SDR with a Twist

[KK7P]

  I just received my FLEX-1500.   I think they have shipped 1,000 of
these in the last few weeks, erasing their backlog dating about 12
months.  It has a transmit problem and is going back to the factory for
repair, but examining the unit got me to thinking once more about PC
based SDR, Elecraft and our unique place in Amateur radio.

Please bear with me.

The Flex is a dual Eurocard box, so it measures about 4 x 6 x 2.  It has
a 5W Tx with band coverage limits, and a 1 mW transverter side with no
band limits.  It covers 160m - 6m continuously ,using a DDS. It accepts
a 10 MHz reference and a lot of the focus of the radio is toward
microwave and VHF/UHF folks.  But they are also trying hard to break
ground into the QRP community, as witnessed by their blitz at Dayton
last year at the QRP hotel.

An almost universal complaint with the Flex products, including the
-1500, is less-than-stellar CW performance.  The internal keyer is
rough, it doe snot do QSK, it uses T/R relays, etc.

PowerSDR is a screen hog.

The -1500 does not support VOX.  It doesn't even have a speaker amplifier.

Etc.

Here is my thought:

Elecraft makes a box about the size of the -1500.  It has a basic 10W
transceiver, space for internal battery (option), space for an internal
ATU (option).  Rather than leverage PowerSDR we enter an agreement with
Alex, VE3NEA.  He was written Rocky which has an elegant, eminnently
uncluttered UI.  Rocky is freeware, but he could tailor it to our new
product. It is not open source.  He'd get a royalty or some upfront
engineering payment.  Alex is the author of CW SKimmer, so this opens
more markets for that software for him.  ROcky woudlnt' need much to be
a great user program for us.

And -bing! - it uses little screen real estate, so our portable unit is
Netbook compatible.  PowerSDR is a hog on a netbook, and you have to use
an expanded screen so you can;t even see the minimum PowerSDR screen all
at once, never mind trying to run some logging program, or skimmer, or
digimode stuff.

Oh, and it already supports the Si570 :-)

Netbooks are cheap, $300 typical, and have long-enough lasting batteries
for a day in the field.

If you've never played with Rocky, you should. Get a $19 softrock from
KB9YIG and fire it up with Rocky.  You'll be impressed with what Alex
has done.

Our SDR woudl have a K1EL WinKeyer (or similar) to get around the iambic
keyer propblem and windows lantency that Flex has been fighting for
years now.  With our 10W PA and PIN diode T/R switching, we beat FLex
hands down for our groupies, the QRP CW operators of the world.

With the battery option and internal ATU option, we've got a portable
radio station that is inexpensive, powerful and highly portable.

With Alex doing the Rocky code, our support issues are reduced.  We're
not trying to appeal to an open-source religious community,

We'd fall a bit short with no external reference input.  We could do a
frequency locked system with the Si570, but not a phase-locked one.  
Then again, how many people are really doing moonbounce and need that
additional stability and accuracy?

Using the TI PCM2900 series CODEC (I suspect FLex uses this as well, I
haven't opened my -1500 and it is now in the hands of UPS to get
repaired.replaced).  But this CODEC is recognized by all sorts of
computer OSes.  We could open up the radio's API so anyone who wanted to
could port another SDR app to run our radio (like PowerSDR, or WinRad,
or LinRad, or...  :-)

This would gives us a very competitive radio, open a new audience to
Elecraft, provide another "I gotta have it" product for our existing
customers, catapult us to the front of the line for QRP SDR, leverage
our existing designs and expertise, have low risk, we need to write ZERO
DSP code and ZERO UI code.  We just need to manage T/R switching and
enforce band limits, implement a keyer with a standard protocol (hence
the Winkey).

The case is simple: ON|OFF and a couple of LEDs on one side.  A USB
connector, expansion/accessory connector (similar to Flexwire), mic
jack, keyer jack, phones jack.

