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SMD-based kits

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wayne burdick

SMD-based kits

Administrator

Surface-mount (SMD) components are easy to work with, *if* you have
very steady hands, good visual acuity (aided by a magnifier), and a
very fine-tip soldering iron (etc.). I've done a lot of SMD work
myself, and can even read the labels on 0805 resistors ;) Our new
T1-FT817 interface cable has a tiny board loaded with 0402-sized
components inside a mini-DIN connector, and I built the first one by
hand. So don't get me wrong -- I think SMDs can be a lot of fun.

However, supporting SMD-based kits would be an absolute nightmare. Many
parts have cryptic labels, or none at all, notably capacitors. Keeping
track of parts as you build -- which requires a lot of discipline -- is
just the tip of the iceberg. Imagine for a moment that you're an
Elecraft customer-service tech, confronted daily by kits with hundreds
of SMDS, many of which are installed in the wrong place, not soldered
correctly, damaged due to heating, etc. Problems like this can be very
painful to troubleshoot because of the labeling problem. Already, Gary
spends most of his time finding and fixing problems with soldering and
incorrect component installation.

So, what's more likely is that we would offer small SMD-based kits that
have BIG, BOLD, UNAVOIDABLE, UN-FINE print that says, in effect, "DON'T
TRY THIS AT HOME....Unless you really want to." And unfortunately, this
necessity translates to a small market for the kits.

That said, looking into my crystal ball I can see a time when home
pick-'n'-place machines with AI-enabled vision systems become
commonplace....

73,
Wayne
N6KR

---

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Mike S-8

Re: SMD-based kits

At 05:21 PM 4/19/2005, wayne burdick wrote...
>That said, looking into my crystal ball I can see a time when home pick-'n'-place machines with AI-enabled vision systems become commonplace....

Is that a pre-announcement of a new kit? Where do I get in line?

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Van W1WCG

Re: SMD-based kits

In reply to this post by wayne burdick

And is THIS the next project from Aptos ? ? ? ;<))

73, Van W1WCG

>snip

> That said, looking into my crystal ball I can see a time when home
> pick-'n'-place machines with AI-enabled vision systems become
> commonplace....
>

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John A. Ross [Ecraft]

RE: SMD-based kits

In reply to this post by wayne burdick

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of wayne burdick
> Sent: 19 April 2005 22:21
> To: Elecraft Reflector
> Subject: [Elecraft] SMD-based kits
>
> snip <

> However, supporting SMD-based kits would be an absolute
> nightmare. Many parts have cryptic labels, or none at all,
> notably capacitors. Keeping track of parts as you build --
> which requires a lot of discipline -- is just the tip of the
> iceberg. Imagine for a moment that you're an Elecraft
> customer-service tech, confronted daily by kits with hundreds
> of SMDS, many of which are installed in the wrong place, not
> soldered correctly, damaged due to heating, etc. Problems
> like this can be very painful to troubleshoot because of the
> labeling problem. Already, Gary spends most of his time
> finding and fixing problems with soldering and incorrect
> component installation.

Wayne

You are right, misplaced, unmarked parts error tracing without a proper BON
tester and jig would be a serious pain.

But you could supply the kit with MLCC already fitted. Soldered or held by
glue dots for the customer to solder to avoid this very issue.

There is not that many other parts that would be unmarked if minimum size
was kept to 0805, could even stay with 1206 as these are quite close to the
pitch of R's used already.

Would be good for the option kits, possibly front panel & controller board
at least as the available space is at a premium.

> That said, looking into my crystal ball I can see a time when
> home pick-'n'-place machines with AI-enabled vision systems
> become commonplace....

With the amount of reasonably cheap premade XY tables/linear guides and PC
axis controllers around (some in kit form!) all that's needed is some will
power, a Z axis solution and some double sided sticky tape to hold down the
SMT parts for picking!

Still leaves the best xI around, the human eye & brain to do the inspection
job though.........

Of course with the state of electronics manufacturing today, if your garage
is big enough, I have seen small footprint SMT placers go for next to
nothing at auction.

John

(Serious lover of all things SMT... :-) )

>
> 73,
> Wayne
> N6KR
>
>
> ---
>
> http://www.elecraft.com
>
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Sandy W5TVW

Re: SMD-based kits

I'll leave the "SMD stuff" to you younger guys with better eyesight than mine!

