Receive drops about 6 s-units

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Receive drops about 6 s-units

rlindzen
I'm having a problem with my K3 (with 2 receivers and a P3).  While listening for a few minutes, signals drop about 6 s-units.  Original strength returns when I push the PTT, but the drop returns after a minute or two.  None of this impacts transmit.  It seems like a bad relay.  Has anyone else encountered this?
73, Dick, WO1I
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Re: Receive drops about 6 s-units

Dave Hachadorian-2

This behavior is frequently caused by oxidation on a
normally-closed (relaxed) relay in the antenna chain.  Amplifier
relays, bandpass filter relays, antenna selector relays are all
suspects.  It also could be a poorly soldered contact in the
antenna, or an oxidized PL-259 center pin.  When you transmit, it
burns through the oxidation, which lasts only for a while.  A
treatment with Deox-it or a relay burnishing tool on the
offending contact is the cure.


Dave Hachadorian, K6LL
Yuma, AZ


-----Original Message-----
From: Dick Lindzen
Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2016 7:45 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Elecraft] Receive drops about 6 s-units

I'm having a problem with my K3 (with 2 receivers and a P3).
While listening for a few minutes, signals drop about 6 s-units.
Original strength returns when I push the PTT, but the drop
returns after a minute or two.  None of this impacts transmit.
It seems like a bad relay.  Has anyone else encountered this?
73, Dick, WO1I
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Pigtails on ANT1 and ANT2 UHF Bulkhead Connectors

Clay Autery
In reply to this post by rlindzen
I've decided to replace the SO-239 bulkhead connectors for ANT1 and ANT2
with N-Connectors, but I don't want to de-solder the pigtails from the
stock UHF connectors.

So I need to source new pigtails...

Does anyone know what the specs are for the pigtails?  What is that
little male pin called that plugs into the PCB, and what type/gauge wire
is used?

(I know, I know... I don't NEED N-Connectors at HF-6M, but I want to
standardize on N-connectors and BNC throughout my shack.)

______________________
Clay Autery, KG5LKV
(318) 518-1389

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Re: Pigtails on ANT1 and ANT2 UHF Bulkhead Connectors

Ken G Kopp
Morse Express sells kits with an SO-239 sized mounting plate, hardware and
a female BNC connector to do just what you're proposing.  It's a trivial
matter to unsolder the short jumper wire with the pin from the SO-239 and
move it to the BNC.

All the antenna connectors on my K3 and
wattmeter ... even my Bird ... are BNC's.

73

K0PP
On Feb 16, 2016 20:00, "Clay Autery" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I've decided to replace the SO-239 bulkhead connectors for ANT1 and ANT2
> with N-Connectors, but I don't want to de-solder the pigtails from the
> stock UHF connectors.
>
> So I need to source new pigtails...
>
> Does anyone know what the specs are for the pigtails?  What is that
> little male pin called that plugs into the PCB, and what type/gauge wire
> is used?
>
> (I know, I know... I don't NEED N-Connectors at HF-6M, but I want to
> standardize on N-connectors and BNC throughout my shack.)
>
> ______________________
> Clay Autery, KG5LKV
> (318) 518-1389
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
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Re: Pigtails on ANT1 and ANT2 UHF Bulkhead Connectors

Clay Autery
1) I'm converting from SO-239 to N-Connectors on the K3s's ANT1, ANT2
connectors....
2) I'm standardizing on one type of cable for "in the shack" stuff so
that I don't have to buy a bunch of different dies for my crimp frame...
until the tower feedline goes up.
3) I'm only using BNC where it already exists and for connection to some
of my test equipment, etc.

The bulkhead plate is a standard 1" x 1" square with holes on 0.718"
spacing...  standard , if there is one.

I KNOW it is a trivial task to desolder the pigtail...  I want to keep
the stock parts stock and in the parts container with the rest of the
spare hardware.

I want NEW pigtails to use, so I can return it to stock trim if the need
arises.

So...  I need to source the pigtail plugs, etc. to build new leads.

