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Reason to NOT buy a K3?

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Gary K9GS

Reason to NOT buy a K3?

Hello all and Happy Holidays!

I've been reading the K3 reflector for the past couple of weeks. I'm in
the market for a new radio and have my choices narrowed down to a couple
models to replace my TS-850S which has served me very well.

First my operating interests:

I primarily spend my time contesting, DX contests in particular, and
most of my time on 80 and 40M. 99% of the time I operate CW. So, in
particular, low band CW performance is important to me. In between
contests I spend my time DXing, again primarily on the low bands. Some
occasional VHF operating on 6 and 2M.

I'd also like to point out that I do interface my radios to a dedicated
computer using Win XP pro and use N1MM for contesting and Logger 32 for
general operating. Both of these applications are very well supported
and the K3 is well represented among users.

I've narrowed my choices down to two radios, the FTDX5000 and the K3.
There are several things keeping me from falling in love with the FTDX5000:

1) The CW break-in performance is broken in the FTDX5K above ~30 wpm,
resulting in chopped characters, and from what I'm told, really bad
sounding on the air.
2) The APF filter is also not working correctly.
3) The contour control does not function on CW, I believe only on SSB.

Of course, these limitations COULD be fixed by Yaesu in future revisions
but I'm apprehensive that Yaesu is going to fix anything. They
certainly don't participate in the FTDX5000 user forums although
supposedly they do read the posts. Sort of the "we know what we're
doing, there's no problem" attitude with JA radio manufacturers. After
all, how many FT-1000XX radios were built with the key click problem? I
don't think Yaesu ever admitted there was an issue and the fix was
relatively simple to implement in production.

At $5K plus one would hope these problems are addressed but one never
knows. Certainly Elecraft is much more responsive and is actively
involved in post sale issues and solutions.

I've never been a fan of ICOM HF radios although the IC-7800 gets good
reviews but at $10K per radio??? I've also used Ten-Tec before and
never been a big fan plus the Orion II suffers from a poor performing
2nd receiver and I know of several locals that have had there Orions
back for service/updates several times. So what else is there and am I
missing anything else?

Which brings me to the K3. This radio seems, to me, to be exactly what
I'm looking for. I really can't think of anything holding me back.

I'm looking at the 100W model with the following accessories:

a) KAT3
b) KXV3A
c) 2.8K 8 pole SSB filter
d) 400 hz 8 pole filter
e) 250 hz 8 pole filter

Future options would be the KRX sub receiver, K144XV-K 2M Module (I do
some VHF operating but presently have a rig for 2M SSB anyway), I'm
not currently using any receive antennas on 80/40M. I'd like an opinion
on this but I don't think I see the advantage to buying the sub receiver
UNTIL I have receive antennas available for diversity reception? What
am I missing here?

I don't operate any of the digital modes but I would like to do so. Is
the 2.8K filter adequate for digital modes or do I want something different?

I also like the portability of the K3 as I am planning on some future
DX-pedition use. I can't see lugging a 43 pound FTDX5000 through
airport security either.

Sorry for the long post but I wanted to have a sanity check with some
experienced K3 users that know the K3 and have similar interests and
requirements. I'm on vacation this week and one thing I do plan on
doing is dropping by a local in or DX club and using his K3 for a couple
of hours.

Your thoughts and comments are appreciated.

--

73,

Gary K9GS

Check out K9NS on the web: http://www.k9ns.com
Greater Milwaukee DX Association: http://www.gmdxa.org
Society of Midwest Contesters: http://www.w9smc.com

************************************************
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Phillip Lontz

Re: Reason to NOT buy a K3?

Gary... Seems to me your already own a K3!!!

Phil
Santa Fe

Sent from my iPad

On Dec 26, 2010, at 12:10 PM, Gary K9GS <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hello all and Happy Holidays!
>
> I've been reading the K3 reflector for the past couple of weeks. I'm in
> the market for a new radio and have my choices narrowed down to a couple
> models to replace my TS-850S which has served me very well.
>
> First my operating interests:
>
> I primarily spend my time contesting, DX contests in particular, and
> most of my time on 80 and 40M. 99% of the time I operate CW. So, in
> particular, low band CW performance is important to me. In between
> contests I spend my time DXing, again primarily on the low bands. Some
> occasional VHF operating on 6 and 2M.
>
> I'd also like to point out that I do interface my radios to a dedicated
> computer using Win XP pro and use N1MM for contesting and Logger 32 for
> general operating. Both of these applications are very well supported
> and the K3 is well represented among users.
>
> I've narrowed my choices down to two radios, the FTDX5000 and the K3.
> There are several things keeping me from falling in love with the FTDX5000:
>
> 1) The CW break-in performance is broken in the FTDX5K above ~30 wpm,
> resulting in chopped characters, and from what I'm told, really bad
> sounding on the air.
> 2) The APF filter is also not working correctly.
> 3) The contour control does not function on CW, I believe only on SSB.
>
> Of course, these limitations COULD be fixed by Yaesu in future revisions
> but I'm apprehensive that Yaesu is going to fix anything. They
> certainly don't participate in the FTDX5000 user forums although
> supposedly they do read the posts. Sort of the "we know what we're
> doing, there's no problem" attitude with JA radio manufacturers. After
> all, how many FT-1000XX radios were built with the key click problem? I
> don't think Yaesu ever admitted there was an issue and the fix was
> relatively simple to implement in production.
>
> At $5K plus one would hope these problems are addressed but one never
> knows. Certainly Elecraft is much more responsive and is actively
> involved in post sale issues and solutions.
>
> I've never been a fan of ICOM HF radios although the IC-7800 gets good
> reviews but at $10K per radio??? I've also used Ten-Tec before and
> never been a big fan plus the Orion II suffers from a poor performing
> 2nd receiver and I know of several locals that have had there Orions
> back for service/updates several times. So what else is there and am I
> missing anything else?
>
> Which brings me to the K3. This radio seems, to me, to be exactly what
> I'm looking for. I really can't think of anything holding me back.
>
> I'm looking at the 100W model with the following accessories:
>
> a) KAT3
> b) KXV3A
> c) 2.8K 8 pole SSB filter
> d) 400 hz 8 pole filter
> e) 250 hz 8 pole filter
>
> Future options would be the KRX sub receiver, K144XV-K 2M Module (I do
> some VHF operating but presently have a rig for 2M SSB anyway), I'm
> not currently using any receive antennas on 80/40M. I'd like an opinion
> on this but I don't think I see the advantage to buying the sub receiver
> UNTIL I have receive antennas available for diversity reception? What
> am I missing here?
>
> I don't operate any of the digital modes but I would like to do so. Is
> the 2.8K filter adequate for digital modes or do I want something different?
>
> I also like the portability of the K3 as I am planning on some future
> DX-pedition use. I can't see lugging a 43 pound FTDX5000 through
> airport security either.
>
> Sorry for the long post but I wanted to have a sanity check with some
> experienced K3 users that know the K3 and have similar interests and
> requirements. I'm on vacation this week and one thing I do plan on
> doing is dropping by a local in or DX club and using his K3 for a couple
> of hours.
>
> Your thoughts and comments are appreciated.
>
> --
>
>
> 73,
>
> Gary K9GS
>
> Check out K9NS on the web: http://www.k9ns.com
> Greater Milwaukee DX Association: http://www.gmdxa.org
> Society of Midwest Contesters: http://www.w9smc.com
>
> ************************************************
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Phillip Lontz

