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KENT TRIMBLE

Re: The Future of Our Hobby

Went to the barber shop this morning. Wide assortment of hunting, fishing, and gun magazines in the rack, along with a few copies of “Scouting” and “Boys Life.”

Picked those two and sat down for a leisurely read. Hadn’t seen one in sixty years. A real treat. Proceeded to peruse every page of both periodicals. Enjoyed it immensely. And then I didn’t. Flipped through the pages a second time just to be sure.

Not one sentence about amateur radio. Not one ad, not one picture, not one story. Peewee Harris was still there. Had a full page. Scouts who saved lives were still there. Covered two pages. Lots of ink about backpacking, crime safety, tenting, geocaching, campouts, evironmentalism, relationship building, dog care and other worthy endeavors. Zero ads for radios, signalling, SWLing, kit-building, satellite tracking, Morse Code, or electronic communications of any kind.

At the very minimum, I would have thought the $1000 I give the League every year might be capable of placing an ARRL logo and web address in those two youth journals ... for the mildly curious ... but nothing.

I got a decent haircut, though.

73,

Kent K9ZTV

> On Dec 16, 2019, at 1:54 PM, <[hidden email]> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> A few quick thoughts on this subject.
>
> Space exploration, colonization, and physics are the best "hooks" I see to
> fish for the young people that are best prospects as future hams.
>
> Amateur radio is the best way to "touch" the world beyond the earth and to
> get a "hands on" understanding of solar physics, electronic equipment,
> electromagnetic fields, solar weather, and the harsh environments that are
> Intersolar and interstellar space.
>
> Early involvement should come with hands on experiments, internships, summer
> jobs, resume builders for college applications, and university work/study
> programs in the communications, computer technology and defense industries.
>
> A sequenced set of building block project kits (Elecraft style would be
> ideal) that introduce basic principles and result in a receiver, a
> transmitter, and an antenna could provide a gateway, and present hams should
> underwrite making these available at a low cost and with available "Elmers"
> to help. This equipment could be used for radio astronomy, communications,
> physics experiments, meteorology, and contesting. Contesting should be
> portrayed as glamorous "yacht racing in space" and much cooler than on the
> ocean.
>
> I believe we are at a second "Sputnik" point in the quest for the high
> ground, and this is the time to grow more modern technologists, explorers,
> and entrepreneurs and fewer snowflake philosophers and low information
> consumers!
>
> What do you think?
>
> 73 John N5CQ
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

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Carl Yaffey

Re: The Future of Our Hobby

I drop off old QSTs at various places.

> On Dec 16, 2019, at 4:20 PM, K9ZTV <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Went to the barber shop this morning. Wide assortment of hunting, fishing, and gun magazines in the rack, along with a few copies of “Scouting” and “Boys Life.”
>
> Picked those two and sat down for a leisurely read. Hadn’t seen one in sixty years. A real treat. Proceeded to peruse every page of both periodicals. Enjoyed it immensely. And then I didn’t. Flipped through the pages a second time just to be sure.
>
> Not one sentence about amateur radio. Not one ad, not one picture, not one story. Peewee Harris was still there. Had a full page. Scouts who saved lives were still there. Covered two pages. Lots of ink about backpacking, crime safety, tenting, geocaching, campouts, evironmentalism, relationship building, dog care and other worthy endeavors. Zero ads for radios, signalling, SWLing, kit-building, satellite tracking, Morse Code, or electronic communications of any kind.
>
> At the very minimum, I would have thought the $1000 I give the League every year might be capable of placing an ARRL logo and web address in those two youth journals ... for the mildly curious ... but nothing.
>
> I got a decent haircut, though.
>
> 73,
>
> Kent K9ZTV
>
>
>
>> On Dec 16, 2019, at 1:54 PM, <[hidden email]> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> A few quick thoughts on this subject.
>>
>> Space exploration, colonization, and physics are the best "hooks" I see to
>> fish for the young people that are best prospects as future hams.
>>
>> Amateur radio is the best way to "touch" the world beyond the earth and to
>> get a "hands on" understanding of solar physics, electronic equipment,
>> electromagnetic fields, solar weather, and the harsh environments that are
>> Intersolar and interstellar space.
>>
>> Early involvement should come with hands on experiments, internships, summer
>> jobs, resume builders for college applications, and university work/study
>> programs in the communications, computer technology and defense industries.
>>
>> A sequenced set of building block project kits (Elecraft style would be
>> ideal) that introduce basic principles and result in a receiver, a
>> transmitter, and an antenna could provide a gateway, and present hams should
>> underwrite making these available at a low cost and with available "Elmers"
>> to help. This equipment could be used for radio astronomy, communications,
>> physics experiments, meteorology, and contesting. Contesting should be
>> portrayed as glamorous "yacht racing in space" and much cooler than on the
>> ocean.
>>
>> I believe we are at a second "Sputnik" point in the quest for the high
>> ground, and this is the time to grow more modern technologists, explorers,
>> and entrepreneurs and fewer snowflake philosophers and low information
>> consumers!
>>
>> What do you think?
>>
>> 73 John N5CQ
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

