Regarding the K3 and high QRN levels
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Regarding the K3 and high QRN levels
 
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I'm lurking this list to gain a feel for the K3. As it seems to be the
hot item these days, it's growing (glowing?) reputation makes it worth looking into. Recently, a thread took place on eHam (I know, I know...) about an op's issue with another DSP based rig and high levels of QRN. A comment in the thread from another op leaves the impression that his K3 also has the same response to high levels of QRN, a sort of reverb as he described it. Here is the thread in question: http://www.eham.net/articles/23975 My main desk rig is an FT-920 that I've had for over ten years and its DSP functions have seemed to help a lot with reducing the effect of QRN and I've not noticed what was described by the poster. As a K3 would necessarily replace the '920, I certainly would not want to take a step backward especially since QRN is common with 75m nets during the summer. My questions are twofold. First, is the "reverb" common or is it just certain ops who notice it? Second, from my research I know that the K3 is heavily DSP based, but also has provisions for IF filtering. Can te DSP essentially be "turned off" or otherwise disabled so that it functions as an analog rig which posters in that thread claimed as superior. Perhaps this is much to do about nothing. Don't get me wrong, I'm quite impressed by the various videos I've watched of the K3 in action which is the closest I can get to operating one before I buy. The numbers and the reviews look very good and I'm considering purchasing one later in the year. The QRN issue with DSP took me a bit by surprise which is why I'm asking. Thanks! 73, de Nate >> -- "The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all possible worlds. The pessimist fears this is true." Ham radio, Linux, bikes, and more: http://n0nb.us/index.html ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: Regarding the K3 and high QRN levels
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Nate
All you're going to get is "opinions" so the only way you can form your own is to listen to someone's K3 and compare it with your rig. Perhaps if you will tell us your QTH, someone on the list can let you take a listen some stormy night. 73 Steve N4LQ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nate Bargmann" <[hidden email]> To: <[hidden email]> Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 4:58 PM Subject: [Elecraft] Regarding the K3 and high QRN levels > I'm lurking this list to gain a feel for the K3. As it seems to be the > hot item these days, it's growing (glowing?) reputation makes it worth > looking into. > > Recently, a thread took place on eHam (I know, I know...) about an op's > issue with another DSP based rig and high levels of QRN. A comment in > the thread from another op leaves the impression that his K3 also has > the same response to high levels of QRN, a sort of reverb as he > described it. Here is the thread in question: > > http://www.eham.net/articles/23975 > > My main desk rig is an FT-920 that I've had for over ten years and its > DSP functions have seemed to help a lot with reducing the effect of QRN > and I've not noticed what was described by the poster. As a K3 would > necessarily replace the '920, I certainly would not want to take a step > backward especially since QRN is common with 75m nets during the summer. > > My questions are twofold. First, is the "reverb" common or is it just > certain ops who notice it? Second, from my research I know that the K3 > is heavily DSP based, but also has provisions for IF filtering. Can te > DSP essentially be "turned off" or otherwise disabled so that it > functions as an analog rig which posters in that thread claimed as > superior. Perhaps this is much to do about nothing. > > Don't get me wrong, I'm quite impressed by the various videos I've > watched of the K3 in action which is the closest I can get to operating > one before I buy. The numbers and the reviews look very good and I'm > considering purchasing one later in the year. The QRN issue with DSP > took me a bit by surprise which is why I'm asking. > > Thanks! > > 73, de Nate >> > > -- > > "The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all > possible worlds. The pessimist fears this is true." > > Ham radio, Linux, bikes, and more: http://n0nb.us/index.html > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Nate Bargmann
I'll probably get lynched for saying this, but for my ears I've never found
a DSP system that is as good as a pure analog system when there is rough noise. The K3 is much better than my Orion I, but I strongly prefer full analog IF's with rough noise or when a signal is right at noise floor and the floor is a little rougher than white noise. > Recently, a thread took place on eHam (I know, I know...) about an op's > issue with another DSP based rig and high levels of QRN. A comment in > the thread from another op leaves the impression that his K3 also has > the same response to high levels of QRN, a sort of reverb as he > described it. To me it sounds more like a little intermodulation or mixing of the noise and signal. I've even considered building an analog IF system just to see if I like it better. :-) 73 Tom ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: Regarding the K3 and high QRN levels
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In reply to this post by Nate Bargmann
