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Split operation - display of Transmit frequency on keydown

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Terry Schieler-2

Re: Split operation - display of Transmit frequency on keydown

Or, when in the "SPLIT" mode, and transmitting on VFO A, have the display programmed to scroll "UP UP UP U IDIOT". ;o)

Terry WØFM

-----Original Message-----
From: Wayne Burdick [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 6:38 PM
To: Elecraft Reflector
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Split operation - display of Transmit frequency on keydown

Or, we could replace the *entire* VFO A display with the word "SPLIT" during key-down. This would be even more obvious, and it wouldn't mess up the VFO B display. VFO B is what you care about during split TX.

Wayne

On Feb 17, 2015, at 4:35 PM, Wayne Burdick <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I share Joe's dislike of the idea of changing VFO A to the VFO B frequency during split TX. It's just a major semantic disconnect.
>
> However, we could do something like replace the leftmost 3 characters of the VFO B frequency display with "SPL" during key-down. Would that be obnoxious enough?
>
> Wayne
> N6KR
>
>

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Gary Smith-2

Re: Split operation - display of Transmit frequency on keydown

In reply to this post by Mike K2MK

I'd like to see the option for a fair
sized notice saying SPLIT in Red on the
right 1/2 of the screen, on the P3/SVGA
when I'm in SPLIT operation, I'm more
looking at that when I'm chasing in a
pileup. Since I have the SVGA, I rarely
look at the P3 itself except top select
changes and focus on the monitor instead.

The K3 is to my left and I rarely look on
its left side except when changing bands
or modes; I personally would like the
in-your-face SPLIT available on the
monitor. Place it lower on the waterfall
or above the reference level, somewhere
it's obvious but does not occlude
necessary visual data.

Not seeing SPLIT in red would be obvious
if you're wanting to be there.

73,

Gary
KA1J

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Mike Reublin NF4L

Re: Split operation - display of Transmit frequency on keydown

In reply to this post by wayne burdick

GAAAAKKKK! No!

If someone, looking at the display, doesn't notice the SPLT, or the down arrow, then I don't think another indicator is gonna do any good. I think the problem lies in NOT looking at the radio in the passion of the chase.

If the radio is in split, and the VFO's are equal, then put a KV on the mic or keyer.

73, Mike NF4L

> On Feb 17, 2015, at 7:35 PM, Wayne Burdick <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I share Joe's dislike of the idea of changing VFO A to the VFO B frequency during split TX. It's just a major semantic disconnect.
>
> However, we could do something like replace the leftmost 3 characters of the VFO B frequency display with "SPL" during key-down. Would that be obnoxious enough?
>
> Wayne
> N6KR
>
>
> On Feb 17, 2015, at 4:06 PM, "Joe Subich, W4TV" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>>
>>> Being able to see an immediate feedback when I keydown, letting me
>>> know I am in split operation, sure would be nice.
>>
>> The K3 already gives *instant* feedback when in Split operation with
>> *THREE* separate indicators:
>>
>> 1) the (SPLIT) icon on the mail display
>> 2) the "down arrow" pointing to the VFO [B] icon
>> 3) the red "Delta-F" LED between the Power button and Phones jack.
>>
>> Changing the VFO A display in transmit would be incorrect since
>> VFO A does not change - the selected VFO changes.
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> ... Joe, W4TV
>>
>>
>> On 2015-02-17 6:36 PM, Bob Harvey - K2PI wrote:
>>> Is there an option in the settings, or a planned firmware change, to shift
>>> the displayed K3 Frequency to the transmit frequency when working split? I
>>> cannot count the number of times I have moved the VFO too far, or simply
>>> forgot to reset it back to split operation, only to be screamed at by DX
>>> cops on frequency.
>>>
>>> Being able to see an immediate feedback when I keydown, letting me know I am
>>> in split operation, sure would be nice.
>>>
>>> 73
>>> Harv
>>> K2PI
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Split-operation-display-of-Transmit-frequency-on-keydown-tp7598758.html
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Edward R Cole

Re: Split operation - display of Transmit frequency on keydown

In reply to this post by Bob Harvey - K2PI

I agree...ain't broke so why fix it?

