Serial Bus Adapter

[Bob-165]

What was the rationale behind a cutting edge (2007-08) product such as the
Elecraft K3 being supplied with a RS232 interface in stead of a USB port? I
think it was 5 computers ago the last I saw the 9 pin RS2323. If eventually
they do change to a USB direct port, will this be a retro fit for existing
radios?

Thanks
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[Matt Zilmer]

See http://www.elecraft.com/ Look for the K3 Online Order Page.

"KUSB Universal Serial Bus Adapter  $39.00"

A somewhat useful answer is that many hams use downrev computers. This
seems to be because they spend a lot of $ on radio equipment.

matt, WA6EGJ
K3 s/n 24



 14:39:12 -0500, you wrote:

>What was the rationale behind a cutting edge (2007-08) product such as the
>Elecraft K3 being supplied with a RS232 interface in stead of a USB port? I
>think it was 5 computers ago the last I saw the 9 pin RS2323. If eventually
>they do change to a USB direct port, will this be a retro fit for existing
>radios?
>
>Thanks
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[Jim Wiley-2]

Bob -


One issue might have been that I believe equipment that incorporates USB
requires a licensing fee, whereas RS-232 does not.  I have no idea how
much the fee is, but it might have a significant impact on a relatively
low volume product like the K3.  


- Jim, KL7CC



Bob wrote:
> What was the rationale behind a cutting edge (2007-08) product such as the
> Elecraft K3 being supplied with a RS232 interface in stead of a USB port?
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[KK7P]

> What was the rationale behind a cutting edge (2007-08) product such as the
> Elecraft K3 being supplied with a RS232 interface in stead of a USB port?

There were several considerations:

1) Many of our customers have older computers with RS232 ports and not
USB ports.

2) USB -> RS232 adapters are readily available and inexpensive.

3) We didn't want to get into the USB driver support business. We'd
rather let the companies that make USB -> RS232 products have all that
fun :-)

> If eventually
> they do change to a USB direct port, will this be a retro fit for existing
> radios?

Yes.

The K3 design is modular, and the digital I/O board has been designed to
be replaceable with a USB-based board if we decide to offer one in the
future. Or an Ethernet-based interface, or...

73,

Lyle KK7P


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[Julian, G4ILO]

One rationale is probably that RS-232 is still a widely recognized
standard that is also very simple to implement on any computer,
whereas USB would require the development of complex drivers that
would make it even less likely that Linux or Mac users will be
supported than is currently the case. I have a MixW RigExpert and
there are no drivers available for that, except for Windows.

It's easy to interface RS-232 to all kinds of things whereas if the K3
had a USB port on the back, we'd be pretty well stuck with whatever
Elecraft chose to provide.
--
Julian, G4ILO K2 s/n: 392  K3 s/n: ???
G4ILO's Shack: www.g4ilo.com
Zerobeat Ham Forums: www.zerobeat.net/smf


On Nov 19, 2007 7:39 PM, Bob <[hidden email]> wrote:
> What was the rationale behind a cutting edge (2007-08) product such as the
> Elecraft K3 being supplied with a RS232 interface in stead of a USB port? I
> think it was 5 computers ago the last I saw the 9 pin RS2323. If eventually
> they do change to a USB direct port, will this be a retro fit for existing
> radios?
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[Mike B-12]

> What was the rationale behind a cutting edge (2007-08) product such as the
> Elecraft K3 being supplied with a RS232 interface in stead of a USB port?

When I built my current PC a year ago, I specifically looked for a motherboard
with a serial port. There are still a variety of products out there that use it,
despite what major PC manufacturers want you to believe.

If you're lacking a serial port, one can either purchase a serial port card for
under $20 (check http://www.newegg.com as one low price source) if you have a
desktop machine, or get a serial-USB adapter for a little more.

73,

Mike
KW1ND
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[Doug Faunt N6TQS [phone]]

There are still people put there using DOS logging programs, too.
They wouldn't have USB support in that mode.

73, doug

   Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 12:10:20 -0800
   From: Lyle Johnson <[hidden email]>

   > What was the rationale behind a cutting edge (2007-08) product such as the
   > Elecraft K3 being supplied with a RS232 interface in stead of a USB port?

   There were several considerations:

   1) Many of our customers have older computers with RS232 ports and not
   USB ports.

   2) USB -> RS232 adapters are readily available and inexpensive.