Having been an 'in the field' electronics tech (and part time engineer!)
for YEARS, in the avionics and marine electronics field, I have dropped my share of
parts
on the floor! I can agree with Wayne on these teensy pieces being UNMARKED
(curse you bastards in the component fabrication business!), or marked with some
silly
code or "house number", I don't intend looking for the inevidible dropped part!
I have gotten more "fumbly" with age and have trouble keeping up with small parts
and hardware now.
Have had some fun building the K1 and an extra board for it. "IDing" those pieces
CAN
be confusing even with the "micro printing" on them. Unmarked SMD's would be out of
the
question! I can imagine it would be a nightmare for Wayne's techs trying to sort a
returned
kit out with misplaced parts!
I'll take my "SMD's" mounted already..thank you!
73,

Sandy W5TVW
----- Original Message -----
From: "John A. Ross[RSDTV]" <[hidden email]>
To: "'wayne burdick'" <[hidden email]>; "'Elecraft Reflector'"
<[hidden email]>
Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 5:39 PM
Subject: RE: [Elecraft] SMD-based kits

| > -----Original Message-----
| > From: [hidden email]
| > [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of wayne burdick
| > Sent: 19 April 2005 22:21
| > To: Elecraft Reflector
| > Subject: [Elecraft] SMD-based kits
| >
| > snip <
|
| > However, supporting SMD-based kits would be an absolute
| > nightmare. Many parts have cryptic labels, or none at all,
| > notably capacitors. Keeping track of parts as you build --
| > which requires a lot of discipline -- is just the tip of the
| > iceberg. Imagine for a moment that you're an Elecraft
| > customer-service tech, confronted daily by kits with hundreds
| > of SMDS, many of which are installed in the wrong place, not
| > soldered correctly, damaged due to heating, etc. Problems
| > like this can be very painful to troubleshoot because of the
| > labeling problem. Already, Gary spends most of his time
| > finding and fixing problems with soldering and incorrect
| > component installation.
|
| Wayne
|
| You are right, misplaced, unmarked parts error tracing without a proper BON
| tester and jig would be a serious pain.
|
| But you could supply the kit with MLCC already fitted. Soldered or held by
| glue dots for the customer to solder to avoid this very issue.
|
| There is not that many other parts that would be unmarked if minimum size
| was kept to 0805, could even stay with 1206 as these are quite close to the
| pitch of R's used already.
|
| Would be good for the option kits, possibly front panel & controller board
| at least as the available space is at a premium.
|
| > That said, looking into my crystal ball I can see a time when
| > home pick-'n'-place machines with AI-enabled vision systems
| > become commonplace....
|
| With the amount of reasonably cheap premade XY tables/linear guides and PC
| axis controllers around (some in kit form!) all that's needed is some will
| power, a Z axis solution and some double sided sticky tape to hold down the
| SMT parts for picking!
|
| Still leaves the best xI around, the human eye & brain to do the inspection
| job though.........
|
| Of course with the state of electronics manufacturing today, if your garage
| is big enough, I have seen small footprint SMT placers go for next to
| nothing at auction.
|
| John
|
| (Serious lover of all things SMT... :-) )
|
|
| >
| > 73,
| > Wayne
| > N6KR
| >
| >
| > ---
| >
| > http://www.elecraft.com
| >
| > _______________________________________________
| > Elecraft mailing list
| > Post to: [hidden email]
| > You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
| > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
| > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
| >
| > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
| > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
| >
|
| _______________________________________________
| Elecraft mailing list
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|
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| Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
|

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johnny-52

Re: SMD-based kits

Hi OM,

Shall we back to basic? One of the advantages of kits from Elecraft is
'without' SMD stuff for the 'normal' skill builders. I consider myself is a
'normal' skill builders though I can handle SMD. Without SMD, most of
elecraft kits can be handled by simple and easily avaliable tools.

Falling SMD stuff on the floor is always a nightmare. I have to ask my two
kids to look for me because they have better eye sight. It will be up to
Elecraft to decide whether there are SMD based kits. However, non-SMD kits
should always be provided as an alternative from marketing / maintenance
point of views.