Nate,
The K3 has many ways of combating both QRM and QRN. Admittedly, dealing with QRM is the easiest of the two - just narrow the bandwidth and position the passband for the best response. While narrowing the bandwidth will reduce the noise also, that alone is often not enough. The K3 combats QRN with the noise blanker and noise reduction. The K3 noise blanker can be either IF (analog) based or DSP based (or both). A Noise Blanker does exactly as the term says, it creates a "hole" in the signal path for the time of the noise - if the holes are too big, distortion of the received signal will take place - how aggressive those 'holes' are depends on the settings used, and those settings are under control of the operator. A noise blanker works best on short impulse type noise, like that from automotive ignition, it will not do as much for slow risetime and more distributed noise such as powerline noise. In any case, the setting should be adjusted to minimize the noise with as little distortion of the received signal as possible - the K3 has controls for that. Noise reduction is a different animal - it operates on correlation principles. It looks for something that appears to be a signal in the midst of noise, and builds a filter around that "signal". The K3 has 32 different settings for noise reduction, some more aggressive than others, and there is no one NR filter that is best for both CW and SSB - the variety of settings allows the user to set one for CW and another for SSB. Since the NR in the K3 creates a filter, it can make the signals sound "hollow" - perhaps that is what the reviewer called "reverb". The solution is to turn NR off or use a less aggressive setting. The user can (and should) experiment with the particular noise found at each location and on each band (for each season of the year) - the noise encountered will be different for each combination, and no "one size fits all" exists. The K3 does provide a variety of tools to combat noise, but they must be used with a little thought to find the best for any one situation. I guess the fact that the K2 does provide this variety of control can be disconcerting to someone just turning the K3 on and trusting that it will attack noise "magically". I prefer to have the level of control offered by the K3, but mine is only one opinion - I can run the radio, the radio does not run my operation. It sounds to me like the reviewer you ran across on EHam simply turned on the K3 NR (or NB) and expected magic to happen - it will, but it may not necessarily be good 'magic' in all cases, it depends on the noise. The K3 DSP is an integral part of the radio, not an "add-on", so it cannot be turned off. The DSP NR can certainly be turned off, or set to something less aggressive. 73, Don W3FPR Nate Bargmann wrote: > I'm lurking this list to gain a feel for the K3. As it seems to be the > hot item these days, it's growing (glowing?) reputation makes it worth > looking into. > > Recently, a thread took place on eHam (I know, I know...) about an op's > issue with another DSP based rig and high levels of QRN. A comment in > the thread from another op leaves the impression that his K3 also has > the same response to high levels of QRN, a sort of reverb as he > described it. Here is the thread in question: > > http://www.eham.net/articles/23975 > > > My questions are twofold. First, is the "reverb" common or is it just > certain ops who notice it? Second, from my research I know that the K3 > is heavily DSP based, but also has provisions for IF filtering. Can te > DSP essentially be "turned off" or otherwise disabled so that it > functions as an analog rig which posters in that thread claimed as > superior. Perhaps this is much to do about nothing. > > Don't get me wrong, I'm quite impressed by the various videos I've > watched of the K3 in action which is the closest I can get to operating > one before I buy. The numbers and the reviews look very good and I'm > considering purchasing one later in the year. The QRN issue with DSP > took me a bit by surprise which is why I'm asking. > > Thanks! > > 73, de Nate >> > > Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: Regarding the K3 and high QRN levels
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In reply to this post by Nate Bargmann
>I'll probably get lynched for saying this, but for my ears
I've never found >a DSP system that is as good as a pure analog system... Move over, Tom, we're in the same boat! VE7XF ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: Regarding the K3 and high QRN levels
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In reply to this post by W8JI
Possibly I don't understand all of the technical considerations, but doesn't what you say make sense from a theoretical standpoint anyway? An analog system is kind of the equivalent of infinite sampling and processing. I would expect there to be SOME less-than-perfect effect of sampling a weak signal in the presence of spiky noise with any realistic sampling rates. 73, Dave AB7E On 7/8/2010 2:39 PM, Tom W8JI wrote: > I'll probably get lynched for saying this, but for my ears I've never found > a DSP system that is as good as a pure analog system when there is rough > noise. The K3 is much better than my Orion I, but I strongly prefer full > analog IF's with rough noise or when a signal is right at noise floor and > the floor is a little rougher than white noise. > > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Ralph Parker
It's getting crowded in here.
