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Re: split pileup and listening was Pileups and KPA500/ST0R

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KD8NNU

Re: split pileup and listening was Pileups and KPA500/ST0R

Bob,

I have never understood this whole split operation setup much less
figuring out how to listen to someone working split and doing what you
stated below.

Would you please try and explain it to me. Others have tried but for
some reason i just dont get it, or it wont sink in.

I was on the radio yesterday and saw many folks calling ST0R and figured
that wont work so well.

Thanks

~73
Don
KD8NNU

On Sun, Jul 31, 2011 at 8:22 AM, bob finger wrote:

> I have been fascinated reading this thread. Listening to the ST0R
> operation on many bands has been interesting to say the least. You
> all that complain about the radio not automatically going into split
> really don't have a clue. The K3 makes working rare dx a relatively
> simple task, from the radio perspective at least. Antennas help too
> of course.
>
> One of the first rules of chasing dx in a split pile-up is knowing
> where the dx is listening. You can't learn that if you are not in
> split before you ever make a call! Listen! Find out how he is
> operating and where he is listening. Once you know that simple fact
> getting in the log is pretty easy. 90% of the callers in the ST0R
> pile are calling blind, and wasting their time and energy. Be one of
> the 10% that think before transmitting and you will be in the log.
> The guys at ST0R are super fine ops. Wish I could say the same for
> everyone calling. I have spent many hours listening to ST0R, have
> them in the log wherever I wanted and have a TOTAL trasmit time of
> maybe 5 or 6 minutes. I've been listening for maybe 10 or 12 hours.
> I used the amp on 20, because that is the band that counts for me.
> Other band q's were with the k3 barefoot running only about 50 watts.
> Its a bit more of a challenge that way for me. Okay off soapbox now.
> 73 bob de w9ge
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Mark Stennett

Re: split pileup and listening was Pileups and KPA500/ST0R

I have used this split technique quite successfully and the K3 makes it
a breeze.

The first secret is to wear your headphones. Put the K3 in split and you
will hear the main receiver in your left ear while the right ear now has
the sub receiver. Set up your filters to your liking.

Listen on the main receiver and transmit on the sub receiver. Park the
main receiver on the DX and lock the dial so you don't accidentally bump
it. Slowly tune the sub receiver up the dial from the DX until you start
to hear the other stations the DX is working. Determine if there is a
pattern by continuing to listen - is the DX working stations further up
the dial after each contact? Down the dial? Listening on the same
frequency call after call? Read the mail, get familiar with his style.

The second secret is timing. To work the DX through the pileup you have
to put your signal where the DX is listening at that moment. By figuring
out his operating style you have a distinct advantage over most of those
ops who are blindly calling. Because of the pileup the DX likely has his
receiver running narrow. Zero beat your transmit VFO with the guy he is
working and drop your call as soon as he is finished. If the DX is
moving up the dial after each contact, move your VFO slightly above that
guy and make your call. Try to anticipate where the DX will be listening
next.

While I have not tried for ST0R yet I have broken through many pileups
on my first or second call, using the KPA500, a vertical dipole on CW
and this technique.

73 de na6m

On 07/31/2011 07:38 AM, [hidden email] wrote:

> Bob,
>
> I have never understood this whole split operation setup much less
> figuring out how to listen to someone working split and doing what you
> stated below.
>
> Would you please try and explain it to me. Others have tried but for
> some reason i just dont get it, or it wont sink in.
>
> I was on the radio yesterday and saw many folks calling ST0R and figured
> that wont work so well.
>
> Thanks
>
> ~73
> Don
> KD8NNU
>
>
> On Sun, Jul 31, 2011 at 8:22 AM, bob finger wrote:
>
>> I have been fascinated reading this thread. Listening to the ST0R
>> operation on many bands has been interesting to say the least. You
>> all that complain about the radio not automatically going into split
>> really don't have a clue. The K3 makes working rare dx a relatively
>> simple task, from the radio perspective at least. Antennas help too
>> of course.
>>
>> One of the first rules of chasing dx in a split pile-up is knowing
>> where the dx is listening. You can't learn that if you are not in
>> split before you ever make a call! Listen! Find out how he is
>> operating and where he is listening. Once you know that simple fact
>> getting in the log is pretty easy. 90% of the callers in the ST0R
>> pile are calling blind, and wasting their time and energy. Be one of
>> the 10% that think before transmitting and you will be in the log.
>> The guys at ST0R are super fine ops. Wish I could say the same for
>> everyone calling. I have spent many hours listening to ST0R, have
>> them in the log wherever I wanted and have a TOTAL trasmit time of
>> maybe 5 or 6 minutes. I've been listening for maybe 10 or 12 hours.
>> I used the amp on 20, because that is the band that counts for me.
>> Other band q's were with the k3 barefoot running only about 50 watts.
>> Its a bit more of a challenge that way for me. Okay off soapbox now.
>> 73 bob de w9ge
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
>

