Elecraft

Split N/A

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Frank Westphal

Split N/A

Every time I change modes from CW to RTTY or RTTY to CW I get the Split
N/A error message. I do not get this message when changing modes from
CW to SSB or SSB to CW. Since I am primarily a DXer who works split
having to change from split operation before mode change and then change
back to split operation requires a whole lot of button pushing. This is
extremely annoying almost to he point of considering selling the K3.
Elecraft told me this was for my own protection. I don't need a company
to tell me this is for my own protection and not willing to make a
product easy to operate. I hope someone out there is radio land has a
firmware fix for this annoying issue. Otherwise I have enjoyed
operating the K3 for the last year.

Thanks in advance.

Frank
K6FW

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gm3sek

Re: Split N/A

I agree. There are only two valid reasons for a transceiver refusing to
obey a direct operator command: to avoid physical damage, or to avoid
transmitting illegally out-of-band.

So when the operator presses the SPLIT button, the transceiver should do
as it's told! Every other make of transceiver will do that, and will
automatically reset the second VFO (or second RX) to the same band and
mode as the main. Most will also allow the operator to program an
automatic frequency offset to eliminate any possibility of transmitting
on top of the DX station.

Those "Smart Split" options have evolved into an industry standard for a
very good reason: it is what users need and expect. The K3 is not being
uniquely smart in behaving differently... just uniquely ignorant of the
way that SPLIT is used in real life.

Please don't anybody say "Use a macro" - I wrote my own Smart Split
macro on the first day that facility was released. But the point is: I
shouldn't have needed to do that. Industry-standard options like Smart
Split should have been part of the K3's core firmware since version
1.0.0.0.

Sigh... seven years down the line, I can't believe we're still needing
to beg for something that is so industry-standard and so obvious.

73 from Ian GM3SEK

>-----Original Message-----
>From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
>Frank Westphal
>Sent: 02 October 2014 07:03
>To: [hidden email]
>Subject: [Elecraft] Split N/A
>
>Every time I change modes from CW to RTTY or RTTY to CW I get the Split
>N/A error message. I do not get this message when changing modes from
>CW to SSB or SSB to CW. Since I am primarily a DXer who works split
>having to change from split operation before mode change and then

change
>back to split operation requires a whole lot of button pushing. This
is
>extremely annoying almost to he point of considering selling the K3.
>Elecraft told me this was for my own protection. I don't need a
company
>to tell me this is for my own protection and not willing to make a
>product easy to operate. I hope someone out there is radio land has a
>firmware fix for this annoying issue. Otherwise I have enjoyed
>operating the K3 for the last year.
>
>Thanks in advance.
>
>Frank
>K6FW

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Dick WIlliams

Re: Split N/A

In reply to this post by Frank Westphal

Frank,

Like yourself, I do quite a bit of DX RTTY operation using split, and to
tell you the truth, I just tried what you are talking about, and you are
right! To me honest with you, I hadn't noticed it before because I have a
nasty habit of "double pushing" the SPLIT button before holding it to engage
split. This relative simple operation of double pushing the SPLIT button
transfers everything from A to B; then pushing the SPLIT button works just
fine.

Am curious what "a whole lot of button pushing" means to you? Personally,
I don't consider double pushing the same button I use to go split once,
before holding the same button to be "extremely annoying". And I do not
have any issue with the K3 not going split with RTTY on one freq and CW/SSB
on the other. You have to admit operating RTTY and SSB/CW split is not
exactly a common mode. SSB and CW split (though not common) does occur.

In any case, I hope you do not "dump" your K3 because you find a double
push, and then a "hold" to be that much of an annoyance.

Dick, K8ZTT

-----Original Message-----
From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Frank
Westphal
Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2014 12:03 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Elecraft] Split N/A

Every time I change modes from CW to RTTY or RTTY to CW I get the Split N/A
error message. I do not get this message when changing modes from
CW to SSB or SSB to CW. Since I am primarily a DXer who works split
having to change from split operation before mode change and then change
back to split operation requires a whole lot of button pushing. This is
extremely annoying almost to he point of considering selling the K3.
Elecraft told me this was for my own protection. I don't need a company to
tell me this is for my own protection and not willing to make a product easy
to operate. I hope someone out there is radio land has a firmware fix for
this annoying issue. Otherwise I have enjoyed operating the K3 for the last
year.

Thanks in advance.

Frank
K6FW

-----Original Message-----
From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Frank
Westphal
Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2014 12:03 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Elecraft] Split N/A

Every time I change modes from CW to RTTY or RTTY to CW I get the Split N/A
error message. I do not get this message when changing modes from
CW to SSB or SSB to CW. Since I am primarily a DXer who works split
having to change from split operation before mode change and then change
back to split operation requires a whole lot of button pushing. This is
extremely annoying almost to he point of considering selling the K3.
Elecraft told me this was for my own protection. I don't need a company to
tell me this is for my own protection and not willing to make a product easy
to operate. I hope someone out there is radio land has a firmware fix for
this annoying issue. Otherwise I have enjoyed operating the K3 for the last
year.

Thanks in advance.

Frank
K6FW

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Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: Split N/A

> And I do not have any issue with the K3 not going split with RTTY on
> one freq and CW/SSB on the other. You have to admit operating RTTY
> and SSB/CW split is not exactly a common mode.

However, it would be appropriate when initiating SPLIT from the A->B
button that VFO B mode be forced to that of VFO A if VFO A is digital
and the frequency of VFO B be forced to that of VFO A if VFO B is on
a different band rather than SPLIT N/A.

