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SideKar vs PX3

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Stephen Shearer

SideKar vs PX3

I am looking at purchasing a QRPworks SideKar display and USB keyboard
terminal to use with my KX3. I guess I have given up waiting for the
keyboard for the PX3. Does anyone have experience with the QRPworks
products and in particular, the SideKar? I like the idea of macros and
messages that allow for serial numbers. I am not sure about logging as
paper seems fine, but a data file would make it easy to enter contacts
into LoTW. My K1EL K42 CW Keyboard also "does" serial numbers and can
embed the callers callsign into the message. I CAN use the K1EL
keyboard for CW but it won't work for PSK31 or RTTY with the KX3 using a
key input as the KX3 only will do PSK31/RTTY with a paddle (why not
keyer generated input?). Since I want to do PSK31 with a keyboard, I
may be "stuck" with a SideKar without the ability of the PX3 to handle a
keyboard (and serial numbers)...
What are others using for PSK31 portable (no computer) with your KX3?

73, steve WB3LGC
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Ken Alexander-2

Re: SideKar vs PX3

Interesting, I just ordered a KX3 and PX3 yesterday! I didn't realize that there were provisions to plug a keyboard into a PX3, or is this a future thing?

I visited the QRPworks website and their products were one of the reasons why I chose the KX3/PX3 over an Anan-10. If Elecraft is planning to provide for the addition of a keyboard then I'm even happier about my decision.

73,

Ken Alexander
VE3HLS

--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 7/29/15, steve <[hidden email]> wrote:

Subject: [Elecraft] SideKar vs PX3
To: "ELECRAFT reflector" <[hidden email]>
Date: Wednesday, July 29, 2015, 8:33 AM

I am looking at purchasing a QRPworks
SideKar display and USB keyboard
terminal to use with my KX3. I guess I have given up
waiting for the
keyboard for the PX3. Does anyone have experience with
the QRPworks
products and in particular, the SideKar? I like the
idea of macros and
messages that allow for serial numbers. I am not sure
about logging as
paper seems fine, but a data file would make it easy to
enter contacts
into LoTW. My K1EL K42 CW Keyboard also
"does" serial numbers and can
embed the callers callsign into the message. I CAN use
the K1EL
keyboard for CW but it won't work for PSK31 or RTTY with the
KX3 using a
key input as the KX3 only will do PSK31/RTTY with a paddle
(why not
keyer generated input?). Since I want to do PSK31 with
a keyboard, I
may be "stuck" with a SideKar without the ability of the PX3
to handle a
keyboard (and serial numbers)...
What are others using for PSK31 portable (no computer) with
your KX3?

73, steve WB3LGC
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ve3ibw

Re: SideKar vs PX3

In reply to this post by Stephen Shearer

Warning - long response

One thing I have found on my quest to have a portable station is a portable
computer, screen, and keyboard. My premise is that the kx3 may not be
ready for a complete psk31 solution with either the px3 or the sidekar.
I'll come back to this quest in a moment.

At present, it doesn't seem that the kx3 applies afc to incoming digital
transmissions, like psk31. Keeping a frequency lock on psk31 signals tends
to require multiple presses of the cwt button during a qso to instruct the
kx3 to re-tune to a psk31 signal. You will miss portions of the
transmission because of this. I don't believe this variance can be
corrected by the kx3 as these variances may be at the other ham's
transmission end or due to atmospheric conditions. I believe that to
really get the most out of psk31, you need afc at the receiver end. The
kx3 doesn't have it. My premise is that unless the kx3 has afc, using the
internal psk decoder is for emergency purposes and having some fun. More
frequent amd fulfilling psk operations will, at this time, need to be with
an external program. I am open to other view points, but I find the kx3
and any associated programs that help you access the onboard digital
features lacks afc, usability, and agility one needs when operating psk31.

I tried various programs to reach the nirvana I enjoy on my main shack
computer and other digital programs (e.g., fldigi, dm780). I found an
application that is OK, but the program needs usability enhancements and
it seems the author has gone quiet on new features and improvements. The
program is PSKer on an iPad. It has the afc feature. This helps greatly.
It has macros, but even these as not as flexible as programs like fldigi.
If you are used to selecting the call sign of a potential qso from the
receive decode window, you won't be able to do it. Search and pounce is
much harder to do when you have to take the time to remember a call sign
and type it into another field while the receive window is scrolling.
Fldigi and dm780 will allow a quick click of the mouse and the call sign is
ready to be used in any macro that references this field.

Now let's turn to the question about the USB port on the px3 and the
connection of a keyboard. I contend that unless the kx3 adds more psk
features like those of the mainstream programs found on various platforms,
the addition of a keyboard for psk qso's as decoded by the kx3 may not be
useful. I actually don't like my premise as I was excited too about the
possibility of a keyboard attached to thw px3. But what would I use it
for? The aforementioned usability concerns and lack of afc in the kx3
doesn't provide me with the utility I thought I was going to get from the
kx3/px3 combo. If there is another use for a keyboard that I have missed,
I would love to hear it.