--- On Thu, 7/8/10, ve7xf <[hidden email]> wrote: From: ve7xf <[hidden email]> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Regarding the K3 and high QRN levels To: [hidden email] Date: Thursday, July 8, 2010, 4:02 PM >I'll probably get lynched for saying this, but for my ears I've never found >a DSP system that is as good as a pure analog system... Move over, Tom, we're in the same boat! VE7XF ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: Regarding the K3 and high QRN levels
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In reply to this post by Ralph Parker
Not to say that either of you are using your rigs incorrectly, or that you're opinion is wrong, I loved my TS520 to death, but I've found that people who keep their RF gain cranked all the way up as high as it can go, then rely on the DSP NR to fix the noise for them are almost always disappointed or unimpressed with DSP noise filtering. The only time that I've ever heard the Reverb affect is when I have too much DSP trying to repair a noise issue that could have been taken care of by simply reducing the RF gain down to the noise floor level, or just above it, then introducing as little DSP as necessary to combat the noise. That along with other great features such as the Filters, NB, and Notch filter you can really get a nice clean signal out of the K3. I know this because I have a constant S3 noise level on 30 meters without the Pre-amp on, and S5 with it. On 40 I'll usually peak up to about S8 or S9 noise.. Still, with the above things I've mentioned I've been able to work weak signals with low noise interruption.. All without the mentioned Reverb affect. Being that you own the Orion 1 you should know this better than anyone. With the Orion you MUST keep that RF gain down (usually around 70 - 75) otherwise that DSP will completely fail.. I know the one I had did, every time. > From: [hidden email] > To: [hidden email] > Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 14:02:41 -0800 > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Regarding the K3 and high QRN levels > > >I'll probably get lynched for saying this, but for my ears > I've never found > >a DSP system that is as good as a pure analog system... > > Move over, Tom, we're in the same boat! > > VE7XF > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html _________________________________________________________________ The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_3 ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: Regarding the K3 and high QRN levels
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In reply to this post by W8JI
Tom,
I do agree that a specially tuned analog system will provide better results for the specific task that it is tuned for than a digital system any day. The advantage of digital is that it can be made "almost as good" while being more flexible through the use of computing power. Your desires tend toward weak signal CW operation on the low bands - we all know that. But an analog system tuned to those needs would not be ideal for ease of operation in say a ragchewing SSB situation - for one thing the filters are too narrow :-) . The major advantage offered by DSP is the ability to change the filtering with the turn of a knob, and process the modulation and demodulation tasks with computational algorithms rather than changing the hardware - tailoring the algorithms to each task. Is it as good as analog tuned for a specific task? NO - but it is usually better than a general purpose analog system that attempts to be "everything to everybody". The equivalent flexibility with the same degree of "best-ness" would be cost prohibitive if attempted in analog. 73, Don W3FPR Tom W8JI wrote: > I'll probably get lynched for saying this, but for my ears I've never found > a DSP system that is as good as a pure analog system when there is rough > noise. The K3 is much better than my Orion I, but I strongly prefer full > analog IF's with rough noise or when a signal is right at noise floor and > the floor is a little rougher than white noise. > > >> Recently, a thread took place on eHam (I know, I know...) about an op's >> issue with another DSP based rig and high levels of QRN. A comment in >> the thread from another op leaves the impression that his K3 also has >> the same response to high levels of QRN, a sort of reverb as he >> described it. >> > > To me it sounds more like a little intermodulation or mixing of the noise > and signal. I've even considered building an analog IF system just to see > if I like it better. :-) > > 73 Tom > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: Regarding the K3 and high QRN levels
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In reply to this post by Ralph Parker
On 2010-07-09 00:02, ve7xf wrote: >> I'll probably get lynched for saying this, but for my ears > I've never found >> a DSP system that is as good as a pure analog system... > > Move over, Tom, we're in the same boat! > > VE7XF > Getting crowded, hope it´s a big boat, I´m in there too. Jim SM2EKM ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: Regarding the K3 and high QRN levels
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Me too!
