Split DX
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I've not ever really worked a split DX station and ever since getting the K1
I've been working on building up my CW skills. I've gotten to where I can get the jist of the info at 14WPM w/ 20WPM char speeds. I've heard frequencies where it seems like nothing is going on and then all of the sudden 10 stations light up. I'm assuming that this is a split DX and I'm only hearing half of it. But anyway it doesn't make much sense to me. So granted a station can listen to both frequencies at once and I'm sure transmitting station is probably only listening when he's not transmitting (unless he has two separate radios and two separate antennas). This just seems like a waste of bandwidth especially if he's not doing full duplex. Is there a common split distance so that one may easily find the other half or do people usually just go digging till they find it? _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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Brett,
The purpose of operating "split" is to keep the the calling stations off the DX stations frequency. Given the fact that not all stations are going to call for the same length of time often the DX station will answer a station before the rest of the pack is finished calling making it very difficult if not impossible for the station he returned to hear HIS call returned. Secondly, if the DX sation specifies a split frequency range, it allows the DX station to take advantage of signals spread over a few kHz rather than all bunched on a single frequency. 73, Doug W6JD -------------- Original message -------------- From: "Brett Howard" <[hidden email]> > I've not ever really worked a split DX station and ever since getting the K1 > I've been working on building up my CW skills. I've gotten to where I can > get the jist of the info at 14WPM w/ 20WPM char speeds. > > > > I've heard frequencies where it seems like nothing is going on and then all > of the sudden 10 stations light up. I'm assuming that this is a split DX > and I'm only hearing half of it. > > > > But anyway it doesn't make much sense to me. So granted a station can > listen to both frequencies at once and I'm sure transmitting station is > probably only listening when he's not transmitting (unless he has two > separate radios and two separate antennas). This just seems like a waste of > bandwidth especially if he's not doing full duplex. > > > > Is there a common split distance so that one may easily find the other half > or do people usually just go digging till they find it? > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Post to: [hidden email] > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Brett Howard
Brett,
Stations work split so that their signal will not be obscured by those stations calling them. The station calling cq is transmitting on one frequency and listeing on another. With some transcievers it is possible to listen on both frequencies simultaneously. However, many will only listen on their transmit frequency periodically. There is on standard split that I am aware of. Hovever, you hear +1, +2, +5 and +7 frequently. Sometimes the split will be down -1, -5 etc. The + and - mean kHz above or below the stations transmit frequency. The station calling cq should transmit the split information frequently, otherwise it is difficult for the calling stations to determine where to transmit. For example VP6DX (Ducie Island) operators are doing a great job if you listen you will hear something like this CQ CQ VP6DX UP 7, or VP6DX QRZ QSX u 25. Sometimes the station provides a range of the split - up 5 to 10, dwn 2 to 3 etc. You will also hear simply up or down - which means direction from the transmit frequency and it is up to the stations calling to choose where they will transmit. Splits for SSB are usually greater than those for CW, RTTY etc. I hope this simple explanation helps. I am sure many others will provied additional information. 73, Robie AJ4F On Fri, Feb 22, 2008 at 12:28 PM, Brett Howard <[hidden email]> wrote: > I've not ever really worked a split DX station and ever since getting the K1 > I've been working on building up my CW skills. I've gotten to where I can > get the jist of the info at 14WPM w/ 20WPM char speeds. > > > > I've heard frequencies where it seems like nothing is going on and then all > of the sudden 10 stations light up. I'm assuming that this is a split DX > and I'm only hearing half of it. > > > > But anyway it doesn't make much sense to me. So granted a station can > listen to both frequencies at once and I'm sure transmitting station is > probably only listening when he's not transmitting (unless he has two > separate radios and two separate antennas). This just seems like a waste of > bandwidth especially if he's not doing full duplex. > > > > Is there a common split distance so that one may easily find the other half > or do people usually just go digging till they find it? > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Post to: [hidden email] > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com > Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Brett Howard
Brett,
