Son of K3??
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Kenwood TS-590,,, Son of K3?? ,,,,or,,(Attempted) Imitation is the sincerest
form of flattery?? ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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What? Are you dreaming? That Kenwood radio will never be the son of our K3's.
AD4C "For a refined ham it is compulsory to own a k3" --- On Sat, 5/15/10, jack jackson <[hidden email]> wrote: From: jack jackson <[hidden email]> Subject: [Elecraft] Son of K3?? To: [hidden email] Date: Saturday, May 15, 2010, 1:43 PM Kenwood TS-590,,, Son of K3?? ,,,,or,,(Attempted) Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery?? ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by jack jackson
I talked to a Kenwood rep at Dayton this morning. He said the TS-590 would have the best receiver specs out there. I asked if it would beat the K3 and he said the TS-590 would have the best receiver specs out there. The radio has an IF of 11MHz and two stock roofing filters - 2.8KHz and 500Hz - no spare slots and no options. It will not have a second receiver or option for one. I remarked on it's superficial similarity to the K3 and he said that the K3 had done some things right and that they were not too proud to use them. Price is expected to be $1800 and expected to be available in the fall. The model on display was an operational hand-built prototype with some features disabled.
As a very happy K3 owner, if Kenwood can meet or slightly exceed the K3 receiver numbers with this radio then more power to them. It still won't match the overall capability of the K3 and Kenwood certainly won't match the Elecraft level of support. It might, however, attract users who are looking for a radio with good specs at a mid-level price and without the complications (or availability) of options. Will, AI4VE ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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If the TS-590 uses only two roofing filters and has "the best receiver specs
out there", then I speculate that it could be using an H-Mode mixer, that the roofers exhibit better than average in-passband and skirt IIP3 followed by a decent "strong" IF, plus a LO whose phase noise is suitably low e.g. -145 dbc/Hz at 1 kHz offset. If they have gone down this route and if they have paid attention to important details such as core sizes and mix, then with the 500 Hz roofer in line we might be seeing spurious free IMDDR3 figures of 120db at spacings of 1kHz, and a HF noise figure of 9-10db without a preamp, based on actual measurements made on a living "H-Mode" receiver. 73, Geoff GM4ESD From: "William Ravenel" <[hidden email]> Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 1:24 AM >I talked to a Kenwood rep at Dayton this morning. He said the TS-590 would >have the best receiver specs out there. I asked if it would beat the K3 and >he said the TS-590 would have the best receiver specs out there. The radio >has an IF of 11MHz and two stock roofing filters - 2.8KHz and 500Hz - no >spare slots and no options. ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: Son of K3?? & P3 keyboard interface
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In reply to this post by jack jackson
great dayton... a lot more people a lot more young people ,,,,, SUNSHINE,,, I passed by / thru Kenwood three times along the wall of the new radio... I did hear the word "K3" each time... not one time did I hear "kenwood",..... If the new Kenwood has a tuner I wonder if it has the capability of the k3's tuner.,,,,, doubt it, unless they copied that concept as well..... Eric & Wayne did a 45 minute "casual" talk at the QRP convention on Sat night. In responding to a K3 keyboard interface Eric indicated the interface would be through the P3. bill /3 ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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Wayne also indicated that a VGA video output option (P3) is in the
works as well... GREAT..!! W4CCS On 5/16/2010 2:09 PM, Bill NY9H wrote: > great dayton... > > a lot more people > a lot more young people ,,,,, > > SUNSHINE,,, > > > I passed by / thru Kenwood three times along the wall of the new radio... > I did hear the word "K3" each time... not one time did I hear "kenwood",..... > > If the new Kenwood has a tuner I wonder if it has the capability of > the k3's tuner.,,,,, > doubt it, unless they copied that concept as well..... > > Eric& Wayne did a 45 minute "casual" talk at the QRP convention on Sat night. > In responding to a K3 keyboard interface Eric indicated the interface > would be through the P3. > > bill /3 > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: Son of K3?? & P3 keyboard interface
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Gee, it just keeps getting better and better eh?