Re: Reason to NOT buy a K3?

You will be like... Gadzookes sure am glad I didn't buy that kencomyeatek.

Sent from my iPad

On Dec 26, 2010, at 12:35 PM, Gary K9GS <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Yep...kind of like selling myself a new car :))
>
> Thanks Phil.
>
> On 12/26/2010 1:27 PM, Phil Townsend wrote:
>> Gary... Seems to me your already own a K3!!!
>>
>> Phil
>> Santa Fe
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> On Dec 26, 2010, at 12:10 PM, Gary K9GS<[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello all and Happy Holidays!
>>>
>>> I've been reading the K3 reflector for the past couple of weeks. I'm in
>>> the market for a new radio and have my choices narrowed down to a couple
>>> models to replace my TS-850S which has served me very well.
>>>
>>> First my operating interests:
>>>
>>> I primarily spend my time contesting, DX contests in particular, and
>>> most of my time on 80 and 40M. 99% of the time I operate CW. So, in
>>> particular, low band CW performance is important to me. In between
>>> contests I spend my time DXing, again primarily on the low bands. Some
>>> occasional VHF operating on 6 and 2M.
>>>
>>> I'd also like to point out that I do interface my radios to a dedicated
>>> computer using Win XP pro and use N1MM for contesting and Logger 32 for
>>> general operating. Both of these applications are very well supported
>>> and the K3 is well represented among users.
>>>
>>> I've narrowed my choices down to two radios, the FTDX5000 and the K3.
>>> There are several things keeping me from falling in love with the FTDX5000:
>>>
>>> 1) The CW break-in performance is broken in the FTDX5K above ~30 wpm,
>>> resulting in chopped characters, and from what I'm told, really bad
>>> sounding on the air.
>>> 2) The APF filter is also not working correctly.
>>> 3) The contour control does not function on CW, I believe only on SSB.
>>>
>>> Of course, these limitations COULD be fixed by Yaesu in future revisions
>>> but I'm apprehensive that Yaesu is going to fix anything. They
>>> certainly don't participate in the FTDX5000 user forums although
>>> supposedly they do read the posts. Sort of the "we know what we're
>>> doing, there's no problem" attitude with JA radio manufacturers. After
>>> all, how many FT-1000XX radios were built with the key click problem? I
>>> don't think Yaesu ever admitted there was an issue and the fix was
>>> relatively simple to implement in production.
>>>
>>> At $5K plus one would hope these problems are addressed but one never
>>> knows. Certainly Elecraft is much more responsive and is actively
>>> involved in post sale issues and solutions.
>>>
>>> I've never been a fan of ICOM HF radios although the IC-7800 gets good
>>> reviews but at $10K per radio??? I've also used Ten-Tec before and
>>> never been a big fan plus the Orion II suffers from a poor performing
>>> 2nd receiver and I know of several locals that have had there Orions
>>> back for service/updates several times. So what else is there and am I
>>> missing anything else?
>>>
>>> Which brings me to the K3. This radio seems, to me, to be exactly what
>>> I'm looking for. I really can't think of anything holding me back.
>>>
>>> I'm looking at the 100W model with the following accessories:
>>>
>>> a) KAT3
>>> b) KXV3A
>>> c) 2.8K 8 pole SSB filter
>>> d) 400 hz 8 pole filter
>>> e) 250 hz 8 pole filter
>>>
>>> Future options would be the KRX sub receiver, K144XV-K 2M Module (I do
>>> some VHF operating but presently have a rig for 2M SSB anyway), I'm
>>> not currently using any receive antennas on 80/40M. I'd like an opinion
>>> on this but I don't think I see the advantage to buying the sub receiver
>>> UNTIL I have receive antennas available for diversity reception? What
>>> am I missing here?
>>>
>>> I don't operate any of the digital modes but I would like to do so. Is
>>> the 2.8K filter adequate for digital modes or do I want something different?
>>>
>>> I also like the portability of the K3 as I am planning on some future
>>> DX-pedition use. I can't see lugging a 43 pound FTDX5000 through
>>> airport security either.
>>>
>>> Sorry for the long post but I wanted to have a sanity check with some
>>> experienced K3 users that know the K3 and have similar interests and
>>> requirements. I'm on vacation this week and one thing I do plan on
>>> doing is dropping by a local in or DX club and using his K3 for a couple
>>> of hours.
>>>
>>> Your thoughts and comments are appreciated.
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>>
>>> 73,
>>>
>>> Gary K9GS
>>>
>>> Check out K9NS on the web: http://www.k9ns.com
>>> Greater Milwaukee DX Association: http://www.gmdxa.org
>>> Society of Midwest Contesters: http://www.w9smc.com
>>>
>>> ************************************************
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
> --
>
>
> 73,
>
> Gary K9GS
>
> Check out K9NS on the web: http://www.k9ns.com
> Greater Milwaukee DX Association: http://www.gmdxa.org
> Society of Midwest Contesters: http://www.w9smc.com
>
> ************************************************
>