My first setup I use for psk is psker, iPad air, apple Bluetooth keyboard
and I connect the kx3 to the iPad using an apple camera adapter
(essentially a lightning based usb port) and a griffin iMic. Actually any
USB sound card will likely be OK for psk. Why a Bluetooth keyboard? The
iPad keyboard obscures almost half of the screen. Not very good when you
are trying to remember a call sign to type into a field that you can't even
see when the pop up keyboard displays. Consequently, an external keyboard
is essential. Tablet Application developers for our ham apps are not
creating apps that are usable on tablets when the onscreen keyboard pops
up. By the way, PSKer can only do psk31.

The second computer setup I am working on is a little more work, but I am
hopeful will be more usable with the programs I love to use (fldigi). It
is a raspberry pi2, wireless adapter for the pi, iPad air, apple bluetooth
keyboard and kx3. The difference is that I use the iPad as a screen for
the pi via vnc. I use the ipad touch screen as the mouse. I connect the
ipad to the pi using an ad hoc wireless connection. I connect the griffin
imic to the pi instead of the ipad. The pi operates on just over an amp
hour and can run off of a mophie spare battery pack for a few hours. I am
working up to more serious portable power in the future and recent
conversations on this reflector have been very helpful. With this setup, I
have access to many more digital modes and afc. I can also use my macros
from the main shack computer for field day or contest operations. My
initial work has met with success and so far this second portable computer
setup is much more usable. But, a challenge is that you will need to know
about Linux and setting up wireless networks. Not the easiest thing on the
pi, but with Google and a little patience, it is possible.

I think even the sidekar may not meet your digital needs. I am sure the
sidekar does more and my apologies to the designers if I have under
represented it's capabilites. I saw the sidekar at Dayton in 2014 and
wondered why I would need it over a px3, especially with the px3 firmware
upgrade that provided two lines of decode text on the px3 screen. The
sidekar is not a general purpose computer and therefore is limited in its
usability. How would you capture a call sign from the receive window to
respond to a cq? Where would you store this call sign in either the kx3 or
the sidekar? Usability and adaptability during digital qsos is necessary
in order to keep up with those hams that are working in a much more
productive environment.

I am sure there are others who have different setups and experiences to
mine. I am interested to hear about them as is Steve.

Regards
Brian
VE3IBW
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Regards,
Brian
VE3IBW

Stephen Shearer

Re: SideKar vs PX3

Brian,
Thank you for the comments.
I do use fldigi.
Yes, PSK31 is difficult to tune and partly because of the lack of AFC in
the kX3, as you reminded me (why... KX3 tuning is difficult).
The PX3 does make it easier to tune provided the sending station isn't
drifting.
RTTY seems easier to tune - I guess because of its wider bandwidth.
I think because I want portable PSK31/RTTY to be fun (not frustrating),
I need to think about using Fldigi portable with a small/mini laptop
(solid state "disk").
I guess I will also think more about how I am going to "do" the little
bit of CW as the decoder works well (not great). I am going to give CW
via KX3 decoder a try this weekend with the NAQP.
Yes, I think even with the HCT/SideKar you need to save the call. It
does have a memory location to allow the call to be sent as part of a macro.
I don't see anything in the manual about logging using the memory
location to fill the log callsign... I'll ask/look.

thank you for your thought provoking input. 73, steve WB3LGC

On 29-Jul-15 6:10 PM, Brian Waterworth wrote:

> Warning - long response
>
> One thing I have found on my quest to have a portable station is a portable
> computer, screen, and keyboard. My premise is that the kx3 may not be
> ready for a complete psk31 solution with either the px3 or the sidekar.
> I'll come back to this quest in a moment.
>
> At present, it doesn't seem that the kx3 applies afc to incoming digital
> transmissions, like psk31. ... My premise is that unless the kx3 has afc, using the
> internal psk decoder is for emergency purposes and having some fun. ...

> ... Search and pounce is
> much harder to do when you have to take the time to remember a call sign
> and type it into another field while the receive window is scrolling.
> Fldigi and dm780 will allow a quick click of the mouse and the call sign is
> ready to be used in any macro that references this field.
>
> Now let's turn to the question about the USB port on the px3 and the
> connection of a keyboard. I contend that unless the kx3 adds more psk
> features like those of the mainstream programs found on various platforms,
> the addition of a keyboard for psk qso's as decoded by the kx3 may not be
> useful. I actually don't like my premise as I was excited too about the
> possibility of a keyboard attached to thw px3. But what would I use it
> for? The aforementioned usability concerns and lack of afc in the kx3
> doesn't provide me with the utility I thought I was going to get from the
> kx3/px3 combo. If there is another use for a keyboard that I have missed,
> I would love to hear it.
>
> ...

...

