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roncasa

SSB QRP

many thanks to all who responded ....

I am trying to sway my local club to do QRP this year and wasn't sure
abt SSB.

I know CW is a given .....
(I also wanted to explore SSB myself)

It's difficult when everyone knows I do only CW (smile).

Many thanks to all for sharing their experiences, knowledge and tips.
This is what makes ham radio a fraternity!

72
Ron, wb1hga
"QRP, when u care to send the very least"
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roncasa

Re: SSB QRP

On 04/18/2012 01:42 PM, ron wrote:
> many thanks to all who responded ....
>
> I am trying to sway my local club to do QRP this year and wasn't sure
> abt SSB.

oops! I should have included the words: Field Day.
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Don Wilhelm-4

Re: SSB QRP

Ron,

I have done Field Day QRP SSB, and I can tell you that it is quite a
challenge. QRP CW can do quite nicely with both the QRP and CW
multipliers, but your signal must be above the noise level at the
receiving end to be heard. With typical Field Day antennas and often
high noise levels created by generator noise, SSB at 5 watts is
difficult indeed.

If you want to try it, I would strongly recommend a beam antenna to give
you a signal boost.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 4/18/2012 1:45 PM, ron wrote:

> On 04/18/2012 01:42 PM, ron wrote:
>> many thanks to all who responded ....
>>
>> I am trying to sway my local club to do QRP this year and wasn't sure
>> abt SSB.
>
> oops! I should have included the words: Field Day.
> ______________________________________________________________
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David Gilbert

Re: SSB QRP

I've done LOTS of Field Day using QRP over the years, and in my opinion
CW is the only way to go. The QRM on SSB is horrendous and the average
Field Day operator is not going to be very good at picking you out of
the mud. With CW they can use narrow filters and greatly improve their
copy. But another key factor is that you get twice the points for a CW
contact as you do for a SSB contact. Check out past scores and you'll
typically find that the folks using SSB exclusively are toward the
bottom of the stack.

More QSOs and more points per QSO makes CW a no-brainer if you have the
choice (i.e., CW ops).

73,
Dave AB7E

On 4/18/2012 11:00 AM, Don Wilhelm wrote:

> Ron,
>
> I have done Field Day QRP SSB, and I can tell you that it is quite a
> challenge. QRP CW can do quite nicely with both the QRP and CW
> multipliers, but your signal must be above the noise level at the
> receiving end to be heard. With typical Field Day antennas and often
> high noise levels created by generator noise, SSB at 5 watts is
> difficult indeed.
>
> If you want to try it, I would strongly recommend a beam antenna to give
> you a signal boost.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 4/18/2012 1:45 PM, ron wrote:
>> On 04/18/2012 01:42 PM, ron wrote:
>>> many thanks to all who responded ....
>>>
>>> I am trying to sway my local club to do QRP this year and wasn't sure
>>> abt SSB.
>> oops! I should have included the words: Field Day.
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
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Gary D Krause

Re: SSB QRP

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-4

NO! NO! NO! NO! NO!!! That totally goes against the spirit of QRP operating,
in my opinion. ;-)

I work mostly CW QRP but, I do work SSB QRP once in a while and it's a blast.
I generally start with the QRP calling frequencies. As far as antennas, I
use a home brewed vertical and home brewed magnetic loop antennas. I don't
have supports like towers, poles or trees in my yard. My K3 is a 10w version
and my K2 has the 100 watt amp but, it sits on the shelf now. I rarely ever
used it. What was I thinking? I guess I just wanted something else to build.
:)

Gary, N7HTS

>
> If you want to try it, I would strongly recommend a beam antenna to give
> you a signal boost.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 4/18/2012 1:45 PM, ron wrote:
>> On 04/18/2012 01:42 PM, ron wrote:
>>> many thanks to all who responded ....
>>>
>>> I am trying to sway my local club to do QRP this year and wasn't sure
>>> abt SSB.
>>
>> oops! I should have included the words: Field Day.
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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EMD

Re: SSB QRP

In reply to this post by roncasa

Hello Ron,

Here's my two cents. I have been using a K2 at 10 watts. I know that's just a bit above QRP technically but I have had some great results. I'm using a long wire antenna so far and getting ready to hang the new G5RV when I get home, but depending on conditions I have been able to reach eastern Europe from my central east coast QTH. Although it was really at the extreme edge of my limited capabilities I was able to exchange enough information, callsign, QTH, weather and such to log a QSO. I also reach Texas and Florida easily and even the Virgin Islands. Although I spend a lot of time listening because the guys with higher power and better antennas run over my weaker signal I would say try it you just might be surprised at your results.

73's
Ed K3ENV

Milt -- N5IA

Re: SSB QRP

In reply to this post by Gary D Krause

> On 04/18/2012 01:42 PM, ron wrote:
> many thanks to all who responded ....

