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Real world use of 1.8 filter

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W2BLC

Real world use of 1.8 filter

I am in the process of kicking tires (pre-order time) and wonder if I
would be well advised to get the 2.8 8-pole filter and the 1.8
additional filter for SSB?

Most of my operating is SSB rag chew on 75 and 40 meters. I love
arm-chair copy and do use outboard Behringer products to that end on RX
only. The K3 is probably overkill for my use, but I think it would be
enjoyable.

Would I get my money's worth from the 1.8 filter? Or, would I find the
2.8 8-pole filter used in conjunction with the DSP to be adequate?

Thanks,

Bill W2BLC

--
Sent from my blackboard - written in chalk

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Ross Primrose N4RP

Re: Real world use of 1.8 filter

On 1/13/2012 9:06 PM, W2BLC wrote:
>
> Would I get my money's worth from the 1.8 filter? Or, would I find the
> 2.8 8-pole filter used in conjunction with the DSP to be adequate?
>

Unless you chasing weak SSB DX or doing SSB contesting, you'll be fine
w/o the 1.8k filter.... The only time you MIGHT find is useful for rag
chewing is if you're trying to rag chew during a contest weekend ;-)

73, Ross N4RP

--
FCC Section 97.313(a) “At all times, an amateur station must use the minimum transmitter power necessary to carry out the desired communications.”

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Guy, K2AV

Re: Real world use of 1.8 filter

I have the 2.7 and 1.8 SSB filters. For normal rag chewing I can't stand
listening through the 1.8. But during contests I can't hear much UNLESS
I'm using the 1.8. I am constantly tuning the SHIFT control to hear what I
need to. The up and down signals are just too loud to hear the weak stuff
calling me on my run frequency. The same occurs occasionally chasing DX,
but contests are the real need.

The IF DSP does not suffice for the contests because the very loud signals
up and down can pump the hardware AGC before the DSP processing.

73, Guy.

On Fri, Jan 13, 2012 at 9:18 PM, Ross Primrose N4RP <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 1/13/2012 9:06 PM, W2BLC wrote:
> >
> > Would I get my money's worth from the 1.8 filter? Or, would I find the
> > 2.8 8-pole filter used in conjunction with the DSP to be adequate?
> >
>
> Unless you chasing weak SSB DX or doing SSB contesting, you'll be fine
> w/o the 1.8k filter.... The only time you MIGHT find is useful for rag
> chewing is if you're trying to rag chew during a contest weekend ;-)
>
> 73, Ross N4RP
>
> --
> FCC Section 97.313(a) “At all times, an amateur station must use the
> minimum transmitter power necessary to carry out the desired
> communications.”
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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Johnny Siu

Re: Real world use of 1.8 filter

In reply to this post by W2BLC

The stock 2.7 kHz filter is good enough if u seldom do any contest

Sent from my iPhone 4

W2BLC <[hidden email]> 於 2012年1月14日上午10:06 寫道：

> I am in the process of kicking tires (pre-order time) and wonder if I
> would be well advised to get the 2.8 8-pole filter and the 1.8
> additional filter for SSB?
>
> Most of my operating is SSB rag chew on 75 and 40 meters. I love
> arm-chair copy and do use outboard Behringer products to that end on RX
> only. The K3 is probably overkill for my use, but I think it would be
> enjoyable.
>
> Would I get my money's worth from the 1.8 filter? Or, would I find the
> 2.8 8-pole filter used in conjunction with the DSP to be adequate?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bill W2BLC
>
>
> --
> Sent from my blackboard - written in chalk
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Johnny Siu

Real world use of 1.8 filter

In reply to this post by W2BLC

Hello Bill,

Please read page 5 and 7 of Adam's report in the web link below:

http://www.ab4oj.com/test/docs/npr_test.pdf

I concur Adam's findings from my usage of the tested rigs. You will notice on P.7 about the difference between stock 2.7Khz filter and the 2.8 Khz 8 pole filter.

Enjoy your reading.

TNX & 73,

Johnny VR2XMC

________________________________
從︰ W2BLC <[hidden email]>
收件人︰ [hidden email]
傳送日期︰ 2012年01月14日 (週六) 10:06 AM
主題︰ [Elecraft] Real world use of 1.8 filter

I am in the process of kicking tires (pre-order time) and wonder if I
would be well advised to get the 2.8 8-pole filter and the 1.8
additional filter for SSB?

Most of my operating is SSB rag chew on 75 and 40 meters. I love
arm-chair copy and do use outboard Behringer products to that end on RX
only. The K3 is probably overkill for my use, but I think it would be
enjoyable.

Would I get my money's worth from the 1.8 filter? Or, would I find the
2.8 8-pole filter used in conjunction with the DSP to be adequate?

Thanks,

Bill W2BLC

--
Sent from my blackboard - written in chalk

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Keith Heimbold

Re: Real world use of 1.8 filter

In reply to this post by Johnny Siu

I am a new owner of a slightly used K3, SN #1391 and I have the 2.8 khz and the 2.1 khz and I think that between the two of them for SSB, I have an awesome setup. I am curious about the difference between the 2.1 khz and the 1.8 khz but not enough to make the purchase decision at this point. I think it is probably not an educated recommendation to make but I will do so anyway. I really like the 2.1 khz filter and end up using it all the time and it does make a difference to me in more crowded band conditions. I have not owned it long enough to comment on how it performs in contests. Maybe then I will be wishing I had the 1.8 khz filter instead of the 2.1 khz filter.