> *I think even the sidekar may not meet your digital needs. I am sure
> the sidekar does more and my apologies to the designers if I have
> under represented it's capabilites. I saw the sidekar at Dayton in
> 2014 and wondered why I would need it over a px3, especially with the
> px3 firmware upgrade that provided two lines of decode text on the px3
> screen. The sidekar is not a general purpose computer and therefore is
> limited in its usability. How would you capture a call sign from the
> receive window to respond to a cq? Where would you store this call
> sign in either the kx3 or the sidekar? Usability and adaptability
> during digital qsos is necessary in order to keep up with those hams
> that are working in a much more productive environment.*
>
> I am sure there are others who have different setups and experiences to
> mine. I am interested to hear about them as is Steve.
>
> Regards
> Brian
> VE3IBW
>

alsopb

Re: SideKar vs PX3

It seems this dilemma can be solved by something like a 10" screen
WINDOWs laptop. You get display, keyboard, the ability to run FLDIGI.
They probably run on batteries as long as the rig et al. A few years ago
I had an ACER aspire 1 (?). It ran everything I tried including sound
card stuff.

73 de Brian/K3KO
On 7/30/2015 12:08 PM, steve wrote:

> Brian,
> Thank you for the comments.
> I do use fldigi.
> Yes, PSK31 is difficult to tune and partly because of the lack of AFC
> in the kX3, as you reminded me (why... KX3 tuning is difficult).
> The PX3 does make it easier to tune provided the sending station isn't
> drifting.
> RTTY seems easier to tune - I guess because of its wider bandwidth.
> I think because I want portable PSK31/RTTY to be fun (not
> frustrating), I need to think about using Fldigi portable with a
> small/mini laptop (solid state "disk").
> I guess I will also think more about how I am going to "do" the little
> bit of CW as the decoder works well (not great). I am going to give
> CW via KX3 decoder a try this weekend with the NAQP.
> Yes, I think even with the HCT/SideKar you need to save the call. It
> does have a memory location to allow the call to be sent as part of a
> macro.
> I don't see anything in the manual about logging using the memory
> location to fill the log callsign... I'll ask/look.
>
> thank you for your thought provoking input. 73, steve WB3LGC
>
>
> On 29-Jul-15 6:10 PM, Brian Waterworth wrote:
>> Warning - long response
>>
>> One thing I have found on my quest to have a portable station is a
>> portable
>> computer, screen, and keyboard. My premise is that the kx3 may not be
>> ready for a complete psk31 solution with either the px3 or the sidekar.
>> I'll come back to this quest in a moment.
>>
>> At present, it doesn't seem that the kx3 applies afc to incoming digital
>> transmissions, like psk31. ... My premise is that unless the kx3
>> has afc, using the
>> internal psk decoder is for emergency purposes and having some fun. ...
>
>> ... Search and pounce is
>> much harder to do when you have to take the time to remember a call sign
>> and type it into another field while the receive window is scrolling.
>> Fldigi and dm780 will allow a quick click of the mouse and the call
>> sign is
>> ready to be used in any macro that references this field.
>>
>> Now let's turn to the question about the USB port on the px3 and the
>> connection of a keyboard. I contend that unless the kx3 adds more psk
>> features like those of the mainstream programs found on various
>> platforms,
>> the addition of a keyboard for psk qso's as decoded by the kx3 may
>> not be
>> useful. I actually don't like my premise as I was excited too about the
>> possibility of a keyboard attached to thw px3. But what would I use it
>> for? The aforementioned usability concerns and lack of afc in the kx3
>> doesn't provide me with the utility I thought I was going to get from
>> the
>> kx3/px3 combo. If there is another use for a keyboard that I have
>> missed,
>> I would love to hear it.
>>
>> ...
> ...
>
>> *I think even the sidekar may not meet your digital needs. I am sure
>> the sidekar does more and my apologies to the designers if I have
>> under represented it's capabilites. I saw the sidekar at Dayton in
>> 2014 and wondered why I would need it over a px3, especially with the
>> px3 firmware upgrade that provided two lines of decode text on the
>> px3 screen. The sidekar is not a general purpose computer and
>> therefore is limited in its usability. How would you capture a call
>> sign from the receive window to respond to a cq? Where would you
>> store this call sign in either the kx3 or the sidekar? Usability and
>> adaptability during digital qsos is necessary in order to keep up
>> with those hams that are working in a much more productive environment.*
>>
>> I am sure there are others who have different setups and experiences to
>> mine. I am interested to hear about them as is Steve.
>>
>> Regards
>> Brian
>> VE3IBW
>>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2015.0.6086 / Virus Database: 4401/10337 - Release Date:
> 07/30/15
>
>

alsopb

Re: SideKar vs PX3 More

In reply to this post by Stephen Shearer

It seems this dilemma can be solved by something like a 10" screen
WINDOWs laptop. You get display, keyboard, the ability to run FLDIGI.
They probably run on batteries as long as the rig et al. A few years ago
I had an ACER aspire 1 (?). It ran everything I tried including sound
card stuff.

Here is one for about $125.

http://www.amazon.com/Acer-AOA150-1447-8-9-Inch-Processor-Sapphire/dp/B001EYV9TM

73 de Brian/K3KO

On 7/30/2015 12:08 PM, steve wrote:

Al Gulseth-2

Re: SideKar vs PX3

In reply to this post by alsopb

"WINDOWs"? A while back I picked up a used Toshiba NB-205 (10" screen, 1.6G
Atom processor, 1G RAM, 160G HD, XP Home, extended run battery) for a lot
less than a new netbook would cost. Since MS no longer supports XP I reloaded
it with Debian Linux. It runs very well with a lightweight desktop
environment like LXDE or XFCE and can be configured to look/feel very much
like XP or Win 7. (I also have Linux installed on my XYL's desktop system,
and she flips back and forth between it and her Windows system at work with
very few problems. Note that by her own admission she's not
particularly "tech savvy.")

