Resistor and capacitor installation techniques: trim before or after soldering?
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Resistor and capacitor installation techniques: trim before or after soldering?
 
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While reading through my new K2 kit's control board assembly instructions,
I see that some builders prefer to trim the resistor and capacitor leads before soldering. I'm intrigued by this, and wonder if someone who uses this technique can share their experiences. Do you the solder the component from the top of the board or bottom? How do you keep the component in place during soldering? I am assuming the value of this technique is in the resulting lower profile of the components on the backside of the board. Thank you. Mark AE6RT -- Mark ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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If I remember correctly they got soldered from the top side.
-----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Mark Petrovic Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2018 12:28 PM To: [hidden email] Subject: [Elecraft] Resistor and capacitor installation techniques: trim before or after soldering? While reading through my new K2 kit's control board assembly instructions, I see that some builders prefer to trim the resistor and capacitor leads before soldering. I'm intrigued by this, and wonder if someone who uses this technique can share their experiences. Do you the solder the component from the top of the board or bottom? How do you keep the component in place during soldering? I am assuming the value of this technique is in the resulting lower profile of the components on the backside of the board. Thank you. Mark AE6RT -- Mark ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
Re: Resistor and capacitor installation techniques: trim before or after soldering?
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Follow the instructions and solder as directed. There are components on both sides as I recall with the majority on the top. The leads need be spread to hold the components in place on the board. Once done soldering use a flush cut wirecutter to remove the excess. Not a good idea to trim them before soldering.
72 & 73, Bill K9YEQ FT'er for K2, KX1, KX3, KXPA100, KAT500, W2, etc. -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of [hidden email] Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2018 12:59 PM To: 'Mark Petrovic' <[hidden email]>; [hidden email] Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Resistor and capacitor installation techniques: trim before or after soldering? If I remember correctly they got soldered from the top side. -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Mark Petrovic Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2018 12:28 PM To: [hidden email] Subject: [Elecraft] Resistor and capacitor installation techniques: trim before or after soldering? While reading through my new K2 kit's control board assembly instructions, I see that some builders prefer to trim the resistor and capacitor leads before soldering. I'm intrigued by this, and wonder if someone who uses this technique can share their experiences. Do you the solder the component from the top of the board or bottom? How do you keep the component in place during soldering? I am assuming the value of this technique is in the resulting lower profile of the components on the backside of the board. Thank you. Mark AE6RT -- Mark ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
Re: Resistor and capacitor installation techniques: trim before or after soldering?
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In reply to this post by Mark Petrovic
Mark,
It is usual for most components to mount on the top side of the board and solder from the bottom. Splay the leads slightly to keep the components from falling out when you turn the board over. For components mounted on the bottom side of the board, I normally put them in the same way, and I will choose whether to solder them from the side the component is mounted on, or if there is enough space on the top of the board to solder from the top side without endangering the already mounted components on that side, I will solder from the bottom. With resistors and inductors, it is easy to solder on the side they are mounted, but with many capacitors that is not possible because the solder pads and capacitor pins are obscured by the component body. To pre-trim the leads and solder on the same side as the component can be difficult at times. Mounting components without pre-trimming the leads can be troublesome in some areas where components are already mounted on the other side. You need flush trimmers with a "nose" that will reach the lead to be cut betwen already mounted components. If you determine that you will not be able to trim the leads easily, then pre-trim the leads and solder from the same side as the component. Generally, there is only a need to pre-trim in selected areas. The KSB2 option is one of the option boards where you might want to consider pre-trimming the leads of the resistors mounted on the bottom of the board. 73, Don W3FPR On 3/24/2018 1:28 PM, Mark Petrovic wrote: > While reading through my new K2 kit's control board assembly instructions, > I see that some builders prefer to trim the resistor and capacitor leads > before soldering. I'm intrigued by this, and wonder if someone who uses > this technique can share their experiences. Do you the solder the component > from the top of the board or bottom? How do you keep the component in > place during soldering? I am assuming the value of this technique is in > the resulting lower profile of the components on the backside of the board. > > Thank you. > > Mark > AE6RT > Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
Re: Resistor and capacitor installation techniques: trim before or after soldering?
