Soliticing Comments on the P3
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Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2012 09:12:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Lee Buller <[hidden email]> Subject: [Elecraft] Soliticing Comments on the P3 To: Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]> Message-ID: <[hidden email]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I am very interested in the P3 to add to my K3. But, I give pause as to the usefulness of this device. Although the cool factor is high...I wonder if it worth the dollars. Of course in ham radio...dollars are not rare, never come into consideration, and they grow on trees. _________________________________________________ I answered Lee offline, but for the benefit of others pondering this same question, I have this almost short comment: Yeah, I used to say "what would I ever need one of those for. And what is the big-deal about a water-fall?" One thing led to another and I bought a P3. I don't know how I ever did without it. I told Lee many reasons for this, but I forgot to tell him they are great for contesting. The small size is convenient for me and adequate as well. IMHO, to have a P3 is a good reason to buy a K3. I appreciate that it's not computer dependent (even though I have not been without a computer since the mid-seventies). Richard Fjeld, n0ce [hidden email] I'd rather be learning. ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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You get hooked pretty quickly because it is useful - just had mine a week. I
have used it to more effectively work split dx operations. Seeing where all the traffic is and where the big signals are in the pileup, I can pick my spot to make my signal get through. One thing I didn't anticipate is visual observation of just how close a strong signal can be while the K3 is able to keep me in comfortable isolation. CW is a snap with the P3. ________________________________ From: Richard Fjeld <[hidden email]> To: elecraft posting <[hidden email]> Sent: Mon, March 26, 2012 1:52:35 AM Subject: [Elecraft] Soliticing Comments on the P3 Message: 1 Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2012 09:12:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Lee Buller <[hidden email]> Subject: [Elecraft] Soliticing Comments on the P3 To: Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]> Message-ID: <[hidden email]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I am very interested in the P3 to add to my K3. But, I give pause as to the usefulness of this device. Although the cool factor is high...I wonder if it worth the dollars. Of course in ham radio...dollars are not rare, never come into consideration, and they grow on trees. _________________________________________________ I answered Lee offline, but for the benefit of others pondering this same question, I have this almost short comment: Yeah, I used to say "what would I ever need one of those for. And what is the big-deal about a water-fall?" One thing led to another and I bought a P3. I don't know how I ever did without it. I told Lee many reasons for this, but I forgot to tell him they are great for contesting. The small size is convenient for me and adequate as well. IMHO, to have a P3 is a good reason to buy a K3. I appreciate that it's not computer dependent (even though I have not been without a computer since the mid-seventies). Richard Fjeld, n0ce [hidden email] I'd rather be learning. ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Jack - WE5ST
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In reply to this post by Richard Fjeld
I think the P3 should be banned. It makes working DX way too easy! Well,
and skimmers too. Actually, the P3 probably has a positive effect on pile ups. All the K3/P3 owners will be getting in and out of the pile up early thus reducing the size for everybody else. The P3 is wonderful. Fred Cady "The Elecraft K3: Design, Configuration and Operation" www.ke7x.com ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: Soliticing Comments on the P3
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Hello, Fred!
I know better now what you mean. I've been doing a lot of PC host work for the P3 but haven't used it much in contest operation. I was at K5RC this weekend for the WPX Contest (we used KS7AA) and I found that the P3 made it much easier to locate relatively clear frequencies to CQ in. If the waterfall below is clear for a while... As I was tuning in S&P mode and found a spot that was currently silent but had a bit of waterfall below, I found that I could tune so that the cursor was just to the right of the width of the SSB signal in the waterfall and when he next spoke his CQ message, I was tuned in closely enough that I got the call the first time. Made S&P much quicker. And of course in a pileup on CW (I found a JY on 15 meters before the contest), it's so much easier to find the current "winner" and more quickly detect the DX station's tuning pattern. I know your "banned" comment was tongue in cheek, but there have been a good number of developments in the history of the DX and contesting sub-hobbies that were initially viewed as an unfair advantage. They became a "best practice" as their value became evident to more and more. CW memory keyers, computer logging, multiple spotting receivers, SO2R, etc. Some didn't make the leap into the sun (e.g. octopuses), some are still debated, some were embraced within appropriate categories. We were multi-single, and these days that means "use packet spotting". As I was working my way through a bandmap filled with new multipliers pressing ctrl down arrow to move from unworked station to station it occurred to me that we've come a long way in the last dozen or so years. In WPX one new prefix is as good as another, so rate makes all the difference in the world. You can't get stuck in pileups for that rare station in Africa when another European with a new prefix has the same QSO point and multiplier value. This is the appeal of competitive amateur radio; we're always experimenting with ways to be more effective and efficient at making a lot of contacts in less time. A lot of our station automation is for that reason. I'll get a bigger SVGA display for more waterfall. It'll make it more evident where a "clear" frequency is. 73 de Dick, K6KR -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Cady, Fred Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 7:40 AM To: Richard Fjeld; elecraft posting Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Soliticing Comments on the P3 I think the P3 should be banned. It makes working DX way too easy! Well, and skimmers too. Actually, the P3 probably has a positive effect on pile ups. All the K3/P3 owners will be getting in and out of the pile up early thus reducing the size for everybody else. The P3 is wonderful. Fred Cady "The Elecraft K3: Design, Configuration and Operation" www.ke7x.com ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Cady, Fred
Had my P3/SVGA a week. I held off initially purchasing the P3, as its screen size just seemed too small for my situation. Once I got the P3 in last week, I could see how small the screen size was and I would have trouble in seeing details. But with the SVGA option (which is what got me to order the P3 in the first place), the screen size of the external display (19 in monitor) makes the use of the P3 so pleasant.