Dick Dievendorff

Re: Reason to NOT buy a K3?

In reply to this post by Gary K9GS

Merry Christmas, Gary!

Full disclosure: I'm an Elecraft employee. Before my K3 I was a happy Icom IC-7800 owner.

I'd recommend you consider the 5 pole 200 Hz filter rather than the 250 Hz 8-pole filter if your main interest is CW contesting and DX. There are plots of the 8-pole filters on Elecraft's web site at http://www.elecraft.com/K3/K3_8_pole_plots.htm

My K3, ordered in first day at Visalia (before I was an employee), had five 8-pole filters, 2.8, 1.8, 1.0, 400, and 250. I have since changed the 250 to a five pole 200 Hz. I don't use it very much. In contests I usually run with 800-1.2 of bandwidth if I can stand it to pick up off-freq callers.
The 250 Hz filter may be just right for digital modes, tho. I'd defer to W0YK's judgement there. He has contributed several posts to this topic and these postings are archived and can be found with a search engine like Google.

The K3 is mentioned frequently and positively in the new issue of ON4UN's Low Band DXing.

All the radios you are considering have some good points, and the differences in equipment will be less than differences in antennas and operator skill. The best contesters could use really old gear and still do very well...

What I think sets Elecraft apart, other than great engineering and customer service, is the "Hands On Ham Radio" engagement of our customers, engineers, and company owners. You csn meet the owners at many amateur conventions. Our CEO moderates the Elecraft forum, reads every post, and they are often forwarded to the right person for action. The equipment often gains new capability, usually through free firmware updates and the occasional hardware modification offered at reasonable prices.
One asset we treasure and cultivate is the community of our users. They are our best source of product ideas, criticism, and are our best salesmen.

73 de Dick, K6KR

On Dec 26, 2010, at 11:10, Gary K9GS <[hidden email]> wrote:

k.igor

Re: Reason to NOT buy a K3?

In reply to this post by Gary K9GS

Gary,
Looks like you already made your mind.
If you can afford it, for the activities you describe I would suggest second
receiver regardless if you have receive antennas or not. During contests I
find myself calling CQ on one frequency and listening on both the CQ
frequency and frequency of the second receiver on the same band with the
same antenna (left ear main, right ear sub). If I find station on second
receiver that I want to work, literally by pressing one button I am in
position of calling the other station, then another button returns me back
to my CQ frequency. When run rate is low, this helps to fill the void. I
probably don't need to mention how second receiver helps in rear DX pileup -
such a big help! Of course, second receiver and couple CW filters for it
will set you back for about $1k - something to think about:-).
73,
Igor, N1YX

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Gary K9GS
Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2010 2:10 PM
To: 'Elecraft'
Subject: [Elecraft] Reason to NOT buy a K3?

Hello all and Happy Holidays!

I've been reading the K3 reflector for the past couple of weeks. I'm in
the market for a new radio and have my choices narrowed down to a couple
models to replace my TS-850S which has served me very well.

First my operating interests:

I primarily spend my time contesting, DX contests in particular, and
most of my time on 80 and 40M. 99% of the time I operate CW. So, in
particular, low band CW performance is important to me. In between
contests I spend my time DXing, again primarily on the low bands. Some
occasional VHF operating on 6 and 2M.

I'd also like to point out that I do interface my radios to a dedicated
computer using Win XP pro and use N1MM for contesting and Logger 32 for
general operating. Both of these applications are very well supported
and the K3 is well represented among users.

I've narrowed my choices down to two radios, the FTDX5000 and the K3.
There are several things keeping me from falling in love with the FTDX5000:

1) The CW break-in performance is broken in the FTDX5K above ~30 wpm,
resulting in chopped characters, and from what I'm told, really bad
sounding on the air.
2) The APF filter is also not working correctly.
3) The contour control does not function on CW, I believe only on SSB.

Of course, these limitations COULD be fixed by Yaesu in future revisions
but I'm apprehensive that Yaesu is going to fix anything. They
certainly don't participate in the FTDX5000 user forums although
supposedly they do read the posts. Sort of the "we know what we're
doing, there's no problem" attitude with JA radio manufacturers. After
all, how many FT-1000XX radios were built with the key click problem? I
don't think Yaesu ever admitted there was an issue and the fix was
relatively simple to implement in production.

At $5K plus one would hope these problems are addressed but one never
knows. Certainly Elecraft is much more responsive and is actively
involved in post sale issues and solutions.

I've never been a fan of ICOM HF radios although the IC-7800 gets good
reviews but at $10K per radio??? I've also used Ten-Tec before and
never been a big fan plus the Orion II suffers from a poor performing
2nd receiver and I know of several locals that have had there Orions
back for service/updates several times. So what else is there and am I
missing anything else?