It is my 2 cents opinion.

72/73

Johnny Siu
builder of s/n 1146, 3837, 4165, 4255, 4597

----- Original Message -----
From: "Sandy" <[hidden email]>
To: "John A. Ross[RSDTV]" <[hidden email]>; "'wayne burdick'"
<[hidden email]>; "'Elecraft Reflector'" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 7:35 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] SMD-based kits

> I'll leave the "SMD stuff" to you younger guys with better eyesight than
> mine!
>
> Having been an 'in the field' electronics tech (and part time engineer!)
> for YEARS, in the avionics and marine electronics field, I have dropped my
> share of
> parts
> on the floor! I can agree with Wayne on these teensy pieces being
> UNMARKED
> (curse you bastards in the component fabrication business!), or marked
> with some
> silly
> code or "house number", I don't intend looking for the inevidible dropped
> part!
> I have gotten more "fumbly" with age and have trouble keeping up with
> small parts
> and hardware now.
> Have had some fun building the K1 and an extra board for it. "IDing"
> those pieces
> CAN
> be confusing even with the "micro printing" on them. Unmarked SMD's would
> be out of
> the
> question! I can imagine it would be a nightmare for Wayne's techs trying
> to sort a
> returned
> kit out with misplaced parts!
> I'll take my "SMD's" mounted already..thank you!
> 73,
>
> Sandy W5TVW
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John A. Ross[RSDTV]" <[hidden email]>
> To: "'wayne burdick'" <[hidden email]>; "'Elecraft Reflector'"
> <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 5:39 PM
> Subject: RE: [Elecraft] SMD-based kits
>
>
> | > -----Original Message-----
> | > From: [hidden email]
> | > [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of wayne burdick
> | > Sent: 19 April 2005 22:21
> | > To: Elecraft Reflector
> | > Subject: [Elecraft] SMD-based kits
> | >
> | > snip <
> |
> | > However, supporting SMD-based kits would be an absolute
> | > nightmare. Many parts have cryptic labels, or none at all,
> | > notably capacitors. Keeping track of parts as you build --
> | > which requires a lot of discipline -- is just the tip of the
> | > iceberg. Imagine for a moment that you're an Elecraft
> | > customer-service tech, confronted daily by kits with hundreds
> | > of SMDS, many of which are installed in the wrong place, not
> | > soldered correctly, damaged due to heating, etc. Problems
> | > like this can be very painful to troubleshoot because of the
> | > labeling problem. Already, Gary spends most of his time
> | > finding and fixing problems with soldering and incorrect
> | > component installation.
> |
> | Wayne
> |
> | You are right, misplaced, unmarked parts error tracing without a proper
> BON
> | tester and jig would be a serious pain.
> |
> | But you could supply the kit with MLCC already fitted. Soldered or held
> by
> | glue dots for the customer to solder to avoid this very issue.
> |
> | There is not that many other parts that would be unmarked if minimum
> size
> | was kept to 0805, could even stay with 1206 as these are quite close to
> the
> | pitch of R's used already.
> |
> | Would be good for the option kits, possibly front panel & controller
> board
> | at least as the available space is at a premium.
> |
> | > That said, looking into my crystal ball I can see a time when
> | > home pick-'n'-place machines with AI-enabled vision systems
> | > become commonplace....
> |
> | With the amount of reasonably cheap premade XY tables/linear guides and
> PC
> | axis controllers around (some in kit form!) all that's needed is some
> will
> | power, a Z axis solution and some double sided sticky tape to hold down
> the
> | SMT parts for picking!
> |
> | Still leaves the best xI around, the human eye & brain to do the
> inspection
> | job though.........
> |
> | Of course with the state of electronics manufacturing today, if your
> garage
> | is big enough, I have seen small footprint SMT placers go for next to
> | nothing at auction.
> |
> | John
> |
> | (Serious lover of all things SMT... :-) )
> |
> |
> | >
> | > 73,
> | > Wayne
> | > N6KR
> | >
> |

al_lorona

RE: SMD-based kits

In reply to this post by wayne burdick

Hi, Everybody,

I have been saying essentially what Wayne has said here for quite some time: that as we head into the age of surface mount that has the potential to kill kit-building and also kill the tradition of hams working on their own gear. I have discussed this at length with my Dad and we are for example both keeping our Ten Tec Omni VI's forever, simply because it is one of the last of the leaded component-built rigs and has a greater chance of being maintained by us for a very long time. (The K2, obviously, falls into the same category.) None of us is getting any younger and as our eyes age and our hands get ever shakier, we will less and less be able to work on our own surface mount rigs. It is rather sad.