I use split with diversity reception on 2m-eme. I need to see both
frequencies just like it is, currently. If you want an option to
flash delta-f, fine. I note that it is illuminated when in
SPLIT. My only problem is to remember to enter my new Tx frequency
when I change Rx frequency via my sw (which doesn't instruct the K3,
automatically). I do have a utility which I can send the K3 my new
operating frequency to VFO-A which I then have to swap to have on
VFO-B. A little clumsy but its become a reflex action.

What I don't have is something reminding me to enter the new Tx
frequency (dummy). I don't need Elecraft changing anything (its
really an operator issue).

So if you make a change have it available as an option in the menu,
so those of use who have no issue with it as-is do not have to change anything.

BTW having diversity easier to enter will be nice.

73, Ed - KL7UW

From: Ken K3IU <[hidden email]>
To: Wayne Burdick <[hidden email]>, Elecraft Reflector
<[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Split operation - display of Transmit
frequency on keydown
Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed

Please leave it alone. The TX marker point to "B" and the
"SPLIT" with a border around it is enough.
73, Ken K3IU

73, Ed - KL7UW
http://www.kl7uw.com
"Kits made by KL7UW"
Dubus Mag business:
[hidden email]

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Dave-7

Re: Split operation - display of Transmit frequency on keydown

In reply to this post by Doug VE3VS

> too easy to unknowingly have the rig "drop out" of
> SPLIT

I'm curious about this, how does the K3 "drop out of SPLIT"?

The only way I know to get into and out of split is to hold the A>B
button. Is there some other front panel way? Is there a firmware bug
that occasionally causes the K3 to forget it is in split? Or some
combination of presses of other buttons?

Holding the A>B button takes a conscious effort. Not something that
happens accidentally.

If it is external software (rig control, logger, etc) doing it, then
that software needs to be fixed. Not an Elecraft problem.

And, FWIW, the SPLIT icon is rather large and is immediately above the
VFO B display.

73 de dave
ab9ca/4

On 2/18/15 8:23 AM, Doug VE3VS wrote:

> I have been a K3 user for a few years. The one event that has always bugged
> me is that it seems way too easy to unknowingly have the rig "drop out" of
> SPLIT, with the result that I have made far too many transmissions
> (unwittingly) on the DX calling frequency rather than where the frequency of
> VFO B is indicating, and where the cursor on the P3 is showing. Yes, I know
> about the yellow LED and the tiny down indicator and the small (SPLT) that
> should be illuminated. However, many of my previous rigs have always had
> what I considered to be a superb feature, the flipping of the frequency
> readouts, a very visible and noticeable change that can be picked up with
> even peripheral vision if looking somewhat away from the actual readout. I
> have a single receiver in my K3, and naturally I quite often use the REV
> button to check out the pileup. Notice how easily the display flips. I
> really wish the display would do exactly that when PTT is asserted, so it
> would clearly indicate that I really am still operating split.
>
> I hope this could become a "user option" in the near future.
> Doug VE3VS
>

Ted Roycraft-2

Re: Split operation - display of Transmit frequency on keydown

One way you can "drop out of SPLIT" is this. If the "SPLIT SV" menu
item is OFF, and you are operating split, if you switch to another band
and turn SPLIT off, then come back to the original band, SPLIT will be
OFF. Turn "SPLIT SV" ON to fix this. That way, the split status per
band is maintained.

73, Ted, W2ZK

On 2/18/2015 11:21 AM, dave wrote:

>
> > too easy to unknowingly have the rig "drop out" of
> > SPLIT
>
> I'm curious about this, how does the K3 "drop out of SPLIT"?
>
> The only way I know to get into and out of split is to hold the A>B
> button. Is there some other front panel way? Is there a firmware bug
> that occasionally causes the K3 to forget it is in split? Or some
> combination of presses of other buttons?
>
> Holding the A>B button takes a conscious effort. Not something that
> happens accidentally.
>
> If it is external software (rig control, logger, etc) doing it, then
> that software needs to be fixed. Not an Elecraft problem.
>
> And, FWIW, the SPLIT icon is rather large and is immediately above the
> VFO B display.
>
> 73 de dave
> ab9ca/4
>
>
>
> On 2/18/15 8:23 AM, Doug VE3VS wrote:
>> I have been a K3 user for a few years. The one event that has always
>> bugged
>> me is that it seems way too easy to unknowingly have the rig "drop
>> out" of
>> SPLIT, with the result that I have made far too many transmissions
>> (unwittingly) on the DX calling frequency rather than where the
>> frequency of
>> VFO B is indicating, and where the cursor on the P3 is showing. Yes,
>> I know
>> about the yellow LED and the tiny down indicator and the small (SPLT)
>> that
>> should be illuminated. However, many of my previous rigs have always had
>> what I considered to be a superb feature, the flipping of the frequency
>> readouts, a very visible and noticeable change that can be picked up
>> with
>> even peripheral vision if looking somewhat away from the actual
>> readout. I
>> have a single receiver in my K3, and naturally I quite often use the REV
>> button to check out the pileup. Notice how easily the display flips. I
>> really wish the display would do exactly that when PTT is asserted,
>> so it
>> would clearly indicate that I really am still operating split.
>>
>> I hope this could become a "user option" in the near future.
>> Doug VE3VS
>>
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Jim Bolit