Carl Yaffey K8NU
cyaffey at gmail.com
614 268 6353, Columbus OH
http://www.carl-yaffey.com
http://www.grassahol.com
http://www.bluesswing.com
Https://www.columbusfolkmusicsociety.org
http://www.timbrewolves.carl-yaffey.com
http://www.columbusshotokankarate.com

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Ted Edwards W3TB

Re: THE FUTURE OF OUR HOBBY

In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10

Yet, here is another product idea that is driven by my concern that so many
new Techs get an HT and don't develop further into our fine hobby/avocation.
A Transceiver more significant than a Chinese cheapie for getting on other
modes in the VHF and/or UHF bands.
I do wish there were a quality-yet-simple radio for 6m/2m would be so handy
to them to discover SSB and Digital work on those bands. CW, too.

On Mon, Dec 16, 2019 at 12:52 PM Jim Brown <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> On 12/16/2019 10:19 AM, Leroy Buller wrote:
> > This is a concern of mine for Elecraft. A low cost entry rig with 100
> > watts. Very hard to compete with I Y K for this market. Flex has the
> same
> > issue but maybe the old man rich market is big enough for all players.
>
> Elecraft is not a mass market, low cost radio company. They operate in a
> different niche. Entry level at Elecraft starts with KX2, KX3, or with a
> K3/K3s bought used. When I got back on the air in 2003, I bought used
> TS850 and IC746.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

Ted Edwards W3TB

Re: THE FUTURE OF OUR HOBBY

More...
Although it has not happened, I have long expected June VHF and Sept VHF to
displace Field Day and then get more of those many new Techs active.

On Mon, Dec 16, 2019 at 3:42 PM Ted Edwards W3TB <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Yet, here is another product idea that is driven by my concern that so
> many new Techs get an HT and don't develop further into our fine
> hobby/avocation.
> A Transceiver more significant than a Chinese cheapie for getting on other
> modes in the VHF and/or UHF bands.
> I do wish there were a quality-yet-simple radio for 6m/2m would be so
> handy to them to discover SSB and Digital work on those bands. CW, too.
>
> On Mon, Dec 16, 2019 at 12:52 PM Jim Brown <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>> On 12/16/2019 10:19 AM, Leroy Buller wrote:
>> > This is a concern of mine for Elecraft. A low cost entry rig with 100
>> > watts. Very hard to compete with I Y K for this market. Flex has the
>> same
>> > issue but maybe the old man rich market is big enough for all players.
>>
>> Elecraft is not a mass market, low cost radio company. They operate in a
>> different niche. Entry level at Elecraft starts with KX2, KX3, or with a
>> K3/K3s bought used. When I got back on the air in 2003, I bought used
>> TS850 and IC746.
>>
>> 73, Jim K9YC
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>
>
>
> --
> 73 de Ted Edwards, W3TB and GØPWW
>
> and thinking about operating CW:
> "Do today what others won't,
> so you can do tomorrow what others can't."
>

Stephen Shearer

Re: The Future of Our Hobby

In reply to this post by KENT TRIMBLE

Kent, you didn't find the "correct" issue of Scouting, as JOTA is
advertised every year as is K2BSA at the National Jamboree every four
years. See: https://www.scouting.org/jota/

73, steve WB3LGC

On 12/16/19 4:20 PM, K9ZTV wrote:

> Went to the barber shop this morning. Wide assortment of hunting, fishing, and gun magazines in the rack, along with a few copies of “Scouting” and “Boys Life.”
>
> Picked those two and sat down for a leisurely read. Hadn’t seen one in sixty years. A real treat. Proceeded to peruse every page of both periodicals. Enjoyed it immensely. And then I didn’t. Flipped through the pages a second time just to be sure.
>
> Not one sentence about amateur radio. Not one ad, not one picture, not one story. Peewee Harris was still there. Had a full page. Scouts who saved lives were still there. Covered two pages. Lots of ink about backpacking, crime safety, tenting, geocaching, campouts, evironmentalism, relationship building, dog care and other worthy endeavors. Zero ads for radios, signalling, SWLing, kit-building, satellite tracking, Morse Code, or electronic communications of any kind.
>
> At the very minimum, I would have thought the $1000 I give the League every year might be capable of placing an ARRL logo and web address in those two youth journals ... for the mildly curious ... but nothing.
>
> I got a decent haircut, though.
>
> 73,
>
> Kent K9ZTV
>
>
>
>> On Dec 16, 2019, at 1:54 PM, <[hidden email]> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> A few quick thoughts on this subject.
>>
>> Space exploration, colonization, and physics are the best "hooks" I see to
>> fish for the young people that are best prospects as future hams.
>>
>> Amateur radio is the best way to "touch" the world beyond the earth and to
>> get a "hands on" understanding of solar physics, electronic equipment,
>> electromagnetic fields, solar weather, and the harsh environments that are
>> Intersolar and interstellar space.
>>
>> Early involvement should come with hands on experiments, internships, summer
>> jobs, resume builders for college applications, and university work/study
>> programs in the communications, computer technology and defense industries.
>>
>> A sequenced set of building block project kits (Elecraft style would be
>> ideal) that introduce basic principles and result in a receiver, a
>> transmitter, and an antenna could provide a gateway, and present hams should
>> underwrite making these available at a low cost and with available "Elmers"
>> to help. This equipment could be used for radio astronomy, communications,
>> physics experiments, meteorology, and contesting. Contesting should be
>> portrayed as glamorous "yacht racing in space" and much cooler than on the
>> ocean.
>>
>> I believe we are at a second "Sputnik" point in the quest for the high
>> ground, and this is the time to grow more modern technologists, explorers,
>> and entrepreneurs and fewer snowflake philosophers and low information
>> consumers!
>>
>> What do you think?
>>
>> 73 John N5CQ
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