Which brings me to the K3. This radio seems, to me, to be exactly what
I'm looking for. I really can't think of anything holding me back.

I'm looking at the 100W model with the following accessories:

a) KAT3
b) KXV3A
c) 2.8K 8 pole SSB filter
d) 400 hz 8 pole filter
e) 250 hz 8 pole filter

Future options would be the KRX sub receiver, K144XV-K 2M Module (I do
some VHF operating but presently have a rig for 2M SSB anyway), I'm
not currently using any receive antennas on 80/40M. I'd like an opinion
on this but I don't think I see the advantage to buying the sub receiver
UNTIL I have receive antennas available for diversity reception? What
am I missing here?

I don't operate any of the digital modes but I would like to do so. Is
the 2.8K filter adequate for digital modes or do I want something different?

I also like the portability of the K3 as I am planning on some future
DX-pedition use. I can't see lugging a 43 pound FTDX5000 through
airport security either.

Sorry for the long post but I wanted to have a sanity check with some
experienced K3 users that know the K3 and have similar interests and
requirements. I'm on vacation this week and one thing I do plan on
doing is dropping by a local in or DX club and using his K3 for a couple
of hours.

Your thoughts and comments are appreciated.

--

73,

Gary K9GS

Check out K9NS on the web: http://www.k9ns.com
Greater Milwaukee DX Association: http://www.gmdxa.org
Society of Midwest Contesters: http://www.w9smc.com

************************************************
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Dick Dievendorff

Re: Reason to NOT buy a K3?

In reply to this post by Gary K9GS

One other observation: I find my 2nd receiver quite useful in DX split freq pileups even without diversity. Having used it, I don't want to be without it. Split in contests is infrequent, tho. The P3 is also quite helpful to pick out successful callers in pileups and to find holes in the pileup. The waterfall display makes it really useful.
I had my first taste of true 2nd RX in my IC-7800 and didn't sell it until I had my KRX3 installed.
Some radios have Dual Watch which allows you to listen to two freqs together, but this technique combines the signal at the IF, so you listen to a mono mix. Some radios scrimp a bit on 2nd receiver performance. The K3's 2nd receiver is as good as the main. It also needs its own set of filters, although you might be a bit stingier here.

73 de Dick, K6KR

On Dec 26, 2010, at 11:10, Gary K9GS <[hidden email]> wrote:

Don Wilhelm-4

Re: Reason to NOT buy a K3?

In reply to this post by Gary K9GS

Gary,

Since DXing on 80 meters often is similar to DXing on 160 meters, the
"testimonial" from W8JI right after he received his K3 may give you some
insight - Tom said something similar to: he wished that he would be the
only operator with a K3! Yes that was a "backwards" compliment to the
K3, but if you are familiar with Tom's posts on the Topband reflector
and others, you will know that he is very critical about any radio - not
so with the K3.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 12/26/2010 2:10 PM, Gary K9GS wrote:

Chuck Guenther

Reason to NOT buy a K3?

In reply to this post by Gary K9GS

Gary,
You may wish to substitute a 500 Hz or 200 Hz five-pole filter for either
the 400 Hz or 250 Hz filters. The reason is, the nominal 400 Hz and
250 Hz filters are actually pretty close in terms of performance.

I own all of the aforementioned filters, and have gone back and forth
a few times, but have settled on the 500, 250, and 200 Hz combo for CW,
while I have the 2.7 KHz and 2.1 Khz installed for SSB.

I operate lowbands and CW almost exclusively now. Probably 90 pct.
of the time I use the 250 Hz 8-pole filter.

BTW, I think you will be delighted by the QSK performance, as well as the
APF feature of the K3.

73,
Chuck Guenther NI0C
K2, K3/P3

Gary, K9GS, wrote:

> "I primarily spend my time contesting, DX contests in particular, and
> most of my time on 80 and 40M. 99% of the time I operate CW. So, in
> particular, low band CW performance is important to me. .......
>
>
> I'm looking at the 100W model with the following accessories:
>
> a) KAT3
> b) KXV3A
> c) 2.8K 8 pole SSB filter
> d) 400 hz 8 pole filter
> e) 250 hz 8 pole filter"
>

DAVID M. Elliott

Re: Reason to NOT buy a K3?

In reply to this post by Gary K9GS

Gary,

Seem like most of the important points have been covered except perhaps one: the P3. The use of the P3 with the second receiver in split operation (contest or DX) is simply awesome! You might want to play with one before you decide. For example, with the second receiver and the P3, you can see the passbands of both receivers (different colors). This makes it simple and fun to "see" where the other stations are in a pileup and also see the "holes" in real time. Kind of like shooting fish in a barrel. As far as I know, Yaesu has nothing like the P3 but you have to actually see and use one to be fully convinced.

I suspect we will welcome you to the K3 users "club" very soon.

73 de W6BK

On Dec 26, 2010, at 11:10 AM, Gary K9GS wrote:

Dave Perry N4QS

Re: Reason to NOT buy a K3?

In reply to this post by Gary K9GS

Gary,

I bought my K3 SN# 3132 in June of 2009 to replace my beloved TS-850s that I
had owned and used extensively for 19 years. I have the same interests in
DXing, contesting and low-band DXing as you, and can say without reservation
that my new K3 is an absolute dream. I have the exact lineup of filters
that you are thinking about getting. I would also recommend the subRX and
the KXV3A for adding the P3 panadaptor. The K3 with the subRX and
panadaptor is an unbeatable combination in contests and also big pileups.
The new APF function is a recent firmware addition that greatly improves rx
capability of weak signals. I use my K3 with N1MM and DX4WIN logging
programs and it all works flawlessly. The K3 works great on all digital
modes right out of the box.

