter). You got to do your homework for that to happen! Some sites were buried under 18-foot of snow with over 200mph winter winds. Ice could build up on antennas to over a foot diameter. If something broke is stayed broke for months as the site was inaccessible. 73, Ed - KL7UW http://www.kl7uw.com [hidden email] "Kits made by KL7UW" ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Dr. William J. Schmidt, II
> From: "Dr. William J. Schmidt, II" <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] ... and solar power > > I use these solar panels for portable operation. They are at Dayton every > year and sell their blemished military panels to Hams. > > http://www.powerfilmsolar.com/products/?foldable_solar_panels&show=category& > productCategoryID=6579&productCategoryIDs=6578,6579 > > Dr. William J. Schmidt - K9HZ / J68HZ/ 8P6HK/ ZF2HZ > > Owner - Operator > Big Signal Ranch > Staunton, Illinois Yes, very good. Alternative URL:- http://preview.tinyurl.com/mznv6e2 Goes to the same place as quoted above.. You can often find them on eBay too (for a price!) I have a 45W version. Take care though, in bright sunlight, they can produce well over 28V to an open cct or low power load. A good regulator is needed. Otherwise, very good, and very portable. Sadly, many of the "good" regulators (with MPPT functionality) are not exactly "RF quiet" for HF radio users. 73. Dave G0WBX. ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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Dave,
Can you point to a "good" regulator and/or chjarger suitable for HF radio use? 73, Igor UA9CDC > > Yes, very good. > > Alternative URL:- > http://preview.tinyurl.com/mznv6e2 > Goes to the same place as quoted above.. > > You can often find them on eBay too (for a price!) I have a 45W version. > Take > care though, in bright sunlight, they can produce well over 28V to an open > cct or > low power load. A good regulator is needed. Otherwise, very good, and > very > portable. > > Sadly, many of the "good" regulators (with MPPT functionality) are not > exactly > "RF quiet" for HF radio users. > > 73. > > Dave G0WBX. > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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I posed the question to one of the Engineers at Morningstar. His response,
in part: *That said, for low power MPPT really isn't a huge requirement. The peak power of those panels listed is only 15.4V. When they are hot it will drop further too. SO charging a battery to 14.xV there is almost nothing to be gained by mppt (and its more expensive AND lower running efficiency.) Money is better spent on buying X more watts of panel w/ a cheaper control. You'll get more power out of it. The ProStar and SunSaver controls even have a on/off mode jumper that changes the switching from ~300Hz to <=1Hz. EMI isn't the problem there its the PSRR. At 300Hz current pulses from the panel, the battery voltage will jump up/down due to its internal resistance (which goes up as it gets full.) As you know, no one in the mobile RF world uses regulators on the P12 supply instead just running the amp transistors right off it. So you can get a 300Hz 'buzz' modulated into your audio pretty easily. The <1Hz doesn't charge quite as well but simply 'clicks' vs buzzes which people find much less objectionable in their audio. MPPTs switch so fast they have filtered DC coming out so you don't hear that. But they have conducted and radiated EMI. * FWIW... 73, geo - n4ua On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 3:33 PM, Igor Sokolov <[hidden email]> wrote: > Dave, > Can you point to a "good" regulator and/or chjarger suitable for HF radio > use? > > 73, Igor UA9CDC > > >> Yes, very good. >> >> Alternative URL:- >> http://preview.tinyurl.com/mznv6e2 >> Goes to the same place as quoted above.. >> >> You can often find them on eBay too (for a price!) I have a 45W >> version. Take >> care though, in bright sunlight, they can produce well over 28V to an >> open cct or >> low power load. A good regulator is needed. Otherwise, very good, and >> very >> portable. >> >> Sadly, many of the "good" regulators (with MPPT functionality) are not >> exactly >> "RF quiet" for HF radio users. >> >> 73. >> >> Dave G0WBX. >> >> ______________________________________________________________ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:[hidden email] >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >> > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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On 12/2/2013 2:16 PM, George Dubovsky wrote:
> I posed the question to one of the Engineers at Morningstar. Good comments. BUT -- to most engineers making this stuff, "radio" is VHF/UHF, and devices that are RF clean at VHF/UHF can be screamers at HF. 73, Jim K9YC ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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The guy I talked to is a better Engineer than you or I will ever be, and
he's also a ham. Obviously you didn't bother to read the salient point of my posting, to wit: *The ProStar and SunSaver controls even have a on/off mode jumper that changes the switching from ~300Hz to <=1Hz. * Have a nice day... 73, geo - n4ua On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 5:22 PM, Jim Brown <[hidden email]> wrote: > On 12/2/2013 2:16 PM, George Dubovsky wrote: > >> I posed the question to one of the Engineers at Morningstar. >> > > Good comments. BUT -- to most engineers making this stuff, "radio" is > VHF/UHF, and devices that are RF clean at VHF/UHF can be screamers at HF. > > 73, Jim K9YC > > > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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George,
I have doubts about any engineer who expresses power in volts. 73, Don W3FPR On 12/2/2013 5:27 PM, George Dubovsky wrote: > The guy I talked to is a better Engineer than you or I will ever be, and > he's also a ham. Obviously you didn't bother to read the salient point of > my posting, to wit: > > *The ProStar and SunSaver controls even have a on/off mode jumper that > changes the switching from ~300Hz to <=1Hz. * > Have a nice day... > > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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You saw that too. I agree.
