Elecraft

Split Operation

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Peter Chamalian

Split Operation

If I'm reading the manual correctly, when I have the config setting SPLT SV
set to YES, the K3 should save the split, XIT and RIT information on each
band. But, with this value set to YES, and I am split on say 30 meters then
change to 20 meters and go back to 30, the sub receiver is still at the
frequency it was set for but the K3 is no longer in split mode so I have to
press split again to put it into split mode.

This is particularly annoying if I happen to be chasing a DXpedition on one
band, change bands to another to work something then go back to the previous
band and transmit because I'm not split!

Is this a bug or am I missing something else that needs to be set? I would
like the K3 to remain in split mode as well as keep the vfo A and B values.

Pete, W1RM

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Dan Maase AC6DM

Re: Split Operation

If the K3 is equipped with sub receiver, why not work split by working the pileup on VFO A while listening to the calling station on VFO B? I've not seen anyone comment on this operating mode.

1. Keeps the xmit operation on VFO A avoiding the oops of working conventional split and forgetting to hit "split" so xmit is on VFO B.
2. Permits perusing the cacophony of pileup callers with the larger, more easily used large VFO A knob.

Am I missing something?

Dan
AC6DM

Rick WA6NHC

Re: Split Operation

Because if the other station is low power or otherwise weak, the 3 db RX hit may be too much to bear.

73,
Rick wa6nhc

Tiny iPhone 5 keypad, typos are inevitable

> On Feb 18, 2015, at 12:23 PM, Dan Maase AC6DM via Elecraft <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> If the K3 is equipped with sub receiver, why not work split by working the
> pileup on VFO A while listening to the calling station on VFO B? I've not
> seen anyone comment on this operating mode.
>
> 1. Keeps the xmit operation on VFO A avoiding the oops of working
> conventional split and forgetting to hit "split" so xmit is on VFO B.
> 2. Permits perusing the cacophony of pileup callers with the larger, more
> easily used large VFO A knob.
>
> Am I missing something?
>
> Dan
> AC6DM
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Split-Operation-tp7565848p7598936.html
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wayne burdick

Re: Split Operation

Administrator

In reply to this post by Dan Maase AC6DM

This is discussed briefly on page 38 of the owner's manual ("SPLIT mode with the sub receiver"). I think of it as "implied split." I have posted about this technique on a few occasions. It has the advantage that you can tune the pileup with the large VFO A knob, and you don't have to engage in endless debate about how to enhance SPLIT mode.

Wayne
N6KR

On Feb 18, 2015, at 12:23 PM, Dan Maase AC6DM via Elecraft <[hidden email]> wrote:

> If the K3 is equipped with sub receiver, why not work split by working the
> pileup on VFO A while listening to the calling station on VFO B? I've not
> seen anyone comment on this operating mode.
>
> 1. Keeps the xmit operation on VFO A avoiding the oops of working
> conventional split and forgetting to hit "split" so xmit is on VFO B.
> 2. Permits perusing the cacophony of pileup callers with the larger, more
> easily used large VFO A knob.
>
> Am I missing something?
>
> Dan
> AC6DM
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Split-Operation-tp7565848p7598936.html
> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Dan Maase AC6DM

Re: Split Operation

Thanks Wayne.

I had been using the conventional split mode when it occurred to me, why am I not using what you dub "implied split"? I've been doing that since and thought I would bring it up to the group since it has little press.

I acknowledge your reference to the owner's manual, but frankly had missed it prior.

Otherwise, your suggestion of offering a mode to display the split mode status in a more "in your face" manner looks like a good idea.

73,
Dan
AC6DM

wb6rse1

Re: Split Operation

When attempting to break a pileup, the reason to use the conventional SPLIT mode vs implied (assuming your have the sub RX) is to have all of the RX controls, bandwidth, APF etc. immediately available without having to use B-SET first.

Steve WB6RSE

>
> On Feb 18, 2015, at 11:42 PM, Dan Maase AC6DM via Elecraft <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Thanks Wayne.
>
> I had been using the conventional split mode when it occurred to me, why am
> I not using what you dub "implied split"? I've been doing that since and
> thought I would bring it up to the group since it has little press.
>
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Ralph Parker

Re: Split operation

In reply to this post by Peter Chamalian

>> Or, we could replace the *entire* VFO A display with the word "SPLIT"
during
>> key-down. This would be even more obvious, and it wouldn't mess up the
VFO B
>> display. VFO B is what you care about during split TX.