______________________
Clay Autery, KG5LKV
(318) 518-1389

On 2/16/2016 9:12 PM, Ken G Kopp wrote:

>
> Morse Express sells kits with an SO-239 sized mounting plate, hardware
> and a female BNC connector to do just what you're proposing.  It's a
> trivial matter to unsolder the short jumper wire with the pin from the
> SO-239 and move it to the BNC.
>
> All the antenna connectors on my K3 and
> wattmeter ... even my Bird ... are BNC's.
>
> 73
>
> K0PP
>
> On Feb 16, 2016 20:00, "Clay Autery" <[hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>
>     I've decided to replace the SO-239 bulkhead connectors for ANT1
>     and ANT2
>     with N-Connectors, but I don't want to de-solder the pigtails from the
>     stock UHF connectors.
>
>     So I need to source new pigtails...
>
>     Does anyone know what the specs are for the pigtails?  What is that
>     little male pin called that plugs into the PCB, and what
>     type/gauge wire
>     is used?
>
>     (I know, I know... I don't NEED N-Connectors at HF-6M, but I want to
>     standardize on N-connectors and BNC throughout my shack.)
>
>     ______________________
>     Clay Autery, KG5LKV
>     (318) 518-1389 <tel:%28318%29%20518-1389>
>
>     ______________________________________________________________
>     Elecraft mailing list
>     Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>     Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>     Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>     <mailto:[hidden email]>
>
>     This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
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>     Message delivered to [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
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Re: Receive drops about 6 s-units

Brian Hunt
In reply to this post by rlindzen
Every time that happens to me I go out and wiggle the window  line on my G5RV to find the latest break from flexing in the wind. It's the copper weld wire that cracks and eventually separates enough to fail completely. Will be replaced soon.

73,
Brian, K0DTJ

> On Feb 16, 2016, at 18:45, Dick Lindzen <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I'm having a problem with my K3 (with 2 receivers and a P3).  While listening for a few minutes, signals drop about 6 s-units.  
<snip>
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Re: Receive drops about 6 s-units

rlindzen
In reply to this post by Dave Hachadorian-2
Many thanks.  Yup, it was the amplifier relay.  I'll try Deox-it and hope for the best.  The relay on the Ameritron AL-800 is not all that accessible, but I think the contacts can be reached.
Dick, WO1I

-----Original Message-----
From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Dave Hachadorian
Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2016 9:54 PM
To: Reflector Elecraft
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Receive drops about 6 s-units


This behavior is frequently caused by oxidation on a normally-closed (relaxed) relay in the antenna chain.  Amplifier relays, bandpass filter relays, antenna selector relays are all suspects.  It also could be a poorly soldered contact in the antenna, or an oxidized PL-259 center pin.  When you transmit, it burns through the oxidation, which lasts only for a while.  A treatment with Deox-it or a relay burnishing tool on the offending contact is the cure.


Dave Hachadorian, K6LL
Yuma, AZ


-----Original Message-----
From: Dick Lindzen
Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2016 7:45 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Elecraft] Receive drops about 6 s-units

I'm having a problem with my K3 (with 2 receivers and a P3).
While listening for a few minutes, signals drop about 6 s-units.
Original strength returns when I push the PTT, but the drop returns after a minute or two.  None of this impacts transmit.
It seems like a bad relay.  Has anyone else encountered this?
73, Dick, WO1I
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Re: Pigtails on ANT1 and ANT2 UHF Bulkhead Connectors

Jim Brown-10
In reply to this post by Clay Autery
On Tue,2/16/2016 6:59 PM, Clay Autery wrote:
> I've decided to replace the SO-239 bulkhead connectors for ANT1 and ANT2
> with N-Connectors, but I don't want to de-solder the pigtails from the
> stock UHF connectors.

Why? UHF connectors are generally superior at HF and low VHF.

73, Jim K9YC
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Re: Pigtails on ANT1 and ANT2 UHF Bulkhead Connectors

Gary K9GS
Exactly Jim

N and BNC connectors are also more difficult to assemble.  Makes no
sense to me.

On 2/17/2016 12:41 AM, Jim Brown wrote:

> On Tue,2/16/2016 6:59 PM, Clay Autery wrote:
>> I've decided to replace the SO-239 bulkhead connectors for ANT1 and ANT2
>> with N-Connectors, but I don't want to de-solder the pigtails from the
>> stock UHF connectors.
>
> Why? UHF connectors are generally superior at HF and low VHF.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
>
> --
> 73,
>
> Gary K9GS
>
> Greater Milwaukee DX Association: http://www.gmdxa.org
> Society of Midwest Contesters: http://www.w9smc.com
> CW Ops #1032   http://www.cwops.org
>
> ************************************************
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Re: Pigtails on ANT1 and ANT2 UHF Bulkhead Connectors

john@kk9a.com
In reply to this post by Clay Autery
My station has a lot of N connectors on HF and I find them easy to install
on RG8 size coax. I recently installed BNC connectors on RG8X for my RX
system, I was previously using UHF to BNC adaptors. It took me a little
while to figure them out, but they are really not difficult either. I only
purchase Amphenol and Andrew connectors.