Good luck with your investigation.

Keith
AG6AZ

> From: [hidden email]
> Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2012 10:48:36 +0800
> To: [hidden email]
> CC: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Real world use of 1.8 filter
>
> The stock 2.7 kHz filter is good enough if u seldom do any contest
>
> Sent from my iPhone 4
>
> W2BLC <[hidden email]> 於 2012年1月14日上午10:06 寫道：
>
> > I am in the process of kicking tires (pre-order time) and wonder if I
> > would be well advised to get the 2.8 8-pole filter and the 1.8
> > additional filter for SSB?
> >
> > Most of my operating is SSB rag chew on 75 and 40 meters. I love
> > arm-chair copy and do use outboard Behringer products to that end on RX
> > only. The K3 is probably overkill for my use, but I think it would be
> > enjoyable.
> >
> > Would I get my money's worth from the 1.8 filter? Or, would I find the
> > 2.8 8-pole filter used in conjunction with the DSP to be adequate?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Bill W2BLC
> >
> >
> > --
> > Sent from my blackboard - written in chalk
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Don Wilhelm-4

Re: Real world use of 1.8 filter

Keith,

Under what conditions do you use the 2.1 kHz filter and wish for the
1.8? I ask because the use of a narrow SSB filter makes tuning more
critical (and more care is required to get an intelligible signal).

So if you are doing search and pounce in a contest, the extra time to
tune with the 1.8 kHz filter may be enough to miss the contact entirely
- you would br better off putting up with the QRM and letting the brain
do the filtering.

But if you are carefully tuning a DX station during a pileup, then the
1.8 might be of some assistance if the pileup is not well behaved - in
that case you would have more time to do careful tuning.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 1/13/2012 10:48 PM, Keith Heimbold wrote:
> I am a new owner of a slightly used K3, SN #1391 and I have the 2.8 khz and the 2.1 khz and I think that between the two of them for SSB, I have an awesome setup. I am curious about the difference between the 2.1 khz and the 1.8 khz but not enough to make the purchase decision at this point. I think it is probably not an educated recommendation to make but I will do so anyway. I really like the 2.1 khz filter and end up using it all the time and it does make a difference to me in more crowded band conditions. I have not owned it long enough to comment on how it performs in contests. Maybe then I will be wishing I had the 1.8 khz filter instead of the 2.1 khz filter.
>
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Johnny Siu

Re: Real world use of 1.8 filter

Don is correct. I use stock 2.7k filter in contest and 1.8 k filter when there is a bad behaved station next to my wanted multiplier. 73 Johnny

Sent from my iPhone 4

Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> 於 2012年1月14日下午12:29 寫道：

> Keith,
>
> Under what conditions do you use the 2.1 kHz filter and wish for the
> 1.8? I ask because the use of a narrow SSB filter makes tuning more
> critical (and more care is required to get an intelligible signal).
>
> So if you are doing search and pounce in a contest, the extra time to
> tune with the 1.8 kHz filter may be enough to miss the contact entirely
> - you would br better off putting up with the QRM and letting the brain
> do the filtering.
>
> But if you are carefully tuning a DX station during a pileup, then the
> 1.8 might be of some assistance if the pileup is not well behaved - in
> that case you would have more time to do careful tuning.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 1/13/2012 10:48 PM, Keith Heimbold wrote:
>> I am a new owner of a slightly used K3, SN #1391 and I have the 2.8 khz and the 2.1 khz and I think that between the two of them for SSB, I have an awesome setup. I am curious about the difference between the 2.1 khz and the 1.8 khz but not enough to make the purchase decision at this point. I think it is probably not an educated recommendation to make but I will do so anyway. I really like the 2.1 khz filter and end up using it all the time and it does make a difference to me in more crowded band conditions. I have not owned it long enough to comment on how it performs in contests. Maybe then I will be wishing I had the 1.8 khz filter instead of the 2.1 khz filter.
>>

Keith Heimbold

Re: Real world use of 1.8 filter

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-4

Hi Don,

I alternate between the 2.8 khz and 2.1 Khz filter during normal SSB operations. I am extremely pleased with my new to me K3 and I really could not be happier with its current configuration. I have the dual receivers and filters for CW and AM and FM, yet I still have a couple slots left for filters in the second receiver.

Although I am very new to the hobby less than 13 months licensed, I have already purchased six different rigs (used FT920 (traded), FT950 (backup), FT857D (truck), FT920 (staged for vacation home), K3 SN 1391 (main rig), and soon to arrive in Feb 2012, the KX3 (biz travel rig)).

