Second Antenna Port

[Mike K4PI]

I have asked Elecraft several time about giving the option of a second antenna port without having to buy an antenna tuner but so far nothing.  I have had a FT1000MP for over 15 years and never used the internal tuner so don’t see me needing one in the K3.  The hole is already there for the connector so just need a mod on the ANT Relay board.  I know I could put an outboard switch on the outside but I would like to put 6 M on one of the ports and with the outboard switch that make 2 extra connectors in the line.  Having the antenna switch inside the radio is a lot more elegant and efficient.  Having to pay for the antenna tuner just to get a second port goes against my miserly grain.  Having the 2 ports without having to buy the antenna tuner would be a nice selling point for Elecraft I would think.  Wonder if anyone has ever tried to install the second antenna port by mod’ing the antenna relay board?  I have my asbestos suit on.  73 Mike K4PI
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[Arie Kleingeld PA3A-2]

Mike,

I think that the second antenna port (without a tuner) was not high on
the list of the designcriteria when the K3 started off. Changing a full
grown product and full grown production line now is not wise. Not that
it cannot be done, but how much must one invest to get this done and how
many new K3's will have be sold to make a profit if many of the new k3
owners will take a tuner anyway? (I have one).

If your wish was on the list in the beginning and you were part of the
'inner circle' and fieldtestteam, and many others would have backed this
wish, the second antennaport would have been there. What I see is that
Elecraft gets a lot of the designcriteria from listening to customers.
This reflector is one of the important infochannels for that purpose. I
think the designteam of the K3 probably got 95% right.
IMHO they missed the 6m sensitivity thing. If most customers and the
'inner circle' are HF orientated, who would have thought of needing a
lower MDS on 6m. I would not have either! I am a HF man. But anyway,
they got that on solved with the piggy-back pre-amp.

But who am I to judge anyone? I was not there when decisions had to be
made. Nor was I part of any 'inner circle' or fieldtestteam. What I do
know is that now that I have a ful loaded K3, it amazes anyone at my
radioclub when we use it in a contest. (Of all the guys there, I'm the
only Eelecraft user). Others say that they love the RX, the use of the
IF-out (softrock-psdr-if-cwskimmer etc), the diversity reception, the
flexibility of the rig, sending special CAT-commands with the
F9-F12-keys to the K3, etc. And I agree.

I have my own frustration though. Just have to bring this up again. The
L-mix-R has so many options. Why not implement a Ab-Ba option? Left
channel "Ab" is normal volumelevel A mixed with -6dB (or so) level of
channel B and the right channel the other way around. I have asked for
this several times and it is only a firmware thing next to the A-b,
A-Ab, Ab-b, Ab-Ab, Ab-A, b-Ab, b-b, b-A, A-A.  Oh well, if I'm the only
person that would like this feature implemented...

73 to all,
Arie PA3A






Op 8-2-2012 2:44, Mike Greenway schreef:
> <snip>  I have asked Elecraft several time about giving the option of a second antenna port without having to buy an antenna tuner but so far nothing.<snip>     73 Mike K4PI
>
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[Igor Sokolov-2]

Arie,
What you are requesting is easier to implement externally. I for one think
there are too many options. I need to cut internal AF switching to A-b, A-A,
b-b.  It takes too long to cycle through all the switchig AF options when in
the contest. So I will implement what I need externally myself.

73, Igor UA9CDC

> I have my own frustration though. Just have to bring this up again. The
> L-mix-R has so many options. Why not implement a Ab-Ba option? Left
> channel "Ab" is normal volumelevel A mixed with -6dB (or so) level of
> channel B and the right channel the other way around. I have asked for
> this several times and it is only a firmware thing next to the A-b,
> A-Ab, Ab-b, Ab-Ab, Ab-A, b-Ab, b-b, b-A, A-A.  Oh well, if I'm the only
> person that would like this feature implemented...
>
> 73 to all,
> Arie PA3A

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[Arie Kleingeld PA3A-2]

Igor,

Antenna switching is also very easy to implement outside the K3 or any
other trx. Still transceivers and also the KAT3 tuner are delivered with
2 antenna ports.