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In reply to this post by Mark Petrovic
When I went to “mil spec soldering school” at Sanders Associates in Nashua
NH back in the 80’s we were taught to install the component and mechanically secure it BEFORE soldering. This included clipping the leads of resistors, capacitors, and so forth. Why? When you clip a component lead it creates a very small “shock wave” that passes through the lead and on to the component. In some rare cases this MIGHT weaken the solder joint. Our boards were even weighed before and after assembly to estimate the total amount of solder applied. ALL joints were inspected under a stereoscope. All of this (and more) was part of the quality control and assurance program. This helped to reduce MTBF (mean time before failure) for our circuit boards. In my case I installed BRD-6/7 RDF surveillance receivers on Nuclear Attack Boats. Failure was not tolerated. Howie WA3MCK On Sat, Mar 24, 2018 at 13:29 Mark Petrovic <[hidden email]> wrote: > While reading through my new K2 kit's control board assembly instructions, > I see that some builders prefer to trim the resistor and capacitor leads > before soldering. I'm intrigued by this, and wonder if someone who uses > this technique can share their experiences. Do you the solder the component > from the top of the board or bottom? How do you keep the component in > place during soldering? I am assuming the value of this technique is in > the resulting lower profile of the components on the backside of the board. > > Thank you. > > Mark > AE6RT > > -- > Mark > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to [hidden email] > Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
Re: Resistor and capacitor installation techniques: trim before or after soldering?
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Actually one of the important points in soldering with thru-hole
components with plated hole boards is to watch the solder flow as you solder. You should see the solder wick down into the hole which minimizes the chances that the lead trimming process will cause a 'shock wave' that will fracture the solder. Put the soldering iron in contact with both the component lead and the solder pad (and keep it there). Apply the solder to the joint on the opposite side from the iron (a very small bit of solder at the iron tip will aid heat transfer). Then watch the solder flow. It should flow out to an almost invisible edge on both the component lead and the solder pad, then keep the heat on just a bit longer and the solder will wick down into the thru-plated hold. The entire process should take at least 2 seconds, but likely 3 seconds. With heavy leads on components, it can take up to 5 seconds. One thing that can help with fractured solder is the use of 'eutectic' solder alloys - the 63/37 alloy is one of them. Those have no plastic state - they go directly from molten to solid, and there is little danger of a "cold solder joint" if anything moves during the plastic state. The more commonly available 60/40 alloy does not have that property, and must not be moved while the solder is cooling. 73, Don W3FPR On 3/24/2018 6:51 PM, Howie WA3MCK wrote: > When I went to “mil spec soldering school” at Sanders Associates in Nashua > NH back in the 80’s we were taught to install the component and > mechanically secure it BEFORE soldering. This included clipping the leads > of resistors, capacitors, and so forth. > Why? > When you clip a component lead it creates a very small “shock wave” that > passes through the lead and on to the component. In some rare cases this > MIGHT weaken the solder joint. > Our boards were even weighed before and after assembly to estimate the > total amount of solder applied. > ALL joints were inspected under a stereoscope. > All of this (and more) was part of the quality control and assurance > program. > This helped to reduce MTBF (mean time before failure) for our circuit > boards. > In my case I installed BRD-6/7 RDF surveillance receivers on Nuclear Attack > Boats. > Failure was not tolerated. Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by Mark Petrovic
About Message#15 copied below....
Sorry but cutting wires after soldering is "bad practice"; NASA wanted the soldered connection left undisturbed. If I ever saw an assembler or tech doing that "bad practice", they'd get a verbal warning that first time and a written warning if it ever happened again; but I had good, conscientious people and never had to do that. So, tin the wires if needed; position the part and then trim wires before doing the final soldering. 73 Jerry KM3K Message: 15 Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2018 19:39:47 +0000 From: Bill Johnson <[hidden email]> To: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>, 'Mark Petrovic' <[hidden email]>, "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Resistor and capacitor installation techniques: trim before or after soldering? Message-ID: <[hidden email]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Follow the instructions and solder as directed. There are components on both sides as I recall with the majority on the top. The leads need be spread to hold the components in place on the board. Once done soldering use a flush cut wirecutter to remove the excess. Not a good idea to trim them before soldering. 72 & 73, Bill K9YEQ FT'er for K2, KX1, KX3, KXPA100, KAT500, W2, etc. ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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That's probably good advice from NASA. However in 50 years, I've never cracked a solder joint by trimming off the excess lead after soldering. I can see how it could be imagined to happen and safer for sure if you are not going to be able to fix it should it ever happen.