I'm not a K3 owner but I've had one here in the shack the past few weeks. Judicious use of the AGC settings has made it noticeably quieter and sweeter sounding than it was originally but as with all DSP radios I've heard it still 'sounds' harsh/rough. The primary box here is an Orion 565 and my baseline was coming from a TS940, maybe not the last word in ultimate receive performance but still a good radio, that together with a Collins S line have a quality of audio reproduction that I could listen too for hours on end. All rigs are still on line for comparison so not much guess work. By contrast I find the DSP radios a little tiring to say the least, maybe it's the audio circuitry itself, the O565 uses a TDA1013B, what does the K3 use? I find that reducing the filter taps from the default 199 makes the audio smoother, though that brings other issues, can the filter taps be changed with the K3? Cheers Martin, HS0ZED -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Jan Erik Holm Sent: 09 July 2010 13:38 To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Regarding the K3 and high QRN levels On 2010-07-09 00:02, ve7xf wrote: >> I'll probably get lynched for saying this, but for my ears > I've never found >> a DSP system that is as good as a pure analog system... > > Move over, Tom, we're in the same boat! > > VE7XF > Getting crowded, hope it´s a big boat, I´m in there too. Jim SM2EKM ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: Regarding the K3 and high QRN levels
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In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-4
Dear OMs and YLs
Sometime this forum produces some fine insights and guidance. This and the recent answers to the use of selectivity and noise controls have been helpful. Perhaps once the K3 design stabilizes, the manual can be upgraded to include more assistance but then I hope the K3 continues to progress and maybe half of us never carefully read the manual. It would also seem that we all have our own approaches but this forum allows us to learn from each other and perhaps prompts Elecraft to make adjustments - God bless them. TenTec has similar problems with newbie users learning to operate the radio and I believe the updated Omni was a partial answer for these users. A friend was even recommended the use of the Pro 3 over the Orion II as some thought it too difficult to operate. The K3 is a rig you grow into and grow up with. It can be used as an appliance at first and then one starts learning. A process which does not stop as the radio continues to be improved. Thanks to all of you for these questions, answers, insights and observations in this web based classroom. 73 Doug EI2CN ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: Regarding the K3 and high QRN levels
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In reply to this post by Nate Bargmann
>The K3 noise blanker can be either IF (analog) based or DSP
based (or both). >A Noise Blanker does exactly as the term says, it creates a "hole" in the >signal path for the time of the noise - if the holes are too big, >distortion of the received signal will take place - how aggressive those >'holes' are depends on the settings used, and those settings are under >control of the operator. I understand NB 'width' and 'depth' controls (for lack of better terms) on other radios, so I know what's happening as I adjust them. I am, however, confounded by the K3 settings - which one is 'wider'?, which one is 'deeper'? Increased or decreased effect with advancing numbers? Am I overooking something in the manual? An explanation would relieve some of my frustration with the K3. Then we can work on the keyed PTT and the reverse CW. VE7XF ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: Regarding the K3 and high QRN levels
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Have you looked at page 25 of the latest manual?
http://www.elecraft.com/manual/K3_Owner%27s_Manual_Rev_D7sm.pdf NB and NR settings are explained there. Also, regarding NR settings, this was posted a while back by Lyle: http://www.mail-archive.com/elecraft@.../msg81591.html in a discussion of changes to NR being made at that time (affecting settings F1-1 through F4-4, the fewer taps, the more "aggressive"). However there has been further change since then (e.g. the "mixed" settings described in the manual were restored later) so that explanation may or may not be current anymore. The manual plays it safe, only saying "In general, the higher the number, the more aggressive the noise reduction." without being specific about the meaning of the 2 digits in the setting. Bob NW8L On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 5:23 AM, ve7xf <[hidden email]> wrote: > I understand NB 'width' and 'depth' controls (for lack of > better terms) on other radios, so I know what's happening as > I adjust them. > > I am, however, confounded by the K3 settings - which one is > 'wider'?, which one is 'deeper'? Increased or decreased > effect with advancing numbers? > Am I overooking something in the manual? > An explanation would relieve some of my frustration with the > K3. > > Then we can work on the keyed PTT and the reverse CW. > > VE7XF Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: Regarding the K3 and high QRN levels
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In reply to this post by Martin Sole-2