Dietmar Tietz

Re: THE FUTURE OF OUR HOBBY

In reply to this post by Ted Edwards W3TB

There is such more sophisticated HT: Kenwood TH-D74. In addition to FM VHF/UHF modes, it does have SSB and CW, D-star, etc for that frequency range.

Plus, it also functions as a receiver for the HF bands, including SSB and CW.

Contrary to local amateur radio club members' advice, I did not buy a Chinese model for $50, because I also wanted to explore HF and got myself a PK-Loop for that.

Even though I have been shortwave listening for over 40 years, it was only recently that I heard about ARRL and the licensing program. And I heard it from a German radio amateur friend. Never was I made aware of ham radio activities on the SWLING, the definitive website for shortwave listening. DXing seems to be a well-kept secret.

Dietmar
KC3OFB

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ted Edwards W3TB" <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Cc: "Elecraft Reflector" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Monday, December 16, 2019 4:42:52 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] THE FUTURE OF OUR HOBBY

Yet, here is another product idea that is driven by my concern that so many
new Techs get an HT and don't develop further into our fine hobby/avocation.
A Transceiver more significant than a Chinese cheapie for getting on other
modes in the VHF and/or UHF bands.
I do wish there were a quality-yet-simple radio for 6m/2m would be so handy
to them to discover SSB and Digital work on those bands. CW, too.

On Mon, Dec 16, 2019 at 12:52 PM Jim Brown <[hidden email]>
wrote:

--
73 de Ted Edwards, W3TB and GØPWW

and thinking about operating CW:
"Do today what others won't,
so you can do tomorrow what others can't."
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
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Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
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Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

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Message delivered to [hidden email]

Elecraft mailing list

Re: THE FUTURE OF OUR HOBBY

In reply to this post by Leroy Buller

Back in 1960 I bought my transmitter, an Eico 720 Kit for $79.95. My receiver at that time was a Knight-Kit R100.

The US inflation calculator says that $79.95 in 1960 is equal to about $695 today. This was a transmitter only and the only mode was CW and it was crystal controlled (no VFO). If you add in an almost equal amount for a receiver than today’s KX2 or even for that matter, a KX3 is a real bargain. That Eico 720 transmitter in 1960 was a nice rig but it was low end of the transmitter totem-pole.

A few years after that I upgraded my receiver to a Hammarlund HQ-170AC which was considered one of the great receivers for its day. However, it is no where close to be as good as the receiver on a KX3. That HQ-170AC was ~$329 (in 1965) and at today’s price would be equal to a ~$2700 purchase!

Rigs today, even the best ones, are cheap in comparison.

73, phil, K7PEH

> On Dec 16, 2019, at 10:19 AM, Leroy Buller <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> This is a concern of mine for Elecraft. A low cost entry rig with 100
> watts. Very hard to compete with I Y K for this market. Flex has the same
> issue but maybe the old man rich market is big enough for all players.
>
> Saving for a K4
>
> Lee
>
> On Mon, Dec 16, 2019, 10:03 AM Charlie T <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>>
>> Note to Wayne & Eric that an inexpensive entry level transceiver might find
>> market with newcomers on tight budgets (eg the K1, etc.); something other
>> than a VHF HT. KX2/KX3 are still a bit much for the college student or
>> newly graduated worker.
>>
>> 73, Ed - KL7UW
>>
>>
>> That's probably what the current non "S" version of the K3 will evolve
>> into.
>> Maybe even the K3s too with the introduction of the K4.
>>
>> 73, Charlie k3ICH
>>
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

David Gilbert

Re: The Future of Our Hobby

In reply to this post by wayne burdick

Neither would ham radio if you could talk to hundreds or thousands of
other planets or stars, and couldn't do so any other way. As best I
know, a telescope is still the only way to observe one.