> I am trying to sway my local club to do QRP this year and wasn't sure
> abt SSB.

> oops! I should have included the words: Field Day.

Ron,

Here are some stats from our local club, EAARS, operating QRP, solar
powered, Field Day in the mountains of southeastern AZ. As you can see, QRP
works VERY well if you are in a good location with good antennas. Good
operators using good equipment also adds to the possibility of success.
YMMV.

de Milt, N5IA

YEAR-CALLSIGN-LOCATION-CATEGORY-CW Qs-SSB Qs-N/T Qs or GOTA Qs-TOTAL
QS-BONUS-SCORE-PLACE

2000 K7EAR Clark Pk. 2A QRP 711 408 232 1,351 700 11,010 #2 national in 2A
#26 national, all classes

2001 K7EAR Clark Pk. 2A QRP 770 1,180 149 2,099 1,200 15,550 #2 national in
2A #8 national, all classes

2002 K7EAR Table Top 3A QRP 741 332 56-PSK 31 1,129 1,400 10,880 #5 national
in 3A #19 national, all classes

2003 K7EAR Clark Pk. 3A QRP 749 708 52 1,509 1,300 12,705 #2 national in 3A
#9 national, all classes

2004 K7EAR Clark Pk. 3A QRP 197 316 513 1,100 4,650 8 hrs., FIRE shortened

2005 K7EAR Clark Pk. 3A QRP 1,193 822 67 2,082 1,490 17,865 #1 national, 3A
#6 national, all classes

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Pete Smith N4ZR

Re: SSB QRP

In reply to this post by Gary D Krause

Am I missing something here? If a club goes out to do FD, the objective
is to have fun and to learn about the challenges and rewards of
operating in the field. If a club wants to go QRP, but still wants the
benefits of directive antennas, who's to say that this violates the
spirit of QRP operating? Won't more QSOs, and the experience of putting
up something more than wires, add up to more fun and more preparedness?
The spirit of QRP operating is not to be weak.

73, Pete N4ZR
The World Contest Station Database, updated daily at www.conteststations.com
The Reverse Beacon Network at http://reversebeacon.net, blog at reversebeacon.blogspot.com,
spots at telnet.reversebeacon.net, port 7000 and
arcluster.reversebeacon.net, port 7000

On 4/18/2012 2:50 PM, Gary D Krause wrote:

> NO! NO! NO! NO! NO!!! That totally goes against the spirit of QRP operating,
> in my opinion. ;-)
>
> I work mostly CW QRP but, I do work SSB QRP once in a while and it's a blast.
> I generally start with the QRP calling frequencies. As far as antennas, I
> use a home brewed vertical and home brewed magnetic loop antennas. I don't
> have supports like towers, poles or trees in my yard. My K3 is a 10w version
> and my K2 has the 100 watt amp but, it sits on the shelf now. I rarely ever
> used it. What was I thinking? I guess I just wanted something else to build.
> :)
>
> Gary, N7HTS
>
>
>
>> If you want to try it, I would strongly recommend a beam antenna to give
>> you a signal boost.
>>
>> 73,
>> Don W3FPR
>>
>> On 4/18/2012 1:45 PM, ron wrote:
>>> On 04/18/2012 01:42 PM, ron wrote:
>>>> many thanks to all who responded ....
>>>>
>>>> I am trying to sway my local club to do QRP this year and wasn't sure
>>>> abt SSB.
>>> oops! I should have included the words: Field Day.
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
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> ______________________________________________________________
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Gary D Krause

Re: SSB QRP

Pete, I was just joking hence the wink at the end of the sentence. But, to
answer your question, no. Making more QSOs by putting up beams and towers
would not be more fun for me. I'm just talking about me, not everyone else.
I wouldn't find it as challenging therefore, not as much fun.

A few months ago, I worked Europe with 3 watts and a mag loop antenna three
feet off the ground. I was way more excited about that than if I had worked
him with 100 watts or more and a beam antenna. To each his own.

"Who's to say that this violates the spirit of QRP operating?" I did.
;-)(wink) It's a personal choice. I work QRP stations all of the time that
use beams. I have fun and they have fun. Really, there is no issue here at
all. I was just trying to be light hearted.