Unlike Ian, I would not want the VFO B *frequency* changed (e.g., Quick
Split) as long as it was on the current band since I'm just as likely
to have set it manually even if I have not set the mode and the "Smart
Split" splits will invariably be different mode to mode (up 1 in CW,
UP 2 in RTTY, UP 5 in SSB, etc.) and band to band.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 2014-10-02 11:13 AM, Dick wrote:

> Frank,
>
> Like yourself, I do quite a bit of DX RTTY operation using split, and to
> tell you the truth, I just tried what you are talking about, and you are
> right! To me honest with you, I hadn't noticed it before because I have a
> nasty habit of "double pushing" the SPLIT button before holding it to engage
> split. This relative simple operation of double pushing the SPLIT button
> transfers everything from A to B; then pushing the SPLIT button works just
> fine.
>
> Am curious what "a whole lot of button pushing" means to you? Personally,
> I don't consider double pushing the same button I use to go split once,
> before holding the same button to be "extremely annoying". And I do not
> have any issue with the K3 not going split with RTTY on one freq and CW/SSB
> on the other. You have to admit operating RTTY and SSB/CW split is not
> exactly a common mode. SSB and CW split (though not common) does occur.
>
> In any case, I hope you do not "dump" your K3 because you find a double
> push, and then a "hold" to be that much of an annoyance.
>
> Dick, K8ZTT
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Frank
> Westphal
> Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2014 12:03 AM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: [Elecraft] Split N/A
>
> Every time I change modes from CW to RTTY or RTTY to CW I get the Split N/A
> error message. I do not get this message when changing modes from
> CW to SSB or SSB to CW. Since I am primarily a DXer who works split
> having to change from split operation before mode change and then change
> back to split operation requires a whole lot of button pushing. This is
> extremely annoying almost to he point of considering selling the K3.
> Elecraft told me this was for my own protection. I don't need a company to
> tell me this is for my own protection and not willing to make a product easy
> to operate. I hope someone out there is radio land has a firmware fix for
> this annoying issue. Otherwise I have enjoyed operating the K3 for the last
> year.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Frank
> K6FW
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Frank
> Westphal
> Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2014 12:03 AM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: [Elecraft] Split N/A
>
> Every time I change modes from CW to RTTY or RTTY to CW I get the Split N/A
> error message. I do not get this message when changing modes from
> CW to SSB or SSB to CW. Since I am primarily a DXer who works split
> having to change from split operation before mode change and then change
> back to split operation requires a whole lot of button pushing. This is
> extremely annoying almost to he point of considering selling the K3.
> Elecraft told me this was for my own protection. I don't need a company to
> tell me this is for my own protection and not willing to make a product easy
> to operate. I hope someone out there is radio land has a firmware fix for
> this annoying issue. Otherwise I have enjoyed operating the K3 for the last
> year.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Frank
> K6FW
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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> delivered to [hidden email]
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
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> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

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Bill Frantz

Re: Split N/A

In reply to this post by Dick WIlliams

I must say, push-push-hold is a reflex for me whenever working
split, SSB/RTTY/CW. My only problem is pressing the wrong button
-- V->M instead of A->B. HIHI It overwrites one of the memories.
This error comes from having my computer and P3SVGA screens at
right angles to the K3. Sometimes i'm pushing buttons by feel,
especially if it has gotten dark and I haven't turned on a light.

One question though, does anyone work cross-band split? I heard
a W1AW portable operator enforce his "DX only" by listening for
SSB in the middle of the US CW/data-only portion of the band.
Going cross band might also have obscure uses.

73 Bill AE6JV

On 10/2/14 at 8:13 AM, [hidden email] (Dick) wrote:

>Like yourself, I do quite a bit of DX RTTY operation using split, and to
>tell you the truth, I just tried what you are talking about, and you are
>right! To me honest with you, I hadn't noticed it before because I have a
>nasty habit of "double pushing" the SPLIT button before holding it to engage
>split. This relative simple operation of double pushing the SPLIT button
>transfers everything from A to B; then pushing the SPLIT button works just
>fine.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Frantz | QRP: So you can talk about | Periwinkle
(408)356-8506 | the ones that got away. | 16345
Englewood Ave
www.pwpconsult.com | | Los Gatos,
CA 95032

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gm3sek

Re: Split N/A

In reply to this post by Joe Subich, W4TV-4

The reason for programming a default "smart split" is to move the TX VFO
*away* from the frequency of the DX station. "How far to move?" is a
secondary issue.

No single value of frequency offset can be optimum for all modes, but
anything is better than leaving it at zero! As a frequent user of Split
for CW and RTTY, but only very rarely on SSB, I have found +3kHz a very
acceptable compromise. Obviously it isn't perfect; but remember it is
only a starting-point for tuning the pileup, so the exact value isn't
hugely important.

The main point is: the default Split offset should *never, never* be
zero... and that is exactly where the K3 gets it wrong. When the user
double-presses A>B to escape from the "SPLIT N/A" situation, it brings
both VFOs onto the same frequency - leaving the user only one step away
from accidentally calling on top of the DX station.

Other transceiver manufacturers recognise the need for better protection
against that hugely embarrassing mistake, which is why Smart Split has
become an industry standard. With one notable exception.