For spotting where to call DX stations in a CW pileup, it works wonders and greatly minimizes the time you spend in calling in a pileup. The first few days of calling a number of DX stations was so easy now that you can see your competition! Spotting clear holes in the pack to call is easy and spotting the station coming back to the DX station is routine now. I am pleased and will no doubt use the P3 for many other uses than just working DX.
Roger W5RDW
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I have had the P3 long enough to really appreciate it. With 7O6T on the air for a few days, its usefulness really shines for CW. At first, I was not use to combating so many signals at once calling a station! What a huge pileup!
Somewhat by accident, I have found the "magic" button to greatly increase my chances in finding the station being called: the AVERAGE function. By adjusting the AVERAGE setting to 8 or so slows down the action enough to make spotting the station he is calling much easier to find. It took only 2 calls on 20 meters earlier and 15 meters was maybe 5 minutes calling and hunting. The propagation today has been very good on 15 /17/20 meters and the signal density was impressive as seen on the P3! If you have never heard your call sent at speeds greater than 30 wpm, the 20 meter ops have been putting on a show the last few days.
Roger W5RDW
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Re: Soliticing Comments on the P3
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My P3 is new enough that I'm learning more and more about it as well.
In chasing 7O6T I too have found my P3 valuable. A couple of days ago, 7O6T was on 12 CW and the signal was waaaay down in the mud. The P3 didn't do diddly to help me identify where "the pack" was spread out. I came within a gnat's heinie of querying the group to see why the sensitivity on 12 seemed to be so low. Then, later that evening (I did get through to them on 12 CW by the way!), I was sitting there, staring at the front of the P3. I remembered futzing with a number of the controls the first few days I had it. My first change was probably to make the scale read in "S-units" (it still needs to be calibrated, but it gives me the warm fuzzies and besides, it's all relative). Then I realized what I probably needed was REF LVL. Pressed the button for that function and went into a strange mode - that mode is known as the "...the heck with the directions, just push some buttons, twirl some knobs and see what happens!" mode. The REF LVL was *exactly* what I was looking for. I moved mine down so that S2 was pretty much on the bottom. S9 is off the top of the screen at the moment, but I figure if they're S5 or S6 they're going to be reasonably loud anyway. Can't believe I operated all these years without some kind of panadapter! Art - N4PJ On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 9:22 PM, W5RDW <[hidden email]> wrote: > I have had the P3 long enough to really appreciate it. With 7O6T on the air > for a few days, its usefulness really shines for CW. At first, I was not > use > to combating so many signals at once calling a station! What a huge pileup! > > Somewhat by accident, I have found the "magic" button to greatly increase > my > chances in finding the station being called: the AVERAGE function. By > adjusting the AVERAGE setting to 8 or so slows down the action enough to > make spotting the station he is calling much easier to find. It took only 2 > calls on 20 meters earlier and 15 meters was maybe 5 minutes calling and > hunting. > > The propagation today has been very good on 15 /17/20 meters and the signal > density was impressive as seen on the P3! If you have never heard your call > sent at speeds greater than 30 wpm, the 20 meter ops have been putting on a > show the last few days. > > ----- > Roger W5RDW > -- > View this message in context: > http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Soliticing-Comments-on-the-P3-tp7406770p7522059.html > Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: Soliticing Comments on the P3
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At work we have a 2 or 3 decade old Watkins Johnson receiver with a panadapter.