FLDIGI is in the Debian 8.1 repository and is also available for Ubuntu and
other Linux distributions. Here's the beauty of it: if you want to try FLDIGI
under Linux, download the install image, put it on a USB stick per the
instructions, and set it up on your system. If you have enough disk space
re-size the Windows partition and go dual boot. Then, if you don't like
Linux, remove the Linux installation: all you're out is your time and effort.

73, Al

On Thu July 30 2015 7:34:15 am brian wrote:

> It seems this dilemma can be solved by something like a 10" screen
> WINDOWs laptop. You get display, keyboard, the ability to run FLDIGI.
> They probably run on batteries as long as the rig et al. A few years ago
> I had an ACER aspire 1 (?). It ran everything I tried including sound
> card stuff.
>
> 73 de Brian/K3KO
>
> On 7/30/2015 12:08 PM, steve wrote:
> > Brian,
> > Thank you for the comments.
> > I do use fldigi.
> > Yes, PSK31 is difficult to tune and partly because of the lack of AFC
> > in the kX3, as you reminded me (why... KX3 tuning is difficult).
> > The PX3 does make it easier to tune provided the sending station isn't
> > drifting.
> > RTTY seems easier to tune - I guess because of its wider bandwidth.
> > I think because I want portable PSK31/RTTY to be fun (not
> > frustrating), I need to think about using Fldigi portable with a
> > small/mini laptop (solid state "disk").
> > I guess I will also think more about how I am going to "do" the little
> > bit of CW as the decoder works well (not great). I am going to give
> > CW via KX3 decoder a try this weekend with the NAQP.
> > Yes, I think even with the HCT/SideKar you need to save the call. It
> > does have a memory location to allow the call to be sent as part of a
> > macro.
> > I don't see anything in the manual about logging using the memory
> > location to fill the log callsign... I'll ask/look.
> >
> > thank you for your thought provoking input. 73, steve WB3LGC
> >
> > On 29-Jul-15 6:10 PM, Brian Waterworth wrote:
> >> Warning - long response
> >>
> >> One thing I have found on my quest to have a portable station is a
> >> portable
> >> computer, screen, and keyboard. My premise is that the kx3 may not be
> >> ready for a complete psk31 solution with either the px3 or the sidekar.
> >> I'll come back to this quest in a moment.
> >>
> >> At present, it doesn't seem that the kx3 applies afc to incoming digital
> >> transmissions, like psk31. ... My premise is that unless the kx3
> >> has afc, using the
> >> internal psk decoder is for emergency purposes and having some fun. ...
> >>
> >> ... Search and pounce is
> >> much harder to do when you have to take the time to remember a call sign
> >> and type it into another field while the receive window is scrolling.
> >> Fldigi and dm780 will allow a quick click of the mouse and the call
> >> sign is
> >> ready to be used in any macro that references this field.
> >>
> >> Now let's turn to the question about the USB port on the px3 and the
> >> connection of a keyboard. I contend that unless the kx3 adds more psk
> >> features like those of the mainstream programs found on various
> >> platforms,
> >> the addition of a keyboard for psk qso's as decoded by the kx3 may
> >> not be
> >> useful. I actually don't like my premise as I was excited too about the
> >> possibility of a keyboard attached to thw px3. But what would I use it
> >> for? The aforementioned usability concerns and lack of afc in the kx3
> >> doesn't provide me with the utility I thought I was going to get from
> >> the
> >> kx3/px3 combo. If there is another use for a keyboard that I have
> >> missed,
> >> I would love to hear it.
> >>
> >> ...
> >
> > ...
> >
> >> *I think even the sidekar may not meet your digital needs. I am sure
> >> the sidekar does more and my apologies to the designers if I have
> >> under represented it's capabilites. I saw the sidekar at Dayton in
> >> 2014 and wondered why I would need it over a px3, especially with the
> >> px3 firmware upgrade that provided two lines of decode text on the
> >> px3 screen. The sidekar is not a general purpose computer and
> >> therefore is limited in its usability. How would you capture a call
> >> sign from the receive window to respond to a cq? Where would you
> >> store this call sign in either the kx3 or the sidekar? Usability and
> >> adaptability during digital qsos is necessary in order to keep up
> >> with those hams that are working in a much more productive environment.*
> >>
> >> I am sure there are others who have different setups and experiences to
> >> mine. I am interested to hear about them as is Steve.
> >>
> >> Regards
> >> Brian
> >> VE3IBW
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> > Message delivered to [hidden email]
> >
> >
> > -----
> > No virus found in this message.
> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > Version: 2015.0.6086 / Virus Database: 4401/10337 - Release Date:
> > 07/30/15
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

Stephen Shearer

Re: SideKar vs PX3 More

In reply to this post by alsopb

Brian, Thank you for the link...
the last time I looked at the netbooks the price was high... Or
discontinued.
I use MINT (replacement for xp) on my "full" sized old laptop and it
runs fldigi and wsjtx just fine (and USB sound card) and speed is about
the same, too.
Mint (linux) works the KX3 and PX3 utilities, also.
It would be nice to have a smaller computer.