KD8NNU

Re: split pileup and listening was Pileups and KPA500/ST0R

In reply to this post by KD8NNU

I dont have the two receivers so that is the first thing that puts me at
a disadvantage.

However, when someone is spotted and they say for example "2.4 UP", I
assume that means something split. So if I listen on VFO A that would
be their transmitt frq and I would transmitt on VFO B up 2.4 khz or do I
have it backwards?

Thanks

~73
Don
KD8NNU

On Sun, Jul 31, 2011 at 9:14 AM, Mark Stennett wrote:

> I have used this split technique quite successfully and the K3 makes
> it a breeze.
>
> The first secret is to wear your headphones. Put the K3 in split and
> you will hear the main receiver in your left ear while the right ear
> now has the sub receiver. Set up your filters to your liking.
>
> Listen on the main receiver and transmit on the sub receiver. Park the
> main receiver on the DX and lock the dial so you don't accidentally
> bump it. Slowly tune the sub receiver up the dial from the DX until
> you start to hear the other stations the DX is working. Determine if
> there is a pattern by continuing to listen - is the DX working
> stations further up the dial after each contact? Down the dial?
> Listening on the same frequency call after call? Read the mail, get
> familiar with his style.
>
> The second secret is timing. To work the DX through the pileup you
> have to put your signal where the DX is listening at that moment. By
> figuring out his operating style you have a distinct advantage over
> most of those ops who are blindly calling. Because of the pileup the
> DX likely has his receiver running narrow. Zero beat your transmit VFO
> with the guy he is working and drop your call as soon as he is
> finished. If the DX is moving up the dial after each contact, move
> your VFO slightly above that guy and make your call. Try to anticipate
> where the DX will be listening next.
>
> While I have not tried for ST0R yet I have broken through many pileups
> on my first or second call, using the KPA500, a vertical dipole on CW
> and this technique.
>
> 73 de na6m
>
>
> On 07/31/2011 07:38 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
>> Bob,
>>
>> I have never understood this whole split operation setup much less
>> figuring out how to listen to someone working split and doing what
>> you
>> stated below.
>>
>> Would you please try and explain it to me. Others have tried but
>> for
>> some reason i just dont get it, or it wont sink in.
>>
>> I was on the radio yesterday and saw many folks calling ST0R and
>> figured
>> that wont work so well.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> ~73
>> Don
>> KD8NNU
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Jul 31, 2011 at 8:22 AM, bob finger wrote:
>>
>>> I have been fascinated reading this thread. Listening to the ST0R
>>> operation on many bands has been interesting to say the least. You
>>> all that complain about the radio not automatically going into split
>>> really don't have a clue. The K3 makes working rare dx a relatively
>>> simple task, from the radio perspective at least. Antennas help too
>>> of course.
>>>
>>> One of the first rules of chasing dx in a split pile-up is knowing
>>> where the dx is listening. You can't learn that if you are not in
>>> split before you ever make a call! Listen! Find out how he is
>>> operating and where he is listening. Once you know that simple fact
>>> getting in the log is pretty easy. 90% of the callers in the ST0R
>>> pile are calling blind, and wasting their time and energy. Be one
>>> of
>>> the 10% that think before transmitting and you will be in the log.
>>> The guys at ST0R are super fine ops. Wish I could say the same for
>>> everyone calling. I have spent many hours listening to ST0R, have
>>> them in the log wherever I wanted and have a TOTAL trasmit time of
>>> maybe 5 or 6 minutes. I've been listening for maybe 10 or 12 hours.
>>> I used the amp on 20, because that is the band that counts for me.
>>> Other band q's were with the k3 barefoot running only about 50
>>> watts.
>>> Its a bit more of a challenge that way for me. Okay off soapbox
>>> now.
>>> 73 bob de w9ge
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
>>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Mark Stennett

Re: split pileup and listening was Pileups and KPA500/ST0R

You can do this with RIT/XIT also but not as elegantly as with a second
receiver running in split.

