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Source of NiMH cells?

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Rose

Source of NiMH cells?

I'm guilty of not paying much attention to reflector
chatter concerning batteries, as I didn't expect to
need any. (:-)

Now I have a new KX3 (S/N 4437) and find I need
a set to keep the clock running when it's off 12V.

Who's a good source?

73!

Ken - K0PP
[hidden email]
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Matt Zilmer

Re: Source of NiMH cells?

Sanyo, Tenergy, Powerex, Imedion, Panasonic, etc.

matt W6NIA

On Thu, 27 Jun 2013 18:51:22 +0000, you wrote:

>I'm guilty of not paying much attention to reflector
>chatter concerning batteries, as I didn't expect to
>need any. (:-)
>
>Now I have a new KX3 (S/N 4437) and find I need
>a set to keep the clock running when it's off 12V.
>
>Who's a good source?
>
>73!
>
>Ken - K0PP
>[hidden email]
>______________________________________________________________
>Elecraft mailing list
>Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
>This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

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WB4SON

Re: Source of NiMH cells?

In reply to this post by Rose

Hi Ken,

While higher capacity may seem better, it is sort of a false promise. The
highest capacity cells tend to have high self-discharge, which causes them
to deplete just sitting on the shelf quickly.

Look for low self-discharge batteries. Sanyo's Enerloop (~2000mah) or
Sanyo's XX (~2500mah) are two good examples. Hard to beat amazon pricing.

Enerloop are about $20 for a set of 8. XX are about $34.

73, Bob, WB4SON
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73, Bob, WB4SON

KE6BB

Re: Source of NiMH cells?

In reply to this post by Matt Zilmer

The Sanyo's are also known as Eneloops. Be sure to get 2000mah or higher capacity cells.

Mark
KE6BB

Sent from my iThingie.

On Jun 27, 2013, at 11:56 AM, Matt Zilmer <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Sanyo, Tenergy, Powerex, Imedion, Panasonic, etc.
>
> matt W6NIA
>
> On Thu, 27 Jun 2013 18:51:22 +0000, you wrote:
>
>> I'm guilty of not paying much attention to reflector
>> chatter concerning batteries, as I didn't expect to
>> need any. (:-)
>>
>> Now I have a new KX3 (S/N 4437) and find I need
>> a set to keep the clock running when it's off 12V.
>>
>> Who's a good source?
>>
>> 73!
>>
>> Ken - K0PP
>> [hidden email]
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Matt Zilmer

Re: Source of NiMH cells?

Just to be clear, there are Sanyo's Eneloops out there at retail, but
also a line of Sanyo commercial cells generally sold only as OEM
product. I had a 14.8V pack built from the latter: 39 WH - so good
for several days of KX3 CW ops.

73,
matt W6NIA

On Thu, 27 Jun 2013 12:43:07 -0700, you wrote:

>The Sanyo's are also known as Eneloops. Be sure to get 2000mah or higher capacity cells.
>
>Mark
>KE6BB
>
>Sent from my iThingie.
>
>On Jun 27, 2013, at 11:56 AM, Matt Zilmer <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Sanyo, Tenergy, Powerex, Imedion, Panasonic, etc.
>>
>> matt W6NIA
>>
>> On Thu, 27 Jun 2013 18:51:22 +0000, you wrote:
>>
>>> I'm guilty of not paying much attention to reflector
>>> chatter concerning batteries, as I didn't expect to
>>> need any. (:-)
>>>
>>> Now I have a new KX3 (S/N 4437) and find I need
>>> a set to keep the clock running when it's off 12V.
>>>
>>> Who's a good source?
>>>
>>> 73!
>>>
>>> Ken - K0PP
>>> [hidden email]
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

KE6BB

Re: Source of NiMH cells?

Correct, Matt. I am actually running Panasonic HHR210AAB cells right now, which appear to be Enelooops with a different jacket, based on my research. We used them in my work, but only recharged them a few times, so I was able to get them cheap, and they work well. I have a lot of experience with Eneloop 2000 maH cells at home...probably a more severe environment than my work! They seem to be very forgiving so long as you don't discharge them below 0.9 volts per cell.