Chuck Hawley [hidden email] Amateur Radio, KE9UW aka Jack, BMW Motorcycles ________________________________________ From: [hidden email] [[hidden email]] on behalf of JEROME SODUS [[hidden email]] Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2018 10:40 PM To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Resistor and capacitor installation techniques: trim before or after soldering? About Message#15 copied below.... Sorry but cutting wires after soldering is "bad practice"; NASA wanted the soldered connection left undisturbed. If I ever saw an assembler or tech doing that "bad practice", they'd get a verbal warning that first time and a written warning if it ever happened again; but I had good, conscientious people and never had to do that. So, tin the wires if needed; position the part and then trim wires before doing the final soldering. 73 Jerry KM3K Message: 15 Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2018 19:39:47 +0000 From: Bill Johnson <[hidden email]> To: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>, 'Mark Petrovic' <[hidden email]>, "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Resistor and capacitor installation techniques: trim before or after soldering? Message-ID: <[hidden email]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Follow the instructions and solder as directed. There are components on both sides as I recall with the majority on the top. The leads need be spread to hold the components in place on the board. Once done soldering use a flush cut wirecutter to remove the excess. Not a good idea to trim them before soldering. 72 & 73, Bill K9YEQ FT'er for K2, KX1, KX3, KXPA100, KAT500, W2, etc. ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email]
Chuck, KE9UW
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And trimming before soldering allows the exposed copper “end” of the lead to be coated with solder thus eliminating corrosion to the bare copper.
Sent from my iPhone ...nr4c. bill > On Mar 25, 2018, at 2:05 PM, hawley, charles j jr <[hidden email]> wrote: > > That's probably good advice from NASA. However in 50 years, I've never cracked a solder joint by trimming off the excess lead after soldering. I can see how it could be imagined to happen and safer for sure if you are not going to be able to fix it should it ever happen. > > Chuck Hawley > [hidden email] > > Amateur Radio, KE9UW > aka Jack, BMW Motorcycles > ________________________________________ > From: [hidden email] [[hidden email]] on behalf of JEROME SODUS [[hidden email]] > Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2018 10:40 PM > To: [hidden email] > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Resistor and capacitor installation techniques: trim before or after soldering? > > About Message#15 copied below.... > > Sorry but cutting wires after soldering is "bad practice"; NASA wanted the soldered connection left undisturbed. > > If I ever saw an assembler or tech doing that "bad practice", they'd get a verbal warning that first time and a written warning if it ever happened again; but I had good, conscientious people and never had to do that. > > So, tin the wires if needed; position the part and then trim wires before doing the final soldering. > > 73 Jerry KM3K > > > > Message: 15 > Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2018 19:39:47 +0000 > From: Bill Johnson <[hidden email]> > To: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>, 'Mark Petrovic' > <[hidden email]>, "[hidden email]" > <[hidden email]> > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Resistor and capacitor installation > techniques: trim before or after soldering? > Message-ID: > <[hidden email]> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Follow the instructions and solder as directed. There are components on both sides as I recall with the majority on the top. The leads need be spread to hold the components in place on the board. Once done soldering use a flush cut wirecutter to remove the excess. Not a good idea to trim them before soldering. > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
Re: Resistor and capacitor installation techniques: trim before or after soldering?
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I populate, solder, cut, re-solder.
72 & 73, Bill K9YEQ FT’er for K2, KX1, KX3, KXPA100, KAT500, W2, etc. -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Nr4c Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2018 4:08 PM To: hawley, charles j jr <[hidden email]> Cc: [hidden email]; JEROME SODUS <[hidden email]> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Resistor and capacitor installation techniques: trim before or after soldering? And trimming before soldering allows the exposed copper “end” of the lead to be coated with solder thus eliminating corrosion to the bare copper. Sent from my iPhone ...nr4c. bill > On Mar 25, 2018, at 2:05 PM, hawley, charles j jr <[hidden email]> wrote: > > That's probably good advice from NASA. However in 50 years, I've never cracked a solder joint by trimming off the excess lead after soldering. I can see how it could be imagined to happen and safer for sure if you are not going to be able to fix it should it ever happen. > > Chuck Hawley > [hidden email] > > Amateur Radio, KE9UW > aka Jack, BMW Motorcycles > ________________________________________ > From: [hidden email] > [[hidden email]] on behalf of JEROME SODUS > [[hidden email]] > Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2018 10:40 PM > To: [hidden email] > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Resistor and capacitor installation techniques: trim before or after soldering? > > About Message#15 copied below.... > > Sorry but cutting wires after soldering is "bad practice"; NASA wanted the soldered connection left undisturbed. > > If I ever saw an assembler or tech doing that "bad practice", they'd get a verbal warning that first time and a written warning if it ever happened again; but I had good, conscientious people and never had to do that. > > So, tin the wires if needed; position the part and then trim wires before doing the final soldering. > > 73 Jerry KM3K > > > > Message: 15 > Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2018 19:39:47 +0000 > From: Bill Johnson <[hidden email]> > To: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>, 'Mark Petrovic' > <[hidden email]>, "[hidden email]" > <[hidden email]> > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Resistor and capacitor installation > techniques: trim before or after soldering? > Message-ID: > <[hidden email] > LOOK.COM> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Follow the instructions and solder as directed. There are components on both sides as I recall with the majority on the top. The leads need be spread to hold the components in place on the board. Once done soldering use a flush cut wirecutter to remove the excess. Not a good idea to trim them before soldering. > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
Re: Resistor and capacitor installation techniques: trim before or after soldering?
