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Shack Equipment Storage

There is a difference between stupidity and ignorance. I claim ignorance.

My shack is a room in a barn attic space, separate from the house, no HVAC so cooling is one window and heating is a space heater (when I am working the waves). Otherwise storage is ambient temp in the room. Winter temps typically down to low 20s, summer up to 90s. Sunny summer temp in the shack gets up to 120. My concerns are leaving the KX2 (#3007) and KXPA100 (#2802) in the shack and the effects of daily cycling the temp, especially in winter. My “internet research” (maybe an oxymoron?) has such varied opinions it is worthless. What say you, my fellow Elecraft faithful?

Keeping Watch-
shu
Joe Shuman, NZ8P

Unless someone like you
cares a whole awful lot,
nothing is going to get better.
It’s not. -Dr. Seuss
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Elecraft mailing list

Re: Shack Equipment Storage

My gut feel says typical steady indoor condx would be better, but I've had some rigs in a commercial storage unit for a number of years with no heating/cooling and CO ambient temps. I'm sure it got significantly over 100F in there during the summer and likely into the single digits F in the winter. The rigs are still working FB, including 20 yo K2 and K1. I kept a FT1000MP in an uninsulated attic for a few years and I'm sure it got to well over 100F in there. It's still FB too.

In some situations with higher humidity, daily temp variations can lead to condensing conditions, which I don't think would be good. I ran into that in my New England garage, but didn't keep any ham gear in there.
On Wednesday, January 27, 2021, 8:20:47 AM MST, Joseph Shuman via Elecraft <[hidden email]> wrote:

There is a difference between stupidity and ignorance. I claim ignorance.

My shack is a room in a barn attic space, separate from the house, no HVAC so cooling is one window and heating is a space heater (when I am working the waves). Otherwise storage is ambient temp in the room. Winter temps typically down to low 20s, summer up to 90s. Sunny summer temp in the shack gets up to 120. My concerns are leaving the KX2 (#3007) and KXPA100 (#2802) in the shack and the effects of daily cycling the temp, especially in winter. My “internet research” (maybe an oxymoron?) has such varied opinions it is worthless. What say you, my fellow Elecraft faithful?

Keeping Watch-
shu
Joe Shuman, NZ8P

Unless someone like you
cares a whole awful lot,
nothing is going to get better.
It’s not. -Dr. Seuss
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David Olean

Re: Shack Equipment Storage

In reply to this post by Elecraft mailing list

I would worry about condensation. I live in New England. New England is
the only part of the country except for the coastline in WA, where there
is a positive water budget typically. In other words, more rain falls
than is evaporated or used up. My ham shack is 1/2 mile from my house
and was unheated. It was hard on the equipment. Very hot wx was not a
problem but cold temps and then the arrival of warmer and moist air
would produce water droplets all over the gear. Transformers would stay
very cold and the water would drip off of them when the temps warmed a
little bit. Anything that used high voltage was subject to explosions
if you were foolhardy to turn them on. It was all due to the water.

What I did was install a propane heater with a special thermostat that
allowed operation down to 32 degrees. I set the temp to around 40 F.
That keeps most of the condensation at bay. I also put in a solar heater
on a south facing outside wall, and it pumps warmer air inside if the
Sun is out. On a sunny winter day in January it will be 50 degrees in
the room during the day. I have had no trouble with this setup. I am
just about through with my 1st 100 lb propane tank and January is just
about finished, so the cost is not too bad. You must use a vented
propane heater. The unvented ones, or portable K1 space heaters like
Kerosuns etc all produce water vapor and are no good for what we want.
Maybe in a desert climate things will be different, but that is what
works for me.

I have an unheated room as well, but only keep rugged stuff there in
winter. Homebrew KW amps etc seem to do OK. I would never leave a KX
anything there however. Been there. Done that!

K1WHS

On 1/27/2021 10:18 AM, Joseph Shuman via Elecraft wrote:

> There is a difference between stupidity and ignorance. I claim ignorance.
>
> My shack is a room in a barn attic space, separate from the house, no HVAC so cooling is one window and heating is a space heater (when I am working the waves). Otherwise storage is ambient temp in the room. Winter temps typically down to low 20s, summer up to 90s. Sunny summer temp in the shack gets up to 120. My concerns are leaving the KX2 (#3007) and KXPA100 (#2802) in the shack and the effects of daily cycling the temp, especially in winter. My “internet research” (maybe an oxymoron?) has such varied opinions it is worthless. What say you, my fellow Elecraft faithful?
>
> Keeping Watch-
> shu
> Joe Shuman, NZ8P
>
> Unless someone like you
> cares a whole awful lot,
> nothing is going to get better.
> It’s not. -Dr. Seuss
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

Alan - G4GNX

Re: Shack Equipment Storage

In reply to this post by Elecraft mailing list

My shack is in the attic of a single storey building in the UK. I have a
similar setup with a roof window for ventilation and light. It can get
up to 104 degrees in Summer, even with a small evaporative air
conditioner in use. It doesn't normally get too cold in Winter because
the room's fed by part of the main heating system.