73,
Dave AB7E

On 12/16/2019 1:44 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote:

> And yet, dabbling in a different part of the electromagnetic spectrum -- with simple optical telescopes -- never gets old.
>
> Wayne
>
>
>> On Dec 16, 2019, at 12:14 PM, David Gilbert <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Since you asked ...
>>
>> I'm not trying to be negative for the sake of being negative, but I think the young people interested in those things are going to immediately be drawn to hardware and software considerably more sophisticated than amateur radio. What you're expecting is the equivalent of people interested in neurosurgery to want to learn how to build a microscope. I agree that those will be interesting fields of study, but I don't think it will work the way you postulated. I'd bet that a microwave internet link to a base station on the moon would get much more use than anything related to ham radio.
>>
>> 73,
>> Dave AB7E
>>
>>
>>
>> On 12/16/2019 12:54 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
>>> A few quick thoughts on this subject.
>>>
>>> Space exploration, colonization, and physics are the best "hooks" I see to
>>> fish for the young people that are best prospects as future hams.
>>>
>>> Amateur radio is the best way to "touch" the world beyond the earth and to
>>> get a "hands on" understanding of solar physics, electronic equipment,
>>> electromagnetic fields, solar weather, and the harsh environments that are
>>> Intersolar and interstellar space.
>>>
>>> Early involvement should come with hands on experiments, internships, summer
>>> jobs, resume builders for college applications, and university work/study
>>> programs in the communications, computer technology and defense industries.
>>>
>>> A sequenced set of building block project kits (Elecraft style would be
>>> ideal) that introduce basic principles and result in a receiver, a
>>> transmitter, and an antenna could provide a gateway, and present hams should
>>> underwrite making these available at a low cost and with available "Elmers"
>>> to help. This equipment could be used for radio astronomy, communications,
>>> physics experiments, meteorology, and contesting. Contesting should be
>>> portrayed as glamorous "yacht racing in space" and much cooler than on the
>>> ocean.
>>>
>>> I believe we are at a second "Sputnik" point in the quest for the high
>>> ground, and this is the time to grow more modern technologists, explorers,
>>> and entrepreneurs and fewer snowflake philosophers and low information
>>> consumers!
>>>
>>> What do you think?
>>>
>>> 73 John N5CQ
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

Rick Bates, NK7I

Re: The Future of Our Hobby

An SWL QSL card would certainly be popular too if you could figure out
how to send the report! :-P

Merry Christmas all,
Rick NK7I

On 12/16/2019 3:10 PM, David Gilbert wrote:

>
> Neither would ham radio if you could talk to hundreds or thousands of
> other planets or stars, and couldn't do so any other way. As best I
> know, a telescope is still the only way to observe one.
>
> 73,
> Dave AB7E
>
>
>
> On 12/16/2019 1:44 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote:
>> And yet, dabbling in a different part of the electromagnetic spectrum
>> -- with simple optical telescopes -- never gets old.
>>
>> Wayne

Don Wilhelm

Re: THE FUTURE OF OUR HOBBY

In reply to this post by Ted Edwards W3TB

Ted and all,

I do not think restricting the choices to VHF and UHF gear is going to
"save the hobby".

There are few inexpensive ventures into HF available today. There are a
few inexpensive CW only kits available from QRPme.com, but those are
quite limited and are CW only. Oh to have the Dave Benson SWL series
back. Those were good kits which could put the new ham on the air with
a good receiver, but again CW only. I do not see any equivalent today.

The QRPme kits are interesting, but being CW only, they are limited to
those willing to learn CW. Even a 'knock-off' of the K1 is CW only.

For potentially new hams, we hams need to have something that is viable
for HF and not expensive. Remember the high schooler and the recent
college graduate who does not a lot of extra money. I do not see many
choices for them other than the inexpensive VHF/UHF FM transceivers,
which work fine with repeaters, but do nothing for the HF spectrum.
I built my first transmitter of salvaged TV parts at a very, very low
cost, but that was back in the late 1950's when such parts were
available many for the asking at the local TV repair shop.

A used HF transceiver may the only current logical choice.

Elecraft has championed the high performance, high end market, and has
done well at it, but that performance comes at a price. Few beginners
in ham radio can afford a K3S let alone a KX2, so for beginners, they
are "left in the lurch" with choices mainly in the used gear market.

Nostalgia for 'what was' is interesting, but does nothing for the
newcomers to HF with limited funds. Even the era of cheap surplus
military gear is gone. I used to buy Command set transmitters and
receivers for $5 each at the surplus store, and you could salvage parts
from them to build transmitters and receivers, but those rigs are
collectors items today and are expensive.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 12/16/2019 4:44 PM, Ted Edwards W3TB wrote:

> More...
> Although it has not happened, I have long expected June VHF and Sept VHF to
> displace Field Day and then get more of those many new Techs active.
>
> On Mon, Dec 16, 2019 at 3:42 PM Ted Edwards W3TB <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Yet, here is another product idea that is driven by my concern that so
>> many new Techs get an HT and don't develop further into our fine
>> hobby/avocation.
>> A Transceiver more significant than a Chinese cheapie for getting on other
>> modes in the VHF and/or UHF bands.
>> I do wish there were a quality-yet-simple radio for 6m/2m would be so
>> handy to them to discover SSB and Digital work on those bands. CW, too.
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 16, 2019 at 12:52 PM Jim Brown <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>

EricJ

Re: THE FUTURE OF OUR HOBBY

The QRP Labs QCX certainly meet that criteria. Single band (80, 60, 40,
30, 20, 17, pick one), LCD and controls included. Dual Si5351 VFO,
keyer, 5 watts, CAT, cw decoder, thru-hole, not to mention built in test
equipment for alignment and troubleshooting....$49. Add solder and
enclosure just like the SW+ series. QSX coming (some day) with SSB and
digital modes built in. There are a few others. Dave Benson designed a
new 4w SSB rig called the Phaser. Single band, SSB, not DSB. For
digital modes. You can duckduckgo it.