What gear have they got on display?...any photos of the Booth for us that are far away and in the dark?...(Grin) Gary VK4FD On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 5:25 AM, W4CCS <[hidden email]> wrote: > Wayne also indicated that a VGA video output option (P3) is in the > works as well... GREAT..!! > > W4CCS > > > On 5/16/2010 2:09 PM, Bill NY9H wrote: > > great dayton... > > > > a lot more people > > a lot more young people ,,,,, > > > > SUNSHINE,,, > > > > > > I passed by / thru Kenwood three times along the wall of the new > radio... > > I did hear the word "K3" each time... not one time did I hear > "kenwood",..... > > > > If the new Kenwood has a tuner I wonder if it has the capability of > > the k3's tuner.,,,,, > > doubt it, unless they copied that concept as well..... > > > > Eric& Wayne did a 45 minute "casual" talk at the QRP convention on Sat > night. > > In responding to a K3 keyboard interface Eric indicated the interface > > would be through the P3. > > > > bill /3 > > > > ______________________________________________________________ > > Elecraft mailing list > > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > -- Gary VK4FD - Motorhome Mobile http://www.qsl.net/vk4fd/ K3 #679 For everything else there's Mastercard!!! ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: Son of K3?? & P3 keyboard interface
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In reply to this post by W4CCS
VGA? Not HDMI? How ever will I get this low res signal to look crisp on my 60" 1080p display? And what about 3-D?
:-) Grant/NQ5T On May 16, 2010, at 2:25 PM, W4CCS wrote: > Wayne also indicated that a VGA video output option (P3) is in the > works as well... GREAT..!! > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Gary Gregory
Hi Gary: Here is my take on Dayton 2010.. The Elecraft booth was by far the most popular place to be. Saw the new P3 and the new KPA500. Both were impressive. No pictures from me. I had enough to tote around.. The new Kenwood radio was good to see but not a lot of interest by my observation. Yaesu's boot was full mostly of people looking for a free hat, myself included ( just put it on the self with the other 6 or 7 I have). Alpha showed there new 6 meter offering. Runs a 4CX1500 tube and will delver lots of smoke on six. Not yet type accepted or priced but the rumor was 5 to 6k.. OUCH..!! The bone yard was much better this year over last. Much less plain "junk", lots of land mobile "junk".. Lots more actual ham equipment. My observation is that this Datyton was much better then last year. Had lots of fun and met lots of great hams. By the end, both my feet and legs were very mad at me.. De W4CCS On 5/16/2010 3:28 PM, Gary Gregory wrote: > Gee, it just keeps getting better and better eh? > What gear have they got on display?...any photos of the Booth for us > that are far away and in the dark?...(Grin) > Gary > VK4FD > > On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 5:25 AM, W4CCS <[hidden email] > <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote: > > Wayne also indicated that a VGA video output option (P3) is in the > works as well... GREAT..!! > > W4CCS > > > On 5/16/2010 2:09 PM, Bill NY9H wrote: > > great dayton... > > > > a lot more people > > a lot more young people ,,,,, > > > > SUNSHINE,,, > > > > > > I passed by / thru Kenwood three times along the wall of the > new radio... > > I did hear the word "K3" each time... not one time did I hear > "kenwood",..... > > > > If the new Kenwood has a tuner I wonder if it has the capability of > > the k3's tuner.,,,,, > > doubt it, unless they copied that concept as well..... > > > > Eric& Wayne did a 45 minute "casual" talk at the QRP convention > on Sat night. > > In responding to a K3 keyboard interface Eric indicated the > interface > > would be through the P3. > > > > bill /3 > > > > ______________________________________________________________ > > Elecraft mailing list > > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > <mailto:[hidden email]> > > > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net <http://www.qsl.net/> > > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > <mailto:[hidden email]> > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net <http://www.qsl.net/> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > > > > -- > Gary > VK4FD - Motorhome Mobile > http://www.qsl.net/vk4fd/ > K3 #679 > For everything else there's Mastercard!!! ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Geoffrey Mackenzie-Kennedy
For me and all others (I maybe the only one). Does this imply the
