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SSB transmit audio - Where's the punch?

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WN3R, Dick

SSB transmit audio - Where's the punch?

I need some advice in how to get the same punch my fellow contester gets on
his FT-1000MP. He claims the K-3 audio will never be as good as Yaesu,
Kenwood, or ICOM.

Yesterday we spent several hours between ourselves and several European
stations tuning and testing. I never got a bad audio report, BUT I never
got a report I had the same PUNCH!!! He reduced power and still overtalked
me.

I have tried HC-4, HC-5, and HC-6 using W2IHY eight band EQ with the EQPlus
with some compression from the K-3.

I need some ideas before the next contest.

73, Dick, WN3R

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John Ragle

Re: SSB transmit audio - Where's the punch?

On 10/4/2010 1:41 PM, Dick, WN3R wrote:
> I need some advice in how to get the same punch my fellow contester gets on
> his FT-1000MP. He claims the K-3 audio will never be as good as Yaesu,
> Kenwood, or ICOM.
=====

Dick...

What level of compression are you using? I use a setting of around
20 or higher, as suggested by some folks at Elecraft. For a
peanut-whistle, the K3 has good audio "punch" at this setting.

Playing with the equilizers is probably not too useful, but for
most punch, you want a good fraction of your audio in the treble
mid-range, without wasting power on the lows, which don't translate into
intelligibility. On average, a male speaker's voice peaks in spectral
power around 500 Hz, within a broad band between 250 Hz and 1000 Hz.
These are the parts you want to emphasize wrt "punch," e.g.
intelligibility. Obviously the opposite of "high fidelity" reproduction,
which seems to be a current fad, at least on this reflecftor.

John Ragle -- W1ZI
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Bob Naumann W5OV

Re: SSB transmit audio - Where's the punch?

In reply to this post by WN3R, Dick

Dick,

You use "some compression"? Crank it up!

Dump the external EQ, and use either the HC-4 or HC-5 (no bias) and crank
the TX EQ bands up or down until it sounds nasty enough. You'll generally
reduce the lows and increase the highs.

Crank up the compression and it'll sound as bad as the Yaesu does.

Your fellow contester's claim reveals his lack of knowledge about the K3
as it can be adjusted to sound any way you want, with nearly any
microphone.

Generally speaking, if it doesn't sound right, crank it up.

73,

Bob W5OV

P.S. I know that audio purists will not like the above advice. But, you
are looking to bust pileups, not get an audio quality award.

> I need some advice in how to get the same punch my fellow contester gets
> on
> his FT-1000MP. He claims the K-3 audio will never be as good as Yaesu,
> Kenwood, or ICOM.
>
>
>
> Yesterday we spent several hours between ourselves and several European
> stations tuning and testing. I never got a bad audio report, BUT I never
> got a report I had the same PUNCH!!! He reduced power and still
> overtalked
> me.
>
>
>
> I have tried HC-4, HC-5, and HC-6 using W2IHY eight band EQ with the
> EQPlus
> with some compression from the K-3.
>
>
>
> I need some ideas before the next contest.
>
>
>
> 73, Dick, WN3R
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

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Rob May-2

Re: SSB transmit audio - Where's the punch?

In reply to this post by WN3R, Dick

The K3 has sufficient equalization to tailor the sound of any microphone, the external equalizer is completely unneeded in my opinion. My cheap-o computer gaming headset sounds really good (through the monitor) and gets great reports on the air. When chasing DX or during a contest I'll turn the compression up to 25. I've heard my signal through a couple of different radios that have their output online. The audio is surprisingly good. Setting the compression that high really makes a huge difference in average output and it makes a big difference on the other end.
Rob
NV5E

> From: [hidden email]
> To: [hidden email]
> Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2010 13:41:06 -0400
> Subject: [Elecraft] SSB transmit audio - Where's the punch?
>
> I need some advice in how to get the same punch my fellow contester gets on
> his FT-1000MP. He claims the K-3 audio will never be as good as Yaesu,
> Kenwood, or ICOM.
>
>
>
> Yesterday we spent several hours between ourselves and several European
> stations tuning and testing. I never got a bad audio report, BUT I never
> got a report I had the same PUNCH!!! He reduced power and still overtalked
> me.
>
>
>
> I have tried HC-4, HC-5, and HC-6 using W2IHY eight band EQ with the EQPlus
> with some compression from the K-3.
>
>
>
> I need some ideas before the next contest.
>
>
>
> 73, Dick, WN3R
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Tim Tucker

Re: SSB transmit audio - Where's the punch?