73, steve WB3LGC

On 30-Jul-15 8:40 AM, brian wrote:

> It seems this dilemma can be solved by something like a 10" screen
> WINDOWs laptop. You get display, keyboard, the ability to run
> FLDIGI. They probably run on batteries as long as the rig et al. A
> few years ago I had an ACER aspire 1 (?). It ran everything I tried
> including sound card stuff.
>
> Here is one for about $125.
>
> http://www.amazon.com/Acer-AOA150-1447-8-9-Inch-Processor-Sapphire/dp/B001EYV9TM
>
>
> 73 de Brian/K3KO
>
>

Bill Frantz

Re: SideKar vs PX3

In reply to this post by ve3ibw

The most useful feature I have found for PSK frequency drift is
the ability to decode the past. If you miss part of a
transmission, you can go back and try to decode it again with a
different frequency setting.

cocoaModem for the Mac has this feature. Any signal still on the
waterfall can be decoded. When it finishes decoding the signal
on the waterfall, it automatically continues decoding the new
parts of the signal as they come in. cocoaModem is the only
program I know of for any computer which has this feature. I
would love to know of other programs which include it.

73 Bill AE6JV

On 7/29/15 at 3:10 PM, [hidden email] (Brian
Waterworth) wrote:

>Keeping a frequency lock on psk31 signals tends
>to require multiple presses of the cwt button during a qso to instruct the
>kx3 to re-tune to a psk31 signal. You will miss portions of the
>transmission because of this.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Frantz | "I wish there was a knob on the TV to turn
up the
408-356-8506 | intelligence. There's a knob called
"brightness", but
www.pwpconsult.com | it doesn't work. -- Gallagher

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ve3ibw

Re: SideKar vs PX3

FLDigi and DM780 both have this feature as does the program I mentioned in
my earlier post PSKer for the iPAD.

regards,
Brian
VE3IBW
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Regards,
Brian
VE3IBW

ve3ibw

Re: SideKar vs PX3

In reply to this post by Bill Frantz

FLDigi and DM780 both have this feature as does the program I mentioned in
my earlier post PSKer for the iPAD.

regards,
Brian
VE3IBW

On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 8:12 AM, Bill Frantz <[hidden email]> wrote:

> The most useful feature I have found for PSK frequency drift is the
> ability to decode the past. If you miss part of a transmission, you can go
> back and try to decode it again with a different frequency setting.
>
> cocoaModem for the Mac has this feature. Any signal still on the waterfall
> can be decoded. When it finishes decoding the signal on the waterfall, it
> automatically continues decoding the new parts of the signal as they come
> in. cocoaModem is the only program I know of for any computer which has
> this feature. I would love to know of other programs which include it.
>
> 73 Bill AE6JV
>
>

Regards,
Brian
VE3IBW

Shel Radin KF0UR

Re: SideKar vs PX3

In reply to this post by Stephen Shearer

Steve,

With the SideKar, you only have to enter the call once. Then it's used in all messages and the log as well. And if it's there, the log will automatically position you in the Exchange field, as that's the only field you need to enter (by paddle or keyboard).

73,

Shel KF0UR

Stephen Shearer

Re: SideKar vs PX3

Thank you for the info.

I am still thinking about SideKar.

1) cost - it may need to be a Christmas gift - it exceeds my max per
item spending limit without approval.

2) Elecraft - what are they "going" to do with the keyboard on the PX3
and more important, SideKar is stuck with the DSP decode method from
Elecraft, too. Fldigi has its own processing AND includes AFC. As
pointed out by someone else, the Elecraft DSP does not have AFC to track
psk31 (needed) or RTTY (not needed as much with wider signal). SO,
SideKar is stuck with a good display/logging system but stuck with ok
decoding. CW, why does the Elecraft DSP need a threshold level? For
example MRP40 has AGC and AFC, why not Elecraft? This limits SideKar
over fldigi and has made me think about my direction. For now, fldigi
has better decoding. "you", SideKar, should push Elecraft to improve
its DSP decode of CW/psk31/rtty... I don't expect "you" to have the DSP
answers, either... Minus six for Elecraft (afc+agc*kx3+k3+ks3)=6...

3) Elecraft has never said anything about a logging function with the
pX3 keyboard option, either. Plus one for SideKar.

Christmas isn't that far off and SideKar is still an option even with
the shaky decode issues.

73, steve WB3LGC

On 08-Sep-15 6:42 PM, Shel Radin KF0UR wrote:

> Steve,
>
> With the SideKar, you only have to enter the call once. Then it's used in
> all messages and the log as well. And if it's there, the log will
> automatically position you in the Exchange field, as that's the only field
> you need to enter (by paddle or keyboard).
>
> 73,
>
> Shel KF0UR
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/SideKar-vs-PX3-tp7605484p7607298.html
> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

Shel Radin KF0UR

Re: SideKar vs PX3

Steve,

One important thing to me and the way I use the KX3 is that with the SideKar, you don't need a PC, laptop, tablet, etc. It's self contained.