73 from Ian GM3SEK

>-----Original Message-----
>From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
Joe

>Subich, W4TV
>Sent: 02 October 2014 17:48
>To: [hidden email]
>Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Split N/A
>
>
>> And I do not have any issue with the K3 not going split with RTTY on
>> one freq and CW/SSB on the other. You have to admit operating RTTY
>> and SSB/CW split is not exactly a common mode.
>
>However, it would be appropriate when initiating SPLIT from the A->B
>button that VFO B mode be forced to that of VFO A if VFO A is digital
>and the frequency of VFO B be forced to that of VFO A if VFO B is on
>a different band rather than SPLIT N/A.
>
>Unlike Ian, I would not want the VFO B *frequency* changed (e.g., Quick
>Split) as long as it was on the current band since I'm just as likely
>to have set it manually even if I have not set the mode and the "Smart
>Split" splits will invariably be different mode to mode (up 1 in CW,
>UP 2 in RTTY, UP 5 in SSB, etc.) and band to band.
>
>73,
>
> ... Joe, W4TV
>
>
>On 2014-10-02 11:13 AM, Dick wrote:
>> Frank,
>>
>> Like yourself, I do quite a bit of DX RTTY operation using split, and

to
>> tell you the truth, I just tried what you are talking about, and you
are
>> right! To me honest with you, I hadn't noticed it before because I
have a
>> nasty habit of "double pushing" the SPLIT button before holding it to
>engage
>> split. This relative simple operation of double pushing the SPLIT
button
>> transfers everything from A to B; then pushing the SPLIT button works
just
>> fine.
>>
>> Am curious what "a whole lot of button pushing" means to you?
>Personally,
>> I don't consider double pushing the same button I use to go split
once,
>> before holding the same button to be "extremely annoying". And I do
not
>> have any issue with the K3 not going split with RTTY on one freq and
>CW/SSB
>> on the other. You have to admit operating RTTY and SSB/CW split is
not
>> exactly a common mode. SSB and CW split (though not common) does
>occur.
>>
>> In any case, I hope you do not "dump" your K3 because you find a
double

>> push, and then a "hold" to be that much of an annoyance.
>>
>> Dick, K8ZTT
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
>Frank
>> Westphal
>> Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2014 12:03 AM
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Subject: [Elecraft] Split N/A
>>
>> Every time I change modes from CW to RTTY or RTTY to CW I get the

>last
>> year.
>>
>> Thanks in advance.
>>
>> Frank
>> K6FW
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
>Frank
>> Westphal
>> Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2014 12:03 AM
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Subject: [Elecraft] Split N/A
>>
>> Every time I change modes from CW to RTTY or RTTY to CW I get the

Split
>N/A
>> error message. I do not get this message when changing modes from
>> CW to SSB or SSB to CW. Since I am primarily a DXer who works split
>> having to change from split operation before mode change and then
>change
>> back to split operation requires a whole lot of button pushing. This
is
>> extremely annoying almost to he point of considering selling the K3.
>> Elecraft told me this was for my own protection. I don't need a
company
>to
>> tell me this is for my own protection and not willing to make a
product
>easy
>> to operate. I hope someone out there is radio land has a firmware
fix for
>> this annoying issue. Otherwise I have enjoyed operating the K3 for
the
>last
>> year.
>>
>> Thanks in advance.
>>
>> Frank
>> K6FW

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Ken Chandler

Re: Split N/A

I'll agree with that Ian, set it a 3KHz, then let the user define his own split offset once split is activated.

Ken.. G0ORH

Sent from my iPad

> On 3 Oct 2014, at 09:11, Ian White <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> The reason for programming a default "smart split" is to move the TX VFO
> *away* from the frequency of the DX station. "How far to move?" is a
> secondary issue.
>
> No single value of frequency offset can be optimum for all modes, but
> anything is better than leaving it at zero! As a frequent user of Split
> for CW and RTTY, but only very rarely on SSB, I have found +3kHz a very
> acceptable compromise. Obviously it isn't perfect; but remember it is
> only a starting-point for tuning the pileup, so the exact value isn't
> hugely important.
>
> The main point is: the default Split offset should *never, never* be
> zero... and that is exactly where the K3 gets it wrong. When the user
> double-presses A>B to escape from the "SPLIT N/A" situation, it brings
> both VFOs onto the same frequency - leaving the user only one step away
> from accidentally calling on top of the DX station.