"Setting the compression that high really makes a huge difference in average
output "

It makes *some* difference in average output. There is nothing I have been
able to do to get the K3's average output anywhere close to what my Icom 746
Pro would do. The best average power numbers I have seen on my K3 with
various mic and settings combos are about 40-45 watts on specific syllables
or words. Typically I see about 30 watts with normal speaking. I have
tried with the built-in processing, with outboard compression, a combination
of the two, various mics, etc. On my Icom 746 Pro, I see 65 watts AVG with
the same mic and outboard compression. I spent hours doing the tests into
a dummy load, even comparing adding a Yaesu 897D into the mix for comparison
purposes.

The K3 sounds great IMO, but it does not have the same AVG SSB output power
of some other rigs available. That may or may not be important to you, so
decide for yourself how much stock you put in that. There are more details
of my findings here:
http://www.worldwidedx.com/hf-bands-hf-rigs/73806-elecraft-k3-review-2.html#post228882.
Personally, I think it would be interesting to see someone do the same tests
using some better test bench gear. I've sold most of mine...

Tim

On Mon, Oct 4, 2010 at 11:13 AM, Rob May <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> The K3 has sufficient equalization to tailor the sound of any microphone,
> the external equalizer is completely unneeded in my opinion. My cheap-o
> computer gaming headset sounds really good (through the monitor) and gets
> great reports on the air. When chasing DX or during a contest I'll turn the
> compression up to 25. I've heard my signal through a couple of different
> radios that have their output online. The audio is surprisingly good.
> Setting the compression that high really makes a huge difference in average
> output and it makes a big difference on the other end.
> Rob
> NV5E
>
>
> > From: [hidden email]
> > To: [hidden email]
> > Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2010 13:41:06 -0400
> > Subject: [Elecraft] SSB transmit audio - Where's the punch?
> >
> > I need some advice in how to get the same punch my fellow contester gets
> on
> > his FT-1000MP. He claims the K-3 audio will never be as good as Yaesu,
> > Kenwood, or ICOM.
> >
> >
> >
> > Yesterday we spent several hours between ourselves and several European
> > stations tuning and testing. I never got a bad audio report, BUT I never
> > got a report I had the same PUNCH!!! He reduced power and still
> overtalked
> > me.
> >
> >
> >
> > I have tried HC-4, HC-5, and HC-6 using W2IHY eight band EQ with the
> EQPlus
> > with some compression from the K-3.
> >
> >
> >
> > I need some ideas before the next contest.
> >
> >
> >
> > 73, Dick, WN3R
> >
> >
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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>

Grant Youngman

Re: SSB transmit audio - Where's the punch?

On Oct 4, 2010, at 2:00 PM, Tim Tucker wrote:

> "Setting the compression that high really makes a huge difference in average
> output "
>
> On my Icom 746 Pro, I see 65 watts AVG with
> the same mic and outboard compression. I spent hours doing the tests into
> a dummy load, even comparing adding a Yaesu 897D into the mix for comparison
> purposes.

Just guessing here, but 65 watts of "average" power out with 100 watts peak must sound pretty awful ..

Grant/NQ5T
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David Gilbert

Re: SSB transmit audio - Where's the punch?

In reply to this post by Tim Tucker

I also use a cheap computer headset (I've only found one single electret
headset out of several I've tried that ever sounded badly) with mic gain
set to 20 and compression set to 20. A compression setting of 25 for
my voice still gives decent audio, but I can definitely hear the onset
of noticeable distortion at that setting. I'm sure most people would
find it perfectly acceptable, though.

By the way, individual voice characteristics and assertiveness have a
LOT to do with how much "punch" a person has in their signal. I do a
lot of contesting and I hear lots of folks with strong signals who don't
speak strongly enough to do their signal justice. It has nothing to do
with how much gain or compression they are using ... they just sound
weak period. Listen to the DX multi-multi's who keep their mic gain low
enough that they don't distort but practically yell into the mic and
you'll see what I mean. The ones I'm referring to totally punch
through the noise and QRM without distortion even when their signal
isn't at killer strength. To be clear here, I'm not referring to
those several contest stations that have their gain and compression set
so high they splatter +/- 8 or more KHz.