You hear of unbuilt Heathkit kits all the time; they appear at online auctions and such and command incredibly high prices for the nostalgic value. I can foresee the day when unbuilt Elecrafts will command similarly gigantic prices, but for a different reason: that they likely will be the only kits left on planet Earth. Everything else will have died out as it went SMD.

Already, we see certain electronic components disappearing. How long before it's impossible to find, say, a resistor with leads? Capacitors? Inductors? DIP package integrated circuits? A 2N2222?

We should all buy a spare K2 and put it in our attics. It may enable us to hasten our retirements a few years!

Seriously, I don't know what the answer is. There is a middle ground that has already been demonstrated with for example the KDSP2, where the really tough SMD stuff that would be impossible for most of us to construct is pre-assembled. That should hold us for a while, right?

Regards,

Al W6LX

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EricJ-2

RE: SMD-based kits

I think that might hasten Wayne and Eric's retirement!!

Eric
KE6US

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of [hidden email]

We should all buy a spare K2 and put it in our attics. It may enable us to
hasten our retirements a few years!

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wayne burdick

Re: SMD-based kits and retirement [not!]

Administrator

Retire? Surely you jest. We're both in our forties. By the time we'd
want to retire, the retirement age would be in triple digits and social
security won't be secure or sociable. We'll just keep designing cool
stuff, and take our walkers to meetings. (Remember: old engineers never
die; they just lose their scope.)

Don't worry -- leaded parts aren't going away anytime soon. We still
have access to every part we designed into the K2 over five years ago.
We'll pre-install SMD replacements in future kits should that become
necessary. If SMDs start to dominate, we'll up-level the kits so that
the builder is still working with small units: individual modules that
are small PCBs with some or all SMDs. The way to think of them is as
the next level of "integrated circuit." No one complains about parts on
a chip.

Bottom line: the kit experience isn't going away in our lifetime,
whether or not everyone buys a second K2 ;)

73,
Wayne
N6KR

On Apr 19, 2005, at 8:40 PM, EricJ wrote:

> I think that might hasten Wayne and Eric's retirement!!
>
> Eric
> KE6US
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
> [hidden email]
>
>
> We should all buy a spare K2 and put it in our attics. It may enable
> us to
> hasten our retirements a few years!

---

http://www.elecraft.com

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g4ilo-2

Re: SMD-based kits

In reply to this post by wayne burdick

Personally I'd like to see things go in the other direction, and have
kits using tubes. It's nostalgia I suppose, but who says radios have to
be state of the art?.

When I was young I used to drool over Heathkit catalogs, but I could
never afford to buy the kits in those days. But some of my earliest
radios were tube-based, and there is something intrinsically satisfying
about a big, solid radio made with vacuum tubes, that today's tiny
microprocessor based solid state radios just can't hope to emulate.
Plus, they would be easier to build for those of us whose eyes are less
sharp and hands less steady...

The only thing that stops me building the only avaliable tube-based
radio kit, an HF linear, apart from the price, is the havoc that running
that amount of power would cause with my indoor antennas.

73,
--
Julian, G4ILO
G4ILO's Shack: http://www.tech-pro.net/g4ilo

"JS" <[hidden email]> wrote:

Shall we back to basic? One of the advantages of kits from Elecraft is
'without' SMD stuff for the 'normal' skill builders. I consider myself
is a 'normal' skill builders though I can handle SMD. Without SMD, most
of elecraft kits can be handled by simple and easily avaliable tools.

[snip]

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G3VVT

Re: Re: SMD-based kits and retirement [not!]

In reply to this post by wayne burdick

In a message dated 20/04/05 06:06:43 GMT Daylight Time, [hidden email]
writes:

Don't worry -- leaded parts aren't going away anytime soon. We still
have access to every part we designed into the K2 over five years ago.