enginreers at Elcraft need to do some brushing up on designing of DSPs. Are you saying their heterodynes aren't would they should be. N6XVT 73 Sent from my iPhone On May 16, 2010, at 8:45 AM, "Geoffrey Mackenzie-Kennedy" <[hidden email] > wrote: > If the TS-590 uses only two roofing filters and has "the best > receiver specs > out there", then I speculate that it could be using an H-Mode mixer, > that > the roofers exhibit better than average in-passband and skirt IIP3 > followed > by a decent "strong" IF, plus a LO whose phase noise is suitably low > e.g. -145 dbc/Hz at 1 kHz offset. > > If they have gone down this route and if they have paid attention to > important details such as core sizes and mix, then with the 500 Hz > roofer in > line we might be seeing spurious free IMDDR3 figures of 120db at > spacings of > 1kHz, and a HF noise figure of 9-10db without a preamp, based on > actual > measurements made on a living "H-Mode" receiver. > > 73, > Geoff > GM4ESD > > > > From: "William Ravenel" <[hidden email]> > Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 1:24 AM > >> I talked to a Kenwood rep at Dayton this morning. He said the >> TS-590 would >> have the best receiver specs out there. I asked if it would beat >> the K3 and >> he said the TS-590 would have the best receiver specs out there. >> The radio >> has an IF of 11MHz and two stock roofing filters - 2.8KHz and 500Hz >> - no >> spare slots and no options. > > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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No criticism of Elecraft nor the K3 was intended, besides I do not have any
good hard data as to the receive signal handling capability of the K3's DSP sub-system. What triggered my comment was that the TS-590 is said to use only two roofing filters and it is claimed by the manufacturer that "it has the best receiver specs out there". If it is a superhet, this sounds suspiciously like a receiver that uses a H-Mode mixer, high IIP3 roofers, and a "strong" IF. The H-Mode is a type of mixer which appeared more than 15 years ago and yields very good "IMD" performance, better than most, and as far as I know is not yet used in commercial amateur receivers - I don't know why not. It will be interesting to see whether or not the designers of the TS-590 receiver have used a proper Gain Distribution analysis to obtain optimum IMDDR3 performance, which should include every "stage" or element in or which impacts on the signal path, this includes L-C filters, crystal filters as well as LO phase noise. It will also be interesting to see their approach to the LO, because a PLL based synthesiser whose cost is within budget would probably be too "noisy". All should be evident from the schematic when and if it becomes available. 73, Geoff GM4ESD On Sunday, May 16, 2010, at 11:30 PM, Karl Marderian <[hidden email]> wrote: > For me and all others (I maybe the only one). Does this imply the > enginreers at Elcraft need to do some brushing up on designing of DSPs. > Are you saying their heterodynes aren't would they should be. > N6XVT 73 > > Sent from my iPhone ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: Son of K3?? & P3 keyboard interface
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In reply to this post by W4CCS
On Sun, 2010-05-16 at 15:56 -0400, W4CCS wrote:
> Hi Gary: > > Here is my take on Dayton 2010.. > > The Elecraft booth was by far the most popular place to be. As we were packing up at the end of the show, the follow selling ham apparel told me he was very glad his booth was right across the aisle from the Elecraft booth. :=) Alan N1AL ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: Son of K3?? & P3 keyboard interface
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Alan,
Had a chuckle while I read your reply. Now, I wonder where I can stay next year...me thinks I have to see this for myself...(Grin) Well I better go pack the gear for this Dxpedition, man I have a heck of a lot of "stuff" to put on the trailer and now only 36 hours away from ....lights, action, roll'em... 73's Gary On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 3:54 AM, Alan Bloom <[hidden email]> wrote: > On Sun, 2010-05-16 at 15:56 -0400, W4CCS wrote: > > Hi Gary: > > > > Here is my take on Dayton 2010.. > > > > The Elecraft booth was by far the most popular place to be. > > As we were packing up at the end of the show, the follow selling ham > apparel told me he was very glad his booth was right across the aisle > from the Elecraft booth. :=) > > Alan N1AL > > > -- Gary VK4FD - Motorhome Mobile http://www.qsl.net/vk4fd/ K3 #679 For everything else there's Mastercard!!! ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Geoffrey Mackenzie-Kennedy
Oh, it is mostly over my head, but thank you for the explaintion. My