Just let me explain and share with everybody how I switch the K3 audio
and why I donot want to do this 'outboard'.
During the last CQ 160 CW at PI4D I had the main transmitting antenna
connected to the K3 Ant1 and a receive antenna to the RX ant connector.
I linked A and B VFO together with same mode, freq and fixed BW (400Hz)
and listened A-B, like diversity.
With the F-keys of N1MM you can send CAT commands to the K3 to change
A-B to A-A or B-B or any other implemented combo and back with a single
keystroke. Thank you Elecraft and N1MM programmers for making this possible.
When working in split I sure would like my Ab-Ba setup, also with a
single keystroke and not by a external switch. For this is has to be
implemented in the Config.

By the way: The Ab-Ba setup is implemented in a FT1000MP as a standard
listening method when you listen to main and sub RXs.  I often wonder
why my repeated request for the Ab-Ba was ignored. Maybe because I am
just some PA3A. Oh yes, I got one answer once about 2 years ago: It did
not fit the display: the B could be read as a 8. Oh boy......  But times
are new. It might happen.

Coming back on the F-key trick from N1MM to switch audio, if anybody is
interested, just let me know. I'll be happy to share this.

73 to all
Arie PA3A


Op 8-2-2012 14:43, Igor Sokolov schreef:
> Arie,
> What you are requesting is easier to implement externally. I for one
> think there are too many options. I need to cut internal AF switching
> to A-b, A-A, b-b.  It takes too long to cycle through all the switchig
> AF options when in the contest. So I will implement what I need
> externally myself.
>
> 73, Igor UA9CDC
>
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[Arie Kleingeld PA3A-2]

I meant SubRX connector here instead of RX Ant

Op 8-2-2012 16:10, Arie Kleingeld PA3A schreef:
> snip>  During the last CQ 160 CW at PI4D I had the main transmitting antenna
> connected to the K3 Ant1 and a receive antenna to the RX ant connector.<  snip
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[Igor Sokolov-2]

Arie,
my comments below:
> Antenna switching is also very easy to implement outside the K3 or any
> other trx. Still transceivers and also the KAT3 tuner are delivered with 2
> antenna ports.

It does not mean this feature is used often. I sometimes (very seldom) need
antenna tuner but almost never use the second antenna port. So there were no
point for me to pay for this feature.
Having said that, I often use SubRx connector for the sub RX.
>
> Just let me explain and share with everybody how I switch the K3 audio and
> why I donot want to do this 'outboard'.
> During the last CQ 160 CW at PI4D I had the main transmitting antenna
> connected to the K3 Ant1 and a receive antenna to the RX ant connector.
> I linked A and B VFO together with same mode, freq and fixed BW (400Hz)
> and listened A-B, like diversity.

Same here. Nothern and Western antennas combined and connected to the main
RX. Southern and Eastern antennas combined and connected to Sub RX.

> With the F-keys of N1MM you can send CAT commands to the K3 to change A-B
> to A-A or B-B or any other implemented combo and back with a single
> keystroke. Thank you Elecraft and N1MM programmers for making this
> possible.
> When working in split I sure would like my Ab-Ba setup, also with a single
> keystroke and not by a external switch. For this is has to be implemented
> in the Config.

I use external 3 position switch for the same purpose. Most of the time
(95%) main radio in the left ear and sub radio in the right. When there is
need to pull out weak signal from one of the directions I can put one radio
into both ears. The switch is near the keyboard so no problems to do
switching. But external switching allows also the use of the 3rd radio (
mult hunting on a different band) where one can mix the third radio into one
of the 2 channels. This mix can be regulated (balanced) with the resistor
pot installed in the same external box. Should I need more options it can
all be easily implemented externally.