Low risk way to evaluate a lot of the technology for the KX2 and
possibly the K4 IF section (QSD/QSE, no tune BPF and LPF, Si570 Synth,
switching regulator).  We can use the foundation and add a front panel
(top panel?) section and etc. and create the KX2, or at least the
functional equivalent.  The limited DR of the TI CODEC would require
intelligent use of a preamp and multi-stage attenuator, but Alex is
clever and would manage that quite well, I think.

Leverage, leverage, leverage.

Could have it by Dayton 2011 in spite of the setbacks this summer from
component issues.

Basic 10W radio: $699 (Flex 1500 is 5W and $649)
Internal ATU: $149 (superset of T1?)
Battery pack: $129 (Li-Ion with charge controller)

If we never market it, it is a good development vehicle for the KX2 (all
but the DSP and FP). IF we do market it, it is a great product and helps
keep Flex away from an important segment of our customer base (QRP and
especially CW QRP).

?

L




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[wayne burdick]

Lyle Johnson wrote:

> I just received my FLEX-1500....

Nothing like a little intrigue for our list members :)

Sorry to burden everyone with our internal dialog. I'm sure it isn't  
news to anyone that we talk about prospective products constantly  
(doesn't everyone?).

In any case, back to our regularly-scheduled program....

73,
Wayne
N6KR




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[Bruce Beford-2]

Lyle Johnson wrote:

> I just received my FLEX-1500....

Nothing like a little intrigue for our list members :)

Gawd, I Love/Hate you guys... Keep the ideas flowing, I'll keep buying the
results.

Signed,
N1RX
Confirmed Elecraft groupie...
(we may need some kind of 12-step program...)


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[Steve Ellington]

Gosh I though someone had filed for documents under the Freedom of
Information Act. But whatever, this sounds like a good scheme. You're right
about PwrSDR being a resource hog. I had to get a dual core cpu just to run
LP Pan smoothly. And yes, Flex's QSK will never fly.
Which reminds me....Any progress on QSK mode and RIT both running at the
same time (K3)?
Steve
N4LQ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Beford" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 7:10 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] SDR with a Twist

> Lyle Johnson wrote:
>
>> I just received my FLEX-1500....
>
> Nothing like a little intrigue for our list members :)
>
> Gawd, I Love/Hate you guys... Keep the ideas flowing, I'll keep buying the
> results.
>
> Signed,
> N1RX
> Confirmed Elecraft groupie...
> (we may need some kind of 12-step program...)
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html 

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[Dan Copeland]

Lyle wrote: Low risk way to evaluate a lot of the technology for the KX2 and

possibly the K4 IF section (QSD/QSE, no tune BPF and LPF, Si570 Synth,
switching regulator


A K4 in the works....Please tell me more :-)

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[wayne burdick]

Steve Ellington wrote:

> ....Any progress on QSK mode and RIT both running at the
> same time (K3)?

Not yet. But I did the math and it looks like I can provide at least a  
few hundred Hz (+/-) of RIT in QRQ mode, or what we call "CW+".

Thanks,
Wayne
N6KR


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[Gary Gregory]

Dan wrote:
Lyle wrote: Low risk way to evaluate a lot of the technology for the KX2 and

possibly the K4 IF section (QSD/QSE, no tune BPF and LPF, Si570 Synth,
switching regulator


A K4 in the works....Please tell me more :-)
- Show quoted text -

Uh Oh....this is gonna get real interesting....now what what was that I read
about cat's and bags N stuff?

Hmmmmmmmm....

I'm gonna lay down, I feel a headache coming...:-))

Gary


On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 9:24 AM, Dan Copeland <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Lyle wrote: Low risk way to evaluate a lot of the technology for the KX2
> and
>
> possibly the K4 IF section (QSD/QSE, no tune BPF and LPF, Si570 Synth,
> switching regulator
>
>
> A K4 in the works....Please tell me more :-)
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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>

--
Gary
VK4FD - Motorhome Mobile
http://www.qsl.net/vk4fd/
K3 #679
For everything else there's Mastercard!!!
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[wayne burdick]

Dan Copeland wrote:

> Lyle wrote: Low risk way to evaluate a lot of the technology....