You are correct in your assessment.

On 07/31/2011 09:05 AM, [hidden email] wrote:

> I dont have the two receivers so that is the first thing that puts me at
> a disadvantage.
>
> However, when someone is spotted and they say for example "2.4 UP", I
> assume that means something split. So if I listen on VFO A that would be
> their transmitt frq and I would transmitt on VFO B up 2.4 khz or do I
> have it backwards?
>
> Thanks
>
> ~73
> Don
> KD8NNU
>
>
> On Sun, Jul 31, 2011 at 9:14 AM, Mark Stennett wrote:
>
>> I have used this split technique quite successfully and the K3 makes
>> it a breeze.
>>
>> The first secret is to wear your headphones. Put the K3 in split and
>> you will hear the main receiver in your left ear while the right ear
>> now has the sub receiver. Set up your filters to your liking.
>>
>> Listen on the main receiver and transmit on the sub receiver. Park the
>> main receiver on the DX and lock the dial so you don't accidentally
>> bump it. Slowly tune the sub receiver up the dial from the DX until
>> you start to hear the other stations the DX is working. Determine if
>> there is a pattern by continuing to listen - is the DX working
>> stations further up the dial after each contact? Down the dial?
>> Listening on the same frequency call after call? Read the mail, get
>> familiar with his style.
>>
>> The second secret is timing. To work the DX through the pileup you
>> have to put your signal where the DX is listening at that moment. By
>> figuring out his operating style you have a distinct advantage over
>> most of those ops who are blindly calling. Because of the pileup the
>> DX likely has his receiver running narrow. Zero beat your transmit VFO
>> with the guy he is working and drop your call as soon as he is
>> finished. If the DX is moving up the dial after each contact, move
>> your VFO slightly above that guy and make your call. Try to anticipate
>> where the DX will be listening next.
>>
>> While I have not tried for ST0R yet I have broken through many pileups
>> on my first or second call, using the KPA500, a vertical dipole on CW
>> and this technique.
>>
>> 73 de na6m
>>
>>
>> On 07/31/2011 07:38 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
>>> Bob,
>>>
>>> I have never understood this whole split operation setup much less
>>> figuring out how to listen to someone working split and doing what you
>>> stated below.
>>>
>>> Would you please try and explain it to me. Others have tried but for
>>> some reason i just dont get it, or it wont sink in.
>>>
>>> I was on the radio yesterday and saw many folks calling ST0R and figured
>>> that wont work so well.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> ~73
>>> Don
>>> KD8NNU
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jul 31, 2011 at 8:22 AM, bob finger wrote:
>>>
>>>> I have been fascinated reading this thread. Listening to the ST0R
>>>> operation on many bands has been interesting to say the least. You
>>>> all that complain about the radio not automatically going into split
>>>> really don't have a clue. The K3 makes working rare dx a relatively
>>>> simple task, from the radio perspective at least. Antennas help too
>>>> of course.
>>>>
>>>> One of the first rules of chasing dx in a split pile-up is knowing
>>>> where the dx is listening. You can't learn that if you are not in
>>>> split before you ever make a call! Listen! Find out how he is
>>>> operating and where he is listening. Once you know that simple fact
>>>> getting in the log is pretty easy. 90% of the callers in the ST0R
>>>> pile are calling blind, and wasting their time and energy. Be one of
>>>> the 10% that think before transmitting and you will be in the log.
>>>> The guys at ST0R are super fine ops. Wish I could say the same for
>>>> everyone calling. I have spent many hours listening to ST0R, have
>>>> them in the log wherever I wanted and have a TOTAL trasmit time of
>>>> maybe 5 or 6 minutes. I've been listening for maybe 10 or 12 hours.
>>>> I used the amp on 20, because that is the band that counts for me.
>>>> Other band q's were with the k3 barefoot running only about 50 watts.
>>>> Its a bit more of a challenge that way for me. Okay off soapbox now.
>>>> 73 bob de w9ge
>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>>
>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
>