Wes N7WS On Dec 2, 2013, at 4:04 PM, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote: > George, > > I have doubts about any engineer who expresses power in volts. > > 73, > Don W3FPR > > On 12/2/2013 5:27 PM, George Dubovsky wrote: >> The guy I talked to is a better Engineer than you or I will ever be, and >> he's also a ham. Obviously you didn't bother to read the salient point of >> my posting, to wit: >> >> *The ProStar and SunSaver controls even have a on/off mode jumper that >> changes the switching from ~300Hz to <=1Hz. * >> Have a nice day... >> >> > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by George Dubovsky
Been following the thread and have a suggestion. I have a LifePO4 battery and I use a solar charger that works from 10-16 VDC under load and charges the 12.8 VDC battery above. Here is the source website if you are interested. I made up a three way junction of the 2.5 mm plugs male and female to allow connection from the charger to the battery and the KX3. I can see the buck-boost function as the light changes on the panel. Hope this helps.
Mel. K6KBE http://www.batteryspace.com/12V-DC-Smart-Charger-1.5A-for-12.8V-LiFePO4-Battery-Pack-with-5.5x2.5mm.aspx On Monday, December 2, 2013 2:52 PM, George Dubovsky <[hidden email]> wrote: I posed the question to one of the Engineers at Morningstar. His response, in part: *That said, for low power MPPT really isn't a huge requirement. The peak power of those panels listed is only 15.4V. When they are hot it will drop further too. SO charging a battery to 14.xV there is almost nothing to be gained by mppt (and its more expensive AND lower running efficiency.) Money is better spent on buying X more watts of panel w/ a cheaper control. You'll get more power out of it. The ProStar and SunSaver controls even have a on/off mode jumper that changes the switching from ~300Hz to <=1Hz. EMI isn't the problem there its the PSRR. At 300Hz current pulses from the panel, the battery voltage will jump up/down due to its internal resistance (which goes up as it gets full.) As you know, no one in the mobile RF world uses regulators on the P12 supply instead just running the amp transistors right off it. So you can get a 300Hz 'buzz' modulated into your audio pretty easily. The <1Hz doesn't charge quite as well but simply 'clicks' vs buzzes which people find much less objectionable in their audio. MPPTs switch so fast they have filtered DC coming out so you don't hear that. But they have conducted and radiated EMI. * FWIW... 73, geo - n4ua On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 3:33 PM, Igor Sokolov <[hidden email]> wrote: > Dave, > Can you point to a "good" regulator and/or chjarger suitable for HF radio > use? > > 73, Igor UA9CDC > > >> Yes, very good. >> >> Alternative URL:- >> http://preview.tinyurl.com/mznv6e2 >> Goes to the same place as quoted above.. >> >> You can often find them on eBay too (for a price!) I have a 45W >> version. Take >> care though, in bright sunlight, they can produce well over 28V to an >> open cct or >> low power load. A good regulator is needed. Otherwise, very good, and >> very >> portable. >> >> Sadly, many of the "good" regulators (with MPPT functionality) are not >> exactly >> "RF quiet" for HF radio users. >> >> 73. >> >> Dave G0WBX. >> >> ______________________________________________________________ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:[hidden email] >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >> > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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