73, Igor UA9CDC

>
> By the way: The Ab-Ba setup is implemented in a FT1000MP as a standard
> listening method when you listen to main and sub RXs.  I often wonder why
> my repeated request for the Ab-Ba was ignored. Maybe because I am just
> some PA3A. Oh yes, I got one answer once about 2 years ago: It did not fit
> the display: the B could be read as a 8. Oh boy......  But times are new.
> It might happen.
>
> Coming back on the F-key trick from N1MM to switch audio, if anybody is
> interested, just let me know. I'll be happy to share this.
>
> 73 to all
> Arie PA3A
>
>
> Op 8-2-2012 14:43, Igor Sokolov schreef:
>> Arie,
>> What you are requesting is easier to implement externally. I for one
>> think there are too many options. I need to cut internal AF switching to
>> A-b, A-A, b-b.  It takes too long to cycle through all the switchig AF
>> options when in the contest. So I will implement what I need externally
>> myself.
>>
>> 73, Igor UA9CDC
>>

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[K9TM]

I too am used to having multiple antenna ports built into the radio and use this to advantage in various situations.  I too have no use for an antenna tuner as I use only resonant antennas.  It seems there are three options... 1) live with it as is and use outboard switching :-(  (2) Give in and add the antenna tuner :-(  (3) Make your own solution* :-|, perhaps with help from Elecraft :-) ?

* Looking at the schematics, it appears it would be possible to add the control circuitry from the KAT3 to the KANT3 as well as K18 to give ant1/ant2 (K19 too for those with a sub).  It seems one could do this and tell the K3 it has KAT3 and then set the tuner to off and use ant1/ant2.  
Maybe Elecraft would sell a KAT3 bare board or better  a bare board and the handful of parts (KAT3 minus tuner parts) and users could roll their own (a kit)?  This would allow those of us who are used to this from other radios and like it without negatively impacting Elecraft's normal mfg process and sales (a win-win). Sell us one more kit from parts already in stock.

73, Tim K9TM, KP2TM
K3-100, K3-10, KPA500, XV144, XV222, XV432

On Feb 7, 2012, at 8:44 PM, Mike Greenway wrote:

I have asked Elecraft several time about giving the option of a second antenna port without having to buy an antenna tuner but so far nothing.  I have had a FT1000MP for over 15 years and never used the internal tuner so don’t see me needing one in the K3.  The hole is already there for the connector so just need a mod on the ANT Relay board.  I know I could put an outboard switch on the outside but I would like to put 6 M on one of the ports and with the outboard switch that make 2 extra connectors in the line.  Having the antenna switch inside the radio is a lot more elegant and efficient.  Having to pay for the antenna tuner just to get a second port goes against my miserly grain.  Having the 2 ports without having to buy the antenna tuner would be a nice selling point for Elecraft I would think.  Wonder if anyone has ever tried to install the second antenna port by mod’ing the antenna relay board?  I have my asbestos suit on.  73 Mike K4PI
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[Cookie]

I ordered the K3 with the KAT-3 and if I had it to do over, I would order the KAT-3 again.  My antenna is a 3 element SteppIR at 67 feet with the 30/40 kit.  I have found the tuner very useful during the period when Hurricane Ike put my StepIR out of service for a few months and I needed to use my inverted L for the 40 through 6 meter bands.  I find it useful in matching to my Clipperton L amplifier.  I find it useful when using my dipoles for short range contacts when away from the point of resonance.  I am sure that Elecraft has considered offering the tuner board with only the switching components and considered what discount they could offer.  I am not privileged to their inner workings so my estimate is only a guess, but I would expect them to lose money on the deal if the discount was more than $50 and I would not be surprised if they would lose money with no discount at all, considering that they would sell very few items.  What price would
 you expect for the board with only the switching components and the antenna connector?  As a KAT-3 owner I can see no disadvantage to buying it other than the initial price.
 
Willis 'Cookie' Cooke, K3 #1025
K5EWJ & Trustee N5BPS, USS Cavalla, USS Stewart


________________________________
 From: K9TM <[hidden email]>
To: Mike Greenway <[hidden email]>
Cc: [hidden email]
Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2012 12:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Second Antenna Port
 
I too am used to having multiple antenna ports built into the radio and use this to advantage in various situations.  I too have no use for an antenna tuner as I use only resonant antennas.  It seems there are three options... 1) live with it as is and use outboard switching :-(  (2) Give in and add the antenna tuner :-(  (3) Make your own solution* :-|, perhaps with help from Elecraft :-) ?