I think early this year, we were seeing a lot of out of the box "infant mortality" with the Rayovac rechargeable NiMH cells. Not sure if that is still a problem.

Mark
KE6BB

________________________________
From: Matt Zilmer <[hidden email]>
To: Mark Petiford <[hidden email]>
Cc: Rose <[hidden email]>; Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]>
Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2013 12:51 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Source of NiMH cells?

Just to be clear, there are Sanyo's Eneloops out there at retail, but
also a line of Sanyo commercial cells generally sold only as OEM
product. I had a 14.8V pack built from the latter: 39 WH - so good
for several days of KX3 CW ops.

73,
matt W6NIA

On Thu, 27 Jun 2013 12:43:07 -0700, you wrote:

Matt Zilmer

Re: Source of NiMH cells?

Hi Mark,

You caught me in the middle a battery research project (day job) and I
found some dirt on Rayovac -literally-:ALK and NiMH both. Pretty
severe manufacturing issues, though the details about the
contamination weren't spelled out. No CPSC issues though, so they're
still in business.

It got so bad that Rayovac has to put a banner on all retail blister
packs: "Lasts As Long As Duracell" or some such.

Everyone seems pretty pleased with the Eneloops, so that's good. I
used them on the KX3 for a while, then ran a few tests and ended up
with Tenergy Premium. To each his own!

73,
matt W6NIA

On Thu, 27 Jun 2013 14:13:40 -0700 (PDT), you wrote:

>Correct, Matt. I am actually running Panasonic HHR210AAB cells right now, which appear to be Enelooops with a different jacket, based on my research. We used them in my work, but only recharged them a few times, so I was able to get them cheap, and they work well. I have a lot of experience with Eneloop 2000 maH cells at home...probably a more severe environment than my work! They seem to be very forgiving so long as you don't discharge them below 0.9 volts per cell.
>
>I think early this year, we were seeing a lot of out of the box "infant mortality" with the Rayovac rechargeable NiMH cells. Not sure if that is still a problem.
>
>Mark
>KE6BB
>
>
>
>
>________________________________
> From: Matt Zilmer <[hidden email]>
>To: Mark Petiford <[hidden email]>
>Cc: Rose <[hidden email]>; Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]>
>Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2013 12:51 PM
>Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Source of NiMH cells?
>
>
>Just to be clear, there are Sanyo's Eneloops out there at retail, but
>also a line of Sanyo commercial cells generally sold only as OEM
>product. I had a 14.8V pack built from the latter: 39 WH - so good
>for several days of KX3 CW ops.
>
>73,
>matt W6NIA
>
>On Thu, 27 Jun 2013 12:43:07 -0700, you wrote:
>
>>The Sanyo's are also known as Eneloops. Be sure to get 2000mah or higher capacity cells.
>>
>>Mark
>>KE6BB
>>
>>Sent from my iThingie.
>>
>>On Jun 27, 2013, at 11:56 AM, Matt Zilmer <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> Sanyo, Tenergy, Powerex, Imedion, Panasonic, etc.
>>>
>>> matt W6NIA
>>>
>>> On Thu, 27 Jun 2013 18:51:22 +0000, you wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'm guilty of not paying much attention to reflector
>>>> chatter concerning batteries, as I didn't expect to
>>>> need any. (:-)
>>>>
>>>> Now I have a new KX3 (S/N 4437) and find I need
>>>> a set to keep the clock running when it's off 12V.
>>>>
>>>> Who's a good source?
>>>>
>>>> 73!
>>>>
>>>> Ken - K0PP
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>>
>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>______________________________________________________________
>Elecraft mailing list
>Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
>This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Rich Heineck

Re: Source of NiMH cells?

In reply to this post by WB4SON

Ken,

If you primarily want to keep the clock alive, I think the 2000 mAH
Sanyo Eneloop are hard to beat, based on cost, availability, and self
discharge rate. I'd avoid Alkaline cells for long term use because of
the potential damage from leaking.