>
> Other transceiver manufacturers recognise the need for better protection
> against that hugely embarrassing mistake, which is why Smart Split has
> become an industry standard. With one notable exception.
>
>
> 73 from Ian GM3SEK
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
> Joe
>> Subich, W4TV
>> Sent: 02 October 2014 17:48
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Split N/A
>>
>>
>>> And I do not have any issue with the K3 not going split with RTTY on
>>> one freq and CW/SSB on the other. You have to admit operating RTTY
>>> and SSB/CW split is not exactly a common mode.
>>
>> However, it would be appropriate when initiating SPLIT from the A->B
>> button that VFO B mode be forced to that of VFO A if VFO A is digital
>> and the frequency of VFO B be forced to that of VFO A if VFO B is on
>> a different band rather than SPLIT N/A.
>>
>> Unlike Ian, I would not want the VFO B *frequency* changed (e.g., Quick
>> Split) as long as it was on the current band since I'm just as likely
>> to have set it manually even if I have not set the mode and the "Smart
>> Split" splits will invariably be different mode to mode (up 1 in CW,
>> UP 2 in RTTY, UP 5 in SSB, etc.) and band to band.
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> ... Joe, W4TV
>>
>>
>>> On 2014-10-02 11:13 AM, Dick wrote:
>>> Frank,
>>>
>>> Like yourself, I do quite a bit of DX RTTY operation using split, and
> to
>>> tell you the truth, I just tried what you are talking about, and you
> are
>>> right! To me honest with you, I hadn't noticed it before because I
> have a
>>> nasty habit of "double pushing" the SPLIT button before holding it to
>> engage
>>> split. This relative simple operation of double pushing the SPLIT
> button
>>> transfers everything from A to B; then pushing the SPLIT button works
> just
>>> fine.
>>>
>>> Am curious what "a whole lot of button pushing" means to you?
>> Personally,
>>> I don't consider double pushing the same button I use to go split
> once,
>>> before holding the same button to be "extremely annoying". And I do
> not
>>> have any issue with the K3 not going split with RTTY on one freq and
>> CW/SSB
>>> on the other. You have to admit operating RTTY and SSB/CW split is
> not
>>> exactly a common mode. SSB and CW split (though not common) does
>> occur.
>>>
>>> In any case, I hope you do not "dump" your K3 because you find a
> double
>>> push, and then a "hold" to be that much of an annoyance.
>>>
>>> Dick, K8ZTT
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
>> Frank
>>> Westphal
>>> Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2014 12:03 AM
>>> To: [hidden email]
>>> Subject: [Elecraft] Split N/A
>>>
>>> Every time I change modes from CW to RTTY or RTTY to CW I get the
> Split
>> N/A
>>> error message. I do not get this message when changing modes from
>>> CW to SSB or SSB to CW. Since I am primarily a DXer who works split
>>> having to change from split operation before mode change and then
>> change
>>> back to split operation requires a whole lot of button pushing. This
> is
>>> extremely annoying almost to he point of considering selling the K3.
>>> Elecraft told me this was for my own protection. I don't need a
> company
>> to
>>> tell me this is for my own protection and not willing to make a
> product
>> easy
>>> to operate. I hope someone out there is radio land has a firmware
> fix for
>>> this annoying issue. Otherwise I have enjoyed operating the K3 for
> the
>> last
>>> year.
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance.
>>>
>>> Frank
>>> K6FW
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
>> Frank
>>> Westphal
>>> Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2014 12:03 AM
>>> To: [hidden email]
>>> Subject: [Elecraft] Split N/A
>>>
>>> Every time I change modes from CW to RTTY or RTTY to CW I get the
> Split
>> N/A
>>> error message. I do not get this message when changing modes from
>>> CW to SSB or SSB to CW. Since I am primarily a DXer who works split
>>> having to change from split operation before mode change and then
>> change
>>> back to split operation requires a whole lot of button pushing. This
> is
>>> extremely annoying almost to he point of considering selling the K3.
>>> Elecraft told me this was for my own protection. I don't need a
> company
>> to
>>> tell me this is for my own protection and not willing to make a
> product
>> easy
>>> to operate. I hope someone out there is radio land has a firmware
> fix for
>>> this annoying issue. Otherwise I have enjoyed operating the K3 for
> the
>> last
>>> year.
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance.
>>>
>>> Frank
>>> K6FW
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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James Rogers