I've found that if you do the "daughter card" audio mod (3.5Khz audio roll off) on the K3's DSP board that you will find listening to the audio for hours upon hours MUCH easier on the ears. I was able to tell the difference as soon as I turned the rig back on. It's not one of those kinds of things that you say "wow, that sounds so much better!" it's more like you say to yourself, wow, I'm not getting tired out listening to all this noise. It's more of a feeling than a sound. So when people ask me, does it sound better, my answer is no, but it sure does feel a lot more comfortable. This could be the fatigue you're speaking about Martin. > From: [hidden email] > To: [hidden email] > Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 14:12:26 +0700 > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Regarding the K3 and high QRN levels > > Me too! > > I'm not a K3 owner but I've had one here in the shack the past few weeks. > Judicious use of the AGC settings has made it noticeably quieter and sweeter > sounding than it was originally but as with all DSP radios I've heard it > still 'sounds' harsh/rough. The primary box here is an Orion 565 and my > baseline was coming from a TS940, maybe not the last word in ultimate > receive performance but still a good radio, that together with a Collins S > line have a quality of audio reproduction that I could listen too for hours > on end. All rigs are still on line for comparison so not much guess work. By > contrast I find the DSP radios a little tiring to say the least, maybe it's > the audio circuitry itself, the O565 uses a TDA1013B, what does the K3 use? > I find that reducing the filter taps from the default 199 makes the audio > smoother, though that brings other issues, can the filter taps be changed > with the K3? > > Cheers > Martin, HS0ZED > > -----Original Message----- > From: [hidden email] > [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Jan Erik Holm > Sent: 09 July 2010 13:38 > To: [hidden email] > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Regarding the K3 and high QRN levels > > > > On 2010-07-09 00:02, ve7xf wrote: > >> I'll probably get lynched for saying this, but for my ears > > I've never found > >> a DSP system that is as good as a pure analog system... > > > > Move over, Tom, we're in the same boat! > > > > VE7XF > > > Getting crowded, hope it´s a big boat, I´m in there too. > > Jim SM2EKM > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get more from your inbox. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_2 ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Bob Cunnings NW8L
Other than not reducing bandwidth appropriately, or not knowing there
is more than one NR setting, the greatest bar to satisfactory noise reduction in the K3 is running RF gain and preamp/att settings too loud. Band noise needs to be reduced to only moderately loud, or less, first by reducing PRE/ATT settings and then reducing RF gain. I have begun to wonder about adding a slow responding auto PRE/ATT/RF mode which sensed the levels of noise and auto set the PRE/ATT and several step reductions of RF gain until band noise was properly ranged for processing. At least then one could say to TRY the AUTO PRE/RF option without having to explain the mechanics of doing it manually. Or, perhaps, sinisterly, simply make this happen in the firmware without telling anyone. 73, Guy. ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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That sounds amazingly like automatic gain control, something I thought you "ride the r-f gain control" types studiously avoided.
--- On Fri, 7/9/10, Guy Olinger K2AV <[hidden email]> wrote: Or, perhaps, sinisterly, simply make this happen in the firmware without telling anyone. ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: Regarding the K3 and high QRN levels
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In reply to this post by The Smiths
"It's more of a feeling than a sound"
----------------------------------------------------- I have heard that if you use Boston speakers you'll get "More than a Feeling'. Steve N4LQ ----- Original Message ----- From: "The Smiths" <[hidden email]> To: <[hidden email]>; "Elecraft Reflector" <[hidden email]> Sent: Friday, July 09, 2010 12:20 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Regarding the K3 and high QRN levels I've found that if you do the "daughter card" audio mod (3.5Khz audio roll off) on the K3's DSP board that you will find listening to the audio for hours upon hours MUCH easier on the ears. I was able to tell the difference as soon as I turned the rig back on. It's not one of those kinds of things that you say "wow, that sounds so much better!" it's more like you say to yourself, wow, I'm not getting tired out listening to all this noise. It's more of a feeling than a sound. So when people ask me, does it sound better, my answer is no, but it sure does feel a lot more comfortable. This could be the fatigue you're speaking about Martin. ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Guy, K2AV
I should also like to point out that in a thread over a year ago, I mentioned that I thought the radio should be smart enough to know to do this.
http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-on-channel-strong-signal-overload-td2785612i20.html#a2801033 --- On Fri, 7/9/10, Guy Olinger K2AV <[hidden email]> wrote: Or, perhaps, sinisterly, simply make this happen in the firmware without telling anyone. ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: Regarding the K3 and high QRN levels
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In reply to this post by n7ws
Hmmm...that must be AGC, AFAIK my K3 does have AGC and it works!
"Riding the RF" was done back in the 50´ties. Ahmmmmm, you don´t mean to tell me that "riding the RF" is needed on a "super duper 2000 century CPU DSP whiz bang" design? If so we aren´t doing any progress here, by golly we are walking backwards Jim SM2EKM --------------------------------------------- On 2010-07-09 18:37, Wes Stewart wrote: > That sounds amazingly like automatic gain control, something I thought you "ride the r-f gain control" types studiously avoided. > > --- On Fri, 7/9/10, Guy Olinger K2AV<[hidden email]> wrote: > > Or, perhaps, sinisterly, simply make this happen in the firmware > without telling anyone. > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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