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I do also carefully reflow...... Don't what any popping loose. Usually with a finger on the part. Wrist strap on of course.....
Mel, K6KBE From: Bill Johnson <[hidden email]> To: Cc: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]> Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2018 2:31 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Resistor and capacitor installation techniques: trim before or after soldering? I populate, solder, cut, re-solder. 72 & 73, Bill K9YEQ FT’er for K2, KX1, KX3, KXPA100, KAT500, W2, etc. -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Nr4c Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2018 4:08 PM To: hawley, charles j jr <[hidden email]> Cc: [hidden email]; JEROME SODUS <[hidden email]> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Resistor and capacitor installation techniques: trim before or after soldering? And trimming before soldering allows the exposed copper “end” of the lead to be coated with solder thus eliminating corrosion to the bare copper. Sent from my iPhone ...nr4c. bill > On Mar 25, 2018, at 2:05 PM, hawley, charles j jr <[hidden email]> wrote: > > That's probably good advice from NASA. However in 50 years, I've never cracked a solder joint by trimming off the excess lead after soldering. I can see how it could be imagined to happen and safer for sure if you are not going to be able to fix it should it ever happen. > > Chuck Hawley > [hidden email] > > Amateur Radio, KE9UW > aka Jack, BMW Motorcycles > ________________________________________ > From: [hidden email] > [[hidden email]] on behalf of JEROME SODUS > [[hidden email]] > Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2018 10:40 PM > To: [hidden email] > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Resistor and capacitor installation techniques: trim before or after soldering? > > About Message#15 copied below.... > > Sorry but cutting wires after soldering is "bad practice"; NASA wanted the soldered connection left undisturbed. > > If I ever saw an assembler or tech doing that "bad practice", they'd get a verbal warning that first time and a written warning if it ever happened again; but I had good, conscientious people and never had to do that. > > So, tin the wires if needed; position the part and then trim wires before doing the final soldering. > > 73 Jerry KM3K > > > > Message: 15 > Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2018 19:39:47 +0000 > From: Bill Johnson <[hidden email]> > To: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>, 'Mark Petrovic' > <[hidden email]>, "[hidden email]" > <[hidden email]> > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Resistor and capacitor installation > techniques: trim before or after soldering? > Message-ID: > <[hidden email] > LOOK.COM> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Follow the instructions and solder as directed. There are components on both sides as I recall with the majority on the top. The leads need be spread to hold the components in place on the board. Once done soldering use a flush cut wirecutter to remove the excess. Not a good idea to trim them before soldering. > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
Re: Resistor and capacitor installation techniques: trim before or after soldering?
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I use a Hakko 936, wrist strap and 700 degrees F. Very small tip and Kester .015. I have used larger including a Radio shack el cheapo and much larger solder when I built my K2 #35 in Circa 1999.