I'm no audio expert, but I suspect that speaking more strongly adds more
spectrum to someone's voice, probably shifting the bulk of the energy
upwards toward higher frequencies. Maybe I'll do some spectrum tests
some time with my own voice to investigate it. I already have one
recent example where I was trying to help a guy address an issue he had
with weak and marginally choppy audio. He was transmitting while a
friend of his was in the shack making various adjustments (I think they
were even using a K3), but almost nothing they did helped very much.
The friend took over the mic to make a comment and the audio immediately
improved dramatically in both clarity and punch. They switched back to
the first operator and when he tried to speak more forcefully he sounded
much better, but for him it just wasn't "natural" and he couldn't
maintain it very long.

Whatever it is, it makes a difference and I'm not sure comparing one rig
to another using different operators is a good test.

73,
Dave AB7E

> On Mon, Oct 4, 2010 at 11:13 AM, Rob May<[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> The K3 has sufficient equalization to tailor the sound of any microphone,
>> the external equalizer is completely unneeded in my opinion. My cheap-o
>> computer gaming headset sounds really good (through the monitor) and gets
>> great reports on the air. When chasing DX or during a contest I'll turn the
>> compression up to 25. I've heard my signal through a couple of different
>> radios that have their output online. The audio is surprisingly good.
>> Setting the compression that high really makes a huge difference in average
>> output and it makes a big difference on the other end.
>> Rob
>> NV5E

David Gilbert

Re: SSB transmit audio - Where's the punch?

By the way, having more "punch" does not necessarily add intelligibility
.... it all depends upon the voice and where the additional energy goes
in the spectrum.

73,
Dave AB7E

On 10/4/2010 12:43 PM, David Gilbert wrote:

> I also use a cheap computer headset (I've only found one single electret
> headset out of several I've tried that ever sounded badly) with mic gain
> set to 20 and compression set to 20. A compression setting of 25 for
> my voice still gives decent audio, but I can definitely hear the onset
> of noticeable distortion at that setting. I'm sure most people would
> find it perfectly acceptable, though.
>
> By the way, individual voice characteristics and assertiveness have a
> LOT to do with how much "punch" a person has in their signal. I do a
> lot of contesting and I hear lots of folks with strong signals who don't
> speak strongly enough to do their signal justice. It has nothing to do
> with how much gain or compression they are using ... they just sound
> weak period. Listen to the DX multi-multi's who keep their mic gain low
> enough that they don't distort but practically yell into the mic and
> you'll see what I mean. The ones I'm referring to totally punch
> through the noise and QRM without distortion even when their signal
> isn't at killer strength. To be clear here, I'm not referring to
> those several contest stations that have their gain and compression set
> so high they splatter +/- 8 or more KHz.
>
> I'm no audio expert, but I suspect that speaking more strongly adds more
> spectrum to someone's voice, probably shifting the bulk of the energy
> upwards toward higher frequencies. Maybe I'll do some spectrum tests
> some time with my own voice to investigate it. I already have one
> recent example where I was trying to help a guy address an issue he had
> with weak and marginally choppy audio. He was transmitting while a
> friend of his was in the shack making various adjustments (I think they
> were even using a K3), but almost nothing they did helped very much.
> The friend took over the mic to make a comment and the audio immediately
> improved dramatically in both clarity and punch. They switched back to
> the first operator and when he tried to speak more forcefully he sounded
> much better, but for him it just wasn't "natural" and he couldn't
> maintain it very long.
>
> Whatever it is, it makes a difference and I'm not sure comparing one rig
> to another using different operators is a good test.
>
> 73,
> Dave AB7E
>
>
>
>> On Mon, Oct 4, 2010 at 11:13 AM, Rob May<[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> The K3 has sufficient equalization to tailor the sound of any microphone,
>>> the external equalizer is completely unneeded in my opinion. My cheap-o
>>> computer gaming headset sounds really good (through the monitor) and gets
>>> great reports on the air. When chasing DX or during a contest I'll turn the
>>> compression up to 25. I've heard my signal through a couple of different
>>> radios that have their output online. The audio is surprisingly good.
>>> Setting the compression that high really makes a huge difference in average
>>> output and it makes a big difference on the other end.
>>> Rob
>>> NV5E
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: SSB transmit audio - Where's the punch?

In reply to this post by WN3R, Dick

> I need some advice in how to get the same punch my fellow contester
> gets on his FT-1000MP. He claims the K-3 audio will never be as good
> as Yaesu, Kenwood, or ICOM.