Reply: -----------------------------------------------------

Leaded parts may not go away, but may be increasingly difficult to obtain.
Some types of IC are a case in point where the DIL type are getting very
difficult to source and new types of devices are only available as SMD. There is a
way around this in adapting a similar SMD IC with a DIL header adaptor, but
this would become impractical if the number involved get too great. All
volume manufacturers of equipment seem to be changed over to using SMD which can
only hasten the decline. Have been involved recently with sourcing some CTCSS
decoders for home constructed repeater logic systems. Very little is now
available in DIL format as the radio manufacturers have only only used SMD for
quite a long period. What is little still available in DIL commands quite a
hefty price premium compared to the SMD type.

More worrying if the information turns out to be correct is that Toko are
reported in the UK PW radio magazine for May 2005 to be ceasing manufacture of
through hole PCB type transformers and concentrating on surface mounted
types. Unless another source is found of these components, this could make home
construction though not impossible, a great deal more difficult.

Bob, G3VVT
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Mike Morrow-3

Re: Re: SMD-based kits and retirement [not!]

In reply to this post by wayne burdick

Wayne wrote:

>We'll pre-install SMD replacements in future kits should that become
>necessary. If SMDs start to dominate, we'll up-level the kits so that
>the builder is still working with small units: individual modules that
>are small PCBs with some or all SMDs.

That's the ideal solution, IMHO.

I'd love to see a K1 or KX1 type rig with nearly all SMD componets...as long as *all* of these SMD components were completely pre-installed on the PCB. Kit parts inventory would be easier, opportunity for builder error would be greatly reduced, most importantly the kit could be completed much more quickly, etc. The builder would still get familiar with the circuit design and get to align the unit (i.e., all the higher-level skills part of the kit-building experience would still be present).

The use on pre-mounted SMD components is the one outstanding design feature of MFJ's otherwise unremarkable Cub series of QRP rigs. It would be great to see something similar in an Elecraft rig, even before the scarcity of through-hole components forces it. I'd buy one, whether I needed it or not.

73,
Mike / KK5F

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Rajiv Dewan, N2RD

Re: Re: SMD-based kits and retirement [not!]

I built a couple of Elecraft transverters which use a mix of SMD and
conventional parts. They came with the SMD components soldered in.
For higher frequencies, some parts like chip capacitors are in fact
better because they has less stray/component inductance.

Yes, SMD are daunting but they can be done at home. There are plenty
of advantages:
- newer ics, and other devices, better designs
- much much smaller finished products, a real plus for portable QRP gear

The other are ways of mitigating the problems with size:
1. Throw in a few extra capacitors/resistors. This will only increase
the cost by a buck or two and take the anxiety away.
2. Solder in the really fine pitch parts.
3. Change/reeducate the homebrewers to install parts by
variety/type/value rather than component number.

I have built a number of SMD / part SMD based projects (dsp10, iq-vfo,
AA908) and actually find installing some parts, like 1206 resistors
easier and faster with SMD rather than the leaded parts.

Raj

--
Rajiv Dewan, N2RD
[hidden email]
FN13fc

--
On Apr 20, 2005, at 9:45 AM, Mike Morrow wrote:

> Wayne wrote:
>
>> We'll pre-install SMD replacements in future kits should that become
>> necessary. If SMDs start to dominate, we'll up-level the kits so that
>> the builder is still working with small units: individual modules that
>> are small PCBs with some or all SMDs.
>
> That's the ideal solution, IMHO.
>
> I'd love to see a K1 or KX1 type rig with nearly all SMD
> componets...as long as *all* of these SMD components were completely
> pre-installed on the PCB. Kit parts inventory would be easier,
> opportunity for builder error would be greatly reduced, most
> importantly the kit could be completed much more quickly, etc. The
> builder would still get familiar with the circuit design and get to
> align the unit (i.e., all the higher-level skills part of the
> kit-building experience would still be present).
>
> The use on pre-mounted SMD components is the one outstanding design
> feature of MFJ's otherwise unremarkable Cub series of QRP rigs. It
> would be great to see something similar in an Elecraft rig, even
> before the scarcity of through-hole components forces it. I'd buy
> one, whether I needed it or not.
>
> 73,
> Mike / KK5F
>
>
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Don Brown-4

Re: SMD-based kits

In reply to this post by wayne burdick

Hi

I remember a time when PC boards were just becoming popular and the cry was
"how are you going to work on that stuff" The same with first transistors,
and then IC's. As the technology changes the building and troubleshooting
techniques will follow. It may look difficult now because we are not as
familiar SMD parts as through hole. I really would not want to build
something like a hand wired chassis with 10 or 12 tubes and no PC boards
(although I have done it). Some day we all may look back at building a
through hole kit with all the lead bending, flush cutting and flipping the
board over to solder the part and wonder how we did it and say "I would not
want to do THAT any more."