Don Wilhelm-4

Re: split pileup and listening was Pileups and KPA500/ST0R

In reply to this post by KD8NNU

Don,

Using your example ---
Yes, you put the K3 in split and move VFO B 2.4 kHz higher than VFO A.
You should listen on your transmit frequency (he may not be listening
exactly 2.4 kHz up), and you can do that by holding the REV button.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 7/31/2011 10:05 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
> I dont have the two receivers so that is the first thing that puts me at
> a disadvantage.
>
> However, when someone is spotted and they say for example "2.4 UP", I
> assume that means something split. So if I listen on VFO A that would
> be their transmitt frq and I would transmitt on VFO B up 2.4 khz or do I
> have it backwards?
>
>
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
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KC6CNN

Re: split pileup and listening was Pileups and KPA500/ST0R

CONTENTS DELETED

The author has deleted this message.

Cady, Fred

Re: split pileup and listening was Pileups and KPA500/ST0R

In reply to this post by KD8NNU

Hi Don (et. al.)

I put a fair amount of explanation of split operation in "The Elecraft
K3: Design, Configuration and Operation." You can see some of it by
going to
http://www.ke7x.com/home/guide-to-the-k3/chapter-3-1
and scrolling down to section 3.2.10.
Give it a try. It is very satisfying (at least to me) to figure out how
and where the dx is working and then to be able to jump in and work it.
I got the ST0 on 20m running barefoot with a dipole. (I do have the
advantage of the second receiver and a P3, though).
Good luck and 73,

Fred Cady, KE7X
fcady at ieee dot org
www.ke7x.com

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:elecraft-
> [hidden email]] On Behalf Of [hidden email]
> Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2011 6:39 AM
> To: bob finger
> Cc: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] split pileup and listening was Pileups and
> KPA500/ST0R
>
> Bob,
>
> I have never understood this whole split operation setup much less
> figuring out how to listen to someone working split and doing what you
> stated below.
>
> Would you please try and explain it to me. Others have tried but

for

> some reason i just dont get it, or it wont sink in.
>
> I was on the radio yesterday and saw many folks calling ST0R and
> figured
> that wont work so well.
>
> Thanks
>
> ~73
> Don
> KD8NNU
>

Moe

Re: split pileup and listening was Pileups and KPA500/ST0R

In reply to this post by Mark Stennett

On Jul 31, 2011, at 10:13 AM, Mark Stennett wrote:

> You can do this with RIT/XIT also but not as elegantly as with a second
> receiver running in split.

For the sake of those who don't understand that method… obviously, with one VFO and no split, we have no choice but to use RIT with the KX1.

I tune through the pile-up with RIT off, listening for where others are making contact with the DX, noting any trend in changes to that. I stop where I want to transmit, engage RIT and tune to the DX transmit frequency. When the time comes, I PLaY memory 2, my call sign a couple of times, and listen for my call sign to be returned. If he calls someone else, I repeat the process (RIT off, etc), finding where he was listening last again. When RIT is on, the decimal point on the frequency display flashes as a reminder.

The main problem with using RIT is that if I change my transmit frequency, I have to readjust RIT to get back on the DX transmit frequency, since RIT is an offset of the transmit frequency. That's not necessary when using two VFOs split. You can elegantly adjust one without affecting the other.

Not having anything to do with this subject, memory 1 on my KX1 is a 3x2 CQ and rePeat (hold PLaY) is set to a minimum of 15 seconds.

I hope this helps someone.
--
Moe - AB8XA
Elecraft KX1 #2484, Fists #13020, SKCC #7460,
FPQRP #2617, NAQCC #5352, QRP-ARCI #14326

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n7ws

Re: split pileup and listening was Pileups and KPA500/ST0R

In reply to this post by KD8NNU

The first thing you need to do is live three or four skip zones closer to the DX so that you
can say, "Worked ST0R on the first call on six-meters using my wet string dipole and my K3 dialed down to only 10 watts...don't know why the rest of you are having so much trouble."

Absent that, what you understand is true. However, the second most important thing to do is NOT to automatically transmit 2.4 KHz up, unless you're in the one hop zone,
because every other guy, except me, is also transmitting 2.4 KHz up. Disconnect yourself from the spotting network and listen.