That should probably be restated as will never be as dirty as Yaesu,
Kenwood or Icom since the ALC circuits all three radios actually work
by overdriving the final amplifiers BEFORE they start to produce any
ALC action. In effect, their final amplifiers act like an unfiltered
RF clipper.

That said, the K3 is certainly capable of providing significant "punch"
if adjusted properly. With nearly any mic adjust the lower two bands
in the K3 equalizer to the minimum and adjust the top three for the
amount of high frequency boost desired (EQ is before the clipping
function, if I remember correctly so it sets the "balance" of highs
and lows). The HC-4 will need less high frequency boost than an HC-5
which needs less boost than the new HC-6.

Adjust the mic gain until you see 5 to 6 bars of ALC action and then
add compression until you see 10 to 15 dB indicated on the COMP
display (setting between 20 and 30). Control power output with the
power control and adjust TXG VCE for +5. to +1.5 dB to bring the
peak power on SSB (using a pulser) to the same level as peaks on
CW (using CW dots).

For a better understanding of the K3 speech processor see the study
by Jack, W8OZA at:
<http://cliftonlaboratories.com/elecraft_k3_speech_processing.htm>

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 10/4/2010 1:41 PM, Dick, WN3R wrote:

> I need some advice in how to get the same punch my fellow contester gets on
> his FT-1000MP. He claims the K-3 audio will never be as good as Yaesu,
> Kenwood, or ICOM.
>
>
>
> Yesterday we spent several hours between ourselves and several European
> stations tuning and testing. I never got a bad audio report, BUT I never
> got a report I had the same PUNCH!!! He reduced power and still overtalked
> me.
>
>
>
> I have tried HC-4, HC-5, and HC-6 using W2IHY eight band EQ with the EQPlus
> with some compression from the K-3.
>
>
>
> I need some ideas before the next contest.
>
>
>
> 73, Dick, WN3R
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

Tim Tucker

Re: SSB transmit audio - Where's the punch?

In reply to this post by Grant Youngman

Not to anyone that has actually heard it on the air. I have a screen print
of what it looks like on a P3 around here somewhere. Yep, you're "just
guessing" :) :)

On Mon, Oct 4, 2010 at 12:37 PM, Grant Youngman <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> On Oct 4, 2010, at 2:00 PM, Tim Tucker wrote:
>
> > "Setting the compression that high really makes a huge difference in
> average
> > output "
> >
> > On my Icom 746 Pro, I see 65 watts AVG with
> > the same mic and outboard compression. I spent hours doing the tests
> into
> > a dummy load, even comparing adding a Yaesu 897D into the mix for
> comparison
> > purposes.
>
> Just guessing here, but 65 watts of "average" power out with 100 watts
> peak must sound pretty awful ..
>
> Grant/NQ5T
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

Don Wilhelm-4

Re: SSB transmit audio - Where's the punch?

In reply to this post by Grant Youngman

Maybe that is why I hear so many signals during a contest that it
takes an inordinate length of time to make the call and report intelligible.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 10/4/2010 3:37 PM, Grant Youngman wrote:
> Just guessing here, but 65 watts of "average" power out with 100 watts
> peak must sound pretty awful ..
> Grant/NQ5T
>
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Nate Bargmann

Re: SSB transmit audio - Where's the punch?

In reply to this post by David Gilbert

You're absolutely correct, David. Some people are just reluctant to get
their diaphram into the act and speak with confidence, not just voice
volume. I know some folk who will speak at a good volume until they
grab the mic and then seem to drop 10 dB or so by speaking in almost a
hushed tone of voice. As amateur rigs generally don't use compression
amps in the mic circuits, a strong, confident voice level is essential
to modulating the radio correctly. I tell new ops to "belly up" to the
microphone as an SSB rig's power output is directly related to how well
they speak in the mic. Some seem to get it and others don't.

Even on FM I have tried to tell ops to speak up which they will for a
bit and then lapse back into a whisper which is next to impossible to
copy in a noisy vehicle.

73, de Nate >>

--

"The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
possible worlds. The pessimist fears this is true."

Ham radio, Linux, bikes, and more: http://n0nb.us/index.html
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hf4me

Re: SSB transmit audio - Where's the punch?

In reply to this post by Bob Naumann W5OV

Don't get it too high. Higher is NOT necessarily better. I hear station in
contests that are very strong and they are almost impossible to understand
because they have their compression WAY to high. Turning it down would make
them much better.