John KK9A

Gary K9GS garyk9gs at wi.rr.com
Wed Feb 17 07:24:47 EST 2016

N and BNC connectors are also more difficult to assemble.  Makes no
sense to me.

On 2/17/2016 12:41 AM, Jim Brown wrote:
> On Tue,2/16/2016 6:59 PM, Clay Autery wrote:
>> I've decided to replace the SO-239 bulkhead connectors for ANT1 and ANT2
>> with N-Connectors, but I don't want to de-solder the pigtails from the
>> stock UHF connectors.
>
> Why? UHF connectors are generally superior at HF and low VHF.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC

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Re: Pigtails on ANT1 and ANT2 UHF Bulkhead Connectors

Robert Nobis - N7RJN
In reply to this post by Gary K9GS
Gary, I find N-Type connectors just as easy to assemble as UHF connectors.  

73,


Bob Nobis - N7RJN
[hidden email]


> On Feb 17, 2016, at 05:24, Gary K9GS <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Exactly Jim
>
> N and BNC connectors are also more difficult to assemble.  Makes no sense to me.
>
> On 2/17/2016 12:41 AM, Jim Brown wrote:
>> On Tue,2/16/2016 6:59 PM, Clay Autery wrote:
>>> I've decided to replace the SO-239 bulkhead connectors for ANT1 and ANT2
>>> with N-Connectors, but I don't want to de-solder the pigtails from the
>>> stock UHF connectors.
>>
>> Why? UHF connectors are generally superior at HF and low VHF.
>>
>> 73, Jim K9YC
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>
>>
>> --
>> 73,
>>
>> Gary K9GS
>>
>> Greater Milwaukee DX Association: http://www.gmdxa.org
>> Society of Midwest Contesters: http://www.w9smc.com
>> CW Ops #1032   http://www.cwops.org
>>
>> ************************************************
> ______________________________________________________________
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Re: Pigtails on ANT1 and ANT2 UHF Bulkhead Connectors

Clay Autery
In reply to this post by Gary K9GS
Please cite your authority for the "superiority" of "UHF Connectors" to
quality N-Connectors.

I've been making all my own cables for 25+ years.  N-Connectors and BNC
connectors are no harder and "UHF" connectors are not any easier.  If
you've terminated enough cables with most any series connector, it gets
easier.  Has something to do with the right tools and experience.

Bottom Line:  I did not ask anyone to offer an opinion on UHF vs
N-Connectors.  I asked if anyone could tell me the name of the PCB pins
used on the pigtails and a wire/cable spec for the lead.  It only needs
to make sense to me.

Thanks!  And have a super day!

______________________
Clay Autery, KG5LKV
(318) 518-1389

On 2/17/2016 6:24 AM, Gary K9GS wrote:

> Exactly Jim
>
> N and BNC connectors are also more difficult to assemble.  Makes no
> sense to me.
>
> On 2/17/2016 12:41 AM, Jim Brown wrote:
>> On Tue,2/16/2016 6:59 PM, Clay Autery wrote:
>>> I've decided to replace the SO-239 bulkhead connectors for ANT1 and
>>> ANT2
>>> with N-Connectors, but I don't want to de-solder the pigtails from the
>>> stock UHF connectors.
>>
>> Why? UHF connectors are generally superior at HF and low VHF.
>>
>> 73, Jim K9YC
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>
>>
>> --
>> 73,
>>
>> Gary K9GS
>>
>> Greater Milwaukee DX Association: http://www.gmdxa.org
>> Society of Midwest Contesters: http://www.w9smc.com
>> CW Ops #1032   http://www.cwops.org
>>
>> ************************************************
> ______________________________________________________________
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Re: Pigtails on ANT1 and ANT2 UHF Bulkhead Connectors

Clay Autery
In reply to this post by john@kk9a.com
Thanks John!  Yes... a quality Amphenol or other name maker, the right
tools, and experience make them quite easy to use in terminating coax.
I have also had good experience with the TImes Microwave TC series AND
EZ series.
The EZ series makes it "literally" a snap to do with the right strip
tool and crimp dies for your frame.

But the original question remains:

What is the nomenclature for the pins on the leads?

Heyco makes a pin that looks similar, but it is 0.187" dia...  too big
I'm sure.

I'll probably have to buy the UHF kits from Elecraft and cannibalize them.