I know that the FT5000 appears to be a very good rig. But it is too big and
heavy for portable use and the K3 support and constant upgrading via new
hardware and firmware upgrades cannot be beat. Another big plus for a
long-time Kenwood user like me is that the K3 has its roots in the Kenwood
design and ergonomics. I found it to be a very easy and natural transition
going from the 850 to the K3. A fully loaded K3 and P3 is similar in cost
to the FT5000, but I believe that you get much more flexibility and
long-term growth in the K3. It seems like every month Elecraft is adding a
new feature via firmware updates. The rig just keeps getting better.

HNY,

Dave, N4QS

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary K9GS" <[hidden email]>
To: "'Elecraft'" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2010 1:10 PM
Subject: [Elecraft] Reason to NOT buy a K3?

> Hello all and Happy Holidays!
>
> I've been reading the K3 reflector for the past couple of weeks. I'm in
> the market for a new radio and have my choices narrowed down to a couple
> models to replace my TS-850S which has served me very well.
>
> First my operating interests:
>
> I primarily spend my time contesting, DX contests in particular, and
> most of my time on 80 and 40M. 99% of the time I operate CW. So, in
> particular, low band CW performance is important to me. In between
> contests I spend my time DXing, again primarily on the low bands. Some
> occasional VHF operating on 6 and 2M.
>
> I'd also like to point out that I do interface my radios to a dedicated
> computer using Win XP pro and use N1MM for contesting and Logger 32 for
> general operating. Both of these applications are very well supported
> and the K3 is well represented among users.
>
> I've narrowed my choices down to two radios, the FTDX5000 and the K3.
> There are several things keeping me from falling in love with the
> FTDX5000:
>
> 1) The CW break-in performance is broken in the FTDX5K above ~30 wpm,
> resulting in chopped characters, and from what I'm told, really bad
> sounding on the air.
> 2) The APF filter is also not working correctly.
> 3) The contour control does not function on CW, I believe only on SSB.
>
> Of course, these limitations COULD be fixed by Yaesu in future revisions
> but I'm apprehensive that Yaesu is going to fix anything. They
> certainly don't participate in the FTDX5000 user forums although
> supposedly they do read the posts. Sort of the "we know what we're
> doing, there's no problem" attitude with JA radio manufacturers. After
> all, how many FT-1000XX radios were built with the key click problem? I
> don't think Yaesu ever admitted there was an issue and the fix was
> relatively simple to implement in production.
>
> At $5K plus one would hope these problems are addressed but one never
> knows. Certainly Elecraft is much more responsive and is actively
> involved in post sale issues and solutions.
>
> I've never been a fan of ICOM HF radios although the IC-7800 gets good
> reviews but at $10K per radio??? I've also used Ten-Tec before and
> never been a big fan plus the Orion II suffers from a poor performing
> 2nd receiver and I know of several locals that have had there Orions
> back for service/updates several times. So what else is there and am I
> missing anything else?
>
> Which brings me to the K3. This radio seems, to me, to be exactly what
> I'm looking for. I really can't think of anything holding me back.
>
> I'm looking at the 100W model with the following accessories:
>
> a) KAT3
> b) KXV3A
> c) 2.8K 8 pole SSB filter
> d) 400 hz 8 pole filter
> e) 250 hz 8 pole filter
>
> Future options would be the KRX sub receiver, K144XV-K 2M Module (I do
> some VHF operating but presently have a rig for 2M SSB anyway), I'm
> not currently using any receive antennas on 80/40M. I'd like an opinion
> on this but I don't think I see the advantage to buying the sub receiver
> UNTIL I have receive antennas available for diversity reception? What
> am I missing here?
>
> I don't operate any of the digital modes but I would like to do so. Is
> the 2.8K filter adequate for digital modes or do I want something
> different?
>
> I also like the portability of the K3 as I am planning on some future
> DX-pedition use. I can't see lugging a 43 pound FTDX5000 through
> airport security either.
>
> Sorry for the long post but I wanted to have a sanity check with some
> experienced K3 users that know the K3 and have similar interests and
> requirements. I'm on vacation this week and one thing I do plan on
> doing is dropping by a local in or DX club and using his K3 for a couple
> of hours.
>
> Your thoughts and comments are appreciated.
>
> --
>
>
> 73,
>
> Gary K9GS
>
> Check out K9NS on the web: http://www.k9ns.com
> Greater Milwaukee DX Association: http://www.gmdxa.org
> Society of Midwest Contesters: http://www.w9smc.com
>
> ************************************************
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

Dave Perry N4QS

Re: Reason to NOT buy a K3?

In reply to this post by Gary K9GS

Gary,

Regarding your question about digital modes and filters, the 2.8 kHz filter
is fine for psk31 (which I operate only occasionally). I do operate a lot
of RTTY contests, and I use the 400 Hz filter and then use the DSP filtering
to decrease the bandwidth to 300 Hz. BTW, the K3 is far superior to the 850
in RTTY reception due to this ability to use the narrow filters. The P3
makes it even easier tuning in RTTY sigs during busy band conditions. As
someone else mentioned, you really have to see the P3 in operation to fully
appreciate its utility. It's a game changer as far as I am concerned!

73,

Dave, N4QS

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary K9GS" <[hidden email]>
To: "'Elecraft'" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2010 1:10 PM
Subject: [Elecraft] Reason to NOT buy a K3?