talking about operating split......... let me recommend a great little book... by an ex neighbor, a fellow Elecraft owner, and THE guy who "wrote the book" on DXing. The Complete DXer by Bob Locher...w9kni http://www.eham.net/reviews/detail/3363 http://www.idiompress.com/books-complete-dxer.html IF you wish to become proficient at DXing.... this is the fastest education you can get. bill At 12:28 PM 2/22/2008, you wrote: >I've not ever really worked a split DX station _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Brett Howard
These are the posted CW offsets (in kHz) that VP6DX is using:
CW 160m 1827.3 +7 80m 3502.5 +25 40m 7002.5 +25 30m 10106.5 +7 20m 14002.5 +25 17m 18072.5 +7 15m 21002.5 +25 12m 24892.5 +7 10m 28002.5 +25 6m 50105 +7 501 They change once in a while depending on conditions but they usually announce where they are listening. Many DX stations will simply say "up". This is where the "split" mode comes in. Use VFO A to listen to the DX station. Use VFO B to find the station that he is working and get on or near to that frequency, which can be from 1 to 3 kHz above or more. Once you master this technique, you can perfectly zero beat the station that the DX just worked, or move a little up or down to get away from the other callers. I find it a lot of fun, and worked VP6DX last night with 10W on 80m under noisy conditions. The K2 (and K3) excel in this mode of operation. Neither the K1 nor the KX1 have this "split" capability. RIT and XIT may work under some conditions but it is not nearly as flexible. 72, John W2XS KX1 (S/N 015 and S/N 925) w/KXPD1, KXAT1, KXB30 K2 (S/N 1116) w/KAT2, KSB2, K160RX, KIO2, KBT2, KNB2, KAF2, FDIMP T4X (S/N 11116) K3/100 (S/N TBD in April, I hope) w/KAT3, KBPF3, KUSB, KFL3A-200, 500, 2.7K, 6K HexKey (S/N 113 ) DL1, BL1, BL2, N-gen, XG1, W1, BNC-MM
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In reply to this post by Brett Howard
Brett:
There are several sensible reasons why a DX station works spilt. When he makes a call he is likely to receive several (often many) simultaneous replies, commonly called a pileup. By asking callers to call "UP" (you almost never hear "DOWN"), the callers are spread out over a range of frequencies rather than all calling on one frequency. This increases the likelihood that the DX can quickly pull out a recognizable callsign from the cacophony. Just as important, if the DX does not work split, everyone is making repeated calls on his frequency and most callers will not hear when he actually does reply to someone. Thus, many callers will unintentionally interfere with a QSO that they do not realize is already under way. Also, with many callers on the DX station's frequency, it is hard (if not impossible) to hear any instructions from the DX station (e.g, Wait 5 minutes while I refuel the generator.). If you are working split and QSK, you can recognize immediately when the DX is answering someone else, and then stop calling until that QSO is finished. It is critical that the DX station transmit on a clear frequency if he/she wants to control the pileup. They cannot maintain control if nobody can hear their instructions over the QRM. Thus, I have no sympathy for DX stations that run simplex and are not able to control the pileup. It is also critical that nobody else call on the DX stations transmit frequency. The "tuner uppers", the lids who ignore the "UP" instruction and call simplex, and most especially the "UP police" simply impede the orderly operation of the pileup. Of all these bad actors, the "UP police" are by far the worst. When you are on an "empty" frequency and you suddenly hear 10 (only 10?) stations all "light up" at once, you are undoubtedly hearing the reply end of a pileup. There is no advantage to the DX station to run full duplex. He has no need to hear what is happening on his transmit frequency. The worst thing he can do is to reply to someone calling on his frequency. This rewards bad behavior on the part of the lids, attracts a bunch of other callers to his transmit frequency, and consequently destroys the advantage that the DX had achieved by getting the callers to work split to begin with. Split operation is one of those counter-intuitive things. It only seems to waste bandwidth. A well run split pileup (such as any operation run by G3TXF) will rapidly and efficiently provide a great many contacts in a minimal amount of operating time. Think of the product of occupied bandwidth multiplied by operating time required to work a given number of contacts. Split operation will consistently produce a much smaller bandwidth-time product than a simplex operation. Considering that a major DXpedition makes between 30,000 and 100,000 contacts, that efficiency is critical. There is no commonly accepted split frequency. Many DX stations will suggest an approximate split (e.g. VP6DX most commonly says UP 25.) There is a great advantage if you can switch VFOs rapidly and listen as the DX works a number of stations. The good DX stations will use a unique but recognizable pattern is selecting frequencies to listen to. If you can figure out the pattern, you can easily land on a frequency on which he is listening, but nobody else is transmitting. In which