72 & 73, Bill K9YEQ FT’er for K2, KX1, KX3, KXPA100, KAT500, W2, etc. From: Mel Farrer <[hidden email]> Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2018 4:35 PM To: Bill Johnson <[hidden email]> Cc: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Resistor and capacitor installation techniques: trim before or after soldering? I do also carefully reflow...... Don't what any popping loose. Usually with a finger on the part. Wrist strap on of course..... Mel, K6KBE ________________________________ From: Bill Johnson <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>> To: Cc: "[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>" <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>> Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2018 2:31 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Resistor and capacitor installation techniques: trim before or after soldering? I populate, solder, cut, re-solder. 72 & 73, Bill K9YEQ FT’er for K2, KX1, KX3, KXPA100, KAT500, W2, etc. -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]> <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>> On Behalf Of Nr4c Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2018 4:08 PM To: hawley, charles j jr <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>> Cc: [hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>; JEROME SODUS <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Resistor and capacitor installation techniques: trim before or after soldering? And trimming before soldering allows the exposed copper “end” of the lead to be coated with solder thus eliminating corrosion to the bare copper. Sent from my iPhone ...nr4c. bill > On Mar 25, 2018, at 2:05 PM, hawley, charles j jr <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote: > > That's probably good advice from NASA. However in 50 years, I've never cracked a solder joint by trimming off the excess lead after soldering. I can see how it could be imagined to happen and safer for sure if you are not going to be able to fix it should it ever happen. > > Chuck Hawley > [hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]> > > Amateur Radio, KE9UW > aka Jack, BMW Motorcycles > ________________________________________ > From: [hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]> > [[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>] on behalf of JEROME SODUS > [[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>] > Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2018 10:40 PM > To: [hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]> > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Resistor and capacitor installation techniques: trim before or after soldering? > > About Message#15 copied below.... > > Sorry but cutting wires after soldering is "bad practice"; NASA wanted the soldered connection left undisturbed. > > If I ever saw an assembler or tech doing that "bad practice", they'd get a verbal warning that first time and a written warning if it ever happened again; but I had good, conscientious people and never had to do that. > > So, tin the wires if needed; position the part and then trim wires before doing the final soldering. > > 73 Jerry KM3K > > > > Message: 15 > Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2018 19:39:47 +0000 > From: Bill Johnson <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>> > To: "[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>" <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>>, 'Mark Petrovic' > <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>>, "[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>" > <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>> > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Resistor and capacitor installation > techniques: trim before or after soldering? > Message-ID: > <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]> > LOOK.COM> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Follow the instructions and solder as directed. There are components on both sides as I recall with the majority on the top. The leads need be spread to hold the components in place on the board. Once done soldering use a flush cut wirecutter to remove the excess. Not a good idea to trim them before soldering. > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net<http://www.qsl.net/> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]> ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net<http://www.qsl.net/> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]> ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
Re: Resistor and capacitor installation techniques: trim before or after soldering?
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In reply to this post by Bill K9YEQ
I only use "non-GMO enhanced" solder that is free-ranged.
Also, only natural lead & pure tin mined by hand without polluting equipment is used with rosin (flux) from contented pine trees that have at least one wild endangered species bird nest in it. 73, Charlie k3ICH ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
Re: Resistor and capacitor installation techniques: trim before or after soldering?
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In reply to this post by Mark Petrovic
For commercial products, there is IPC-610. That is 400+ pages of
descriptions of how to determine acceptability of and build electronic assemblies. It has very clear explanations and lots of pictures and diagrams of right and wrong ways to do things. Unfortunately, you may have to pay to get a copy. There are also a whole series of more specific specification documents for certain operations, but IPC-610 will have most of what you need to know. At least, it is what I look at first. Section 7.3.5.9 allows trimming after soldering if the trimming does not damage the solder. For certain classes of products, a visual inspection at 10X is required. Reflowing after cutting is also acceptable instead of inspection. I believe there are special trimmers that minimize shock during the trimming process. I attempt to follow IPC-610, although my skills may not be fully up to the task. At least I know where I fall short. 73, Mark W7MLG On Sat, Mar 24, 2018 at 10:28 AM, Mark Petrovic <[hidden email]> wrote: > While reading through my new K2 kit's control board assembly instructions, > I see that some builders prefer to trim the resistor and capacitor leads > before soldering. I'm intrigued by this, and wonder if someone who uses > this technique can share their experiences. Do you the solder the component > from the top of the board or bottom? How do you keep the component in > place during soldering? I am assuming the value of this technique is in > the resulting lower profile of the components on the backside of the board. > > Thank you. > > Mark > AE6RT > > -- > Mark > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to [hidden email] > Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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Mark,
Does IPC-610 also cover automotive products? N2TK, Tony -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Mark Goldberg Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2018 6:20 PM To: Elecraft Mailing List <[hidden email]> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Resistor and capacitor installation techniques: trim before or after soldering? For commercial products, there is IPC-610. That is 400+ pages of descriptions of how to determine acceptability of and build electronic assemblies. It has very clear explanations and lots of pictures and diagrams of right and wrong ways to do things. Unfortunately, you may have to pay to get a copy. There are also a whole series of more specific specification documents for certain operations, but IPC-610 will have most of what you need to know. At least, it is what I look at first. Section 7.3.5.9 allows trimming after soldering if the trimming does not damage the solder. For certain classes of products, a visual inspection at 10X is required. Reflowing after cutting is also acceptable instead of inspection. I believe there are special trimmers that minimize shock during the trimming process. I attempt to follow IPC-610, although my skills may not be fully up to the task. At least I know where I fall short. 73, Mark W7MLG On Sat, Mar 24, 2018 at 10:28 AM, Mark Petrovic <[hidden email]> wrote: > While reading through my new K2 kit's control board assembly > instructions, I see that some builders prefer to trim the resistor and > capacitor leads before soldering. I'm intrigued by this, and wonder > if someone who uses this technique can share their experiences. Do you > the solder the component from the top of the board or bottom? How do > you keep the component in place during soldering? I am assuming the > value of this technique is in the resulting lower profile of the components on the backside of the board. > > Thank you. > > Mark > AE6RT > > -- > Mark > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email > list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to > [hidden email] > Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
Re: Resistor and capacitor installation techniques: trim before or after soldering?