   3) We didn't want to get into the USB driver support business. We'd
   rather let the companies that make USB -> RS232 products have all that
   fun :-)

   > If eventually
   > they do change to a USB direct port, will this be a retro fit for existing
   > radios?

   Yes.

   The K3 design is modular, and the digital I/O board has been designed to
   be replaceable with a USB-based board if we decide to offer one in the
   future. Or an Ethernet-based interface, or...

   73,

   Lyle KK7P

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[Phil Kane-2]

On Mon, 19 Nov 2007 14:39:12 -0500, Bob wrote:

> What was the rationale behind a cutting edge (2007-08) product
> such as the Elecraft K3 being supplied with a RS232 interface in
> stead of a USB port? I think it was 5 computers ago the last I
> saw the 9 pin RS2323. If eventually they do change to a USB
> direct port, will this be a retro fit for existing radios?

  I have NINE RS-232 ports on my main computer (some through
  USB-to-RS232 adapters) to drive the assortment of TNCs and
  remote controlled radios that have "native" RS-232 ports to
  talk to the outside world - including my K2/100.

  They work just fine.

--
   73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
   Elecraft K2/100   s/n 5402



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[Phil Kane-2]

On Mon, 19 Nov 2007 15:40:40 -0500 (EST), Doug Faunt N6TQS [phone]
wrote:

>There are still people put there using DOS logging programs, too.
>They wouldn't have USB support in that mode.

  That's always a problem.  The program that I use for TNC
  operation - PKGold - is a DOS program that requires a genuine
  RS-232 port.  Ports obtained through expansion cards or modules
  won't work - I've tried.

  I wanted to use an iMic USB soundcard adapter on a Win2K
  machine. Guess what?  The manufacturer said that it will only
  work on an XP machine because there's no W2K driver.

  There went my dreams of using my K2/100 for HF data modes using
  the Win2K machine.

  And so it goes.

--
   73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
   Elecraft K2/100   s/n 5402



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[k6dgw]

Doug Faunt N6TQS [phone] wrote:
> There are still people put there using DOS logging programs, too.
> They wouldn't have USB support in that mode.
>

I'm one of them [486/33 our son used years ago in college + TRLog].
"Latest" isn't always "Greatest."  All USB<==>RS232 adapters are not
created equal either.  I finally found one that will work with WriteLog
on my laptop for RTTY contests, but it took 3 tries.  I'll gladly trade
either or both of the other ones for a spot in the K3 line :-)

73,

Fred K6DGW
- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the 2008 Cal QSO Party  4-5 Oct 08
- www.cqp.org
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[Doug Faunt N6TQS [phone]]

USB-to-RS232 adapters can show up problems- even Elecraft has had that
problem show up with firmware download on some computers (my laptop
being one of those).  It's fixed now, of course.

I was able to update using a real serial port (PCMCIA card) on that
same computer, no problem.

It's often fun being on the bleeding edge.

73, doug

   From: "Phil Kane" <[hidden email]>
   Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 14:31:53 -0800

   On Mon, 19 Nov 2007 14:39:12 -0500, Bob wrote:

   > What was the rationale behind a cutting edge (2007-08) product
   > such as the Elecraft K3 being supplied with a RS232 interface in
   > stead of a USB port? I think it was 5 computers ago the last I
   > saw the 9 pin RS2323. If eventually they do change to a USB
   > direct port, will this be a retro fit for existing radios?

     I have NINE RS-232 ports on my main computer (some through
     USB-to-RS232 adapters) to drive the assortment of TNCs and
     remote controlled radios that have "native" RS-232 ports to
     talk to the outside world - including my K2/100.

     They work just fine.

   --
      73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
      Elecraft K2/100   s/n 5402



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[David Woolley (E.L)]

Matt Zilmer wrote:

> A somewhat useful answer is that many hams use downrev computers. This
> seems to be because they spend a lot of $ on radio equipment.

It's also human scale technology.  You can interface to it with simple
hardware, and sometimes don't even need software.  Software to handle
simply asychrononous interfaces is trivial, even on bare hardware.  That
makes it good for a market where people build their own equipment.  (USB
2.0, in particular, needs very good RF layout for hardware.)

The lack of serial ports in modern systems is also becoming a problem
for people who want accurate time, because USB serial ports make a mess
of the timing of the data, and people running the Network Time Protocol
with GPS, etc., receivers, are generally advised to seek direct serial
ports.

The lack of lock in to operating systems which support the drivers has
also been mentioned.
>
--
David Woolley
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