______________________
Clay Autery, KG5LKV
(318) 518-1389

On 2/17/2016 7:53 AM, [hidden email] wrote:

> My station has a lot of N connectors on HF and I find them easy to install
> on RG8 size coax. I recently installed BNC connectors on RG8X for my RX
> system, I was previously using UHF to BNC adaptors. It took me a little
> while to figure them out, but they are really not difficult either. I only
> purchase Amphenol and Andrew connectors.
>
> John KK9A
>
> Gary K9GS garyk9gs at wi.rr.com
> Wed Feb 17 07:24:47 EST 2016
>
> N and BNC connectors are also more difficult to assemble.  Makes no
> sense to me.
>
> On 2/17/2016 12:41 AM, Jim Brown wrote:
>> On Tue,2/16/2016 6:59 PM, Clay Autery wrote:
>>> I've decided to replace the SO-239 bulkhead connectors for ANT1 and ANT2
>>> with N-Connectors, but I don't want to de-solder the pigtails from the
>>> stock UHF connectors.
>> Why? UHF connectors are generally superior at HF and low VHF.
>>
>> 73, Jim K9YC
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

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Re: Receive drops about 6 s-units

Mike K2MK
In reply to this post by rlindzen
Hi Dick,

Don't be too quick to blame the amplifier relay. It could be your SteppIR yagi. This is a common SteppIR problem. QSY a bit so that the tuning light on the SteppIR controller turns on and off. Then tune back and forth over that frequency and listen for a drop in signal strength. If it occurs then it is the SteppIR EHU and not your amplifier relay.

73,
Mike K2MK

rlindzen wrote
I'm having a problem with my K3 (with 2 receivers and a P3).  While listening for a few minutes, signals drop about 6 s-units.  Original strength returns when I push the PTT, but the drop returns after a minute or two.  None of this impacts transmit.  It seems like a bad relay.  Has anyone else encountered this?
73, Dick, WO1I
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Re: Pigtails on ANT1 and ANT2 UHF Bulkhead Connectors

Jim Brown-10
In reply to this post by Clay Autery
On Wed,2/17/2016 6:21 AM, Clay Autery wrote:
> Please cite your authority for the "superiority" of "UHF Connectors" to quality N-Connectors.

N-connectors have a well known problem with migration of the center
conductor.

Many, including me, consider a soldered connector superior to crimps. I
note that you use crimps.

Many consider a UHF connector more robust.

Constant impedance simply doesn't matter below high VHF.

As to weatherproofing, I would never consider ANY connector waterproof,
and carefully seal all outdoor connectors.

I do use some N-connectors in my station, mostly to terminate some runs
of 7/8-in and 1/2-in hard line, most of which is used for long runs to
HF antennas.

73, Jim K9YC


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Re: Pigtails on ANT1 and ANT2 UHF Bulkhead Connectors

riese-k3djc
In reply to this post by Clay Autery
http://www.wa1mba.org/UHFconn.htm0

bob k3djc

On Wed, 17 Feb 2016 09:31:28 -0800 Jim Brown <[hidden email]>
writes:
> On Wed,2/17/2016 6:21 AM, Clay Autery wrote:
> > Please cite your authority for the "superiority" of "UHF
> Connectors" to quality N-Connectors.
>

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Re: Pigtails on ANT1 and ANT2 UHF Bulkhead Connectors

Rick WA6NHC-2
Remove the trailing zero (.htm only) and the link will work.

Rick nhc

Sent from my iPad

> On Feb 17, 2016, at 9:42 AM, <[hidden email]> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> http://www.wa1mba.org/UHFconn.htm0
>
> bob k3djc
>
> On Wed, 17 Feb 2016 09:31:28 -0800 Jim Brown <[hidden email]>
> writes:
>> On Wed,2/17/2016 6:21 AM, Clay Autery wrote:
>>> Please cite your authority for the "superiority" of "UHF
>> Connectors" to quality N-Connectors.
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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Re: Pigtails on ANT1 and ANT2 UHF Bulkhead Connectors

Clay Autery
In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10
Actually, for this application, I will be using Times Microwave
TC-series N-Connectors which are crimp/ solder for the shield/contact.

The pin is soldered to the center conductor with a 0.050" standoff from
the PE insulation.  The shield is crimped to the connector shell with a
0.255" hex crimp die against the shell body leaving a slight uncrimped
ring at the cable end for strain relief.  Finally, the supplied or
supplemental adhesive/sealant lined shrink tube is installed over the
appropriate area of the crimp to offer weather resistance.