It's a tech hobby. Tech is always going to be relatively expensive for a
newcomer who is starting with nothing. Expensive in equipment and
expensive in time with a relatively steep initial learning curve.
Nothing there has changed. It's always been a sacrifice to many.

Eric KE6US

On 12/16/2019 6:37 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:

> Ted and all,
>
> I do not think restricting the choices to VHF and UHF gear is going to
> "save the hobby".
>
> There are few inexpensive ventures into HF available today. There are
> a few inexpensive CW only kits available from QRPme.com, but those are
> quite limited and are CW only. Oh to have the Dave Benson SWL series
> back. Those were good kits which could put the new ham on the air
> with a good receiver, but again CW only. I do not see any equivalent
> today.
>
> The QRPme kits are interesting, but being CW only, they are limited to
> those willing to learn CW. Even a 'knock-off' of the K1 is CW only.
>
> For potentially new hams, we hams need to have something that is
> viable for HF and not expensive. Remember the high schooler and the
> recent college graduate who does not a lot of extra money. I do not
> see many choices for them other than the inexpensive VHF/UHF FM
> transceivers, which work fine with repeaters, but do nothing for the
> HF spectrum.
> I built my first transmitter of salvaged TV parts at a very, very low
> cost, but that was back in the late 1950's when such parts were
> available many for the asking at the local TV repair shop.
>
> A used HF transceiver may the only current logical choice.
>
> Elecraft has championed the high performance, high end market, and has
> done well at it, but that performance comes at a price. Few beginners
> in ham radio can afford a K3S let alone a KX2, so for beginners, they
> are "left in the lurch" with choices mainly in the used gear market.
>
> Nostalgia for 'what was' is interesting, but does nothing for the
> newcomers to HF with limited funds. Even the era of cheap surplus
> military gear is gone. I used to buy Command set transmitters and
> receivers for $5 each at the surplus store, and you could salvage
> parts from them to build transmitters and receivers, but those rigs
> are collectors items today and are expensive.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
>
> On 12/16/2019 4:44 PM, Ted Edwards W3TB wrote:
>> More...
>> Although it has not happened, I have long expected June VHF and Sept
>> VHF to
>> displace Field Day and then get more of those many new Techs active.
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 16, 2019 at 3:42 PM Ted Edwards W3TB <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Yet, here is another product idea that is driven by my concern that so
>>> many new Techs get an HT and don't develop further into our fine
>>> hobby/avocation.
>>> A Transceiver more significant than a Chinese cheapie for getting on
>>> other
>>> modes in the VHF and/or UHF bands.
>>> I do wish there were a quality-yet-simple radio for 6m/2m would be so
>>> handy to them to discover SSB and Digital work on those bands. CW,
>>> too.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Dec 16, 2019 at 12:52 PM Jim Brown <[hidden email]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

Buddy Brannan

Re: THE FUTURE OF OUR HOBBY

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm

An interesting little rig to follow is the UBitx at
http://www.hfsignals.com/

$199 gets you a 3-30 MHz SSB/cw rig. Sure, no cw filter, and I’m sure the receiver ain’t no KX3 or even K2, but it’s hackable and pretty darned interesting for $200, or even as little as $150.

Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
Email: [hidden email]
Mobile: (814) 431-0962