Re: Split N/A

Pushing the button twice is so stressful??!! .......FYI there is a PSK
application that will wait expectantly for some one to call you, answer
the call automatically, and transfer the message you had for the calling
station. I do not believe it completes the log entry however. :-))

Jim, W4ATK
61 years of amateur radio and still having fun!

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ve3dvy

Re: Split N/A

In reply to this post by Ken Chandler

Im not sure I would like this at all. sometimes I think that
fool-proofing a rig is the wrong way to go as it take the ownership away
from the operator to pay attention to what they are doing and panders to
the shall I say the bad drivers. if I am working split I make it habbit
to set offset where I make the most mistakes is when I set the
offset and forget to enable split. or worse make the contact move on to
a station working simplex and forget that I am in split. and its
really not that embarrassing and most figure it out in a call or so.
those that don't aren't paying enough attention. In most cases when
someone makes this error its often the Up cops that are worse QRM than
the original offender. Thats when I get frustrated.

If this must be done however make the offset mode specific it
automatically 1khz in cw and 3 in ssb. but I dont see a great need.

David Moes
President: Peterborough Amateur Radio Club.
[hidden email]
VE3DVY, VE3SD

On 10/3/2014 05:24, Ken Chandler wrote:

> I'll agree with that Ian, set it a 3KHz, then let the user define his own split offset once split is activated.
>
>
> Ken.. G0ORH
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>
>> On 3 Oct 2014, at 09:11, Ian White <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> The reason for programming a default "smart split" is to move the TX VFO
>> *away* from the frequency of the DX station. "How far to move?" is a
>> secondary issue.
>>
>> No single value of frequency offset can be optimum for all modes, but
>> anything is better than leaving it at zero! As a frequent user of Split
>> for CW and RTTY, but only very rarely on SSB, I have found +3kHz a very
>> acceptable compromise. Obviously it isn't perfect; but remember it is
>> only a starting-point for tuning the pileup, so the exact value isn't
>> hugely important.
>>
>> The main point is: the default Split offset should *never, never* be
>> zero... and that is exactly where the K3 gets it wrong. When the user
>> double-presses A>B to escape from the "SPLIT N/A" situation, it brings
>> both VFOs onto the same frequency - leaving the user only one step away
>> from accidentally calling on top of the DX station.
>>
>> Other transceiver manufacturers recognise the need for better protection
>> against that hugely embarrassing mistake, which is why Smart Split has
>> become an industry standard. With one notable exception.
>>
>>
>> 73 from Ian GM3SEK
>>
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
>> Joe
>>> Subich, W4TV
>>> Sent: 02 October 2014 17:48
>>> To: [hidden email]
>>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Split N/A
>>>
>>>
>>>> And I do not have any issue with the K3 not going split with RTTY on
>>>> one freq and CW/SSB on the other. You have to admit operating RTTY
>>>> and SSB/CW split is not exactly a common mode.
>>> However, it would be appropriate when initiating SPLIT from the A->B
>>> button that VFO B mode be forced to that of VFO A if VFO A is digital
>>> and the frequency of VFO B be forced to that of VFO A if VFO B is on
>>> a different band rather than SPLIT N/A.
>>>
>>> Unlike Ian, I would not want the VFO B *frequency* changed (e.g., Quick
>>> Split) as long as it was on the current band since I'm just as likely
>>> to have set it manually even if I have not set the mode and the "Smart
>>> Split" splits will invariably be different mode to mode (up 1 in CW,
>>> UP 2 in RTTY, UP 5 in SSB, etc.) and band to band.
>>>
>>> 73,
>>>
>>> ... Joe, W4TV
>>>
>>>
>>>> On 2014-10-02 11:13 AM, Dick wrote:
>>>> Frank,
>>>>
>>>> Like yourself, I do quite a bit of DX RTTY operation using split, and
>> to
>>>> tell you the truth, I just tried what you are talking about, and you
>> are
>>>> right! To me honest with you, I hadn't noticed it before because I
>> have a
>>>> nasty habit of "double pushing" the SPLIT button before holding it to
>>> engage
>>>> split. This relative simple operation of double pushing the SPLIT
>> button
>>>> transfers everything from A to B; then pushing the SPLIT button works
>> just
>>>> fine.
>>>>
>>>> Am curious what "a whole lot of button pushing" means to you?
>>> Personally,
>>>> I don't consider double pushing the same button I use to go split
>> once,
>>>> before holding the same button to be "extremely annoying". And I do
>> not
>>>> have any issue with the K3 not going split with RTTY on one freq and
>>> CW/SSB
>>>> on the other. You have to admit operating RTTY and SSB/CW split is
>> not
>>>> exactly a common mode. SSB and CW split (though not common) does
>>> occur.
>>>> In any case, I hope you do not "dump" your K3 because you find a
>> double
>>>> push, and then a "hold" to be that much of an annoyance.
>>>>
>>>> Dick, K8ZTT
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
>>> Frank
>>>> Westphal
>>>> Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2014 12:03 AM
>>>> To: [hidden email]
>>>> Subject: [Elecraft] Split N/A
>>>>
>>>> Every time I change modes from CW to RTTY or RTTY to CW I get the
>> Split
>>> N/A
>>>> error message. I do not get this message when changing modes from
>>>> CW to SSB or SSB to CW. Since I am primarily a DXer who works split
>>>> having to change from split operation before mode change and then
>>> change
>>>> back to split operation requires a whole lot of button pushing. This
>> is
>>>> extremely annoying almost to he point of considering selling the K3.
>>>> Elecraft told me this was for my own protection. I don't need a
>> company
>>> to
>>>> tell me this is for my own protection and not willing to make a
>> product
>>> easy
>>>> to operate. I hope someone out there is radio land has a firmware
>> fix for
>>>> this annoying issue. Otherwise I have enjoyed operating the K3 for
>> the
>>> last
>>>> year.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks in advance.
>>>>
>>>> Frank
>>>> K6FW
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
>>> Frank
>>>> Westphal
>>>> Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2014 12:03 AM
>>>> To: [hidden email]
>>>> Subject: [Elecraft] Split N/A
>>>>
>>>> Every time I change modes from CW to RTTY or RTTY to CW I get the
>> Split
>>> N/A
>>>> error message. I do not get this message when changing modes from
>>>> CW to SSB or SSB to CW. Since I am primarily a DXer who works split
>>>> having to change from split operation before mode change and then
>>> change
>>>> back to split operation requires a whole lot of button pushing. This
>> is
>>>> extremely annoying almost to he point of considering selling the K3.
>>>> Elecraft told me this was for my own protection. I don't need a
>> company
>>> to
>>>> tell me this is for my own protection and not willing to make a
>> product
>>> easy
>>>> to operate. I hope someone out there is radio land has a firmware
>> fix for
>>>> this annoying issue. Otherwise I have enjoyed operating the K3 for
>> the
>>> last
>>>> year.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks in advance.
>>>>
>>>> Frank
>>>> K6FW
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: Split N/A

In reply to this post by gm3sek

> Other transceiver manufacturers recognise the need for better
> protection against that hugely embarrassing mistake, which is why
> Smart Split has become an industry standard. With one notable
> exception.

If you are going to do a "Smart Split" it needs *its own control.*
I *DO NOT* want the Split button to change the frequency of VFO B.
That can cause big issues when toggling in and out of split.

Frankly, it is up to the operator to make sure where he transmits.
There is altogether too much nanny mentality - it's time *PEOPLE*
take personal responsibility for their actions rather than expect
some one or some thing to fix their mistakes.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 2014-10-03 4:11 AM, Ian White wrote:

> The reason for programming a default "smart split" is to move the TX VFO
> *away* from the frequency of the DX station. "How far to move?" is a
> secondary issue.
>
> No single value of frequency offset can be optimum for all modes, but
> anything is better than leaving it at zero! As a frequent user of Split
> for CW and RTTY, but only very rarely on SSB, I have found +3kHz a very
> acceptable compromise. Obviously it isn't perfect; but remember it is
> only a starting-point for tuning the pileup, so the exact value isn't
> hugely important.
>
> The main point is: the default Split offset should *never, never* be
> zero... and that is exactly where the K3 gets it wrong. When the user
> double-presses A>B to escape from the "SPLIT N/A" situation, it brings
> both VFOs onto the same frequency - leaving the user only one step away
> from accidentally calling on top of the DX station.
>
> Other transceiver manufacturers recognise the need for better protection
> against that hugely embarrassing mistake, which is why Smart Split has
> become an industry standard. With one notable exception.
>
>
> 73 from Ian GM3SEK
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
> Joe
>> Subich, W4TV
>> Sent: 02 October 2014 17:48
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Split N/A
>>
>>
>>> And I do not have any issue with the K3 not going split with RTTY on
>>> one freq and CW/SSB on the other. You have to admit operating RTTY
>>> and SSB/CW split is not exactly a common mode.
>>
>> However, it would be appropriate when initiating SPLIT from the A->B
>> button that VFO B mode be forced to that of VFO A if VFO A is digital
>> and the frequency of VFO B be forced to that of VFO A if VFO B is on
>> a different band rather than SPLIT N/A.
>>
>> Unlike Ian, I would not want the VFO B *frequency* changed (e.g., Quick
>> Split) as long as it was on the current band since I'm just as likely
>> to have set it manually even if I have not set the mode and the "Smart
>> Split" splits will invariably be different mode to mode (up 1 in CW,
>> UP 2 in RTTY, UP 5 in SSB, etc.) and band to band.
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> ... Joe, W4TV
>>
>>
>> On 2014-10-02 11:13 AM, Dick wrote:
>>> Frank,
>>>
>>> Like yourself, I do quite a bit of DX RTTY operation using split, and
> to
>>> tell you the truth, I just tried what you are talking about, and you
> are
>>> right! To me honest with you, I hadn't noticed it before because I
> have a
>>> nasty habit of "double pushing" the SPLIT button before holding it to
>> engage
>>> split. This relative simple operation of double pushing the SPLIT
> button
>>> transfers everything from A to B; then pushing the SPLIT button works
> just
>>> fine.
>>>
>>> Am curious what "a whole lot of button pushing" means to you?
>> Personally,
>>> I don't consider double pushing the same button I use to go split
> once,
>>> before holding the same button to be "extremely annoying". And I do
> not
>>> have any issue with the K3 not going split with RTTY on one freq and
>> CW/SSB
>>> on the other. You have to admit operating RTTY and SSB/CW split is
> not
>>> exactly a common mode. SSB and CW split (though not common) does
>> occur.
>>>
>>> In any case, I hope you do not "dump" your K3 because you find a
> double
>>> push, and then a "hold" to be that much of an annoyance.
>>>
>>> Dick, K8ZTT
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
>> Frank
>>> Westphal
>>> Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2014 12:03 AM
>>> To: [hidden email]
>>> Subject: [Elecraft] Split N/A
>>>
>>> Every time I change modes from CW to RTTY or RTTY to CW I get the
> Split
>> N/A
>>> error message. I do not get this message when changing modes from
>>> CW to SSB or SSB to CW. Since I am primarily a DXer who works split
>>> having to change from split operation before mode change and then
>> change
>>> back to split operation requires a whole lot of button pushing. This
> is
>>> extremely annoying almost to he point of considering selling the K3.
>>> Elecraft told me this was for my own protection. I don't need a
> company
>> to
>>> tell me this is for my own protection and not willing to make a
> product
>> easy
>>> to operate. I hope someone out there is radio land has a firmware
> fix for
>>> this annoying issue. Otherwise I have enjoyed operating the K3 for
> the
>> last
>>> year.
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance.
>>>
>>> Frank
>>> K6FW
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
>> Frank
>>> Westphal
>>> Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2014 12:03 AM
>>> To: [hidden email]
>>> Subject: [Elecraft] Split N/A
>>>
>>> Every time I change modes from CW to RTTY or RTTY to CW I get the
> Split
>> N/A
>>> error message. I do not get this message when changing modes from
>>> CW to SSB or SSB to CW. Since I am primarily a DXer who works split
>>> having to change from split operation before mode change and then
>> change
>>> back to split operation requires a whole lot of button pushing. This
> is
>>> extremely annoying almost to he point of considering selling the K3.
>>> Elecraft told me this was for my own protection. I don't need a
> company
>> to
>>> tell me this is for my own protection and not willing to make a
> product
>> easy
>>> to operate. I hope someone out there is radio land has a firmware
> fix for
>>> this annoying issue. Otherwise I have enjoyed operating the K3 for
> the
>> last
>>> year.
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance.
>>>
>>> Frank
>>> K6FW
>
>
>

wayne burdick

Using K3 (or KX3) Macros for custom SPLIT functions

Administrator

For those who may have missed this when I first described it--

* * *

In a recent discussion about SPLIT, many proposals were made (too
many :) Others argued for no change.

With this in mind, we've created a new "switch macro" feature. It
allows you to create your own variation on SPLIT -- or any other radio
function -- and execute it with a single switch press. In effect,
you'll be creating your own custom firmware for the K3 that automates
control sequences you use most.

Example #1 (SPLIT+2):

A>B
A>B
SPLIT
VFO B up 2
RIT and XIT off

Example #2 (WEAKSIG):

Sub ON
Diversity mode
main/sub preamps on
200-Hz bandwidth
center passband

Many other combinations are possible, limited only by the K3's remote-
control command set and the macro length limit (presently 56 bytes).
You'll be able to set VFO frequencies or RIT/XIT offsets, adjust gain
or filter controls, and virtually "tap" or "hold" nearly any control
on the radio.

First, you enter a sequence of K3 control commands into one or more
macros using K3 Utility, which can store them in the K3's EEPROM.
Next, you assign the macros to any of the K3's 10 programmable
function switches (PF1, PF2, M1-M4 tap, or M1-M4 hold) using the new
MACRO menu entry.

After that, activating the switch will perform the desired functions,
and the name of the macro will flash on VFO B as a reminder (e.g.,
"SPLIT+2").

* * *

Many K3 (and KX3) owners are using such macros to obtain exactly the splits that they prefer.

73,
Wayne
N6KR

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
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Message delivered to [hidden email]

N7US

Re: Using K3 (or KX3) Macros for custom SPLIT functions

If you use DXLab's Commander radio control module, you can create
user-defined controls that don't have the length limitation of the K3.
However, the program already has the capability to do splits of plus or
minus 1, 2, 5, or 10 kHz with a mouse click.

http://www.dxlabsuite.com/ and click on the Xcvr_Control tab.

73, Jim N7US

-----Original Message-----

For those who may have missed this when I first described it--

* * *

In a recent discussion about SPLIT, many proposals were made (too many :)
Others argued for no change.

With this in mind, we've created a new "switch macro" feature. It allows you
to create your own variation on SPLIT -- or any other radio function -- and
execute it with a single switch press. In effect, you'll be creating your
own custom firmware for the K3 that automates control sequences you use
most.