I just made 1752 contacts in a special event and got many unsolicited
comments on my audio being very good, excellent, etc. I was running the HC4
and the mic gain at 25 and the compression at 25. My voice is relatively
low.

73, de Jim KG0KP

----- Original Message -----
From: <[hidden email]>
To: "Dick, WN3R" <[hidden email]>
Cc: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 1:11 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] SSB transmit audio - Where's the punch?

> Dick,
>
> You use "some compression"? Crank it up!
>
> Dump the external EQ, and use either the HC-4 or HC-5 (no bias) and crank
> the TX EQ bands up or down until it sounds nasty enough. You'll generally
> reduce the lows and increase the highs.
>
> Crank up the compression and it'll sound as bad as the Yaesu does.
>
> Your fellow contester's claim reveals his lack of knowledge about the K3
> as it can be adjusted to sound any way you want, with nearly any
> microphone.
>
> Generally speaking, if it doesn't sound right, crank it up.
>
> 73,
>
> Bob W5OV
>
> P.S. I know that audio purists will not like the above advice. But, you
> are looking to bust pileups, not get an audio quality award.
>
>
>> I need some advice in how to get the same punch my fellow contester gets
>> on
>> his FT-1000MP. He claims the K-3 audio will never be as good as Yaesu,
>> Kenwood, or ICOM.
>>
>>
>>
>> Yesterday we spent several hours between ourselves and several European
>> stations tuning and testing. I never got a bad audio report, BUT I never
>> got a report I had the same PUNCH!!! He reduced power and still
>> overtalked
>> me.
>>
>>
>>
>> I have tried HC-4, HC-5, and HC-6 using W2IHY eight band EQ with the
>> EQPlus
>> with some compression from the K-3.
>>
>>
>>
>> I need some ideas before the next contest.
>>
>>
>>
>> 73, Dick, WN3R
>>
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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>

Gary Gregory

Re: SSB transmit audio - Where's the punch?

In reply to this post by Nate Bargmann

Nate,

Could this be alleviated when using a Turner +3 microphone.
in the case of a soft spoken operator?

After reading your post I went and plugged the Turner in and immediately
noticed a more "punchy" audio..

Does this sound right to you?..I am definitely guilty of speaking too
softly..:-(

73's
Gary

On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 11:24 AM, Nate Bargmann <[hidden email]> wrote:

> You're absolutely correct, David. Some people are just reluctant to get
> their diaphram into the act and speak with confidence, not just voice
> volume. I know some folk who will speak at a good volume until they
> grab the mic and then seem to drop 10 dB or so by speaking in almost a
> hushed tone of voice. As amateur rigs generally don't use compression
> amps in the mic circuits, a strong, confident voice level is essential
> to modulating the radio correctly. I tell new ops to "belly up" to the
> microphone as an SSB rig's power output is directly related to how well
> they speak in the mic. Some seem to get it and others don't.
>
> Even on FM I have tried to tell ops to speak up which they will for a
> bit and then lapse back into a whisper which is next to impossible to
> copy in a noisy vehicle.
>
> 73, de Nate >>
>
> --
>
> "The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
> possible worlds. The pessimist fears this is true."
>
> Ham radio, Linux, bikes, and more: http://n0nb.us/index.html
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
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--
Gary
VK4FD - Motorhome Mobile
http://www.qsl.net/vk4fd/
K3 #679
For everything else there's Mastercard!!!
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Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: SSB transmit audio - Where's the punch?

> Could this be alleviated when using a Turner +3 microphone.
> in the case of a soft spoken operator?

Only of the "soft spoken operator" is in a very quiet shack.
The typical problem is that the operator's voice is barely
louder than the background noise ... blowers, fans, other
radios, etc ... and the amplified microphones bring up that
background noise as much as the operator's voice.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 10/4/2010 10:00 PM, Gary Gregory wrote:

> Nate,
>
> Could this be alleviated when using a Turner +3 microphone.
> in the case of a soft spoken operator?
>
> After reading your post I went and plugged the Turner in and immediately
> noticed a more "punchy" audio..
>
> Does this sound right to you?..I am definitely guilty of speaking too
> softly..:-(
>
> 73's
> Gary
>
> On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 11:24 AM, Nate Bargmann<[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> You're absolutely correct, David. Some people are just reluctant to get
>> their diaphram into the act and speak with confidence, not just voice
>> volume. I know some folk who will speak at a good volume until they
>> grab the mic and then seem to drop 10 dB or so by speaking in almost a
>> hushed tone of voice. As amateur rigs generally don't use compression
>> amps in the mic circuits, a strong, confident voice level is essential
>> to modulating the radio correctly. I tell new ops to "belly up" to the
>> microphone as an SSB rig's power output is directly related to how well
>> they speak in the mic. Some seem to get it and others don't.
>>
>> Even on FM I have tried to tell ops to speak up which they will for a
>> bit and then lapse back into a whisper which is next to impossible to
>> copy in a noisy vehicle.
>>
>> 73, de Nate>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> "The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
>> possible worlds. The pessimist fears this is true."
>>
>> Ham radio, Linux, bikes, and more: http://n0nb.us/index.html
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
>
>
>

David Gilbert

Re: SSB transmit audio - Where's the punch?

In reply to this post by hf4me

Totally true. I've probably previously cited the example from last
winter's NAQP contest where I heard a Midwest guy endlessly calling CQ
with very few callers even though he had a booming signal here in
Arizona. The problem was he had so much mic gain and compression nobody
could understand his callsign. I gave him a call and told him that, so
he kept cranking it down until he was fully intelligible. He was more
than 12 db weaker than when he started (and it wasn't due to QSB) but he
immediately started getting replies.

I came across another example in the CQP this past weekend. I was
running and the caller had so much compression that I couldn't make out
his suffix even after a few tries. I told him to back down the mic
gain, he did, and he sounded way better.

People who set their mic gain and compression levels to maximize their
output power are a scourge on our hobby.

73,
Dave AB7E

On 10/4/2010 6:52 PM, Jim Miller KG0KP wrote:

> Don't get it too high. Higher is NOT necessarily better. I hear station in
> contests that are very strong and they are almost impossible to understand
> because they have their compression WAY to high. Turning it down would make
> them much better.
>
> I just made 1752 contacts in a special event and got many unsolicited
> comments on my audio being very good, excellent, etc. I was running the HC4
> and the mic gain at 25 and the compression at 25. My voice is relatively
> low.
>
> 73, de Jim KG0KP
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From:<[hidden email]>
> To: "Dick, WN3R"<[hidden email]>
> Cc:<[hidden email]>
> Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 1:11 PM
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] SSB transmit audio - Where's the punch?
>
>
>> Dick,
>>
>> You use "some compression"? Crank it up!
>>
>> Dump the external EQ, and use either the HC-4 or HC-5 (no bias) and crank
>> the TX EQ bands up or down until it sounds nasty enough. You'll generally
>> reduce the lows and increase the highs.
>>
>> Crank up the compression and it'll sound as bad as the Yaesu does.
>>
>> Your fellow contester's claim reveals his lack of knowledge about the K3
>> as it can be adjusted to sound any way you want, with nearly any
>> microphone.
>>
>> Generally speaking, if it doesn't sound right, crank it up.
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> Bob W5OV
>>
>> P.S. I know that audio purists will not like the above advice. But, you
>> are looking to bust pileups, not get an audio quality award.
>>
>>
>>> I need some advice in how to get the same punch my fellow contester gets
>>> on
>>> his FT-1000MP. He claims the K-3 audio will never be as good as Yaesu,
>>> Kenwood, or ICOM.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Yesterday we spent several hours between ourselves and several European
>>> stations tuning and testing. I never got a bad audio report, BUT I never
>>> got a report I had the same PUNCH!!! He reduced power and still
>>> overtalked
>>> me.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I have tried HC-4, HC-5, and HC-6 using W2IHY eight band EQ with the
>>> EQPlus
>>> with some compression from the K-3.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I need some ideas before the next contest.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 73, Dick, WN3R
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
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>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

juergen piezo

Re: SSB transmit audio - Where's the punch?

In reply to this post by Gary Gregory

Hi Gary

Oh no, we dont any more LIDS with amplified CB microphones on the bands . The ESSB garbage produces enough splatter as it is.

We dont need to encourage the ""all knobs to the right"" brigade with amplified microphones.

The K3 has HI and LOW mic gain settings, and thats more than enough with any decent microphone.