> On Dec 16, 2019, at 9:37 PM, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Ted and all,
>
> I do not think restricting the choices to VHF and UHF gear is going to "save the hobby".
>
> There are few inexpensive ventures into HF available today. There are a few inexpensive CW only kits available from QRPme.com, but those are quite limited and are CW only. Oh to have the Dave Benson SWL series back. Those were good kits which could put the new ham on the air with a good receiver, but again CW only. I do not see any equivalent today.
>
> The QRPme kits are interesting, but being CW only, they are limited to those willing to learn CW. Even a 'knock-off' of the K1 is CW only.
>
> For potentially new hams, we hams need to have something that is viable for HF and not expensive. Remember the high schooler and the recent college graduate who does not a lot of extra money. I do not see many choices for them other than the inexpensive VHF/UHF FM transceivers, which work fine with repeaters, but do nothing for the HF spectrum.
> I built my first transmitter of salvaged TV parts at a very, very low cost, but that was back in the late 1950's when such parts were available many for the asking at the local TV repair shop.
>
> A used HF transceiver may the only current logical choice.
>
> Elecraft has championed the high performance, high end market, and has done well at it, but that performance comes at a price. Few beginners in ham radio can afford a K3S let alone a KX2, so for beginners, they are "left in the lurch" with choices mainly in the used gear market.
>
> Nostalgia for 'what was' is interesting, but does nothing for the newcomers to HF with limited funds. Even the era of cheap surplus military gear is gone. I used to buy Command set transmitters and receivers for $5 each at the surplus store, and you could salvage parts from them to build transmitters and receivers, but those rigs are collectors items today and are expensive.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
>
> On 12/16/2019 4:44 PM, Ted Edwards W3TB wrote:
>> More...
>> Although it has not happened, I have long expected June VHF and Sept VHF to
>> displace Field Day and then get more of those many new Techs active.
>> On Mon, Dec 16, 2019 at 3:42 PM Ted Edwards W3TB <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> Yet, here is another product idea that is driven by my concern that so
>>> many new Techs get an HT and don't develop further into our fine
>>> hobby/avocation.
>>> A Transceiver more significant than a Chinese cheapie for getting on other
>>> modes in the VHF and/or UHF bands.
>>> I do wish there were a quality-yet-simple radio for 6m/2m would be so
>>> handy to them to discover SSB and Digital work on those bands. CW, too.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Dec 16, 2019 at 12:52 PM Jim Brown <[hidden email]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

Fred Nassar

Re: THE FUTURE OF OUR HOBBY

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm

With all due respect, I disagree with the statement "there are few
inexpensive ventures into HF available today." I was licensed at 14 and
remember my first HF rig was an used HT-44 and DX-160. I used that pair for
six years and learned a lot about how to optimize my set up until I had
enough money to purchase my buddy's FT-101E for $400 (1981). After college
I was able to buy new gear using a TS 570 and 590S many years and now
using a flex 6400. With the advent of the IC7300 and other SDRs the used
market has been disrupted. Decent used HF rigs can be had for $300-$500
(cheaper than a new smart phone). Even a new 7300 or 590sg are within
reach for the new ham. Both very good rigs offering many to most of the
advance features that top of the line rigs offer. I think the movement to
SDRs will continue to offer very affordable albeit maybe not new and not
"state of the art", but very much usable and capable to make QSOs and more
importantly having fun.

I think what Elecraft does is unique and there is value in that. They bring
a high level of customer service and stay very close to the customer. They
almost seem like one of us hi hi...While the big three may offer more
tiers, they do so at the cost of other things some hams find important.
Elecraft has been around over 20 years and now launching what appear to be
a very successful K4. I think they are doing just fine with their business
model.

73,
Fred
KE4Q
owner of a KX3 and maybe a K4 someday

On Mon, Dec 16, 2019 at 9:39 PM Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Ted and all,
>
> I do not think restricting the choices to VHF and UHF gear is going to
> "save the hobby".
>
> There are few inexpensive ventures into HF available today. There are a
> few inexpensive CW only kits available from QRPme.com, but those are
> quite limited and are CW only. Oh to have the Dave Benson SWL series
> back. Those were good kits which could put the new ham on the air with
> a good receiver, but again CW only. I do not see any equivalent today.
>
> The QRPme kits are interesting, but being CW only, they are limited to
> those willing to learn CW. Even a 'knock-off' of the K1 is CW only.
>
> For potentially new hams, we hams need to have something that is viable
> for HF and not expensive. Remember the high schooler and the recent
> college graduate who does not a lot of extra money. I do not see many
> choices for them other than the inexpensive VHF/UHF FM transceivers,
> which work fine with repeaters, but do nothing for the HF spectrum.
> I built my first transmitter of salvaged TV parts at a very, very low
> cost, but that was back in the late 1950's when such parts were
> available many for the asking at the local TV repair shop.
>
> A used HF transceiver may the only current logical choice.
>
> Elecraft has championed the high performance, high end market, and has
> done well at it, but that performance comes at a price. Few beginners
> in ham radio can afford a K3S let alone a KX2, so for beginners, they
> are "left in the lurch" with choices mainly in the used gear market.
>
> Nostalgia for 'what was' is interesting, but does nothing for the
> newcomers to HF with limited funds. Even the era of cheap surplus
> military gear is gone. I used to buy Command set transmitters and
> receivers for $5 each at the surplus store, and you could salvage parts
> from them to build transmitters and receivers, but those rigs are
> collectors items today and are expensive.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
>
> On 12/16/2019 4:44 PM, Ted Edwards W3TB wrote:
> > More...
> > Although it has not happened, I have long expected June VHF and Sept VHF
> to
> > displace Field Day and then get more of those many new Techs active.
> >
> > On Mon, Dec 16, 2019 at 3:42 PM Ted Edwards W3TB <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >
> >> Yet, here is another product idea that is driven by my concern that so
> >> many new Techs get an HT and don't develop further into our fine
> >> hobby/avocation.
> >> A Transceiver more significant than a Chinese cheapie for getting on
> other
> >> modes in the VHF and/or UHF bands.
> >> I do wish there were a quality-yet-simple radio for 6m/2m would be so
> >> handy to them to discover SSB and Digital work on those bands. CW, too.
> >>
> >> On Mon, Dec 16, 2019 at 12:52 PM Jim Brown <[hidden email]>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

Nate Bargmann

Re: THE FUTURE OF OUR HOBBY

In reply to this post by Buddy Brannan

* On 2019 16 Dec 23:18 -0600, Buddy Brannan wrote:
> An interesting little rig to follow is the UBitx at
> http://www.hfsignals.com/
>
> $199 gets you a 3-30 MHz SSB/cw rig. Sure, no cw filter, and I’m sure
> the receiver ain’t no KX3 or even K2, but it’s hackable and pretty
> darned interesting for $200, or even as little as $150.