Example #1 (SPLIT+2):

A>B
A>B
SPLIT
VFO B up 2
RIT and XIT off

Example #2 (WEAKSIG):

Sub ON
Diversity mode
main/sub preamps on
200-Hz bandwidth
center passband

Many other combinations are possible, limited only by the K3's remote-
control command set and the macro length limit (presently 56 bytes).
You'll be able to set VFO frequencies or RIT/XIT offsets, adjust gain or
filter controls, and virtually "tap" or "hold" nearly any control on the
radio.

First, you enter a sequence of K3 control commands into one or more macros
using K3 Utility, which can store them in the K3's EEPROM.
Next, you assign the macros to any of the K3's 10 programmable function
switches (PF1, PF2, M1-M4 tap, or M1-M4 hold) using the new MACRO menu
entry.

After that, activating the switch will perform the desired functions, and
the name of the macro will flash on VFO B as a reminder (e.g., "SPLIT+2").

* * *

Many K3 (and KX3) owners are using such macros to obtain exactly the splits
that they prefer.

73,
Wayne
N6KR

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: Using K3 (or KX3) Macros for custom SPLIT functions

In reply to this post by wayne burdick

That doesn't address the issue of resetting the VFO B mode when
pressing split (or when an external program commands split) if the
modes are different e.g., SSB vs. DATA or CW vs. DATA or the VFOs
are on different bands (VFO IND = YES).

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 2014-10-03 11:04 AM, Wayne Burdick wrote:

> For those who may have missed this when I first described it--
>
> * * *
>
> In a recent discussion about SPLIT, many proposals were made (too
> many :) Others argued for no change.
>
> With this in mind, we've created a new "switch macro" feature. It
> allows you to create your own variation on SPLIT -- or any other radio
> function -- and execute it with a single switch press. In effect,
> you'll be creating your own custom firmware for the K3 that automates
> control sequences you use most.
>
> Example #1 (SPLIT+2):
>
> A>B
> A>B
> SPLIT
> VFO B up 2
> RIT and XIT off
>
> Example #2 (WEAKSIG):
>
> Sub ON
> Diversity mode
> main/sub preamps on
> 200-Hz bandwidth
> center passband
>
> Many other combinations are possible, limited only by the K3's remote-
> control command set and the macro length limit (presently 56 bytes).
> You'll be able to set VFO frequencies or RIT/XIT offsets, adjust gain
> or filter controls, and virtually "tap" or "hold" nearly any control
> on the radio.
>
> First, you enter a sequence of K3 control commands into one or more
> macros using K3 Utility, which can store them in the K3's EEPROM.
> Next, you assign the macros to any of the K3's 10 programmable
> function switches (PF1, PF2, M1-M4 tap, or M1-M4 hold) using the new
> MACRO menu entry.
>
> After that, activating the switch will perform the desired functions,
> and the name of the macro will flash on VFO B as a reminder (e.g.,
> "SPLIT+2").
>
> * * *
>
> Many K3 (and KX3) owners are using such macros to obtain exactly the splits that they prefer.
>
> 73,
> Wayne
> N6KR
>
>
>
>

gm3sek

Re: Using K3 (or KX3) Macros for custom SPLIT functions

Yup, I well remember the day when Wayne announced the macro facility -
and a very fine day that was! From that day, I have used a personalized
SPLIT macro that sets the K3 up just right from a single button-press,
and avoids all risk of appearing on the wrong frequency or seeing that
SPLIT N/A message [1].

The problem is that a Smart Split (or Safe Split) macro is not
assignable to the SPLIT button itself - instead, the SPLIT button become
something to *avoid*. If there was an option to assign a special
user-defined macro to the SPLIT button (using one of the many available
examples) then the K3's SPLIT control would instantly become "best in
its class".

Moving on to Wayne's question about any missing points in his original
example, the main point is that when the KRX3 is installed, "A>B, A>B"
will also change many other parameters in the sub-rx. That may not be
what every user needs. For example, the main RX (VFO A) generally needs
to be optimized to listen for a weak DXpedition station, while the
sub-rx is tuning a pileup of very strong signals using VFOB. There are a
number of workarounds for that, but those macros will obviously be more
complex than Wayne's original "day 1" example.

[1] If anyone doesn't understand the urge to make the K3 do things
quickly, automatically and with minimum risk... I am a DXer, a
contester and one of those "race tuners" who spend a lot of time
optimizing the performance and efficiency of our stations. We do this so
that on "race days" - in contest or DX pileups - we won't have to waste
any time or attention on unnecessary complications like pressing 6
different buttons in the correct sequence. Why? Because on "race days"
there are far more important things to do.

73 from Ian GM3SEK

>-----Original Message-----
>From: Wayne Burdick [mailto:[hidden email]]
>Sent: 03 October 2014 17:49
>To: Joe Subich, W4TV
>Cc: Ian White
>Subject: Re: Using K3 (or KX3) Macros for custom SPLIT functions
>
>A>B twice sets mode B equal to mode A, so what am I missing?
>
>On Oct 3, 2014, at 9:43 AM, "Joe Subich, W4TV" <[hidden email]>

wrote:

>
>>
>> That doesn't address the issue of resetting the VFO B mode when
>> pressing split (or when an external program commands split) if the
>> modes are different e.g., SSB vs. DATA or CW vs. DATA or the VFOs
>> are on different bands (VFO IND = YES).
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> ... Joe, W4TV
>>
>>
>> On 2014-10-03 11:04 AM, Wayne Burdick wrote:
>>> For those who may have missed this when I first described it--
>>>
>>> * * *
>>>
>>> In a recent discussion about SPLIT, many proposals were made (too
>>> many :) Others argued for no change.
>>>
>>> With this in mind, we've created a new "switch macro" feature. It
>>> allows you to create your own variation on SPLIT -- or any other

radio
>>> function -- and execute it with a single switch press. In effect,
>>> you'll be creating your own custom firmware for the K3 that
automates