The same method is used to terminate the TC-series BNC connectors.  It
is quite and easy process with the proper strip, de-bur, and crimp
frame/dies, and provides a very consistent termination.

I have used the EZ-series connectors in the past especially for static
wireless point-to-point antenna feed lines using LMR-400 and larger
cable.  The de-burred center conductor of a properly stripped end
"clicks" into the connector and crimped as above.
I have feed lines on PTP installs that have been in place for 10 years
using these connectors with ZERO problems.

Additionally, there is a third method that some cable makers use where
they use a proper die to crimp the center pin on FIRST, and then solder
the pin as a secondary connection.  This is generally over-kill, but I
have used this method in the past for terminations that MIGHT see some
rougher handling.

It all depends on the specific connector design, manufacturer, cable
type, installation considerations, et al.

Use the right connector and tools with the right cable stock, combined
with patience and skill.

I DO use crimp only connectors for 75-Ohm audio/broadcast cables (Canare
exclusively).  Almost exclusively indoors on apps where cable will not
be disturbed a lot.  Proper tools/dies and cable center conductor prep
as to straightness, deburring, cleaning insulator of stray shield bits,
center conductor length correct for crimp well and insulator contact, et
al. insure proper signal integrity and low/no leakage.

ALL connectors are vulnerable to mis-handling, weathering effects, etc.
And you are correct, ALL exterior connectors should be adequately
protected.  Personally, I use self-fusing tape or liquid products over
the entire connection, and then a quality UV resistant electrical tape
over that.  The electrical tape is then secured at the open end with a
UV resistant cable tie to guard against tape release.  The principle
being to restore the connection area to as close to an unbroken cable
outer jacket as possible.

Further, I generally use a cable stock like the Times -DB series which
is impregnated with a moisture excluding substance anywhere that is
tough to work on, long runs, etc... in addition to direct burial of
sub-surface conduit.

Bottom Line:  It may be over-engineering, but I've been making cables
for 25+ years; they work well and setting aside catastrophic situations;
they've never failed me.

But the original question remains:  "What are the pins on the ANT1 and
ANT2 lead ends that plug into the PCBs called?"

Have a great day!

______________________
Clay Autery, KG5LKV
(318) 518-1389

On 2/17/2016 11:31 AM, Jim Brown wrote:

> On Wed,2/17/2016 6:21 AM, Clay Autery wrote:
>> Please cite your authority for the "superiority" of "UHF Connectors"
>> to quality N-Connectors.
>
> N-connectors have a well known problem with migration of the center
> conductor.
>
> Many, including me, consider a soldered connector superior to crimps.
> I note that you use crimps.
>
> Many consider a UHF connector more robust.
>
> Constant impedance simply doesn't matter below high VHF.
>
> As to weatherproofing, I would never consider ANY connector
> waterproof, and carefully seal all outdoor connectors.
>
> I do use some N-connectors in my station, mostly to terminate some
> runs of 7/8-in and 1/2-in hard line, most of which is used for long
> runs to HF antennas.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
>
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> Message delivered to [hidden email]

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Re: Pigtails on ANT1 and ANT2 UHF Bulkhead Connectors

Ken Wagner K3IU
In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10
You might have luck communicating with
[hidden email].
73, Ken K3IU
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

On 2/17/2016 1:05 PM, Clay Autery wrote:
> But the original question remains:  "What are the pins on the ANT1 and
> ANT2 lead ends that plug into the PCBs called?"
>
> Have a great day!
>
> _

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Re: Pigtails on ANT1 and ANT2 UHF Bulkhead Connectors

ktalbott
Are you referring to a TMP connector, Taiko Denki (plug) TMP-K01X-A1
(Taiko-Denki) ?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-pcs-TMP-connector-Taiko-Denki-plug-TMP-K01X-A1-Ta
iko-Denki-/131727979173?hash=item1eab9972a5:g:qPIAAOSwRLZUHJQi

ken - ke4rg

-----Original Message-----
From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Ken
Wagner K3IU
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2016 1:13 PM
To: Clay Autery <[hidden email]>; [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Pigtails on ANT1 and ANT2 UHF Bulkhead Connectors

You might have luck communicating with
[hidden email].
73, Ken K3IU
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

On 2/17/2016 1:05 PM, Clay Autery wrote:
> But the original question remains:  "What are the pins on the ANT1 and
> ANT2 lead ends that plug into the PCBs called?"
>
> Have a great day!
>
> _

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