frist transceiver was a Kenwood. They were at one time one of the best. Maybe Elecraft has started a new apporach to transceivers. N6XVT 73 Sent from my iPhone On May 16, 2010, at 6:38 PM, "Geoffrey Mackenzie-Kennedy" <[hidden email] > wrote: > No criticism of Elecraft nor the K3 was intended, besides I do not > have any good hard data as to the receive signal handling capability > of the K3's DSP sub-system. > > What triggered my comment was that the TS-590 is said to use only > two roofing filters and it is claimed by the manufacturer that "it > has the best receiver specs out there". If it is a superhet, this > sounds suspiciously like a receiver that uses a H-Mode mixer, high > IIP3 roofers, and a "strong" IF. The H-Mode is a type of mixer which > appeared more than 15 years ago and yields very good "IMD" > performance, better than most, and as far as I know is not yet used > in commercial amateur receivers - I don't know why not. > > It will be interesting to see whether or not the designers of the > TS-590 receiver have used a proper Gain Distribution analysis to > obtain optimum IMDDR3 performance, which should include every > "stage" or element in or which impacts on the signal path, this > includes L-C filters, crystal filters as well as LO phase noise. It > will also be interesting to see their approach to the LO, because a > PLL based synthesiser whose cost is within budget would probably be > too "noisy". > > All should be evident from the schematic when and if it becomes > available. > > 73, > > Geoff > GM4ESD > > > On Sunday, May 16, 2010, at 11:30 PM, Karl Marderian <[hidden email] > > wrote: > >> For me and all others (I maybe the only one). Does this imply the >> enginreers at Elcraft need to do some brushing up on designing of >> DSPs. >> Are you saying their heterodynes aren't would they should be. >> N6XVT 73 >> >> Sent from my iPhone > > > > > Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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Elecraft up dates it's stuff and as you can see everyone on web is
helpfully and cool. Even if just get the ten watt unit you love the K3 and can alwasys add, add and add. N6XVT 73 Sent from my iPhone On May 17, 2010, at 4:11 PM, Jim Bennett <[hidden email]> wrote: > Hi Karl - > > Just read your post and got a chuckle. I'm glad to know that I'm not > the only one who has been scratching his head with all that techno- > talk about the TS-590 design. I read some of the stuff posted on the > Elecraft reflector and have to go: huh??? I have "some" technical > knowledge in electronics, but lots of those discussions make my head > hurt! > > I also had Kenwood equipment many years ago. After selling my old > Heathkit DX-60, SB-400, and SB-101 rigs, I bought a TS-180s. Nice > little rig. Then we hams got the 30, 17, and 12 meter WARC bands and > I was out of luck there. So I sold the '180s and got a TS-450 and > then a TS-850. Migrated from Kenwood to an Icom IC-775 and then an > IC-756 Pro III. Now saving up my pesos for a K3. > > 73, Jim / W6JHB > > > On Monday, May 17, 2010, at Monday, 4:02 PM, Karl Marderian wrote: > >> Oh, it is mostly over my head, but thank you for the explaintion. My >> frist transceiver was a Kenwood. They were at one time one of the >> best. Maybe Elecraft has started a new apporach to transceivers. >> N6XVT 73 >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On May 16, 2010, at 6:38 PM, "Geoffrey Mackenzie-Kennedy" <[hidden email] >>> wrote: >> >>> No criticism of Elecraft nor the K3 was intended, besides I do not >>> have any good hard data as to the receive signal handling capability >>> of the K3's DSP sub-system. >>> >>> What triggered my comment was that the TS-590 is said to use only >>> two roofing filters and it is claimed by the manufacturer that "it >>> has the best receiver specs out there". If it is a superhet, this >>> sounds suspiciously like a receiver that uses a H-Mode mixer, high >>> IIP3 roofers, and a "strong" IF. The H-Mode is a type of mixer which >>> appeared more than 15 years ago and yields very good "IMD" >>> performance, better than most, and as far as I know is not yet used >>> in commercial amateur receivers - I don't know why not. >>> >>> It will be interesting to see whether or not the designers of the >>> TS-590 receiver have used a proper Gain Distribution analysis to >>> obtain optimum IMDDR3 performance, which should include every >>> "stage" or element in or which impacts on the signal path, this >>> includes L-C filters, crystal filters as well as LO phase noise. It >>> will also be interesting to see their approach to the LO, because a >>> PLL based synthesiser whose cost is within budget would probably be >>> too "noisy". >>> >>> All should be evident from the schematic when and if it becomes >>> available. >>> >>> 73, >>> >>> Geoff >>> GM4ESD >>> >>> >>> On Sunday, May 16, 2010, at 11:30 PM, Karl Marderian <[hidden email] >>>> wrote: >>> >>>> For me and all others (I maybe the only one). Does this imply the >>>> enginreers at Elcraft need to do some brushing up on designing of >>>> DSPs. >>>> Are you saying their heterodynes aren't would they should be. >>>> N6XVT 73 >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> ______________________________________________________________ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:[hidden email] >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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