I suspect it's the hackability aspect that makes this a popular option
among some operators. I think this is the "hook" a lot of techie
oriented prospective hams are looking for.

73, Nate, N0NB

--

"The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
possible worlds. The pessimist fears this is true."

Web: https://www.n0nb.us
Projects: https://github.com/N0NB
GPG fingerprint: 82D6 4F6B 0E67 CD41 F689 BBA6 FB2C 5130 D55A 8819

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

Bjorn Pehrson

Re: THE FUTURE OF OUR HOBBY

hm, verkar vara svårt tt hitta genomskinlig Sikaflex trots att sika
säger att det ska finnas i alla byggvarubutiker. Jag har svart och det
finns vit att köpa. Har försökt googla runt.

Känner du till något speciellt märke och var man kan köpa det?

On 2019-12-17 15:57, Nate Bargmann wrote:

> * On 2019 16 Dec 23:18 -0600, Buddy Brannan wrote:
>> An interesting little rig to follow is the UBitx at
>> http://www.hfsignals.com/
>>
>> $199 gets you a 3-30 MHz SSB/cw rig. Sure, no cw filter, and I’m sure
>> the receiver ain’t no KX3 or even K2, but it’s hackable and pretty
>> darned interesting for $200, or even as little as $150.
> I suspect it's the hackability aspect that makes this a popular option
> among some operators. I think this is the "hook" a lot of techie
> oriented prospective hams are looking for.
>
> 73, Nate, N0NB
>

Bjorn Pehrson

Re: THE FUTURE OF OUR HOBBY

Sorry abt that ,my bad, wrong recipient...

On 2019-12-17 16:22, Bjorn Pehrson wrote:
> hm, verkar vara svårt tt hitta genomskinlig Sikaflex trots att sika
> säger att det ska finnas i alla byggvarubutiker. Jag har svart och det
> finns vit att köpa. Har försökt googla runt.
>
> Känner du till något speciellt märke och var man kan köpa det?
>
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

Ted Edwards W3TB

Re: THE FUTURE OF OUR HOBBY

I am not talking about "restricting" but rather making available what is
not available for those hams.
It would do the Technicians a lot of good to discover other mode
availabilities within their current licenses and help to move them ahead
beyond HTs and repeaters.

On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 9:26 AM Bjorn Pehrson <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Sorry abt that ,my bad, wrong recipient...
>
> On 2019-12-17 16:22, Bjorn Pehrson wrote:
> > hm, verkar vara svårt tt hitta genomskinlig Sikaflex trots att sika
> > säger att det ska finnas i alla byggvarubutiker. Jag har svart och det
> > finns vit att köpa. Har försökt googla runt.
> >
> > Känner du till något speciellt märke och var man kan köpa det?
> >
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

Tommy

Re: THE FUTURE OF OUR HOBBY

In reply to this post by Bjorn Pehrson

LOL! No problem, for a second there I thought I had a tumor!

And I agree with Fred's last post. Although I'd never pay $500 or more
for a "smart" phone.

73 de Tom - KB2SMS

On 12/17/19 10:24 AM, Bjorn Pehrson wrote:
> Sorry abt that ,my bad, wrong recipient...
>
> On 2019-12-17 16:22, Bjorn Pehrson wrote:
>> hm, verkar vara svårt tt hitta genomskinlig Sikaflex trots att sika
>> säger att det ska finnas i alla byggvarubutiker. Jag har svart och
>> det finns vit att köpa. Har försökt googla runt.
>>
>> Känner du till något speciellt märke och var man kan köpa det?
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

Bob McGraw - K4TAX

Re: THE FUTURE OF OUR HOBBY

In reply to this post by Fred Nassar

One of my ventures into ham radio was the purchase of a complete Heathkit station. While the original SB-104 left a lot to be desired, the fact that Heath offered financing for the complete purchase. Don’t recall the details but I made monthly payments until it was paid in full.