73,
Rich AC7MA

On 06/27/2013 11:58 AM, Bob wrote:

> Hi Ken,
>
> While higher capacity may seem better, it is sort of a false promise. The
> highest capacity cells tend to have high self-discharge, which causes them
> to deplete just sitting on the shelf quickly.
>
> Look for low self-discharge batteries. Sanyo's Enerloop (~2000mah) or
> Sanyo's XX (~2500mah) are two good examples. Hard to beat amazon pricing.
>
> Enerloop are about $20 for a set of 8. XX are about $34.
>
> 73, Bob, WB4SON
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

KE6BB

Re: Source of NiMH cells?

In reply to this post by Matt Zilmer

Matt,

That would explain why, on the Yahoo Group, we were seeing complaints of a cell or two out of eight, failing right out of the box!!! I was amazed at that.

FYI, All Electronics sells a Tenergy cell that is a D size cell with a capacity of 10,000 maH:

http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/NMH-D/NIMH-RECHARGEABLE-D-CELL-10-000MAH/1.html

I don't have one, but they do not appear to be AA cells in a D size sleeve...not with that capacity! They won't fit in a KX3, but I had thought I might build a tube of these as an external battery pack. Unfortunately, I don't think it would be much less expensive than a similar size pack of LiFePo cells. I wouldn't have to buy the balanced charger, but would have to make up a constant current charger myself...or else charge with a variable voltage power supply while manually adjusting the voltage to keep the current relatively constant. Makes the newer lithium technology look better and better.

Now, if I could just get myself to trust Lithium technology enough to charge them in my living room...

Mark
KE6BB
(Hoping someone can convince me).

________________________________
From: Matt Zilmer <[hidden email]>
To: Mark Petiford <[hidden email]>
Cc: Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]>
Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2013 2:29 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Source of NiMH cells?

Hi Mark,

You caught me in the middle a battery research project (day job) and I
found some dirt on Rayovac -literally-:ALK and NiMH both. Pretty
severe manufacturing issues, though the details about the
contamination weren't spelled out. No CPSC issues though, so they're
still in business.

It got so bad that Rayovac has to put a banner on all retail blister
packs: "Lasts As Long As Duracell" or some such.

Everyone seems pretty pleased with the Eneloops, so that's good. I
used them on the KX3 for a while, then ran a few tests and ended up
with Tenergy Premium. To each his own!

73,
matt W6NIA

On Thu, 27 Jun 2013 14:13:40 -0700 (PDT), you wrote:

Matt Zilmer

Re: Source of NiMH cells?

Yes, it isn't very pleasant to think about that failure rate. I think
Rayovac took their manufacturing to a Chinese ODM a few years ago.
Having worked in the ODM space a few years, I can appreciate the
trouble they would face with quality control. They'll probably take
the ODM down with them though. Battery makers are large scale
operations.

I had a pack built with those Sanyo industrial NMH AAs (qty 11). At
39WH, it's quite a pack. I kept the AA form factor to minimize weight
for backpacking. D cells weigh about 170g, but AAs are around 26g.

73,
matt W6NIA

On Thu, 27 Jun 2013 14:55:35 -0700 (PDT), you wrote:

>Matt,
>
>That would explain why, on the Yahoo Group, we were seeing complaints of a cell or two out of eight, failing right out of the box!!! I was amazed at that.
>
>FYI, All Electronics sells a Tenergy cell that is a D size cell with a capacity of 10,000 maH:
>
>http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/NMH-D/NIMH-RECHARGEABLE-D-CELL-10-000MAH/1.html
>
>
>I don't have one, but they do not appear to be AA cells in a D size sleeve...not with that capacity! They won't fit in a KX3, but I had thought I might build a tube of these as an external battery pack. Unfortunately, I don't think it would be much less expensive than a similar size pack of LiFePo cells. I wouldn't have to buy the balanced charger, but would have to make up a constant current charger myself...or else charge with a variable voltage power supply while manually adjusting the voltage to keep the current relatively constant. Makes the newer lithium technology look better and better.
>
>
>Now, if I could just get myself to trust Lithium technology enough to charge them in my living room...
>
>
>Mark
>KE6BB
>(Hoping someone can convince me).
>
>
>
>
>________________________________
> From: Matt Zilmer <[hidden email]>
>To: Mark Petiford <[hidden email]>
>Cc: Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]>
>Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2013 2:29 PM
>Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Source of NiMH cells?
>
>
>Hi Mark,
>
>You caught me in the middle a battery research project (day job) and I
>found some dirt on Rayovac -literally-:ALK and NiMH both. Pretty
>severe manufacturing issues, though the details about the
>contamination weren't spelled out. No CPSC issues though, so they're
>still in business.
>
>It got so bad that Rayovac has to put a banner on all retail blister
>packs: "Lasts As Long As Duracell" or some such.
>
>Everyone seems pretty pleased with the Eneloops, so that's good. I
>used them on the KX3 for a while, then ran a few tests and ended up
>with Tenergy Premium. To each his own!
>
>73,
>matt W6NIA
>
>On Thu, 27 Jun 2013 14:13:40 -0700 (PDT), you wrote:
>
>>Correct, Matt. I am actually running Panasonic HHR210AAB cells right now, which appear to be Enelooops with a different jacket, based on my research. We used them in my work, but only recharged them a few times, so I was able to get them cheap, and they work well. I have a lot of experience with Eneloop 2000 maH cells at home...probably a more severe environment than my work! They seem to be very forgiving so long as you don't discharge them below 0.9 volts per cell.
>>
>>I think early this year, we were seeing a lot of out of the box "infant mortality" with the Rayovac rechargeable NiMH cells. Not sure if that is still a problem.
>>
>>Mark
>>KE6BB
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>________________________________
>> From: Matt Zilmer <[hidden email]>
>>To: Mark Petiford <[hidden email]>
>>Cc: Rose <[hidden email]>; Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]>
>>Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2013 12:51 PM
>>Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Source of NiMH cells?
>>
>>
>>Just to be clear, there are Sanyo's Eneloops out there at retail, but
>>also a line of Sanyo commercial cells generally sold only as OEM
>>product. I had a 14.8V pack built from the latter: 39 WH - so good
>>for several days of KX3 CW ops.
>>
>>73,
>>matt W6NIA
>>
>>On Thu, 27 Jun 2013 12:43:07 -0700, you wrote:
>>
>>>The Sanyo's are also known as Eneloops. Be sure to get 2000mah or higher capacity cells.
>>>
>>>Mark
>>>KE6BB
>>>
>>>Sent from my iThingie.
>>>
>>>On Jun 27, 2013, at 11:56 AM, Matt Zilmer <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Sanyo, Tenergy, Powerex, Imedion, Panasonic, etc.
>>>>
>>>> matt W6NIA
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, 27 Jun 2013 18:51:22 +0000, you wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I'm guilty of not paying much attention to reflector
>>>>> chatter concerning batteries, as I didn't expect to
>>>>> need any. (:-)
>>>>>
>>>>> Now I have a new KX3 (S/N 4437) and find I need
>>>>> a set to keep the clock running when it's off 12V.
>>>>>
>>>>> Who's a good source?
>>>>>
>>>>> 73!
>>>>>
>>>>> Ken - K0PP
>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>>>
>>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>>
>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>______________________________________________________________
>>Elecraft mailing list
>>Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>>This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Arno Dienhart

Re: Source of NiMH cells?

In reply to this post by Rose

>>I think early this year, we were seeing a lot of out of the box "infant
mortality" with the Rayovac rechargeable NiMH cells.? Not sure if that is
still a problem.<<

FTR, I bought two 4-packs of the Rayovac Platinum (2Ah, slow discharge, like
Eneloop) in May and all eight were fine, with equal voltage after one
charge.

To the OP, if with "source" you meant the source and not the brand, try
BatteriesAmerica.com or Battieries +, just to name two.

______________________________________________________________
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Post: mailto:[hidden email]

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