Don Brown
KD5NDB

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N8LP

Re: SMD-based kits

Don't knock tubes. My first kit was a Harmon Kardon stereo amplifier
with lots of tubes and no PC baord. It was great fun. I also built
Dynakits and Heathkits with tubes. There's nothing like the smell and
glow of vacuum tubes to warm your heart.

Now I build lots of gear with SMD parts, and I can say that almost all
the good chips are SMD now. Increasingly, staying with thru-hole parts
not only costs more, it limits performance. I have no problem with SOIC
parts, but the more popular SSOP and TSSOP parts are almost impossible
to deal with unless you use some trick like a toaster oven to install
the parts prior to other assembly.

I think Elecraft would do well to pre-install SMD parts whenever
performance would be enhanced. I know it is an inventory problem in
terms of having a bunch of pre-assembled partial boards sitting on the
shelf, but it gives much more flexibility in terms of circuit design and
performance, and probably doesn't cost any more when you take into
account the cheaper SMD parts cost.

Larry N8LP

Don Brown wrote:

>Hi
>
>I remember a time when PC boards were just becoming popular and the cry was
>"how are you going to work on that stuff" The same with first transistors,
>and then IC's. As the technology changes the building and troubleshooting
>techniques will follow. It may look difficult now because we are not as
>familiar SMD parts as through hole. I really would not want to build
>something like a hand wired chassis with 10 or 12 tubes and no PC boards
>(although I have done it). Some day we all may look back at building a
>through hole kit with all the lead bending, flush cutting and flipping the
>board over to solder the part and wonder how we did it and say "I would not
>want to do THAT any more."
>
>Don Brown
>KD5NDB
>
>
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>Elecraft mailing list
>Post to: [hidden email]
>You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
>Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
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>Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
>Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
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>
>
>

EricJ-2

RE: SMD-based kits

Toaster oven? My 19 year old son and I live alone. As a result there are a
lot of strange melted substances draped over the heating coils in our
toaster oven, but solder isn't one of them. Yet...are you serious or is
"toaster oven" a slang word for some expensive SMD assembly equipment?

Eric
KE6US

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Larry Phipps

I have no problem with SOIC parts, but the more popular SSOP and TSSOP parts
are almost impossible to deal with unless you use some trick like a toaster
oven to install the parts prior to other assembly.
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N8LP

Re: SMD-based kits

Here's one link explaining it, there are others... do a Google search
for more.

http://www.beloev.net/gbvio.html

Larry N8LP

EricJ wrote:

Don Brown-4

Re: SMD-based kits

In reply to this post by N8LP

Hi

Not knocking tubes! In fact there are still some new audio gear around that
have tubes. Some people think they sound better and musicians say they have
a warmer sound (or is it just because the room is warmer). I also built
several tube kits. I worked on many a tube stereo or TV in the mid 60's. I
also worked as a lead tech for Tektronix for 5 or so years where I worked on
many 500 series scopes with 30-40 tubes although my specialty was the 7000
series scopes. I was just saying I would rather not build any more hand
wired tube type kits unless there is no other option (a high power
transmitter for instance).

Don Brown

KD5NDB

----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Phipps" <[hidden email]>
To: "Don Brown" <[hidden email]>
Cc: "Elecraft Reflector" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 11:34 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] SMD-based kits

>
> Don't knock tubes. My first kit was a Harmon Kardon stereo amplifier
> with lots of tubes and no PC baord. It was great fun. I also built
> Dynakits and Heathkits with tubes. There's nothing like the smell and
> glow of vacuum tubes to warm your heart.
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Ron D'Eau Claire-2

Vacuum-tube Projects (WAS: SMD-based kits)

In reply to this post by N8LP

Larry, N8LP, wrote:

Don't knock tubes. My first kit was a Harmon Kardon stereo amplifier
with lots of tubes and no PC baord. It was great fun. I also built
Dynakits and Heathkits with tubes. There's nothing like the smell and
glow of vacuum tubes to warm your heart.