Why not just have the DVR say "UP, UP" whenever you transmit in split mode.
Save wear and tear on the KC Kops.

VE7XF

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Elecraft mailing list

Re: Split operation

The real fix is to just pay attention, and read the screen.
I spent years in IT where if people just seemed unable to simply read the screen.
It's the same here with the split, people just need to pay attention to what they're doing.

From: Ralph Parker <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Monday, February 23, 2015 3:08 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Split operation

>> Or, we could replace the *entire* VFO A display with the word "SPLIT"
during
>> key-down. This would be even more obvious, and it wouldn't mess up the
VFO B
>> display. VFO B is what you care about during split TX.

Why not just have the DVR say "UP, UP" whenever you transmit in split mode.
Save wear and tear on the KC Kops.

VE7XF

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Gary Smith-2

Re: Split operation

Harry,

What you say is true, I can not disagree.

I will say that absent-mindedness is the
bane of humanity and nobody can remember
all the right things to do, all of the
time. No matter how hard we like to think
of ourselves as doing the perfectly right
thing, some incredibly competent person,
somewhere, is making a mistake at this
moment.

Since transmitting on the Dx Tx frequency
is one of the deadly sins, creating the
extra step to make it not happen is a good
thing.

Just today I clicked on a RTTY spot I
needed, tuned them in on the scope, set
the VFO to where I wanted to transmit. All
was good... I gave my call 4-5 times till
some ass insulted me calling me a name,
sending UP UP and then another
ass-relative of theirs called me names.

I thought I was in split with the marker
in the P3 dead on where I wanted to
transmit. All was set except I hadn't
dedicated that A>B button to "split". If
in my P3 screen I saw the word SPLIT in
the waterfall, I would know I was in
split. Just having a flashing LED or some
1/2" x 1/4" high below the power button
saying SPLIT is just not enough for me to
come close to being 100% on this.

I suspect most of the honest answers you'd
get here says people have made this
mistake. I'm for an in your face option to
make it clear when you are in split. Don't
want it? Don't enable it. Want to be sure?
enable it...

Gary
KA1J

> The real fix is to just pay attention, and read the screen.
> I spent years in IT where if people just seemed unable to simply read the screen.
> It's the same here with the split, people just need to pay attention to what they're doing.
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Ralph Parker <[hidden email]>
> To: [hidden email]
> Sent: Monday, February 23, 2015 3:08 PM
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Split operation
>
> >> Or, we could replace the *entire* VFO A display with the word "SPLIT"
> during
> >> key-down. This would be even more obvious, and it wouldn't mess up the
> VFO B
> >> display. VFO B is what you care about during split TX.
>
> Why not just have the DVR say "UP, UP" whenever you transmit in split mode.
> Save wear and tear on the KC Kops.
>
> VE7XF
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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>
>
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Elecraft mailing list

Re: Split operation

I guess I see it as we should be able to just read the screen. Maybe it's because I learned to pay attention
to the details while in the Navy (doing push-ups because someone did not pay attention to the little details).
You struck on the real problem.... Far to many rude people today
I've been fortunate over the years and I've had a some fellow Hams work with me on the air (when my signal was off etc). That left me with the desire to pass along help and guidance when I could; in a nurturing not condescending manner.
Remember it's just a hobby

From: Gary Smith <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2015 12:38 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Split operation

Harry,

What you say is true, I can not disagree.

I will say that absent-mindedness is the
bane of humanity and nobody can remember
all the right things to do, all of the
time. No matter how hard we like to think
of ourselves as doing the perfectly right
thing, some incredibly competent person,
somewhere, is making a mistake at this
moment.

Since transmitting on the Dx Tx frequency
is one of the deadly sins, creating the
extra step to make it not happen is a good
thing.

Just today I clicked on a RTTY spot I
needed, tuned them in on the scope, set
the VFO to where I wanted to transmit. All
was good... I gave my call 4-5 times till
some ass insulted me calling me a name,
sending UP UP and then another
ass-relative of theirs called me names.