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IPC-610 is really an acceptance criteria, what it should look like after it
is done. A company or industry can choose to use this or not. Some think it has caused companies to build in lower cost countries that don't actually follow it, but claim to. One of the major standards to build to is J-STD-001. I have and use that too, but IPC-610 has more info about what it should look like after it is done. So, IPC-610 and J-STD-001 are what I am familiar with, so I use them and other referenced standards. They have three classes. Generally the highest Class 3 is considered for high performance or critical systems. If I was an automotive company, that is what I would use. For commercial products, lower Class 2 or even the lowest Class 1 might be OK. My work probably meets Class 1 most of the time. Some manufacturers have done things not in the specs for their own reasons, such as phone makers using low silver content lead free solder because it works well in shock (dropped phones) but not so much in vibration that may be found in aircraft or autos. The specs may be used for anything if you wish. NASA has had their own specs (NASA-STD-8739.3, superseded by J-STS-001-FS which I have never seen as I never worked on space products) and other manufacturer's may have their own specs too. I just don't know who actually uses them. You can Google these various standards and find some old versions for free, but most of the latest ones will cost you. They are long and boring, but I generally search for what I want to do and read that section. I used to work with some of the fine people who wrote the standards to point out the right sections to me. These standards are updated after thousands of hours of testing and experimentation. I was also able to watch some very skilled people solder. My skills pale in comparison, but I try. 73, Mark W7MLG On Sun, Mar 25, 2018 at 3:22 PM, N2TK, Tony <[hidden email]> wrote: > Mark, > Does IPC-610 also cover automotive products? > N2TK, Tony > > -----Original Message----- > From: [hidden email] > [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Mark Goldberg > Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2018 6:20 PM > To: Elecraft Mailing List <[hidden email]> > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Resistor and capacitor installation techniques: > trim > before or after soldering? > > For commercial products, there is IPC-610. That is 400+ pages of > descriptions of how to determine acceptability of and build electronic > assemblies. It has very clear explanations and lots of pictures and > diagrams > of right and wrong ways to do things. > > Unfortunately, you may have to pay to get a copy. There are also a whole > series of more specific specification documents for certain operations, but > IPC-610 will have most of what you need to know. At least, it is what I > look > at first. > > Section 7.3.5.9 allows trimming after soldering if the trimming does not > damage the solder. For certain classes of products, a visual inspection at > 10X is required. Reflowing after cutting is also acceptable instead of > inspection. I believe there are special trimmers that minimize shock during > the trimming process. > > I attempt to follow IPC-610, although my skills may not be fully up to the > task. At least I know where I fall short. > > 73, > > Mark > W7MLG > > > On Sat, Mar 24, 2018 at 10:28 AM, Mark Petrovic <[hidden email]> > wrote: > > > While reading through my new K2 kit's control board assembly > > instructions, I see that some builders prefer to trim the resistor and > > capacitor leads before soldering. I'm intrigued by this, and wonder > > if someone who uses this technique can share their experiences. Do you > > the solder the component from the top of the board or bottom? How do > > you keep the component in place during soldering? I am assuming the > > value of this technique is in the resulting lower profile of the > components on the backside of the board. > > > > Thank you. > > > > Mark > > AE6RT > > > > -- > > Mark > > ______________________________________________________________ > > Elecraft mailing list > > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email > > list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to > > [hidden email] > > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message > delivered to [hidden email] > > Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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