-------------------------

I find something special about working with vacuum tubes as well, but then I
was "raised" on vacuum tubes. Still, I've met some newer Hams who want to
mess with tubes in at least a simple unit of some sort.

A friend who really wanted to play with tubes and learn a little more about
how receivers work inspired me to create a little hybrid superhet receiver
that was described in a construction project in the November 2003 QST. It
uses three tubes that were designed to operate at no more than 12 volts
instead of the usual several hundred volts. I heard from about a dozen
people who built them. It's gratifying that the interest is still there and
that people enjoyed tackling the project.

If tubes interest you, there are a number of e-mail lists for such
enthusiasts who build gear from scratch and who restore old gear. One place
to look is the Glowbugs, a mailing list for vacuum tube Ham enthusiasts. To
subscribe to the Glowbugs E-Mail Reflector, send mail to:
[hidden email] with the following command in the body
of your email message:

subscribe glowbugs youremailaddresshere

The list runs on space on a server donated by the University of Idaho in the
USA and is managed by Conard Murray WS4S ([hidden email]).

You'll run into several names and calls familiar around here, including mine
<G>.

One thing that concerns me about encouraging ops familiar with solid state
to work with tubes is that most tubes operate with lethal voltages where
there's only +12V in our Elecraft rigs. Not that low voltages can't do real
harm, especially with a heavy-duty power supply. I've known technicians
missing ring fingers because they carelessly poked around inside a live unit
and let the ring touch a ground and a live, high-current 12 or 24 volt power
buss at the same time. Still, high voltage demands a different sort of care
and different procedures around equipment to be safe. Some of the most
famous Hams of all time and far too many ordinary operators of my generation
and before ended their lives with one careless move around the high voltages
in their Ham rigs.

One can be safe around high voltages, but it as different as climbing a fake
rock face at the local sporting goods center and climbing El Capitan at
Yosemite park. Out in the "real world" mistakes are much more dangerous.
That was specifically why the little project I created for QST used the
special low-voltage tubes.

Ron AC7AC

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stephen Farthing

Re: SMD-based kits

In reply to this post by EricJ-2

Gentlefolk,
Surface Mount is not that difficult even for old geezers
like me with less than perfect eyesight. NORCAL did an SM kit as an
introduction to the topic and I made that and it worked pretty well. I am
half way through building a 23cm transverter kit from Kuhn Electronics
which is all Surface Mount.Whilst the itsy bitsy components take some
getting use to, a magnifier, a toothpick (for holding components down), a
set of tweezers and a soldering iron with a tiny bit are all thats required
(use a scrap motherboard, remove some somponents and resolder them). And a
clean work surface. As usual practice makes perfect...and it helps a lot if
the pcb is not too dense...

In some respects SM components are easier to work with than leaded ones. No
need to drill the PCB...lots of new components which dont have leaded
versions...as you colonials say,,,its not a problem, its a challenge...and
in years to come i think that there may not be any leaded components
produced...so we will have to adapt, as hams always have, to use new
technologies...

Just my 50p s worth...

Steve

----- Original Message -----
From: "EricJ" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>; "'Don Brown'" <[hidden email]>
Cc: "'Elecraft Reflector'" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 6:22 PM
Subject: RE: [Elecraft] SMD-based kits

> Toaster oven? My 19 year old son and I live alone. As a result there are a
> lot of strange melted substances draped over the heating coils in our
> toaster oven, but solder isn't one of them. Yet...are you serious or is
> "toaster oven" a slang word for some expensive SMD assembly equipment?
>
> Eric
> KE6US
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Larry Phipps
>
> I have no problem with SOIC parts, but the more popular SSOP and TSSOP
> parts
> are almost impossible to deal with unless you use some trick like a
> toaster
> oven to install the parts prior to other assembly.
> _______________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Post to: [hidden email]
> You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
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> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
>
>
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