I'm like you and don't have a second receiver. I do have an SDR-IQ and can see the pileup, but this is an aid, not a necessity. Here is my technique:

True Split operation: (I only use this method if the
split is greater than 10 KHz, otherwise I use the XIT/RIT method I'll describe later.) Tune in the DX using VFO A. How strong is he? If he's S3 here in AZ and the guys spotting him are saying he's S9+ in NY, I'm probably going to do something else for awhile. But let's say that he's strong enough to be workable. [Lock] the dial and do an A/B swap. Now you can use the main tuning knob to find the pileup and get the flavor of what the competition is doing.

If you listen and determine that the stations working him really are all doing it up 2.4 KHz, then you know he's not tuning between Qs and you are going to have to rely on timing and/or being louder than everyone else. Do another A/B swap and start calling. Otherwise, continue to listen to the pile, trying to find the guys that are giving him a report. You can generally tell when he's transmitting because the pile will die down, except for the
guys who won't be working him because they are calling when he is transmitting. See if you can deduce a pattern in where he is listening. Sometimes there simply isn't one and/or propagation is such that you really can't hear many or any stations working him. You're going to have to pick a spot and rely on timing, propagation, luck or the (yuck) spotting network. Do an A/B swap so you hear the DX on A and have at it.

In the case where he is clearly changing his listen frequency from time to time you need to anticipate where he will listen next. For this you need to try to hear the last guy he worked. If you are back to listening on A, the [REV] button becomes your friend. On a good day, I can press the [REV] button with a finger and tune the VFO with my thumb, but you might have to make this a two-handed operation. Regardless of how you do it, [REV] temporarily allows you to listen to and change if
necessary, what will be your TX
frequency.

Alternative XIT/RIT method: If the split is less than 10 KHz than I personally far prefer to use the XIT and RIT controls. As before, tune in the DX and [Lock] the VFO, make sure [Split] is off. Everything else about listening, anticipating, timing, etc, remains the same.

Now to listen to the pile and set a TX frequency, turn on (tap) both RIT and XIT. The RIT/XIT control knob is now the tuning knob. As you turn it, you are listening on what will be your TX frequency, the "B" display will momentarily show the offset and the "A" display will show the actual frequency. When you have picked a TX freq, tap the RIT button and you are back to listening to the DX and when you transmit it will be at the offset frequency.

If you fail to be heard, you can either sit tight or if you choose to find the station that's working him you can tap RIT and tune for him. Tap RIT
again and you're back to listening to the DX. I find it easier to do this with the RIT button and knob next to each other that trying to hold the REV button while tuning the VFO knob.

Regardless of technique, listen, listen, listen. He can't hear you when he's transmitting, he won't answer you if he's calling for sevens and you're an eight. If he is on 14.195 and as one DXpedition op said, "Listening up five to ten....... and... 14.190", then you really want to, as I did, call him on 14.190, while everyone else is calling up five to ten.

N7WS

--- On Sun, 7/31/11, [hidden email] <[hidden email]> wrote:

I dont have the two receivers so that is the first thing that puts me at
a disadvantage.

However, when someone is spotted and they say for
example "2.4 UP", I
assume that means something split. So if I listen on VFO A that would
be their transmitt frq and I would transmitt on VFO B up 2.4 khz or do I
have it backwards?

Thanks

~73
Don
KD8NNU

______________________________________________________________
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Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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Post: mailto:[hidden email]

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AC7AC

Re: split pileup and listening was Pileups and KPA500/ST0R

In reply to this post by KC6CNN

CONTENTS DELETED

The author has deleted this message.

Tony Estep

Re: split pileup and listening was Pileups and KPA500/ST0R

"...When I chased DX there was no split, we conserved bandwidth...."
==========
This is a strange statement. I was licensed in 1958, and soon got interested
in DX. In those days the DX columns of CQ and QST were filled with anguished
pleas for stations to work split and never transmit on the DX frequency.
This is still the case today -- recent columns in both magazines sound just
like those from 1958 -- and always has been as far as I know.

My Elmers, W0AJU and W0QDF, were honor roll DXers who tried to teach me the
ropes. I once got a terse phone-call from one of them when I inadvertently
called on the DX frequency. (Even today I never transmit with VFO A. When
working simplex I just set A>B. I'm always in split mode.)

Of course, in those days there were no transceivers, so tuning Rx and Tx
independently was part of normal operation. Everybody knew how to do it, or
they didn't operate. Now the simple act of tuning your radio seems to be a
mystery. I guess that if you don't use CW and you operate phone simplex you
can work some DX, but the rare ones will remain beyond your reach.