On Wed, 18 Apr 2012 16:07:14 -0400
Pete Smith N4ZR <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Am I missing something here? If a club goes out to do FD, the objective
> is to have fun and to learn about the challenges and rewards of
> operating in the field. If a club wants to go QRP, but still wants the
> benefits of directive antennas, who's to say that this violates the
> spirit of QRP operating? Won't more QSOs, and the experience of putting
> up something more than wires, add up to more fun and more preparedness?
> The spirit of QRP operating is not to be weak.
>
> 73, Pete N4ZR
> The World Contest Station Database, updated daily at www.conteststations.com
> The Reverse Beacon Network at http://reversebeacon.net, blog at
>reversebeacon.blogspot.com,
> spots at telnet.reversebeacon.net, port 7000 and
> arcluster.reversebeacon.net, port 7000
>
>
> On 4/18/2012 2:50 PM, Gary D Krause wrote:
>> NO! NO! NO! NO! NO!!! That totally goes against the spirit of QRP
>>operating,
>> in my opinion. ;-)
>>
>> I work mostly CW QRP but, I do work SSB QRP once in a while and it's a
>>blast.
>> I generally start with the QRP calling frequencies. As far as antennas, I
>> use a home brewed vertical and home brewed magnetic loop antennas. I don't
>> have supports like towers, poles or trees in my yard. My K3 is a 10w
>>version
>> and my K2 has the 100 watt amp but, it sits on the shelf now. I rarely ever
>> used it. What was I thinking? I guess I just wanted something else to
>>build.
>> :)
>>
>> Gary, N7HTS
>>
>>
>>
>>> If you want to try it, I would strongly recommend a beam antenna to give
>>> you a signal boost.
>>>
>>> 73,
>>> Don W3FPR
>>>
>>> On 4/18/2012 1:45 PM, ron wrote:
>>>> On 04/18/2012 01:42 PM, ron wrote:
>>>>> many thanks to all who responded ....
>>>>>
>>>>> I am trying to sway my local club to do QRP this year and wasn't sure
>>>>> abt SSB.
>>>> oops! I should have included the words: Field Day.
>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>>
>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>>>
>>> ______________________________________________________________
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>> ______________________________________________________________
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Jessie Oberreuter-2

QRP FD (was Re: SSB QRP)

In reply to this post by David Gilbert

We used to run FD at 100w. Half a dozen years back, I talked the
group into trying a QRP FD, and we had mixed results. We switched back
and forth a few times, and ultimately found that our scores didn't change,
but, in general, we enjoyed the QRP FDs more -- especially once we added
PSK31. IMHO, operating FD QRP is actually a lot more fun b/c it's easier
to set up and tear down, easier to avoid QRMing your own operators, and,
if you traditionally use generators, it's also much quieter. Your
contacts are worth more, and we get a kick out of operating simple radios.
If you're considering a QRP FD, here are some further points and
suggestions for your club's consideration:

* Running QRP is a great way to reduce the QRM from your own
operators :).

* The solar contacts are great bonuses, and those of us with low
power radios often find ourselves running solar for most of the day. We
have a separate set of power plugs for solar, so anyone who wants to run
it can, and we try to each make at least five rather than just making five
as a group.

* We try to collectively earn a WAS. Not only does this create a
group goal (rather than competing for most contacts), it also gives folks
an incentive to move on from hard to make contacts and seek out other
contact opportunities.

* Bring outboard filters if you have 'em -- they can really make a
difference. Try different antenna directions and orientations -- it can
make a huge difference in background noise. Use of separate tx and rx
antennas can also offer a huge improvement in noise reduction, and adding
support for split tx/rx to your field radios can be a great club project!
Folks often think that a clear, but relatively quiet station won't hear a
QRP signal. Don't be so sure! It's S/N, not power, that makes the
difference :). The more stations you can hear, the more stations you can
potentially work!

* Don't forget the digital modes! PSK31 has been serving us well.
Don't forget VHF! A 6m opening can be a life changing experience! Don't
forget local contacts on 80m. You don't need to have a huge antenna and
you don't need to fight the QRN -- just make occasional passes to collect
locals. Also remember that VHF isn't just 2m FM and a mag-mount. If you
have a 6m or 2m SSB radio to spare, bring it, and scare up a beam or make
a simple quad -- your tech who would otherwise be trying to scrape up a
dozen 2m FM contacts with an HT will love you! Remember: horizontal
polarization!

* Be willing to work different bands. Some folks have pet bands that
they just won't leave even when they're not having much success. We've
also had folks actively avoid 20m SSB because it just seems like too much
of a bedlam. Again, good filters, directional antennas, and the RF Gain
knob can make a huge difference!

* Mentor less experienced ops -- a few simple practices can go a LONG
way towards making contacts more successful. Sometimes it's knowing how to
exchange numbers in other ways than just repeating 3A 3A (eg "one, two,
three alpha"), how to use attenuation, how to note when a station is clear
but too busy to hear you, move on, and try again later. These are great
points of education for members who may have never developed such skills
because they've never needed to.