> Hello all and Happy Holidays!
>
> I've been reading the K3 reflector for the past couple of weeks. I'm in
> the market for a new radio and have my choices narrowed down to a couple
> models to replace my TS-850S which has served me very well.
>
> First my operating interests:
>
> I primarily spend my time contesting, DX contests in particular, and
> most of my time on 80 and 40M. 99% of the time I operate CW. So, in
> particular, low band CW performance is important to me. In between
> contests I spend my time DXing, again primarily on the low bands. Some
> occasional VHF operating on 6 and 2M.
>
> I'd also like to point out that I do interface my radios to a dedicated
> computer using Win XP pro and use N1MM for contesting and Logger 32 for
> general operating. Both of these applications are very well supported
> and the K3 is well represented among users.
>
> I've narrowed my choices down to two radios, the FTDX5000 and the K3.
> There are several things keeping me from falling in love with the
> FTDX5000:
>
> 1) The CW break-in performance is broken in the FTDX5K above ~30 wpm,
> resulting in chopped characters, and from what I'm told, really bad
> sounding on the air.
> 2) The APF filter is also not working correctly.
> 3) The contour control does not function on CW, I believe only on SSB.
>
> Of course, these limitations COULD be fixed by Yaesu in future revisions
> but I'm apprehensive that Yaesu is going to fix anything. They
> certainly don't participate in the FTDX5000 user forums although
> supposedly they do read the posts. Sort of the "we know what we're
> doing, there's no problem" attitude with JA radio manufacturers. After
> all, how many FT-1000XX radios were built with the key click problem? I
> don't think Yaesu ever admitted there was an issue and the fix was
> relatively simple to implement in production.
>
> At $5K plus one would hope these problems are addressed but one never
> knows. Certainly Elecraft is much more responsive and is actively
> involved in post sale issues and solutions.
>
> I've never been a fan of ICOM HF radios although the IC-7800 gets good
> reviews but at $10K per radio??? I've also used Ten-Tec before and
> never been a big fan plus the Orion II suffers from a poor performing
> 2nd receiver and I know of several locals that have had there Orions
> back for service/updates several times. So what else is there and am I
> missing anything else?
>
> Which brings me to the K3. This radio seems, to me, to be exactly what
> I'm looking for. I really can't think of anything holding me back.
>
> I'm looking at the 100W model with the following accessories:
>
> a) KAT3
> b) KXV3A
> c) 2.8K 8 pole SSB filter
> d) 400 hz 8 pole filter
> e) 250 hz 8 pole filter
>
> Future options would be the KRX sub receiver, K144XV-K 2M Module (I do
> some VHF operating but presently have a rig for 2M SSB anyway), I'm
> not currently using any receive antennas on 80/40M. I'd like an opinion
> on this but I don't think I see the advantage to buying the sub receiver
> UNTIL I have receive antennas available for diversity reception? What
> am I missing here?
>
> I don't operate any of the digital modes but I would like to do so. Is
> the 2.8K filter adequate for digital modes or do I want something
> different?
>
> I also like the portability of the K3 as I am planning on some future
> DX-pedition use. I can't see lugging a 43 pound FTDX5000 through
> airport security either.
>
> Sorry for the long post but I wanted to have a sanity check with some
> experienced K3 users that know the K3 and have similar interests and
> requirements. I'm on vacation this week and one thing I do plan on
> doing is dropping by a local in or DX club and using his K3 for a couple
> of hours.
>
> Your thoughts and comments are appreciated.
>
> --
>
>
> 73,
>
> Gary K9GS
>
> Check out K9NS on the web: http://www.k9ns.com
> Greater Milwaukee DX Association: http://www.gmdxa.org
> Society of Midwest Contesters: http://www.w9smc.com
>
> ************************************************
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

Able2fly

Is P3/K2 marriage feasable?

Wondering what it would take to fully integrate a P3 with a K2?

Perhaps its been done ??

Bill K3UJ

-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Perry <[hidden email]>
To: garyk9gs <[hidden email]>
Cc: 'Elecraft Reflector' <[hidden email]>
Sent: Sun, Dec 26, 2010 3:54 pm
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Reason to NOT buy a K3?

Gary,
Regarding your question about digital modes and filters, the 2.8 kHz filter
s fine for psk31 (which I operate only occasionally). I do operate a lot
f RTTY contests, and I use the 400 Hz filter and then use the DSP filtering
o decrease the bandwidth to 300 Hz. BTW, the K3 is far superior to the 850
n RTTY reception due to this ability to use the narrow filters. The P3
akes it even easier tuning in RTTY sigs during busy band conditions. As
omeone else mentioned, you really have to see the P3 in operation to fully
ppreciate its utility. It's a game changer as far as I am concerned!
73,
Dave, N4QS
----- Original Message -----
rom: "Gary K9GS" <[hidden email]>
o: "'Elecraft'" <[hidden email]>
ent: Sunday, December 26, 2010 1:10 PM
ubject: [Elecraft] Reason to NOT buy a K3?

Hello all and Happy Holidays!

I've been reading the K3 reflector for the past couple of weeks. I'm in
the market for a new radio and have my choices narrowed down to a couple
models to replace my TS-850S which has served me very well.

First my operating interests:

I primarily spend my time contesting, DX contests in particular, and
most of my time on 80 and 40M. 99% of the time I operate CW. So, in
particular, low band CW performance is important to me. In between
contests I spend my time DXing, again primarily on the low bands. Some
occasional VHF operating on 6 and 2M.

I'd also like to point out that I do interface my radios to a dedicated
computer using Win XP pro and use N1MM for contesting and Logger 32 for
general operating. Both of these applications are very well supported
and the K3 is well represented among users.