I thought I was in split with the marker
in the P3 dead on where I wanted to
transmit. All was set except I hadn't
dedicated that A>B button to "split". If
in my P3 screen I saw the word SPLIT in
the waterfall, I would know I was in
split. Just having a flashing LED or some
1/2" x 1/4" high below the power button
saying SPLIT is just not enough for me to
come close to being 100% on this.

I suspect most of the honest answers you'd
get here says people have made this
mistake. I'm for an in your face option to
make it clear when you are in split. Don't
want it? Don't enable it. Want to be sure?
enable it...

Gary
KA1J

---
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Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: Split operation

In reply to this post by Gary Smith-2

> I thought I was in split with the marker
> in the P3 dead on where I wanted to
> transmit. All was set except I hadn't
> dedicated that A>B button to "split".

Do you have problems seeing red? The P3 will show
a RED cursor for the transmit frequency when the K3
is split (or if RTI/XIT is turned on).

I don't understand why someone would want to lose a
significant amount of data displayed in the waterfall
when the red transmit cursor is so prominent.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 2015-02-24 12:38 AM, Gary Smith wrote:

> Harry,
>
> What you say is true, I can not disagree.
>
> I will say that absent-mindedness is the
> bane of humanity and nobody can remember
> all the right things to do, all of the
> time. No matter how hard we like to think
> of ourselves as doing the perfectly right
> thing, some incredibly competent person,
> somewhere, is making a mistake at this
> moment.
>
> Since transmitting on the Dx Tx frequency
> is one of the deadly sins, creating the
> extra step to make it not happen is a good
> thing.
>
> Just today I clicked on a RTTY spot I
> needed, tuned them in on the scope, set
> the VFO to where I wanted to transmit. All
> was good... I gave my call 4-5 times till
> some ass insulted me calling me a name,
> sending UP UP and then another
> ass-relative of theirs called me names.
>
> I thought I was in split with the marker
> in the P3 dead on where I wanted to
> transmit. All was set except I hadn't
> dedicated that A>B button to "split". If
> in my P3 screen I saw the word SPLIT in
> the waterfall, I would know I was in
> split. Just having a flashing LED or some
> 1/2" x 1/4" high below the power button
> saying SPLIT is just not enough for me to
> come close to being 100% on this.
>
> I suspect most of the honest answers you'd
> get here says people have made this
> mistake. I'm for an in your face option to
> make it clear when you are in split. Don't
> want it? Don't enable it. Want to be sure?
> enable it...
>
> Gary
> KA1J
>
>
>
>> The real fix is to just pay attention, and read the screen.
>> I spent years in IT where if people just seemed unable to simply read the screen.
>> It's the same here with the split, people just need to pay attention to what they're doing.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Ralph Parker <[hidden email]>
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Sent: Monday, February 23, 2015 3:08 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Split operation
>>
>>>> Or, we could replace the *entire* VFO A display with the word "SPLIT"
>> during
>>>> key-down. This would be even more obvious, and it wouldn't mess up the
>> VFO B
>>>> display. VFO B is what you care about during split TX.
>>
>> Why not just have the DVR say "UP, UP" whenever you transmit in split mode.
>> Save wear and tear on the KC Kops.
>>
>> VE7XF
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>
>
>
>
>
> ---
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Bill Frantz

Re: Split operation

On 2/24/15 at 6:04 AM, [hidden email] (Joe Subich, W4TV) wrote:

>>I thought I was in split with the marker
>>in the P3 dead on where I wanted to
>>transmit. All was set except I hadn't
>>dedicated that A>B button to "split".
>
>Do you have problems seeing red? The P3 will show
>a RED cursor for the transmit frequency when the K3
>is split (or if RTI/XIT is turned on).

I managed to transmit on the DX frequency in my early days. (A
kindly ham read my QRZ page, realized I was quite new to this
kind of operation, and called me on the telephone to do a little
elmering. I am still very grateful to him.)

I was using the SVGA on my P3 where the difference between red
and magenta is somewhat subtle. (If I had looked at the P3
screen, it would have been much more obvious.) 20-20 hindsight
says that perhaps the VFO-B cursor should have been yellow,
turning to red when in split. There may be even better choices
when we consider working for color blind people.