* Leave the big shack radios in the shack :). One of the things that
can make FD stressful is having to tear down the home station, pack it
into a "hostile" environment, pack it back, and then rebuild the shack.
Many of us have our shack radios and also have several "field" radios that
we might not otherwise consider for FD because they are lower power rigs.
If you're operating a QRP field day, you can leave the home shack intact,
and just bring your field radios which are also more accustomed to being
abused. Our FDs used to be something of a show of force, where folks
would seemingly bring every piece of radio equipment they owned. Now, we
try to do the opposite and typically pack complete stations in laptop and
camera bags. Having extra field rigs in your ranks can also be great for
newer members who a) may be more afraid to bring their nice base rigs into
the field, and b) often really appreciate the opportunity to operate other
kinds of radios.

* With smaller, low power field radios, it's much easier to pack for
camping as well as operating. Small radios, batteries, solar chargers,
and headphones all around makes for a nice break from the loud, sprawling
technological complexities we usually live with at home, and just getting
out of town can be a real treat.

* A QRP FD is a great opportunity to make contacts with hand-made
radios. Building a qrp kit radio and making five solar contacts with it
makes a fabulous sub-activity.

Remember, FD doesn't need to be exclusively about the number of
contacts. When we tell our war stories afterwards, it's the more
challenging or interesting contacts that we brag about!

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KENT TRIMBLE

Re: SSB QRP

In reply to this post by David Gilbert

Amen to all that Dave and Don have said against SSB QRP on Field Day.

Several years ago the Mid-MO Amateur Radio Club decided to go all QRP,
all batteries, and all wire antennas.

In the QRP category, we took first in our Section; first in our
Division; and 3rd in the nation.

CW carried the day. SSB was a bust. The phone boys said "never again
at QRP levels."

We also said, "never again in tents (one of our EmComm guys talked us
into it); never again at the airport (Missouri National Guard
helicopters played war games all weekend); and never, never, never again
without air-conditioning."

73,

Kent Trimble, K9ZTV
Jefferson City, MO

On 4/18/2012 1:43 PM, David Gilbert wrote:

> I've done LOTS of Field Day using QRP over the years, and in my opinion
> CW is the only way to go. The QRM on SSB is horrendous and the average
> Field Day operator is not going to be very good at picking you out of
> the mud. With CW they can use narrow filters and greatly improve their
> copy. But another key factor is that you get twice the points for a CW
> contact as you do for a SSB contact. Check out past scores and you'll
> typically find that the folks using SSB exclusively are toward the
> bottom of the stack.
>
> More QSOs and more points per QSO makes CW a no-brainer if you have the
> choice (i.e., CW ops).
>
> 73,
> Dave AB7E
>
>
>
> On 4/18/2012 11:00 AM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
>> Ron,
>>
>> I have done Field Day QRP SSB, and I can tell you that it is quite a
>> challenge. QRP CW can do quite nicely with both the QRP and CW
>> multipliers, but your signal must be above the noise level at the
>> receiving end to be heard. With typical Field Day antennas and often
>> high noise levels created by generator noise, SSB at 5 watts is
>> difficult indeed.
>>
>> If you want to try it, I would strongly recommend a beam antenna to give
>> you a signal boost.
>>
>> 73,
>> Don W3FPR
>>
>> On 4/18/2012 1:45 PM, ron wrote:
>>> On 04/18/2012 01:42 PM, ron wrote:
>>>> many thanks to all who responded ....
>>>>
>>>> I am trying to sway my local club to do QRP this year and wasn't sure
>>>> abt SSB.
>>> oops! I should have included the words: Field Day.
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
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>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
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>
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>

Jim Low man

Re: QRP FD (was Re: SSB QRP)

In reply to this post by Jessie Oberreuter-2

Jessie makes several good points.

As to the two points below: VHF at FD is indeed a lot of fun.
One year I took my Ten-Tec 526/"6N2" to our QRP FD and three of us (all
Extra class)
had a blast operating SSB at QRP levels. Our antennas were fairly simple:
a 2m short log periodic and a 3-element Yagi.

Of course, operating from 8,000' ASL and having a clear view up the
central valley
toward Bakersfield and Fresno helped considerably. :-)

You could even make your VHF station a GOTA station, which won't change your
club's transmitter class.

It's a good way to introduce Technician-class hams to FD operating, and
to give them
a piece of the action.

72/73 de Jim - AD6CW

On 4/18/2012 3:14 PM, Jessie Oberreuter wrote:

Don't forget VHF! A 6m opening can be a life changing experience!

* Mentor less experienced ops -- a few simple practices can go a LONG
way towards making contacts more successful. Sometimes it's knowing how
to exchange numbers in other ways than just repeating 3A 3A (eg "one,
two, three alpha"), how to use attenuation, how to note when a station
is clear but too busy to hear you, move on, and try again later. These
are great points of education for members who may have never developed
such skills because they've never needed to.
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