Elecraft › [K3]

Reduced gain/efficiency in SSB

Classic

List

Threaded

12 messages Options

Ignacy

Reduced gain/efficiency in SSB

A year ago the speech processor in K3 was excellent, delivering punchy signal. Now it feels less so. Here are some impressions.

1. With Heil HC5, the needed MIC gain for same ALC deflection is now 25 instead of 17
2. Compression of 24 delivers more less the same avg signal as 20 before
3. Contest compression of 28 before (no complains, no splatter, very efficient) is no longer attainable.

Does anybody have the same impression?

Ignacy

Don Wilhelm-4

Re: Reduced gain/efficiency in SSB

Ignacy,

No change detected here. But I have to ask whether you inadvertently
changed the mic gain range from high to low somewhere along the way.
That would explain your change in settings.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 12/16/2010 9:36 AM, Ignacy wrote:

> A year ago the speech processor in K3 was excellent, delivering punchy
> signal. Now it feels less so. Here are some impressions.
>
> 1. With Heil HC5, the needed MIC gain for same ALC deflection is now 25
> instead of 17
> 2. Compression of 24 delivers more less the same avg signal as 20 before
> 3. Contest compression of 28 before (no complains, no splatter, very
> efficient) is no longer attainable.
>
> Does anybody have the same impression?
>

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ

Re: Reduced gain/efficiency in SSB

Administrator

In reply to this post by Ignacy

We have made no changes to the K3s RF speech processor during that time
frame. It still gives excellent performance here.

73, Eric WA6HHQ
www.elecraft.com
---

On 12/16/2010 6:36 AM, Ignacy wrote:

ab2tc

Re: Reduced gain/efficiency in SSB

In reply to this post by Ignacy

Hi,

Which firmware version are you currently using? I am on 4.14 and see no issue with it re the way it was a year ago. I have been reluctant to move beyond 4.14 due to the continuing reports by several people raising doubts about various DSP functions such as NB and transmit audio.

AB2TC - Knut

Ignacy wrote

A year ago the speech processor in K3 was excellent, delivering punchy signal. Now it feels less so. Here are some impressions.

1. With Heil HC5, the needed MIC gain for same ALC deflection is now 25 instead of 17
2. Compression of 24 delivers more less the same avg signal as 20 before
3. Contest compression of 28 before (no complains, no splatter, very efficient) is no longer attainable.

Does anybody have the same impression?

Ignacy

Ignacy

Re: Reduced gain/efficiency in SSB

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-4

Perhaps I just did it. Many options and deteriorating memory...
Ignacy

wayne burdick

Re: Reduced gain/efficiency in SSB

Administrator

In reply to this post by ab2tc

Knut,

We haven't made any changes that would affect either existing DSP
receive functions or TX audio (except for the TX noise gate
improvements). We did add APF, but it's fully independent of other
functions.

Please load the latest code yourself to verify.

Of course whenever we hear reports like this, we recheck everything,
just to make sure.

73,
Wayne
N6KR

On Dec 16, 2010, at 8:29 AM, ab2tc wrote:

>
> Hi,
>
> Which firmware version are you currently using? I am on 4.14 and see
> no
> issue with it re the way it was a year ago. I have been reluctant to
> move
> beyond 4.14 due to the continuing reports by several people raising
> doubts
> about various DSP functions such as NB and transmit audio.
>
> AB2TC - Knut
>
>
>
> Ignacy wrote:
>>
>> A year ago the speech processor in K3 was excellent, delivering
>> punchy
>> signal. Now it feels less so. Here are some impressions.
>>
>> 1. With Heil HC5, the needed MIC gain for same ALC deflection is
>> now 25
>> instead of 17
>> 2. Compression of 24 delivers more less the same avg signal as 20
>> before
>> 3. Contest compression of 28 before (no complains, no splatter, very
>> efficient) is no longer attainable.
>>
>> Does anybody have the same impression?
>>
>> Ignacy
>>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Reduced-gain-efficiency-in-SSB-tp5841789p5842571.html
> Sent from the [K3] mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

k6dgw

Re: Reduced gain/efficiency in SSB

In reply to this post by Ignacy

On 12/16/2010 8:38 AM, Ignacy wrote:
>
> Perhaps I just did it. Many options and deteriorating memory...
> Ignacy
>