So for portable operation, it's lighter (5 oz) and smaller than bringing something else along. And it's sunlight readable. It has a transflective display, like the KX3.

Ho Ho Ho...

73,

Shel KF0UR

On September 8, 2015 7:46:31 PM MDT, Stephen Shearer <[hidden email]> wrote:

>Thank you for the info.
>
>I am still thinking about SideKar.
>
>1) cost - it may need to be a Christmas gift - it exceeds my max per
>item spending limit without approval.
>
>2) Elecraft - what are they "going" to do with the keyboard on the PX3
>and more important, SideKar is stuck with the DSP decode method from
>Elecraft, too. Fldigi has its own processing AND includes AFC. As
>pointed out by someone else, the Elecraft DSP does not have AFC to
>track
>psk31 (needed) or RTTY (not needed as much with wider signal). SO,
>SideKar is stuck with a good display/logging system but stuck with ok
>decoding. CW, why does the Elecraft DSP need a threshold level? For
>example MRP40 has AGC and AFC, why not Elecraft? This limits SideKar
>over fldigi and has made me think about my direction. For now, fldigi
>has better decoding. "you", SideKar, should push Elecraft to improve
>its DSP decode of CW/psk31/rtty... I don't expect "you" to have the
>DSP
>answers, either... Minus six for Elecraft (afc+agc*kx3+k3+ks3)=6...
>
>3) Elecraft has never said anything about a logging function with the
>pX3 keyboard option, either. Plus one for SideKar.
>
>Christmas isn't that far off and SideKar is still an option even with
>the shaky decode issues.
>
>73, steve WB3LGC
>
>
>On 08-Sep-15 6:42 PM, Shel Radin KF0UR wrote:
>> Steve,
>>
>> With the SideKar, you only have to enter the call once. Then it's
>used in
>> all messages and the log as well. And if it's there, the log will
>> automatically position you in the Exchange field, as that's the only
>field
>> you need to enter (by paddle or keyboard).
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> Shel KF0UR
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> View this message in context:
>http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/SideKar-vs-PX3-tp7605484p7607298.html
>> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>

wayne burdick

Re: SideKar vs PX3

Administrator

In reply to this post by Stephen Shearer

Hi Steve,

The built-in decode functions in the KX3 (etc.) were never meant to replace fire-breathing PC-based implementations running thousands of lines of code on multi-GHz processors.

Our customers like the decode/encode capability for its convenient, casual operation. Examples:

- Field Day, when you get burned out on CW and SSB (I myself made a few dozen RTTY and PSK31 contacts in this year's FD, just using the paddle and message buffers -- no PC)

- quickly pouncing on a new RTTY DX entity before long everyone else gets past thier Windows boot-up

- showing non-hams what CW and other modes "look like" -- they can see both halves of a QSO since both RX and TX streams are shown

We do have a long-term goal to continue improving the decoders, within resource limits. Any such improvement would come in the form of a free firmware upgrade.

73,
Wayne
N6KR

On Sep 8, 2015, at 6:46 PM, Stephen Shearer <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Thank you for the info.
>
> I am still thinking about SideKar….

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Phil Wheeler-2

Re: SideKar vs PX3

In reply to this post by Shel Radin KF0UR

I use an NUE-PSK, which has it's own decoding (for
PSK31 and CW), a keyer, etc. It's a bit of an
oddball I reckon, but perhaps that's why I like it.

73, Phil W7OX

On 9/8/15 8:39 PM, Shel Radin wrote:

> Steve,
>
> One important thing to me and the way I use the KX3 is that with the SideKar, you don't need a PC, laptop, tablet, etc. It's self contained.
>
> So for portable operation, it's lighter (5 oz) and smaller than bringing something else along. And it's sunlight readable. It has a transflective display, like the KX3.
>
> Ho Ho Ho...
>
> 73,
>
> Shel KF0UR
>
>
> On September 8, 2015 7:46:31 PM MDT, Stephen Shearer <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Thank you for the info.
>>
>> I am still thinking about SideKar.
>>
>> 1) cost - it may need to be a Christmas gift - it exceeds my max per
>> item spending limit without approval.
>>
>> 2) Elecraft - what are they "going" to do with the keyboard on the PX3
>> and more important, SideKar is stuck with the DSP decode method from
>> Elecraft, too. Fldigi has its own processing AND includes AFC. As
>> pointed out by someone else, the Elecraft DSP does not have AFC to
>> track
>> psk31 (needed) or RTTY (not needed as much with wider signal). SO,
>> SideKar is stuck with a good display/logging system but stuck with ok
>> decoding. CW, why does the Elecraft DSP need a threshold level? For
>> example MRP40 has AGC and AFC, why not Elecraft? This limits SideKar
>> over fldigi and has made me think about my direction. For now, fldigi
>> has better decoding. "you", SideKar, should push Elecraft to improve
>> its DSP decode of CW/psk31/rtty... I don't expect "you" to have the
>> DSP
>> answers, either... Minus six for Elecraft (afc+agc*kx3+k3+ks3)=6...
>>
>> 3) Elecraft has never said anything about a logging function with the
>> pX3 keyboard option, either. Plus one for SideKar.
>>
>> Christmas isn't that far off and SideKar is still an option even with
>> the shaky decode issues.
>>
>> 73, steve WB3LGC
>>
>>
>> On 08-Sep-15 6:42 PM, Shel Radin KF0UR wrote:
>>> Steve,
>>>
>>> With the SideKar, you only have to enter the call once. Then it's
>> used in
>>> all messages and the log as well. And if it's there, the log will
>>> automatically position you in the Exchange field, as that's the only
>> field
>>> you need to enter (by paddle or keyboard).
>>>
>>> 73,
>>>
>>> Shel KF0UR
>>>
>>>
>>>