Original price tag: $20k. Granted, that wasn't just because of a built in panadapter but the P3 puts it to shame. Technology is cruising along! 73, Mike ab3ap On 05/03/2012 07:06 AM, Arthur Burke wrote: > [...] > > Can't believe I operated all these years without some kind of panadapter! > > Art - N4PJ ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by W5RDW
On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 8:22 PM, W5RDW <[hidden email]> wrote:
> ....With 7O6T on the air for a few days, its usefulness really shines... ================ Definitely true. Without a panadaptor it would be really, really hard to track down his listening frequency. (Even with one it's hard in all that chaos.) The pileups have been even wider than they were for ST0R. I worked him on CW 11 up on one band and 12 up on another, and the pile extended for many kc above that. I guess one thing that modern technology has made possible is bigger pileups. Tony KT0NY -- http://www.isb.edu/faculty/facultydir.aspx?ddlFaculty=352 ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: Soliticing Comments on the P3
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There are many I've encountered who argue that Skimmer (including Reverse
Beacon Networks) is the best tool for the pileup. But it's also been pointed out that newer technology has made it possible for the DX to work a station 10.35 kHz up from where he's listening and within 12 nanoseconds (quickly!) 40 other stations are zero beat with that frequency - and then with all of them jammed on top of that same frequency, reading a single call is virtually impossible, forcing the DX op to tune elsewhere. This is not my opinion, this is a comment from G3TXF, an acknowledged expert. While one could *still* argue the merits of the Skimmer technology (and I've been struggling to make mine work properly!), I've found great success with my P3. I can't always immediately tell where the DX is currently listening, but, with the SUB RX on, listening to the DX in left ear, pileup in the right ear, tuning fairly quickly with the VFO B knob, watching the P3, etc., I've followed the station through the pileup on numerous occasions. My personal "best reward" has been by using the P3 to identify "...where they ain't..." and more or less camp out there until the DX stumbles across me. There are times when the pileup discipline is awesome - only the guy being called responds - one could only wish this would happen more often! Then the signal spike on the P3 leads one to the proverbial well. Unfortunately, many, many times, the DX calls for "PJ?" and a bunch of guys with nothing resembling a "P" or a "J" just keep right on calling. Then the pileup, like life, becomes a little more difficult! The Elecraft Electro-Wonder K9 will solve some of those problems. There's a feature being developed on that rig that will identify the continuous non-listening callers and send them a 36v jolt that will hopefully shock them to their senses. 1984 has long come and gone and Big Brother is no longer watching the pileup! Art - N4PJ On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 9:47 AM, Tony Estep <[hidden email]> wrote: > On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 8:22 PM, W5RDW <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > ....With 7O6T on the air for a few days, its usefulness really shines... > > ================ > Definitely true. Without a panadaptor it would be really, really hard to > track down his listening frequency. (Even with one it's hard in all that > chaos.) The pileups have been even wider than they were for ST0R. I worked > him on CW 11 up on one band and 12 up on another, and the pile extended for > many kc above that. I guess one thing that modern technology has made > possible is bigger pileups. > > Tony KT0NY > > > > -- > http://www.isb.edu/faculty/facultydir.aspx?ddlFaculty=352 > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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That's funny, I heard that the K9 was gonna be a real DOG ;-)
(cue rim shot) 73, Larry N8LP <quote author="Arthur Burke"> The Elecraft Electro-Wonder K9 will solve some of those problems. There's a feature being developed on that rig that will identify the continuous non-listening callers and send them a 36v jolt that will hopefully shock them to their senses. 1984 has long come and gone and Big Brother is no longer watching the pileup! Art - N4PJ |
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In reply to this post by Arthur Burke
On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 9:21 AM, Arthur Burke <[hidden email]> wrote:
> ....the DX in left ear, pileup in the right ear, tuning fairly quickly > with the VFO B knob, watching.. > ============== I agree with all the comments in Art's previous post. I have CW Skimmer but I rarely fire it up, not even in the case of the massive piles of 7O6T. In this case Skimmer would probably be at its best, since the pileup doesn't stop calling no matter what. The pan screen shows more or less the same weed patch when the DX is transmitting, and when someone is working him, as it does during the calling intervals. But even so, the pan picture plus some guesswork can get you in the right place enough times to eventually snag the guy, even with a peanut whistle in the RF-free zone. Without that picture, it's pretty hard to guess where to go when the pile is 15 kc wide with many hundreds of signals audible. Tony KT0NY -- http://www.isb.edu/faculty/facultydir.aspx?ddlFaculty=352 ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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