I've narrowed my choices down to two radios, the FTDX5000 and the K3.
There are several things keeping me from falling in love with the
FTDX5000:

1) The CW break-in performance is broken in the FTDX5K above ~30 wpm,
resulting in chopped characters, and from what I'm told, really bad
sounding on the air.
2) The APF filter is also not working correctly.
3) The contour control does not function on CW, I believe only on SSB.

Of course, these limitations COULD be fixed by Yaesu in future revisions
but I'm apprehensive that Yaesu is going to fix anything. They
certainly don't participate in the FTDX5000 user forums although
supposedly they do read the posts. Sort of the "we know what we're
doing, there's no problem" attitude with JA radio manufacturers. After
all, how many FT-1000XX radios were built with the key click problem? I
don't think Yaesu ever admitted there was an issue and the fix was
relatively simple to implement in production.

At $5K plus one would hope these problems are addressed but one never
knows. Certainly Elecraft is much more responsive and is actively
involved in post sale issues and solutions.

I've never been a fan of ICOM HF radios although the IC-7800 gets good
reviews but at $10K per radio??? I've also used Ten-Tec before and
never been a big fan plus the Orion II suffers from a poor performing
2nd receiver and I know of several locals that have had there Orions
back for service/updates several times. So what else is there and am I
missing anything else?

Which brings me to the K3. This radio seems, to me, to be exactly what
I'm looking for. I really can't think of anything holding me back.

I'm looking at the 100W model with the following accessories:

a) KAT3
b) KXV3A
c) 2.8K 8 pole SSB filter
d) 400 hz 8 pole filter
e) 250 hz 8 pole filter

Future options would be the KRX sub receiver, K144XV-K 2M Module (I do
some VHF operating but presently have a rig for 2M SSB anyway), I'm
not currently using any receive antennas on 80/40M. I'd like an opinion
on this but I don't think I see the advantage to buying the sub receiver
UNTIL I have receive antennas available for diversity reception? What
am I missing here?

I don't operate any of the digital modes but I would like to do so. Is
the 2.8K filter adequate for digital modes or do I want something
different?

I also like the portability of the K3 as I am planning on some future
DX-pedition use. I can't see lugging a 43 pound FTDX5000 through
airport security either.

Sorry for the long post but I wanted to have a sanity check with some
experienced K3 users that know the K3 and have similar interests and
requirements. I'm on vacation this week and one thing I do plan on
doing is dropping by a local in or DX club and using his K3 for a couple
of hours.

Your thoughts and comments are appreciated.

--

73,

Gary K9GS

Check out K9NS on the web: http://www.k9ns.com
Greater Milwaukee DX Association: http://www.gmdxa.org
Society of Midwest Contesters: http://www.w9smc.com

************************************************
______________________________________________________________
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Post: mailto:[hidden email]

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ome: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
elp: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
ost: mailto:[hidden email]
This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
lease help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

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Alan Bloom-2

Re: Is P3/K2 marriage feasable?

Bill,

To FULLY integrate the P3 with a K2 will require extensive changes to
the P3 firmware. If less than full integration is satisfactory, you can
do that today. You need to add an IF output connector and a buffer
amplifier to the K2. Then in the P3, go into the "Xcvr Sel" menu
selection and choose the 4915 kHz IF. It works fine, but the P3 doesn't
read out the K2 frequency on the display and features like tap-to-QSY
are not available.

Adding K2 support to the P3 firmware is on my list of future features to
add. I have a K2 and have purchased the buffer amplifier kit from
Clifton Labs http://www.cliftonlaboratories.com/k2_interface.htm , but
have not installed it yet. I'm anxious to get to it as soon as I have
time.

Alan N1AL

On Sun, 2010-12-26 at 17:26 -0500, Bill wrote:

> Wondering what it would take to fully integrate a P3 with a K2?
>
>
> Perhaps its been done ??
>
> Bill K3UJ
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dave Perry <[hidden email]>
> To: garyk9gs <[hidden email]>
> Cc: 'Elecraft Reflector' <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Sun, Dec 26, 2010 3:54 pm
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Reason to NOT buy a K3?
>
>
> Gary,
> Regarding your question about digital modes and filters, the 2.8 kHz filter
> s fine for psk31 (which I operate only occasionally). I do operate a lot
> f RTTY contests, and I use the 400 Hz filter and then use the DSP filtering
> o decrease the bandwidth to 300 Hz. BTW, the K3 is far superior to the 850
> n RTTY reception due to this ability to use the narrow filters. The P3
> akes it even easier tuning in RTTY sigs during busy band conditions. As
> omeone else mentioned, you really have to see the P3 in operation to fully
> ppreciate its utility. It's a game changer as far as I am concerned!
> 73,
> Dave, N4QS

Jim Brown-10

Re: Reason to NOT buy a K3?

In reply to this post by Gary K9GS

On 12/26/2010 11:10 AM, Gary K9GS wrote:
> Your thoughts and comments are appreciated.

Some observations. You've pretty well hit many of the K3 advantages. One
BIG one you left out is the very strong customer-oriented,
customer-responsive Elecraft management, and easily accessible support
by phone or internet. Users want new features, Elecraft often delivers
them in updated versions of operating firmware, all of which are no cost
to the user. Users discover problems, Elecraft fixes them, either with
hardware fixes that the user buys at a nominal cost, or with updates to
firmware that are no cost to the user. The OWNERS of Elecraft read this
reflector daily, and respond directly when needed. The design and
operating features of the K3 are STRONGLY influenced by users of K3s,
many of whom are some of the best operators in the world. .

By contrast, Yaesu has a HISTORY of taking a decade to fix major
problems (the infamous key clicks of the MP and its decendents that make
an MP user 5 kHz wide), to to fix them, you don't upgrade the radio you
already own, you must buy the new model. Or you must open it up and do
the surgery yourself, on the instructions NOT of Yaesu, but of third
parties.