Raymond Sills

Re: SideKar vs PX3

Hi Gang:

I do not have a SideKar, but I do have a Ham Central Terminal, which has a lot of the same features as the SideKar.
I also have a NUE-PSK modem. The big feature the HCT (and SideKar) bring to the plate is the logging capability, along with ADIF exporting. The connection to your rig (FT-817, KX3, etc) permits the SideKar to poll the rig for data like mode, band, (frequency), time.. so you log will have useful data. So, the SideKar is helpful in a contest situation, or for SOTA and similar activities. It’s also lightweight and can be self-powered.

The NUE-PSK modem is a generic device, in that it can be used with almost any rig, and it will decode CW, PSK, RTTY, and may offer additional modes. It’s compact and can be updated to include a USB interface, which permits easy firmware updates and the ability to save all received the sent text. That’s not logging, but you can view the generated text file to look back on your activity.

So each has it’s value (which is why I have both). And, both are quite QRP, unlike most laptop/computer based systems.

73 de Ray
K2ULR

> On Sep 9, 2015, at 12:19 AM, Phil Wheeler <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I use an NUE-PSK, which has it's own decoding (for PSK31 and CW), a keyer, etc. It's a bit of an oddball I reckon, but perhaps that's why I like it.
>
> 73, Phil W7OX
>
> On 9/8/15 8:39 PM, Shel Radin wrote:
>> Steve,
>>
>> One important thing to me and the way I use the KX3 is that with the SideKar, you don't need a PC, laptop, tablet, etc. It's self contained.
>>
>> So for portable operation, it's lighter (5 oz) and smaller than bringing something else along. And it's sunlight readable. It has a transflective display, like the KX3.
>>
>> Ho Ho Ho...
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> Shel KF0UR
>>
>>
>> On September 8, 2015 7:46:31 PM MDT, Stephen Shearer <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> Thank you for the info.
>>>
>>> I am still thinking about SideKar.
>>>
>>> 1) cost - it may need to be a Christmas gift - it exceeds my max per
>>> item spending limit without approval.
>>>
>>> 2) Elecraft - what are they "going" to do with the keyboard on the PX3
>>> and more important, SideKar is stuck with the DSP decode method from
>>> Elecraft, too. Fldigi has its own processing AND includes AFC. As
>>> pointed out by someone else, the Elecraft DSP does not have AFC to
>>> track
>>> psk31 (needed) or RTTY (not needed as much with wider signal). SO,
>>> SideKar is stuck with a good display/logging system but stuck with ok
>>> decoding. CW, why does the Elecraft DSP need a threshold level? For
>>> example MRP40 has AGC and AFC, why not Elecraft? This limits SideKar
>>> over fldigi and has made me think about my direction. For now, fldigi
>>> has better decoding. "you", SideKar, should push Elecraft to improve
>>> its DSP decode of CW/psk31/rtty... I don't expect "you" to have the
>>> DSP
>>> answers, either... Minus six for Elecraft (afc+agc*kx3+k3+ks3)=6...
>>>
>>> 3) Elecraft has never said anything about a logging function with the
>>> pX3 keyboard option, either. Plus one for SideKar.
>>>
>>> Christmas isn't that far off and SideKar is still an option even with
>>> the shaky decode issues.
>>>
>>> 73, steve WB3LGC
>>>
>>>
>>> On 08-Sep-15 6:42 PM, Shel Radin KF0UR wrote:
>>>> Steve,
>>>>
>>>> With the SideKar, you only have to enter the call once. Then it's
>>> used in
>>>> all messages and the log as well. And if it's there, the log will
>>>> automatically position you in the Exchange field, as that's the only
>>> field
>>>> you need to enter (by paddle or keyboard).
>>>>
>>>> 73,
>>>>
>>>> Shel KF0UR
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

ae4pb

Re: SideKar vs PX3

AFAIK based on reading the SideKar site it's just reporting what the Kline radio is giving it already decoded. $250 is a bit much when you think about what the box does. Seems to me you could build up a RaspberryPi solution to do the same thing with a few tweaks for under $100 AND have something that's easily re-purposed..etc.