73
John

--- On Mon, 10/4/10, Gary Gregory <[hidden email]> wrote:

> From: Gary Gregory <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] SSB transmit audio - Where's the punch?
> To: [hidden email]
> Date: Monday, October 4, 2010, 7:00 PM
> Nate,
>
> Could this be alleviated when using a Turner +3
> microphone.
> in the case of a soft spoken operator?
>
> After reading your post I went and plugged the Turner in
> and immediately
> noticed a more "punchy" audio..
>
> Does this sound right to you?..I am definitely guilty of
> speaking too
> softly..:-(
>
> 73's
> Gary
>
> On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 11:24 AM, Nate Bargmann <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > You're absolutely correct, David. Some people
> are just reluctant to get
> > their diaphram into the act and speak with confidence,
> not just voice
> > volume. I know some folk who will speak at a
> good volume until they
> > grab the mic and then seem to drop 10 dB or so by
> speaking in almost a
> > hushed tone of voice. As amateur rigs generally
> don't use compression
> > amps in the mic circuits, a strong, confident voice
> level is essential
> > to modulating the radio correctly. I tell new
> ops to "belly up" to the
> > microphone as an SSB rig's power output is directly
> related to how well
> > they speak in the mic. Some seem to get it and
> others don't.
> >
> > Even on FM I have tried to tell ops to speak up which
> they will for a
> > bit and then lapse back into a whisper which is next
> to impossible to
> > copy in a noisy vehicle.
> >
> > 73, de Nate >>
> >
> > --
> >
> > "The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of
> all
> > possible worlds. The pessimist fears this is
> true."
> >
> > Ham radio, Linux, bikes, and more: http://n0nb.us/index.html
> >
> ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Gary
> VK4FD - Motorhome Mobile
> http://www.qsl.net/vk4fd/
> K3 #679
> For everything else there's Mastercard!!!
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

K2QI

Re: SSB transmit audio - Where's the punch?

I don't know if it has been mentioned, but one must also take care when
increasing compression and using an amplifier. Too much, and the amp goes
out of linearity resulting in "flat topping" as can be easily seen on a
bandscope.

Just a thought...
--
73 de James K2QI
President UNARC/4U1UN
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--... ...-- -.. . .--- .- -- . ...

Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ

Re: SSB transmit audio - Where's the punch?

Administrator

In reply to this post by juergen piezo

Folks - Please drop any direct criticisms of other ops or operating
modes (like ESSB) from this thread. Please keep it friendly here.

Its OK to discuss the technical merits of various settings and operating
methods, but it is inappropriate to call anyone a lid or to characterize
anyone as a scurge or a mode like ESSB as garbage. Please take comments
and opinions like those to other forums.

73, Eric
Elecraft list moderator
----

On 10/5/2010 1:42 AM, juergen wrote:
> Hi Gary
>
> Oh no, we dont any more LIDS with amplified CB microphones on the bands . The ESSB garbage produces enough splatter as it is.
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Jim Brown-10

Re: SSB transmit audio - Where's the punch?

In reply to this post by Joe Subich, W4TV-4

On 10/4/2010 7:24 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:
> > Could this be alleviated when using a Turner +3 microphone.
> > in the case of a soft spoken operator?
>
> Only of the "soft spoken operator" is in a very quiet shack.
> The typical problem is that the operator's voice is barely
> louder than the background noise ... blowers, fans, other
> radios, etc ... and the amplified microphones bring up that
> background noise as much as the operator's voice.

There are several good solutions for background noise, and they can be
used in combination.

1) ALWAYS work VERY close to the mic, and turn down the mic gain to
compensate. Sound levels drop by 6dB for each doubling of distance, so
your voice gets louder while the background noise remains the same.

2) ALWAYS roll off the low frequencies (below about 350 Hz). They
provide NO useful intelligibility, but contain a lot of the noise (and
they waste TX power).

3) Use a directional (cardioid) microphone, and speak straight into it.
A directional mic rejects roughly 6dB of the noise.

4) Use only enough compression so that the compression meter on your rig
indicates 10dB compression on peaks. Do NOT use your SWR meter to gauge
compression. Compression "turns up the gain" during the quieter part of
your speech, so it makes background noise louder.

Dave, AB7E, said:

>I was running and the caller had so much compression that I couldn't
>make out his suffix even after a few tries. I told him to back down the
>mic gain, he did, and he sounded way better.

I have the same problem in every SSB contest. I find that at least one
third of all callers are so badly overdriven that they are hard to copy.
And I make a point of telling each of them to turn down their audio to
make it easier to copy.

73, Jim K9YC
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123