I leave a PC, network server, network hub and phone charger running
24/7. My K3, KPA500, KAT500, IC-9700, IC-7100 and a Wouxun multi-band
plus all PSUs, rotator controllers, monitor screens stay there
permanently (all switched off) and are turned on and used as necessary,
several times a week. I have had no issues so far. ;-)

BTW any would-be burglars reading this, don't bother - we have a very
good security system, linked to the Police. :-D

73,

Alan. G4GNX

------ Original Message ------
From: "Joseph Shuman via Elecraft" <[hidden email]>
To: "Elecraft Mail Server" <[hidden email]>
Sent: 27/01/2021 15:18:04
Subject: [Elecraft] Shack Equipment Storage

>There is a difference between stupidity and ignorance. I claim ignorance.
>
>My shack is a room in a barn attic space, separate from the house, no HVAC so cooling is one window and heating is a space heater (when I am working the waves). Otherwise storage is ambient temp in the room. Winter temps typically down to low 20s, summer up to 90s. Sunny summer temp in the shack gets up to 120. My concerns are leaving the KX2 (#3007) and KXPA100 (#2802) in the shack and the effects of daily cycling the temp, especially in winter. My “internet research” (maybe an oxymoron?) has such varied opinions it is worthless. What say you, my fellow Elecraft faithful?
>
>Keeping Watch-
>shu
>Joe Shuman, NZ8P
>

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George Thornton

Re: Shack Equipment Storage

In reply to this post by David Olean

Wet is much more of a problem with electronic equipment than 100 plus degree heat.

I live in Western Washington, my locality has about the same total rainfall as the middle east coast states but we rarely have downpours. It just drizzles and mists all the time.

I have owned boats in this climate and I know proximity to water greatly magnifies the problem. Electrical connections corrode quickly in a damp marine environment. I used to have to go through my boat wiring system and clean contacts annually to keep the lights functioning.

A small heat source does wonders to lower humidity. Even an incandescent lightbulb can help in small spaces. Just running your radio generates heat that dissipates humidity within the radio..

I have a wood shop in an unheated garage. I have to keep a heat source in there in the winter to keep the tools dry, otherwise my tools will rust away.

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of David Olean
Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2021 9:42 AM
To: Joseph Shuman <[hidden email]>; Elecraft Mail Server <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Shack Equipment Storage

I would worry about condensation. I live in New England. New England is the only part of the country except for the coastline in WA, where there is a positive water budget typically. In other words, more rain falls than is evaporated or used up. My ham shack is 1/2 mile from my house and was unheated. It was hard on the equipment. Very hot wx was not a problem but cold temps and then the arrival of warmer and moist air would produce water droplets all over the gear. Transformers would stay very cold and the water would drip off of them when the temps warmed a little bit. Anything that used high voltage was subject to explosions if you were foolhardy to turn them on. It was all due to the water.

What I did was install a propane heater with a special thermostat that allowed operation down to 32 degrees. I set the temp to around 40 F. That keeps most of the condensation at bay. I also put in a solar heater on a south facing outside wall, and it pumps warmer air inside if the Sun is out. On a sunny winter day in January it will be 50 degrees in the room during the day. I have had no trouble with this setup. I am just about through with my 1st 100 lb propane tank and January is just about finished, so the cost is not too bad. You must use a vented propane heater. The unvented ones, or portable K1 space heaters like Kerosuns etc all produce water vapor and are no good for what we want. Maybe in a desert climate things will be different, but that is what works for me.

I have an unheated room as well, but only keep rugged stuff there in winter. Homebrew KW amps etc seem to do OK. I would never leave a KX anything there however. Been there. Done that!

K1WHS

On 1/27/2021 10:18 AM, Joseph Shuman via Elecraft wrote:

> There is a difference between stupidity and ignorance. I claim ignorance.
>
> My shack is a room in a barn attic space, separate from the house, no HVAC so cooling is one window and heating is a space heater (when I am working the waves). Otherwise storage is ambient temp in the room. Winter temps typically down to low 20s, summer up to 90s. Sunny summer temp in the shack gets up to 120. My concerns are leaving the KX2 (#3007) and KXPA100 (#2802) in the shack and the effects of daily cycling the temp, especially in winter. My “internet research” (maybe an oxymoron?) has such varied opinions it is worthless. What say you, my fellow Elecraft faithful?
>
> Keeping Watch-
> shu
> Joe Shuman, NZ8P
>
> Unless someone like you
> cares a whole awful lot,
> nothing is going to get better.
> It’s not. -Dr. Seuss
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email
> list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to
> [hidden email]

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Dennis Moore

Re: Shack Equipment Storage

In reply to this post by Elecraft mailing list

I think what's getting overlooked in many of the replies is the effect
of the repeated expansion/contraction cycles of daily operation on the
equipment. I'm not discounting the comments about moisture, but this is
how we get socketed components slowly working their way out. You might
want to open things up occasionally and make sure things are still
seated, cables still fully connected etc. This will happen much more
frequently in cold winters than in warm summers.