-----Original Message-----
From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Ray Sills
Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2015 9:02 AM
To: Phil Wheeler
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] SideKar vs PX3

Hi Gang:

I do not have a SideKar, but I do have a Ham Central Terminal, which has a lot of the same features as the SideKar.
I also have a NUE-PSK modem. The big feature the HCT (and SideKar) bring to the plate is the logging capability, along with ADIF exporting. The connection to your rig (FT-817, KX3, etc) permits the SideKar to poll the rig for data like mode, band, (frequency), time.. so you log will have useful data. So, the SideKar is helpful in a contest situation, or for SOTA and similar activities. It’s also lightweight and can be self-powered.

The NUE-PSK modem is a generic device, in that it can be used with almost any rig, and it will decode CW, PSK, RTTY, and may offer additional modes. It’s compact and can be updated to include a USB interface, which permits easy firmware updates and the ability to save all received the sent text. That’s not logging, but you can view the generated text file to look back on your activity.

So each has it’s value (which is why I have both). And, both are quite QRP, unlike most laptop/computer based systems.

73 de Ray
K2ULR

> On Sep 9, 2015, at 12:19 AM, Phil Wheeler <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I use an NUE-PSK, which has it's own decoding (for PSK31 and CW), a keyer, etc. It's a bit of an oddball I reckon, but perhaps that's why I like it.
>
> 73, Phil W7OX
>
> On 9/8/15 8:39 PM, Shel Radin wrote:
>> Steve,
>>
>> One important thing to me and the way I use the KX3 is that with the SideKar, you don't need a PC, laptop, tablet, etc. It's self contained.
>>
>> So for portable operation, it's lighter (5 oz) and smaller than bringing something else along. And it's sunlight readable. It has a transflective display, like the KX3.
>>
>> Ho Ho Ho...
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> Shel KF0UR
>>
>>
>> On September 8, 2015 7:46:31 PM MDT, Stephen Shearer <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> Thank you for the info.
>>>
>>> I am still thinking about SideKar.
>>>
>>> 1) cost - it may need to be a Christmas gift - it exceeds my max per
>>> item spending limit without approval.
>>>
>>> 2) Elecraft - what are they "going" to do with the keyboard on the
>>> PX3 and more important, SideKar is stuck with the DSP decode method
>>> from Elecraft, too. Fldigi has its own processing AND includes AFC.
>>> As pointed out by someone else, the Elecraft DSP does not have AFC
>>> to track
>>> psk31 (needed) or RTTY (not needed as much with wider signal). SO,
>>> SideKar is stuck with a good display/logging system but stuck with
>>> ok decoding. CW, why does the Elecraft DSP need a threshold level?
>>> For example MRP40 has AGC and AFC, why not Elecraft? This limits
>>> SideKar over fldigi and has made me think about my direction. For
>>> now, fldigi has better decoding. "you", SideKar, should push
>>> Elecraft to improve its DSP decode of CW/psk31/rtty... I don't
>>> expect "you" to have the DSP answers, either... Minus six for
>>> Elecraft (afc+agc*kx3+k3+ks3)=6...
>>>
>>> 3) Elecraft has never said anything about a logging function with
>>> the
>>> pX3 keyboard option, either. Plus one for SideKar.
>>>
>>> Christmas isn't that far off and SideKar is still an option even
>>> with the shaky decode issues.
>>>
>>> 73, steve WB3LGC
>>>
>>>
>>> On 08-Sep-15 6:42 PM, Shel Radin KF0UR wrote:
>>>> Steve,
>>>>
>>>> With the SideKar, you only have to enter the call once. Then it's
>>> used in
>>>> all messages and the log as well. And if it's there, the log will
>>>> automatically position you in the Exchange field, as that's the
>>>> only
>>> field
>>>> you need to enter (by paddle or keyboard).
>>>>
>>>> 73,
>>>>
>>>> Shel KF0UR
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email
> list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to
> [hidden email]

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ve3ibw

Re: SideKar vs PX3

Correct on the RPi2. I did just that with FLDigi on Raspian. Works great
and gives me a low power, low cost Digital transcoder for more than just
PSK31, RTTY, and CW. The only issue I wrote about in this chain previously
is the need for a screen and a keyboard. I did that with a Bluetooth
keyboard attached to an iPad which used VNC to the RPi2. Talk about using
a sledgehammer to hang a picture hook. Of course, I had all these
components already and wanted to reuse them. So, the cost was sunk for
other purposes, not for a portable digital station. While this setup
worked, it was a lot of stuff to carry.

The epiphany that surfaced from the Elecraft reflector participants in this
conversation was that a low cost, small laptop would provide all the
logging, digital transcoding needs for a portable HF station predicated on
the KX3. Often, you can find smaller laptops, refurbished, for less than
$200.

regards,
Brian
VE3IBW

On Wed, Sep 9, 2015 at 10:00 AM, <[hidden email]> wrote:

> AFAIK based on reading the SideKar site it's just reporting what the Kline
> radio is giving it already decoded. $250 is a bit much when you think about
> what the box does. Seems to me you could build up a RaspberryPi solution to
> do the same thing with a few tweaks for under $100 AND have something
> that's easily re-purposed..etc.
>
______________________________________________________________
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Post: mailto:[hidden email]

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Regards,
Brian
VE3IBW