case, you get an easy QSO with a rare station. If you're having trouble figuring out where he is listening, call up the Telnet spots on a computer (any logging program makes this easy to do.). Many successful operators will post the spilts on which they successfully worked the DX. 73, Steve Kercel AA4AK At 01:28 PM 2/22/2008, Brett Howard wrote: >I've not ever really worked a split DX station and ever since getting the K1 >I've been working on building up my CW skills. I've gotten to where I can >get the jist of the info at 14WPM w/ 20WPM char speeds. > > > >I've heard frequencies where it seems like nothing is going on and then all >of the sudden 10 stations light up. I'm assuming that this is a split DX >and I'm only hearing half of it. > > > >But anyway it doesn't make much sense to me. So granted a station can >listen to both frequencies at once and I'm sure transmitting station is >probably only listening when he's not transmitting (unless he has two >separate radios and two separate antennas). This just seems like a waste of >bandwidth especially if he's not doing full duplex. > > > >Is there a common split distance so that one may easily find the other half >or do people usually just go digging till they find it? > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Elecraft mailing list >Post to: [hidden email] >You must be a subscriber to post to the list. >Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > >Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm >Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Bill Steffey NY9H
We carry 'The Complete DX'er' at Elecraft :-)
See our books order page: http://www.elecraft.com/books/books.htm 73, Eric WA6HHQ ==== Bill NY9H wrote: > let me recommend a great little book... by an ex neighbor, a fellow > Elecraft owner, > and THE guy who "wrote the book" on DXing. > The Complete DXer by Bob Locher...w9kni > > http://www.eham.net/reviews/detail/3363 > === > At 12:28 PM 2/22/2008, you wrote: >> I've not ever really worked a split DX station _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Brett Howard
Hi Brett:
>I've heard frequencies where it seems like nothing is going on and then all >of the sudden 10 stations light up. I'm assuming that this is a split DX >and I'm only hearing half of it. That's almost certainly what you're hearing... the end that the DX station is listening to... called 'the piluep'... >But anyway it doesn't make much sense to me. So granted a station can >listen to both frequencies at once and I'm sure transmitting station is >probably only listening when he's not transmitting (unless he has two >separate radios and two separate antennas). This just seems like a >waste of bandwidth especially if he's not doing full duplex. It's a matter of the DX station being able to BE HEARD once a pileup of callers has grown. If the DX station is working everyone 'simplex' (e.g. on his transmit frequency), it won't take long before many of the calling stations start (0r continue) calling the DX station long after he has already picked out a station and is attempting to complete a contact with that station. However, due to the fact that a number of callers continue to call ON TOP of the DX station, no one can hear the DX station, or at least can't hear him well enough to complete the QSO... so everyone continues to call and the DX continues to try to work (or pick out) a single station from those calling ON HIS FREQUENCY. If however the DX says he's listening "UP 5", "UP 10", or "Up wherever", he then is able to move the callers (the pileup) off of HIS transmit frequency, so that all the callers can hear him when he responds to a calling station. Additionally, the pileup will naturally spread out a bit (generally around a central listening frequency) so the DX operator will be able to tune through the pileup, picking out individual callers and (generally) working them at a much faster rate. There have been really excellent ops in the past who could 'handle' an on-frequency pileup as swiftly as those working split, but those ops are few and generally far between. The next effort for the DX operator is to not allow his pileup to become 1) too unruly, and 2) too widely spread out such that it covers too wide an amount of the spectrum. Most times, a goos CW op can keep his pileup mostly contained within 5-7 kHz without too much difficulty. The exception sometimes being when it's a really rare country and there are (literally) several hundred, or more, callers all screaming at once. >Is there a common split distance so that one may easily find the other >half or do people usually just go digging till they find it? Generally "UP 5" is a very commonly used split. I believe the VP6DX crew is using WIDE splits in order to keep THEIR signal well out of any QRM from callers, and to keep it from being too close to the upper band edge of the US extra class bands. They have been specifying splits which allow all classes of licensee to call them... the calling split freq being just a few kHz above the bottom of the General Class band segment. 73, Tom Hammond N0SS _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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Which brings us to The Complete DXer. OK, coming from a novice--the sport