* Looking at the schematics, it appears it would be possible to add the control circuitry from the KAT3 to the KANT3 as well as K18 to give ant1/ant2 (K19 too for those with a sub).  It seems one could do this and tell the K3 it has KAT3 and then set the tuner to off and use ant1/ant2. 
Maybe Elecraft would sell a KAT3 bare board or better  a bare board and the handful of parts (KAT3 minus tuner parts) and users could roll their own (a kit)?  This would allow those of us who are used to this from other radios and like it without negatively impacting Elecraft's normal mfg process and sales (a win-win). Sell us one more kit from parts already in stock.

73, Tim K9TM, KP2TM
K3-100, K3-10, KPA500, XV144, XV222, XV432

On Feb 7, 2012, at 8:44 PM, Mike Greenway wrote:

I have asked Elecraft several time about giving the option of a second antenna port without having to buy an antenna tuner but so far nothing.  I have had a FT1000MP for over 15 years and never used the internal tuner so don’t see me needing one in the K3.  The hole is already there for the connector so just need a mod on the ANT Relay board.  I know I could put an outboard switch on the outside but I would like to put 6 M on one of the ports and with the outboard switch that make 2 extra connectors in the line.  Having the antenna switch inside the radio is a lot more elegant and efficient.  Having to pay for the antenna tuner just to get a second port goes against my miserly grain.  Having the 2 ports without having to buy the antenna tuner would be a nice selling point for Elecraft I would think.  Wonder if anyone has ever tried to install the second antenna port by mod’ing the antenna relay board?  I have my asbestos suit on.  73 Mike
 K4PI
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[Don Wilhelm-4]

I originally did not purchase the KAT3 - I have all resonant antennas at
home.
Then I had thoughts about using my K3 at the local club's Field Day
location, so I bought the KX3 to help with that situation - yes the club
has an antenna for each band, but depending on the current hanging
height, they may not be resonant.  So I "memorized" the tuner settings
for each antenna into the K3 at the beginning of the Field Day event and
did not have to change them.

At home, I run the KAT3 in bypass except when I am using my 160/80/40
meter vertical/inverted L which is quite narrowband.

I do not use the 2nd antenna port because I had previously designed
switching between the 3 coax runs to the antenna field to one of 3 HF
transceivers with a relay matrix that lives in the shack, and remote
antenna switches that live at the entry point to the antenna field.

Your situation may be different, but I suggest that the KAT3 is a good
thing unless you do not ever think about taking your K3 out of the
shack.  You can easily arrange antenna switching external to the K3 with
a little bit of work.  The nice thing about using external relays is
that you can design the contacts to connect a dummy load to your
transceiver when the relay box is not powered - no problems with static
surges when not operating.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 2/11/2012 5:39 PM, WILLIS COOKE wrote:
> I ordered the K3 with the KAT-3 and if I had it to do over, I would order the KAT-3 again.  My antenna is a 3 element SteppIR at 67 feet with the 30/40 kit.  I have found the tuner very useful during the period when Hurricane Ike put my StepIR out of service for a few months and I needed to use my inverted L for the 40 through 6 meter bands.  I find it useful in matching to my Clipperton L amplifier.  I find it useful when using my dipoles for short range contacts when away from the point of resonance.  I am sure that Elecraft has considered offering the tuner board with only the switching components and considered what discount they could offer.  I am not privileged to their inner workings so my estimate is only a guess, but I would expect them to lose money on the deal if the discount was more than $50 and I would not be surprised if they would lose money with no discount at all, considering that they would sell very few items.  What price would
>   you expect for the board with only the switching components and the antenna connector?  As a KAT-3 owner I can see no disadvantage to buying it other than the initial price.
>  
> Willis 'Cookie' Cooke, K3 #1025
> K5EWJ&  Trustee N5BPS, USS Cavalla, USS Stewart
>

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[Nick Kennedy]

This is similar to how I connect the K3 with KAT3.  Port ANT-2 goes to
my antenna switch and port ANT-1 goes to my dummy load.  When the K3 is
powered down, it is in the ANT-1 position, so I get a measure of
protection when I switch off the rig.

73-

Nick, WA5BDU

On 2/11/2012 5:13 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
>   You can easily arrange antenna switching external to the K3 with
> a little bit of work.  The nice thing about using external relays is
> that you can design the contacts to connect a dummy load to your
> transceiver when the relay box is not powered - no problems with static
> surges when not operating.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>

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