There are no new transceiver projects underway at this time. Lyle's  
discussion was speculative, looking at possible directions for future  
projects.

We have our hands full fleshing out the Elecraft "quadruplets":

   K3
   P3
   KPA500
   KAT500

73,
Wayne
N6KR

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[Guy, K2AV]

Few hundred hertz would do it for me just fine.

73, Guy.

On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 7:26 PM, Wayne Burdick <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Steve Ellington wrote:
>
>> ....Any progress on QSK mode and RIT both running at the
>> same time (K3)?
>
> Not yet. But I did the math and it looks like I can provide at least a
> few hundred Hz (+/-) of RIT in QRQ mode, or what we call "CW+".
>
> Thanks,
> Wayne
> N6KR
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

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[Andrew Moore-3]

> Few hundred hertz would do it for me just fine.

Ditto.
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[Jon Kåre Hellan]

On 07/23/2010 01:17 AM, Steve Ellington wrote:
> Gosh I though someone had filed for documents under the Freedom of
> Information Act. But whatever, this sounds like a good scheme. You're right
> about PwrSDR being a resource hog. I had to get a dual core cpu just to run
> LP Pan smoothly.

Can Rocky be used with LP-PAN?

Jon LA4RT

  And yes, Flex's QSK will never fly.

> Which reminds me....Any progress on QSK mode and RIT both running at the
> same time (K3)?
> Steve
> N4LQ
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bruce Beford"<[hidden email]>
> To:<[hidden email]>
> Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 7:10 PM
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] SDR with a Twist
>
>
>> Lyle Johnson wrote:
>>
>>> I just received my FLEX-1500....
>>
>> Nothing like a little intrigue for our list members :)
>>
>> Gawd, I Love/Hate you guys... Keep the ideas flowing, I'll keep buying the
>> results.
>>
>> Signed,
>> N1RX
>> Confirmed Elecraft groupie...
>> (we may need some kind of 12-step program...)
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

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[N8LP]

  Sure, it can be used with any SDR app.

Larry N8LP



On 7/23/2010 12:00 PM, [hidden email] wrote:

> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 07:51:39 +0200
> From: Jon K?re Hellan<[hidden email]>
> Subject: [Elecraft] LP-Pan and Rocky (was:  SDR with a Twist)
> To:[hidden email]
> Message-ID:<[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> On 07/23/2010 01:17 AM, Steve Ellington wrote:
>> >  Gosh I though someone had filed for documents under the Freedom of
>> >  Information Act. But whatever, this sounds like a good scheme. You're right
>> >  about PwrSDR being a resource hog. I had to get a dual core cpu just to run
>> >  LP Pan smoothly.
> Can Rocky be used with LP-PAN?
>
> Jon LA4RT

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[Leigh L. Klotz Jr WA5ZNU]

Linux users might be interested in Quisk, which runs fine with LP-PAN; I've also provided an interface to the K3 and fldigi.  It uses about 10% of the CPU on my desktop, which is a few years old.

http://wa5znu.org/2009/04/quisk-lppan-k3/

There's a Windows port in the works, but not immediately.

Leigh/WA5ZNU

[Bill W4ZV]

Steve Ellington wrote

You're right
about PwrSDR being a resource hog. I had to get a dual core cpu just to run
LP Pan smoothly.

LP-Pan is not the hog...PowerSDR is the hog (a.k.a. dog).  I much prefer CW Skimmer's waterfall and run it directly from LP-PAN without the HRD/PowerSDR garbage attached.  Using an old 1 GHz P3, I've run the N1MM/Skimmer combo in several contests over the past 2 years with no CPU overload problems.  

Skimmer's waterfall is the best I've ever used and is legal for Unassisted categories using Blind Mode.  Here are some comments from one of the world's top contesters (6 CQ WW World wins in the past 10 years):

http://lists.contesting.com/pipermail/skimmertalk/2008-November/000191.html

Note that his comments about no knobs apply only to S&P mode...not running mode.

73,  Bill

P.S.  José now uses two K3s in his SO2R setup.