of breaking a pile up is listening to the DX, identifying who just got called, finding that op's frequency, and then learning how the DX is moving after the contact, and being in the right place so be called next. The pileup gets spread out by the DX moving his RX frequency after each QSO (keeping his TX frequency constant). You could just sit on one frequency and call till the DX goes home or you get lucky, or you could take Bob's advice and develop skills described quite well in the book. Being a new ham and new to DXing, and having read Bob's book--it was a real thrill to make one call contacts in major pileups with 100 watts from an IC-718 and a low dipole. Even better with a K2 or K3, but I did not know better then (2002-3, near the top of the solar cycle)<grin>. Also helps to understand a bit about propagation and pick your best chances. Rich NU6T -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]]On Behalf Of Tom Hammond Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 2:14 PM To: Brett Howard; [hidden email] Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Split DX Hi Brett: >I've heard frequencies where it seems like nothing is going on and then all >of the sudden 10 stations light up. I'm assuming that this is a split DX >and I'm only hearing half of it. That's almost certainly what you're hearing... the end that the DX station is listening to... called 'the piluep'... >But anyway it doesn't make much sense to me. So granted a station can >listen to both frequencies at once and I'm sure transmitting station is >probably only listening when he's not transmitting (unless he has two >separate radios and two separate antennas). This just seems like a >waste of bandwidth especially if he's not doing full duplex. It's a matter of the DX station being able to BE HEARD once a pileup of callers has grown. If the DX station is working everyone 'simplex' (e.g. on his transmit frequency), it won't take long before many of the calling stations start (0r continue) calling the DX station long after he has already picked out a station and is attempting to complete a contact with that station. However, due to the fact that a number of callers continue to call ON TOP of the DX station, no one can hear the DX station, or at least can't hear him well enough to complete the QSO... so everyone continues to call and the DX continues to try to work (or pick out) a single station from those calling ON HIS FREQUENCY. If however the DX says he's listening "UP 5", "UP 10", or "Up wherever", he then is able to move the callers (the pileup) off of HIS transmit frequency, so that all the callers can hear him when he responds to a calling station. Additionally, the pileup will naturally spread out a bit (generally around a central listening frequency) so the DX operator will be able to tune through the pileup, picking out individual callers and (generally) working them at a much faster rate. There have been really excellent ops in the past who could 'handle' an on-frequency pileup as swiftly as those working split, but those ops are few and generally far between. The next effort for the DX operator is to not allow his pileup to become 1) too unruly, and 2) too widely spread out such that it covers too wide an amount of the spectrum. Most times, a goos CW op can keep his pileup mostly contained within 5-7 kHz without too much difficulty. The exception sometimes being when it's a really rare country and there are (literally) several hundred, or more, callers all screaming at once. >Is there a common split distance so that one may easily find the other >half or do people usually just go digging till they find it? Generally "UP 5" is a very commonly used split. I believe the VP6DX crew is using WIDE splits in order to keep THEIR signal well out of any QRM from callers, and to keep it from being too close to the upper band edge of the US extra class bands. They have been specifying splits which allow all classes of licensee to call them... the calling split freq being just a few kHz above the bottom of the General Class band segment. 73, Tom Hammond N0SS _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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There is another very good reason for split operation, and I've seen
the VP6DX ops doing this successfully as well. With, for example, the 20-, 40- and 75/80-meter allocations being different for hams in the various parts of the world, it's not unusual at all to see the DX station calling from whatever their particular mode's sub-band might allow, and attempting to work ops in other parts of the world that are restricted to a different frequency range. It's also very common to see a DX station purposely working split from a sub-band that is restricted to higher-class licensees just to keep down the on-channel QRM, staying, for example, in the less-crowded Extra CW bands. A week ago, I worked VP6DX on 40 meters SSB late at night. The German op was calling on 7095, which is restricted to non-voice modes in most of the non-Pacific US, announcing he was listening on 7265, or wherever the broadcast QRM was the