73 Bill AE6JV

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Frantz | Since the IBM Selectric, keyboards have gotten
408-356-8506 | steadily worse. Now we have touchscreen keyboards.
www.pwpconsult.com | Can we make something even worse?

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k6dgw

Re: P3 - Split operation

In reply to this post by Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Of all the possible colors to denote VFO A and B, red and green are
probably the worst choices since defective color vision is way more
prevalent in males than females, the vast majority of hams are male, and
inability to distinguish red and green is the most common color vision
defect. :-)

I don't have any color vision at all so it's moot for me. I run my P3
with the monochrome waterfall, and if I had my choice, the cursors would
be white, with A being solid and B dashed. But since the odds are high
I'm the only Elecraft customer with this vision defect, I can understand
if they don't take my suggestion. Then again, Alan added the monochrome
WF option when I told him I couldn't use the color-coded WF very well.

73,

Fred K6DGW
- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the 50th Running of the Cal QSO Party 3-4 Oct 2015
- www.cqp.org

On 2/24/2015 6:04 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:

> Do you have problems seeing red? The P3 will show
> a RED cursor for the transmit frequency when the K3
> is split (or if RTI/XIT is turned on).
>
> I don't understand why someone would want to lose a
> significant amount of data displayed in the waterfall
> when the red transmit cursor is so prominent.

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Elecraft mailing list

Re: P3 - Split operation

I realize that the discussion about split operations have beenenough to tan the hides of every bovine used for McDonald'shamburgers for the next century, but I would like to add my "vote"to what Fred mentioned, as I'm one of those 10% or so of maleswho suffer from the inability to distinguish reds, greens, browns,and other similar "earth tones". I freely admit that my XYL has tomatch a lot of my clothing for me.
In my professional career, I even encountered one poor guy whohad to use a hood over a 7-segment LED display (on the front panelof a PDP11/34) to be able to read it, even though there were no othercolors in the immediate vicinity; he had to rely solely on the relativebrightness of the display. I can, I think, differentiate a lot of colors,but my wife will tell you that it's a guess at best, and usually wrong,and the accuracy depends strongly on the color/temperature of theambient light in the room. I score the best accuracy in pure sunlight.
So, yes, some chromatic ergonomic engineering would be sincerely appreciated!
tnx es 73,
Brandy, N1HO
Fred Jensen, k6dgw, said, in part,

"...red and green are probably the worst choices since defective colorvision is way more prevalent in males than females, the vast majorityof hams are male, and inability to distinguish red and green is the mostcommon color vision defect."

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Vic Rosenthal

Re: P3 - Split operation

Me too. For me, blue and yellow are like night and day, but red, green,
brown, etc. are encompassed by a concept that I call "groun." I would
like an option to make the TX cursor yellow.

30-odd years ago I used to have a 4-year old daughter standing by to
read resistor color codes to me, and now I'm waiting for HER daughter to
be old enough for the job.

On 25 Feb 2015 02:10, Bayard Coolidge, N1HO via Elecraft wrote:

> I realize that the discussion about split operations have beenenough
> to tan the hides of every bovine used for McDonald'shamburgers for
> the next century, but I would like to add my "vote"to what Fred
> mentioned, as I'm one of those 10% or so of maleswho suffer from the
> inability to distinguish reds, greens, browns,and other similar
> "earth tones". I freely admit that my XYL has to match a lot of my
> clothing for me. In my professional career, I even encountered one
> poor guy who had to use a hood over a 7-segment LED display (on the
> front panel of a PDP11/34) to be able to read it, even though there
> were no other colors in the immediate vicinity; he had to rely solely
> on the relative brightness of the display. I can, I think,
> differentiate a lot of colors,but my wife will tell you that it's a
> guess at best, and usually wrong,and the accuracy depends strongly on
> the color/temperature of the ambient light in the room. I score the
> best accuracy in pure sunlight.

> So, yes, some chromatic ergonomic engineering would be sincerely appreciated!

tnx es 73,
Brandy, N1HO

> Fred Jensen, k6dgw, said, in part,
>
> "...red and green are probably the worst choices since defective
> color vision is way more prevalent in males than females, the vast
> majority of hams are male, and inability to distinguish red and green
> is the most common color vision defect."

--
73,
Vic, 4X6GP/K2VCO
Rehovot, Israel
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
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