>>> control sequences you use most.
>>>
>>> Example #1 (SPLIT+2):
>>>
>>> A>B
>>> A>B
>>> SPLIT
>>> VFO B up 2
>>> RIT and XIT off
>>>
>>> Example #2 (WEAKSIG):
>>>
>>> Sub ON
>>> Diversity mode
>>> main/sub preamps on
>>> 200-Hz bandwidth
>>> center passband
>>>
>>> Many other combinations are possible, limited only by the K3's

remote-
>>> control command set and the macro length limit (presently 56 bytes).
>>> You'll be able to set VFO frequencies or RIT/XIT offsets, adjust
gain

>>> or filter controls, and virtually "tap" or "hold" nearly any control
>>> on the radio.
>>>
>>> First, you enter a sequence of K3 control commands into one or more
>>> macros using K3 Utility, which can store them in the K3's EEPROM.
>>> Next, you assign the macros to any of the K3's 10 programmable
>>> function switches (PF1, PF2, M1-M4 tap, or M1-M4 hold) using the new
>>> MACRO menu entry.
>>>
>>> After that, activating the switch will perform the desired

functions,

>>> and the name of the macro will flash on VFO B as a reminder (e.g.,
>>> "SPLIT+2").
>>>
>>> * * *
>>>
>>> Many K3 (and KX3) owners are using such macros to obtain exactly the
>splits that they prefer.
>>>
>>> 73,
>>> Wayne
>>> N6KR
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>

k6dgw

Re: Split N/A

In reply to this post by ve3dvy

Don't know if "bad drivers" is the right term, possibly "new drivers"
might be better. I agree however that trying to fool proof can lead to
all sorts of problems. Although I thought [in the early 80's] that this
cellular telephone business wouldn't catch on [heavy phone-in-a-bag] ...
I am now on my 9th phone, this one a Verizon Samsung Galaxy 5 [I also
told my wife that ATM's would be a loser for banks :-)].

The Galaxy 5 attempts to think for me in many places [spell check and
auto-complete are only two small examples], and, with 29 yr old
grandson's help, I'm slowly turning off the ones that I can. I'm
totally capable to learn how to do something with it on my own.
Likewise with my KX1, K2, K3, KPA500, KAT500, and P3.

I'm not surprised how picky many have become, the technology we take for
granted today is light-years beyond what we used in the 50's and we're
used to pushing "popcorn" to nuke a bag to perfection [if it's correct
side down]. I *am* glad however that Elecraft monitors this list [and
likely others], and is very careful about implementing a suggestion from
what could be a customer-base of one.

73,

Fred K6DGW
- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the 2015 Cal QSO Party 3-4 Oct 2015
- www.cqp.org

On 10/3/2014 5:06 AM, david Moes wrote:
> Im not sure I would like this at all. sometimes I think that
> fool-proofing a rig is the wrong way to go as it take the ownership away
> from the operator to pay attention to what they are doing and panders to
> the shall I say the bad drivers.

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Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: Split N/A

The problem isn't drivers or anything like that, it is attempting
to deal with application software that does not handle the K3's
unique interface.

For example, WSJTX 1.4 when controlling *any rig* via DXLab Suite's
CI-V Commander sets the frequency (VFO A), turns on split, then sets
the transmit frequency (VFO B). In monitoring TCP commands between
the two applications, I don't even see an attempt to set the mode of
VFO A, much less VFO B - but that's moot because the software turns
on Split before even setting transmit frequency.

If the K3 were to force VFO B to the same frequency and mode as VFO A
when split were enabled (if VFO A is in DATA or on a different band
than VFO B) software like WSJT-X that apparently caters to the lowest
common denominator in rig control interfaces would not be able to send
the K3 off into the weeds. Remember, software like this generally
does not have user programmable band change/frequency set macros - it
is not a matter of "user responsibility". This is more a matter of
surviving software with limited sophistication when it comes to rig
control.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 2014-10-06 7:58 PM, Fred Jensen wrote:

> Don't know if "bad drivers" is the right term, possibly "new drivers"
> might be better. I agree however that trying to fool proof can lead to
> all sorts of problems. Although I thought [in the early 80's] that this
> cellular telephone business wouldn't catch on [heavy phone-in-a-bag] ...
> I am now on my 9th phone, this one a Verizon Samsung Galaxy 5 [I also
> told my wife that ATM's would be a loser for banks :-)].
>
> The Galaxy 5 attempts to think for me in many places [spell check and
> auto-complete are only two small examples], and, with 29 yr old
> grandson's help, I'm slowly turning off the ones that I can. I'm
> totally capable to learn how to do something with it on my own. Likewise
> with my KX1, K2, K3, KPA500, KAT500, and P3.
>
> I'm not surprised how picky many have become, the technology we take for
> granted today is light-years beyond what we used in the 50's and we're
> used to pushing "popcorn" to nuke a bag to perfection [if it's correct
> side down]. I *am* glad however that Elecraft monitors this list [and
> likely others], and is very careful about implementing a suggestion from
> what could be a customer-base of one.
>
> 73,
>
> Fred K6DGW
> - Northern California Contest Club
> - CU in the 2015 Cal QSO Party 3-4 Oct 2015
> - www.cqp.org
>
> On 10/3/2014 5:06 AM, david Moes wrote:
>> Im not sure I would like this at all. sometimes I think that
>> fool-proofing a rig is the wrong way to go as it take the ownership away
>> from the operator to pay attention to what they are doing and panders to
>> the shall I say the bad drivers.
>
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