lightest. Interestingly, since traffic was quite light, he announced that he was also listening on 7087 for EU hams. He ping-pong'ed us all back and forth, taking one from 7265, then one from 7087. On 15 meters, VP6DX was transmitting on 21002, in the Extra portion of the band, and listening on 21027, where non-Extras could call, etc. 73, Dave K7DAA http://www.k7daa.com On Feb 22, 2008, at 2:51 PM, Richard HIll wrote: > Which brings us to The Complete DXer. OK, coming from a novice--the > sport > of breaking a pile up is listening to the DX, identifying who just got > called, finding that op's frequency, and then learning how the DX is > moving > after the contact, and being in the right place so be called next. > > The pileup gets spread out by the DX moving his RX frequency after > each QSO > (keeping his TX frequency constant). You could just sit on one > frequency > and call till the DX goes home or you get lucky, or you could take > Bob's > advice and develop skills described quite well in the book. > > Being a new ham and new to DXing, and having read Bob's book--it was > a real > thrill to make one call contacts in major pileups with 100 watts > from an > IC-718 and a low dipole. Even better with a K2 or K3, but I did not > know > better then (2002-3, near the top of the solar cycle)<grin>. > > Also helps to understand a bit about propagation and pick your best > chances. > > Rich > NU6T > > -----Original Message----- > From: [hidden email] > [mailto:[hidden email]]On Behalf Of Tom Hammond > Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 2:14 PM > To: Brett Howard; [hidden email] > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Split DX > > > Hi Brett: > >> I've heard frequencies where it seems like nothing is going on and >> then all >> of the sudden 10 stations light up. I'm assuming that this is a >> split DX >> and I'm only hearing half of it. > > That's almost certainly what you're hearing... the end that the DX > station is listening to... called 'the piluep'... > >> But anyway it doesn't make much sense to me. So granted a station >> can >> listen to both frequencies at once and I'm sure transmitting >> station is >> probably only listening when he's not transmitting (unless he has two >> separate radios and two separate antennas). This just seems like a >> waste of bandwidth especially if he's not doing full duplex. > > It's a matter of the DX station being able to BE HEARD once a pileup > of > callers has grown. > > If the DX station is working everyone 'simplex' (e.g. on his transmit > frequency), it won't take long before many of the calling stations > start > (0r continue) calling the DX station long after he has already > picked out > a station and is attempting to complete a contact with that station. > However, due to the fact that a number of callers continue to call > ON TOP > of the DX station, no one can hear the DX station, or at least can't > hear > him well enough to complete the QSO... so everyone continues to call > and > the DX continues to try to work (or pick out) a single station from > those > calling ON HIS FREQUENCY. > > If however the DX says he's listening "UP 5", "UP 10", or "Up > wherever", > he then is able to move the callers (the pileup) off of HIS transmit > frequency, so that all the callers can hear him when he responds to a > calling station. Additionally, the pileup will naturally spread out a > bit (generally around a central listening frequency) so the DX > operator > will be able to tune through the pileup, picking out individual > callers > and (generally) working them at a much faster rate. > > There have been really excellent ops in the past who could 'handle' an > on-frequency pileup as swiftly as those working split, but those ops > are > few and generally far between. > > The next effort for the DX operator is to not allow his pileup to > become > 1) too unruly, and 2) too widely spread out such that it covers too > wide > an amount of the spectrum. Most times, a goos CW op can keep his > pileup > mostly contained within 5-7 kHz without too much difficulty. The > exception > sometimes being when it's a really rare country and there are > (literally) > several hundred, or more, callers all screaming at once. > >> Is there a common split distance so that one may easily find the >> other >> half or do people usually just go digging till they find it? > > Generally "UP 5" is a very commonly used split. I believe the VP6DX > crew > is using WIDE splits in order to keep THEIR signal well out of any QRM > from callers, and to keep it from being too close to the upper band > edge > of the US extra class bands. They have been specifying splits which > allow > all classes of licensee to call them... the calling split freq being > just a few kHz above the bottom of the General Class band segment. > > 73, > > Tom Hammond N0SS > > _______________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Post to: [hidden email] > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com > > > _______________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Post to: [hidden email] > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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