It ain't hard. As one poster observed, the K3 makes it as easy as any radio
can make it. The Yaesu FT1000 radios were designed explicitly for split
operation, and they revolutionized DXing. The K3 has the same setup, but
improved with a better main and much better 2nd receiver, better control of
what you hear in the headphones, etc.

If you don't know how to receive on one frequency and transmit on another,
spend some time learning how. Only then can you really appreciate what your
K3 is, and why.

Tony KT0NY
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AC7AC

Re: split pileup and listening was Pileups and KPA500/ST0R

CONTENTS DELETED

The author has deleted this message.

Bill Steffey NY9H

Re: split pileup and listening

In reply to this post by KD8NNU

to Don who said"
""I have never understood this whole split operation

one of our fellow K3 owners and an old neighbor, Bob W9KNI wrote a
book on working DX, In fact it is " THE BOOK' on working DX....

not only does it thoroughly go thru all the variations of working
split , it has many if not all the little "techniques" of working
split efficiently....

if you have not read it , and you want to work DX you have been
reading the wrong stuff.....check it out....
http://www.idiompress.com/books-complete-dxer.html

I buy worn out copies at hamfests and pass them to friends....

bill ny9h/3

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N2TK

Re: split pileup and listening was Pileups and KPA500/ST0R

In reply to this post by Mark Stennett

Mark,
Very good advice. I normally run the bandwidth about 300HZ listening to the
DX. But with the other VFO I open up the bandwidth to at least 1KHZ so I can
tune around and more easily find the station the DX is working. After the DX
works a few stations hopefully I get the feel of his/her pattern. Then I
have an educated guess as to where I should transmit to work them quickly -
some DX camp on a frequency until it gets too unruly, some go up or down in
slight increments, some jump up or down in fixed increments using memory
buttons to keep the rate up. Some even say listening up and purposely listen
down to manage the pileups. It sure helps to listen first to find the
pattern before just sending into the ether.
On SSB it is more difficult with typically wider spread of signals. But you
can usually find the pattern there too. And the P3 helps with this too to
find the station the DX is working if out of your bandwidth.

The K3 is very easy to use SPLIT. I have programmed PF1 for SPLIT, same
MODE, up 2KHZ. Sure beats the way we used to do it in the day of tube rigs
and even some of the newer SS rigs.

ST0R - 8 bands so far.

73,
N2TK, Tony

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Mark Stennett
Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2011 9:14 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] split pileup and listening was Pileups and
KPA500/ST0R

I have used this split technique quite successfully and the K3 makes it
a breeze.

The first secret is to wear your headphones. Put the K3 in split and you
will hear the main receiver in your left ear while the right ear now has
the sub receiver. Set up your filters to your liking.

Listen on the main receiver and transmit on the sub receiver. Park the
main receiver on the DX and lock the dial so you don't accidentally bump
it. Slowly tune the sub receiver up the dial from the DX until you start
to hear the other stations the DX is working. Determine if there is a
pattern by continuing to listen - is the DX working stations further up
the dial after each contact? Down the dial? Listening on the same
frequency call after call? Read the mail, get familiar with his style.

The second secret is timing. To work the DX through the pileup you have
to put your signal where the DX is listening at that moment. By figuring
out his operating style you have a distinct advantage over most of those
ops who are blindly calling. Because of the pileup the DX likely has his
receiver running narrow. Zero beat your transmit VFO with the guy he is
working and drop your call as soon as he is finished. If the DX is
moving up the dial after each contact, move your VFO slightly above that
guy and make your call. Try to anticipate where the DX will be listening
next.

While I have not tried for ST0R yet I have broken through many pileups
on my first or second call, using the KPA500, a vertical dipole on CW
and this technique.

73 de na6m

On 07/31/2011 07:38 AM, [hidden email] wrote:

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wb6rse1

Re: split pileup and listening

In reply to this post by Bill Steffey NY9H

I recall that it was in Bob's first edition of "The Complete DXer," that he noted that serious DXers only used separate transmitters and receivers. It was of course written at a time when transceivers were relatively new and wide splits for chasing DX required remote VFOs. Dual receive was still to come.

A few years ago I had an occasion to reminded him of his erstwhile pronouncement and was greeted with a knowing shrug and smile.