Other advantages of Elecraft -- you buy the options YOU need, not the
ones you don't. All documentation is on the website, including complete
schematics. Manuals aren't perfect, but updates are pdf's, published on
the website.

As to the 2nd RX -- I owned an MP before buying a K3, and that sold me
on the advantages of a 2nd RX for DXing and for contesting. For DXing,
you can listen on the split frequency where you're transmitting to help
you figure out WHERE you want to transmit. For contesting, you can use
the main RX to listen on your run frequency, while you use the sub-RX to
search for multipliers to work. VERY useful.

Reasons to NOT buy a K3? You have far more money than you'll ever need
so that cost is no object, and you want this monster box on your desk
with a big screen and lots of knobs. And you've got this insecurity
thing about needing something BIG! :)

73, Jim K9YC
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sm7vzx

Re: Reason to NOT buy a K3?

In reply to this post by Gary K9GS

Barry

Re: Reason to NOT buy a K3?

In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10

Don't buy a K3 if you're shack is very windy. It's so light, it may blow off the table :.)

Prior to the K3, I had an Icom 7800, and before that, an FT1000D.
Shortcomings of the 7800 include a useless APF and crippled computer control (I forget exact details, but as I recall there were some issues with split operation and inability to clear RIT from the keyboard, using the popular contest and logging programs). I loved my FT1000D, but it's getting old, replacement parts are no longer available, etc. I have no regrets owning the K3.

Barry W2UP

Arie Kleingeld PA3A-2

Re: Reason to NOT buy a K3?

There is no reason for NOT buying a K3 except for budget reasons.
But if you can afford one, and need top performance on HF, it sure is
Bang for the buck.

MHO: If you buy one, then buy the kit version.
(I own K3 #1255 and had to do several necessary hardware modifications
since I bought it. They were done without any problem, because I put it
together myself. I donot think there will be many more hardware mods
coming for in the latest version of the K3. But if one comes along in
the future it is a good thing if you bought the K3 as a kit. That makes
it easier.)

73 es HNY,

Arie PA3A

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David Pratt

Re: Reason to NOT buy a K3?

In a recent message, Arie Kleingeld PA3A <[hidden email]> writes
>MHO: If you buy one, then buy the kit version.

I agree with you there, Arie. Reading this reflector, many of the
queries and problems people have are from those who have bought the K3
ready built. Had they assembled their K3s they would have been capable
of making adjustments and solving the problems themselves.

73 de David G4DMP
--
+ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - +
| Website: http://www.g4dmp.co.uk |
+ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - +

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Julius Fazekas n2wn

Re: Reason to NOT buy a K3?

In reply to this post by Gary K9GS

Hi Gary,

You've already had a lot of great replies...

Thought I'd throw my two cents worth in at this late date:

The second RX is well worth having particularly for the low bands where you're more likely to be using a separate RX antenna. Too, if you're gonna be DX, it's VERY useful for listening to behavior on your TX frequency, as well as the pile up. Diversity RX is very useful at times, but if you don't have the antenna(s), it is kinda expensive to have just to say you have one...

I'd probably second the 500hz and 200hz options, not a big cost savings, but it could be put towards the second receiver... One can argue the performance difference between 5 pole and 8 pole, I've not seen a meaningful difference in my contesting activities.

For digital (RTTY), I'd suggest going with FSK and the aforementioned filters would be just fine.

The K3 is as competitive as you are... I think it is very functional, provides easy and competitive performance at a good price AND has a tremendous team behind it. Firmware is always being improved or having features added, which is more than you can say for some other companies. IF, you ever need to work on/repair one, it is fairly easy to do and parts aren't unobtainium.

One can argue about a radio's competitive advantage forever, there are so many things that go into "winning" beyond the radio. That being said, either the K3 or K2 are great contest radios IMHO. The K3 offers a lot of flexibility and growth options. Combined with KYBITC, decent antennas, decent QTH and decent propagation, you definitely will in great shape for the top 10 ;o)

Cheers and see ya in the fray!

73 and Happy New Year to all,

Julius

Julius Fazekas
N2WN

Tennessee Contest Group
http://www.k4ro.net/tcg/index.html

Tennessee QSO Party
http://www.tnqp.org/

Elecraft K2 #4455
Elecraft K3/100 #366
Elecraft K3/100

Able2fly

Re: Is P3/K2 marriage feasable?

In reply to this post by Alan Bloom-2

Thanks Alan.

Since whether or not Elecraft develops a K2 / P3 interface would be a matter of economics...

I won't be holding my breath waiting for an announcement.

But it sure would be cool !

73, Bill K3UJ

-----Original Message-----
From: Alan Bloom <[hidden email]>
To: Bill <[hidden email]>
Cc: elecraft <[hidden email]>
Sent: Wed, Dec 29, 2010 7:14 am
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Is P3/K2 marriage feasable?

Bill,
To FULLY integrate the P3 with a K2 will require extensive changes to
he P3 firmware. If less than full integration is satisfactory, you can
o that today. You need to add an IF output connector and a buffer
mplifier to the K2. Then in the P3, go into the "Xcvr Sel" menu
election and choose the 4915 kHz IF. It works fine, but the P3 doesn't
ead out the K2 frequency on the display and features like tap-to-QSY
re not available.
Adding K2 support to the P3 firmware is on my list of future features to
dd. I have a K2 and have purchased the buffer amplifier kit from
lifton Labs http://www.cliftonlaboratories.com/k2_interface.htm , but
ave not installed it yet. I'm anxious to get to it as soon as I have
ime.
Alan N1AL

______________________________________________________________
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Post: mailto:[hidden email]

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