Bob, K4TAX

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 17, 2019, at 9:08 AM, Fred Nassar <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> With all due respect, I disagree with the statement "there are few
> inexpensive ventures into HF available today." I was licensed at 14 and
> remember my first HF rig was an used HT-44 and DX-160. I used that pair for
> six years and learned a lot about how to optimize my set up until I had
> enough money to purchase my buddy's FT-101E for $400 (1981). After college
> I was able to buy new gear using a TS 570 and 590S many years and now
> using a flex 6400. With the advent of the IC7300 and other SDRs the used
> market has been disrupted. Decent used HF rigs can be had for $300-$500
> (cheaper than a new smart phone). Even a new 7300 or 590sg are within
> reach for the new ham. Both very good rigs offering many to most of the
> advance features that top of the line rigs offer. I think the movement to
> SDRs will continue to offer very affordable albeit maybe not new and not
> "state of the art", but very much usable and capable to make QSOs and more
> importantly having fun.
>
> I think what Elecraft does is unique and there is value in that. They bring
> a high level of customer service and stay very close to the customer. They
> almost seem like one of us hi hi...While the big three may offer more
> tiers, they do so at the cost of other things some hams find important.
> Elecraft has been around over 20 years and now launching what appear to be
> a very successful K4. I think they are doing just fine with their business
> model.
>
> 73,
> Fred
> KE4Q
> owner of a KX3 and maybe a K4 someday
>
>> On Mon, Dec 16, 2019 at 9:39 PM Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Ted and all,
>>
>> I do not think restricting the choices to VHF and UHF gear is going to
>> "save the hobby".
>>
>> There are few inexpensive ventures into HF available today. There are a
>> few inexpensive CW only kits available from QRPme.com, but those are
>> quite limited and are CW only. Oh to have the Dave Benson SWL series
>> back. Those were good kits which could put the new ham on the air with
>> a good receiver, but again CW only. I do not see any equivalent today.
>>
>> The QRPme kits are interesting, but being CW only, they are limited to
>> those willing to learn CW. Even a 'knock-off' of the K1 is CW only.
>>
>> For potentially new hams, we hams need to have something that is viable
>> for HF and not expensive. Remember the high schooler and the recent
>> college graduate who does not a lot of extra money. I do not see many
>> choices for them other than the inexpensive VHF/UHF FM transceivers,
>> which work fine with repeaters, but do nothing for the HF spectrum.
>> I built my first transmitter of salvaged TV parts at a very, very low
>> cost, but that was back in the late 1950's when such parts were
>> available many for the asking at the local TV repair shop.
>>
>> A used HF transceiver may the only current logical choice.
>>
>> Elecraft has championed the high performance, high end market, and has
>> done well at it, but that performance comes at a price. Few beginners
>> in ham radio can afford a K3S let alone a KX2, so for beginners, they
>> are "left in the lurch" with choices mainly in the used gear market.
>>
>> Nostalgia for 'what was' is interesting, but does nothing for the
>> newcomers to HF with limited funds. Even the era of cheap surplus
>> military gear is gone. I used to buy Command set transmitters and
>> receivers for $5 each at the surplus store, and you could salvage parts
>> from them to build transmitters and receivers, but those rigs are
>> collectors items today and are expensive.
>>
>> 73,
>> Don W3FPR
>>
>>
>>> On 12/16/2019 4:44 PM, Ted Edwards W3TB wrote:
>>> More...
>>> Although it has not happened, I have long expected June VHF and Sept VHF
>> to
>>> displace Field Day and then get more of those many new Techs active.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Dec 16, 2019 at 3:42 PM Ted Edwards W3TB <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Yet, here is another product idea that is driven by my concern that so
>>>> many new Techs get an HT and don't develop further into our fine
>>>> hobby/avocation.
>>>> A Transceiver more significant than a Chinese cheapie for getting on
>> other
>>>> modes in the VHF and/or UHF bands.
>>>> I do wish there were a quality-yet-simple radio for 6m/2m would be so
>>>> handy to them to discover SSB and Digital work on those bands. CW, too.
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Dec 16, 2019 at 12:52 PM Jim Brown <[hidden email]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

KENT TRIMBLE

Re: THE FUTURE OF OUR HOBBY

In reply to this post by kd4iz

We might take a page from Cadillac.

Somewhere in the early 2000s their ads began using models and actors
exclusively in the 20-40 age range. No more gray-haired executives.

Jack makes good points.

Why do they call you "weird," by the way?

73,

Kent K9ZTV

On 12/16/2019 3:07 PM, [hidden email] wrote:

> Have any of us ever tried to poll younger non-related and non-ham persons in
> a structured way? Probably not ...
>
> Introspectively, what I do see is one generation of an old civic (mostly
> men's) club in a panic because we perceive we are all dying off and there
> will be no one to "carry on". An awfully large group of people look at "us" as odd or funny old dudes...
> The media has never helped us much. Ham radio is just a TV prop and usually used to poke fun at
> certain attitudes. OTOH the actual high value stuff we occasionally do is
> all too often relegated to 11pm local news as "filler" if it is reported at
> all. Who failed? Not even worth pointing fingers... we did.
>
> Embrace it, have fun with the hobby, chill, let the marketing departments at
> "IKY" and "China-Inc" figure out the sales pitch. We geeks will still be
> here in the future and some will be hams... and we'll line up for the latest
> widgets. Let's move on.
>
> 73 All,
> "Weird Uncle Jack"
> KD4IZ
> Jack Spitznagel
> FM19oo
>
>

123