73 - Steve WB6RSE

On Jul 31, 2011, at 4:24 PM, Bill NY9H wrote:

one of our fellow K3 owners and an old neighbor, Bob W9KNI wrote a
book on working DX, In fact it is " THE BOOK' on working DX....

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Tony Estep

Re: split pileup and listening

In reply to this post by Bill Steffey NY9H

On Sun, Jul 31, 2011 at 6:24 PM, Bill NY9H <[hidden email]> wrote:

> ...Bob W9KNI wrote a book on working DX, In fact it is " THE BOOK' on
> working DX...thoroughly go thru all the variations of working split ...

==============

Bob's book even has a long discourse on how to zero-beat the other guy if he
is working simplex!

Ya know, none of this stuff is hard to learn/figure out. The K3 and P3 were
designed explicitly to make proper station operation easy and smooth. Hams
today have such sweet tools, and it requires such minimal effort to learn
how to use them.

Tony KT0NY

--
http://www.isb.edu/faculty/facultydir.aspx?ddlFaculty=352
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gdaught6

Re: split pileup and listening was Pileups and KPA500/ST0R

In reply to this post by N2TK

Tony and others have advised...

> I can
> tune around and more easily find the station the DX is working.

A sterling idea, but when the DX station is on the other side of the world, and
hundreds are calling, there's very little chance I can locate the station he/she is
working. I have a K3 with the second receiver, and a P3 as well. I've not been able
to connect yet, but timing my call appropriately and calling on the 'fringes' of the
audible and visible pileup seem to be the best bet for me.

73,

George T Daughters, K6GT
CU in the California QSO Party (CQP)
October 1-2, 2011

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KC6CNN

Re: split pileup and listening was Pileups and KPA500/ST0R

In reply to this post by AC7AC

CONTENTS DELETED

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KD8NNU

Re: split pileup and listening was Pileups and KPA500/ST0R

In reply to this post by gdaught6

Thanks everyone who responded. I now have a basic understanding of
split. I have spent time re-reading the manual, info below and pondered
all the responses. Some off the list.

I have spend time playing with the knobs on the K3 and think I now have
the basics under control.

To me this hobby is like drinking from a fire hose.

Thanks again for all the help, someday I hope I can answer questions
like the folks on this group.

Cheers
~73
Don
KD8NNU

On Sun, Jul 31, 2011 at 10:38 AM, Cady, Fred wrote:

> Hi Don (et. al.)
>
> I put a fair amount of explanation of split operation in "The Elecraft
> K3: Design, Configuration and Operation." You can see some of it by
> going to http://www.ke7x.com/home/guide-to-the-k3/chapter-3-1
> and scrolling down to section 3.2.10.
> Give it a try. It is very satisfying (at least to me) to figure out
> how
> and where the dx is working and then to be able to jump in and work
> it.
> I got the ST0 on 20m running barefoot with a dipole. (I do have the
> advantage of the second receiver and a P3, though).
> Good luck and 73,
>
> Fred Cady, KE7X
> fcady at ieee dot org www.ke7x.com
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [hidden email] [mailto:elecraft-
>> [hidden email]] On Behalf Of [hidden email]
>> Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2011 6:39 AM
>> To: bob finger
>> Cc: [hidden email]
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] split pileup and listening was Pileups and
>> KPA500/ST0R
>>
>> Bob,
>>
>> I have never understood this whole split operation setup much less
>> figuring out how to listen to someone working split and doing what
>> you
>> stated below.
>>
>> Would you please try and explain it to me. Others have tried but
> for
>> some reason i just dont get it, or it wont sink in.
>>
>> I was on the radio yesterday and saw many folks calling ST0R and
>> figured
>> that wont work so well.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> ~73
>> Don
>> KD8NNU
>>

Tony Estep

Re: split pileup and listening was Pileups and KPA500/ST0R

On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 7:11 PM, <[hidden email]> wrote:

> ...I now have a basic understanding of split. I have spent time re-reading
> the manual, info below and pondered...
>
> ===========
Good for you, Don. Getting a grip on split operation will help you
appreciate the genius of the design of modern ham rigs and the K3 in
particular, and it'll expand your operating knowledge and enjoyment. Plus,
of course, it will make it possible to really chase DX. This has its
downside, however -- you could become warped like some of the rest of us....

Good DX,
Tony KT0NY
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