As I become more acquainted with the hobby during this short timeframe, I have been searching for more distinct and superlative performance. Compared to the other rigs listed above, the K3 blows them all away and by large margin. I must admit I was truly surprised the first week of operating and now I am completely spoiled. All of you are probably thinking that this newbie is a bit crazy and it's true, I get obsessive about improvement whether at work or play. Whether at work in my business or hitting the slopes on my snowboard or working DX, I am always trying to improve.

Summing up (and apologies for the tangential flow of this email), but I am not yet convinced that I yet need the 1.8 Khz filter. Maybe when the next major contest comes around, I will determine if I am truly satisfied with the filters I have configured in this current K3 rig. Glad I found Elecraft. The K3 has allowed me to slowdown a bit in my relentless pursuit for improvement.

Keith
AG6AZ

> Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2012 23:29:14 -0500
> From: [hidden email]
> To: [hidden email]
> CC: [hidden email]; [hidden email]; [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Real world use of 1.8 filter
>
> Keith,
>
> Under what conditions do you use the 2.1 kHz filter and wish for the
> 1.8? I ask because the use of a narrow SSB filter makes tuning more
> critical (and more care is required to get an intelligible signal).
>
> So if you are doing search and pounce in a contest, the extra time to
> tune with the 1.8 kHz filter may be enough to miss the contact entirely
> - you would br better off putting up with the QRM and letting the brain
> do the filtering.
>
> But if you are carefully tuning a DX station during a pileup, then the
> 1.8 might be of some assistance if the pileup is not well behaved - in
> that case you would have more time to do careful tuning.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 1/13/2012 10:48 PM, Keith Heimbold wrote:
> > I am a new owner of a slightly used K3, SN #1391 and I have the 2.8 khz and the 2.1 khz and I think that between the two of them for SSB, I have an awesome setup. I am curious about the difference between the 2.1 khz and the 1.8 khz but not enough to make the purchase decision at this point. I think it is probably not an educated recommendation to make but I will do so anyway. I really like the 2.1 khz filter and end up using it all the time and it does make a difference to me in more crowded band conditions. I have not owned it long enough to comment on how it performs in contests. Maybe then I will be wishing I had the 1.8 khz filter instead of the 2.1 khz filter.
> >

M0XDF

Re: Real world use of 1.8 filter

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-4

I concur with Don and others (although I don't find tuning with the 1.8 kHz too hard), it really does help me to hear a DX, especially on lower bands where I have a S7+ noise floor (urban environment).

I generally tune with the 2.8 kHz and then drop in the 1.8KHz in using the II filter setting. When setting the width to use the 1.8 kHz, it's best to use High/Low, rather than Width and reduce the high and increase the low until you drop down to the 1.8 kHz filter, this gives better audio and readability than just changing the width around the centre frequency - the final setting tending to be offset.

BTW, if you are getting the 2nd receiver, getting the 2.8 kHz filter means you don't need to match a pair of 2.7 kHz filters, just get another 2.8 kHz for the KRX3.

73 de David, M0XDF (K3 #174, P3 #108)
--
Whales have calves, Cats have kittens, Bears have cubs,
Bats have bittens, Swans have cygnets, Seals have puppies,
But guppies just have little guppies. - Ogden Nash (1902-1971)

On 14 Jan 2012, at 04:29, Don Wilhelm wrote:

alsopb

Re: Real world use of 1.8 filter

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-4

On the other hand, the 1.8 KHz filter is my primary filter for SSB
receive. I'm mostly a CW operator and when I get on SSB it is only for
working DX or a contest. Fidelity is not an need. Once the high
cut/lot cuts are set up for the 1.8, one can easily widen the the filter
width with width control alone to allow better copy for XYL or broad
signals stations.

73 de Brian/K3KO

On 1/14/2012 04:29, Don Wilhelm wrote:

-----
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Bill W4ZV

Re: Real world use of 1.8 filter

In reply to this post by W2BLC

W2BLC wrote

Most of my operating is SSB rag chew on 75 and 40 meters. I love
arm-chair copy and do use outboard Behringer products to that end on RX
only. The K3 is probably overkill for my use, but I think it would be
enjoyable.

Would I get my money's worth from the 1.8 filter? Or, would I find the
2.8 8-pole filter used in conjunction with the DSP to be adequate?

Based on what you wrote above, you should be fine with the stock 5-pole 2.7k and IMHO don't even need the 2.8k (i.e. save your $140).

1. Ragchewing: 2.7k is fine
2. DXing or contest S&Ping: 1.8k (when you DO have time for precise tuning)
3. Contest running at high rates (>150 Qs/hr): 2.1k (when you DON'T have time)

I recently swapped my 1.8k for a 2.1k because of #3 above:

http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-Trade-my-1-8k-for-your-2-1k-filter-tt7158423.html#a7161493

73, Bill W4ZV

Barry

Re: Real world use of 1.8 filter

Another vote for the stock filter (from a CW guy who doesn't operate much SSB).
Barry W2UP

W2BLC

Re: Real world use of 1.8 filter

In reply to this post by W2BLC

Thanks very much for those great replies. Sure appreciate the help in
filter selections.

Bill W2BLC

--
Sent from my blackboard - written in chalk

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Jeff Cochrane - VK4XA

Re: Real world use of 1.8 filter

In reply to this post by W2BLC

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