73, Dennis NJ6G

On 1/27/2021 07:18, Joseph Shuman via Elecraft wrote:

David Haines

Re: Shack Equipment Storage

In reply to this post by David Olean

David is right on all counts, from my experience. Anybody with an
unheated workshop here in Maine knows the problem of a mild spell
causing water to condense on a tractor that has been sitting in a 10
degree F. barn. One answer is never to let your equipment get too cold,
hence a heater, maybe even a heating pad under the K3? Another is to use
a vapor barrier to keep the moisture out of the shack? Maybe keep the
equipment in an airtight chest? This can get complicated and depends
very much on local conditions, but deserves attention.

Another david
KC1DNY

On 1/27/2021 12:42 PM, David Olean wrote:

> I would worry about condensation. I live in New England. New England
> is the only part of the country except for the coastline in WA, where
> there is a positive water budget typically. In other words, more rain
> falls than is evaporated or used up. My ham shack is 1/2 mile from my
> house and was unheated. It was hard on the equipment. Very hot wx was
> not a problem but cold temps and then the arrival of warmer and moist
> air would produce water droplets all over the gear. Transformers
> would stay very cold and the water would drip off of them when the
> temps warmed a little bit. Anything that used high voltage was subject
> to explosions if you were foolhardy to turn them on. It was all due to
> the water.
>
> What I did was install a propane heater with a special thermostat that
> allowed operation down to 32 degrees. I set the temp to around 40 F.
> That keeps most of the condensation at bay. I also put in a solar
> heater on a south facing outside wall, and it pumps warmer air inside
> if the Sun is out. On a sunny winter day in January it will be 50
> degrees in the room during the day. I have had no trouble with this
> setup. I am just about through with my 1st 100 lb propane tank and
> January is just about finished, so the cost is not too bad. You must
> use a vented propane heater. The unvented ones, or portable K1 space
> heaters like Kerosuns etc all produce water vapor and are no good for
> what we want. Maybe in a desert climate things will be different,
> but that is what works for me.
>
> I have an unheated room as well, but only keep rugged stuff there in
> winter. Homebrew KW amps etc seem to do OK. I would never leave a KX
> anything there however. Been there. Done that!
>
> K1WHS
>
> On 1/27/2021 10:18 AM, Joseph Shuman via Elecraft wrote:
>> There is a difference between stupidity and ignorance. I claim
>> ignorance.
>>
>> My shack is a room in a barn attic space, separate from the house, no
>> HVAC so cooling is one window and heating is a space heater (when I
>> am working the waves). Otherwise storage is ambient temp in the
>> room. Winter temps typically down to low 20s, summer up to 90s.
>> Sunny summer temp in the shack gets up to 120. My concerns are
>> leaving the KX2 (#3007) and KXPA100 (#2802) in the shack and the
>> effects of daily cycling the temp, especially in winter. My
>> “internet research” (maybe an oxymoron?) has such varied opinions it
>> is worthless. What say you, my fellow Elecraft faithful?
>>
>> Keeping Watch-
>> shu
>> Joe Shuman, NZ8P
>>
>> Unless someone like you
>> cares a whole awful lot,
>> nothing is going to get better.
>> It’s not. -Dr. Seuss
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

Rich NE1EE-2

Re: Shack Equipment Storage

In reply to this post by David Olean

On 2021-01-27 12:42:-0500, David Olean wrote:

>I would worry about condensation. I live in New England. New England

I too live in NE, and I used a dehumidifier. That got me two things: the RH lowered, and the residual heat dumped to the space. It was pretty warm, and I set the machine to 40%. Otherwise, I don't recommend using such a space for the reasons others have mentioned.

~R~
72/73 de Rich NE1EE
The Dusty Key
On the banks of the Piscataqua

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Josh Fiden

Re: Shack Equipment Storage

In reply to this post by David Olean

These barn thermostats are inexpensive. I have one running an oil filled electric heater so shack doesn’t drop below 50F when not in use. Keeps gear from getting so cold there’s condensation when it warms during the day.

https://www.qcsupply.com/10004-peco-thermostat-tf115.html

No endorsement of this vendor, first listing I found for my thermostat.

73,
Josh W6XU

Sent from my iPad

> On Jan 27, 2021, at 9:42 AM, David Olean <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
<snip>
> I would worry about condensation......
>
> What I did was install a propane heater with a special thermostat that allowed operation down to 32 degrees. I set the temp to around 40 F. That keeps most of the condensation at bay.
>
>
>
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