So many menu choices, so easy to forget. I keep what is now a Station
Notebook ... it used to be my engineering journal, I've kept one since
my first engineering prof told us we had to. After fooling with my new
K3 [#642] for awhile, and pretty well fouling up the settings, I went
back to the default, typed them into a text file, and pasted it down
into my notebook. I try and update it every time I change something, or
upgrade firmware and set some new parameter.

I say, "I try...," don't always manage to remember to do it, but it has
done wonders for me and my K3. Periodically, I HOLD instead of TAP, or
I hit the wrong button, and end up in a state I don't understand. So
far, I've found it every time with reference to my notebook.

I began this when 30m quit, no signals, no TX, infinite SWR. Wayne
called me, started to help me troubleshoot it and his first question
was, "Now, what antenna is selected." You can all fill in the blanks
after that. I've even photographed the front panel in a couple of cases
and pasted the photo in for a, "This is what it looked like when it
worked" picture.

73,

Fred K6DGW
- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the 2011 Cal QSO Party 1-2 Oct 2011
- www.cqp.org
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Mike Reublin

Re: Reduced gain/efficiency in SSB

Saving the K3 configuration using the K3 utility is a help also.

73, Mike NF4L

On 12/16/2010 6:22 PM, Fred Jensen wrote:

> On 12/16/2010 8:38 AM, Ignacy wrote:
>> Perhaps I just did it. Many options and deteriorating memory...
>> Ignacy
>>
> So many menu choices, so easy to forget. I keep what is now a Station
> Notebook ... it used to be my engineering journal, I've kept one since
> my first engineering prof told us we had to. After fooling with my new
> K3 [#642] for awhile, and pretty well fouling up the settings, I went
> back to the default, typed them into a text file, and pasted it down
> into my notebook. I try and update it every time I change something, or
> upgrade firmware and set some new parameter.
>
> I say, "I try...," don't always manage to remember to do it, but it has
> done wonders for me and my K3. Periodically, I HOLD instead of TAP, or
> I hit the wrong button, and end up in a state I don't understand. So
> far, I've found it every time with reference to my notebook.
>
> I began this when 30m quit, no signals, no TX, infinite SWR. Wayne
> called me, started to help me troubleshoot it and his first question
> was, "Now, what antenna is selected." You can all fill in the blanks
> after that. I've even photographed the front panel in a couple of cases
> and pasted the photo in for a, "This is what it looked like when it
> worked" picture.
>
> 73,
>
> Fred K6DGW
> - Northern California Contest Club
> - CU in the 2011 Cal QSO Party 1-2 Oct 2011
> - www.cqp.org
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraftfile:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/All%20Users/Start%20Menu/Programs/Ham/Elecraft/Elecraft%20K3%20Utility.lnk
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

Ignacy

Re: Reduced gain/efficiency in SSB

In reply to this post by k6dgw

Indeed the mic gain was low.

I useed CM500 in back and then for testing moved to HC5 in front. CM500 requires bias and low gain. HC5 does not need bias but needs high gain. BIAS is preserved but H/L is not. Perhaps H/L should be preserved as well.

But no big deal.

Ignacy

On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 6:23 PM, Fred Jensen [via Elecraft] <[hidden email]> wrote:

On 12/16/2010 8:38 AM, Ignacy wrote:
>
> Perhaps I just did it. Many options and deteriorating memory...
> Ignacy
>

So many menu choices, so easy to forget. I keep what is now a Station
Notebook ... it used to be my engineering journal, I've kept one since
my first engineering prof told us we had to. After fooling with my new
K3 [#642] for awhile, and pretty well fouling up the settings, I went
back to the default, typed them into a text file, and pasted it down
into my notebook. I try and update it every time I change something, or
upgrade firmware and set some new parameter.

I say, "I try...," don't always manage to remember to do it, but it has
done wonders for me and my K3. Periodically, I HOLD instead of TAP, or
I hit the wrong button, and end up in a state I don't understand. So
far, I've found it every time with reference to my notebook.

I began this when 30m quit, no signals, no TX, infinite SWR. Wayne
called me, started to help me troubleshoot it and his first question
was, "Now, what antenna is selected." You can all fill in the blanks
after that. I've even photographed the front panel in a couple of cases
and pasted the photo in for a, "This is what it looked like when it
worked" picture.

73,

Fred K6DGW
- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the 2011 Cal QSO Party 1-2 Oct 2011
- www.cqp.org
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

View message @ http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Reduced-gain-efficiency-in-SSB-tp5841789p5843932.html

To unsubscribe from Reduced gain/efficiency in SSB, click here.

Brian J. Linn

Re: Reduced gain/efficiency in SSB

In reply to this post by Ignacy

Following up on mic gain required, I'd like to inquire as to the
reasonableness of my settings.

Mic: Heil PR-781
straight into the K3
Mic Level: 55
Mic Bias: High
Compression: 18
TX EQ: modest adjustment center, nothing wild
Audio Reports: "great audio"

Seems like a
higher mic level than most run. It's the same for my Audio Technica
headset.

Thoughts?

Brian KD0HII
s/n 3672

>
> 1. With Heil HC5, the needed MIC
gain for same ALC deflection is now 25
> instead of 17
>

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Don Wilhelm-4

Re: Reduced gain/efficiency in SSB

Brian,

The number in the setting does not matter.
Your normal "microphone voice" and the particular microphone response
will dictate where you need to set those.

The important thing is to look at the ALC bargraph (with the compression
temporarily set to zero). If you are talking the ALC meter up to 5 to 7
bars (7th bar flashes on peaks), then you have it right - add
compression to your liking (you are using TX TEST for all this are you not).
At that point, you should be ready to go (until you change microphones).

73,
Don W3FPR

On 12/16/2010 6:54 PM, [hidden email] wrote:

>
> Following up on mic gain required, I'd like to inquire as to the
> reasonableness of my settings.
>
> Mic: Heil PR-781
> straight into the K3
> Mic Level: 55
> Mic Bias: High
> Compression: 18
> TX EQ: modest adjustment center, nothing wild
> Audio Reports: "great audio"
>
> Seems like a
> higher mic level than most run. It's the same for my Audio Technica
> headset.
>
> Thoughts?
>
>

N7US

Re: Reduced gain/efficiency in SSB

In reply to this post by Brian J. Linn

I have a PR781 and received several unsolicited reports of excellent audio.
I have the TX EQ set so it really doesn't sound much different than an HC-5,
I must admit, as I minimize the extreme lows and emphasize the highs.

The PR781 is not an electret so does not need bias.

Heil now has recommended settings for the K3 on their web site. It's the
last link at http://www.heilsound.com/amateur/settings/index.htm .

Settings depend on one's voice and how you want to sound. Here are three
combinations I've tried:
Prelim Final Heil
Mic Gain Range FP.h FP.L FP.L
Mic Gain 30 35
Comp 20 23
VOX Gain 15 18
VOX Delay 15 15

0.05 -16 -12 -12
0.1 -16 -10 -10
0.2 -4 -6 -6
0.4 0 -2 -2
0.8 0 0 0
1.6 +6 +6 +6
2.4 +8 +8 +8
3.2 +8 +10 +10

After all of that, I decided I liked the HC-5 more than the expensive PR781,
which probably makes sense given that my primary interest is DXing.

Jim N7US

-----Original Message-----

Following up on mic gain required, I'd like to inquire as to the
reasonableness of my settings.

Mic: Heil PR-781
straight into the K3
Mic Level: 55
Mic Bias: High
Compression: 18
TX EQ: modest adjustment center, nothing wild
Audio Reports: "great audio"

Seems like a
higher mic level than most run. It's the same for my Audio Technica
headset.

Thoughts?

Brian KD0HII

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html