Re: Split operation - display of Transmit frequency on keydown

In reply to this post by wayne burdick

And then, responsible people will cover up the annoying flashing LED with
tape.

Jim
W6AIM

-----Original Message-----
From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Wayne
Burdick
Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 10:17 PM
To: [hidden email]
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Split operation - display of Transmit frequency on
keydown

I argued for this a long time ago, but Eric and others convinced me that a
flashing Delta-F LED would be "too" (!) annoying. Maybe they will recant,
given this discussion.

Wayne
N6KR

On Feb 17, 2015, at 10:08 PM, David Cole <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Why not flash the Delta f lamp when in split?
> --
> Thanks and 73's,
> For equipment, and software setups and reviews see:
> www.nk7z.net
> for MixW support see;
> http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/mixw/info
> for Dopplergram information see:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/dopplergram/info
> for MM-SSTV see:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/MM-SSTV/info
>
>
>
>
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Jim Bolit

Re: Split operation - display of Transmit frequency on keydown

In reply to this post by Cady, Fred

We need more Btu's to boil the ocean, to solve this major
problem..................

Yea, right

Jim
W6AIM

-----Original Message-----
From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Cady,
Fred
Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2015 4:22 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Split operation - display of Transmit frequency on
keydown

What I'd like to see is a change to the cursors in the P3. It would be nice
if the transmit VFO were always red. So when not split, VFO A would be red,
when XIT on, VFO A receive would be green and the XIT offset shown in red(as
it is now). VFO B could stay magenta. When split, VFO receive is green and
VFO B red.

Flashing something when in split doesn't warn you when you should be in
split and are not so I agree with Eric.

Cheers,
Fred KE7X

-----Original Message-----
From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Wayne
Burdick
Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 11:17 PM
To: [hidden email]
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Split operation - display of Transmit frequency on
keydown

I argued for this a long time ago, but Eric and others convinced me that a
flashing Delta-F LED would be "too" (!) annoying. Maybe they will recant,
given this discussion.

Wayne
N6KR

On Feb 17, 2015, at 10:08 PM, David Cole <[hidden email]> wrote:

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Pierfrancesco Caci

Re: Split operation - display of Transmit frequency on keydown

In reply to this post by wayne burdick

So long as it doesn't also mess up with the output of the FA command.
It's already bad enough that the radio stops to respond at all when you
press REV, making all the software go in hamlib timeout.

Thanks

Pf

>>>>> "Wayne" == Wayne Burdick <[hidden email]> writes:

Wayne> Or, we could replace the *entire* VFO A display with the word "SPLIT" during key-down. This would be even more obvious, and it wouldn't mess up the VFO B display. VFO B is what you care about during split TX.
Wayne> Wayne

--
Pierfrancesco Caci, ik5pvx
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Wes (N7WS)

Re: Split operation - display of Transmit frequency onkeydown

In reply to this post by Vic Rosenthal

There is no end to the issues with split. I too have a macro that locks VFO A,
double taps A->B, holds A->B, and tunes VFO B up 1. (Maybe in a different order,
I forget).

The end result is that I'm split up 1. Great starting point on CW, but when on
SSB and the split is huge (K1N) I may forget to use it. Or, this happens: K1N is
on 75-meter SSB past his sunrise and fading fast. He's pretty much run out of
callers so he is announcing his exact listening frequency. Without further ado
I dial it up on VFO B, try to hold A->B to go into split, but accidentally tap
it instead. Realizing that I'm not in split, I try again. Now I'm split okay
but I'm transmitting on top of him.

We need a K4 with a bigger front panel and improved ergonomics, a stronger 2nd
mixer and a high voltage FET PA.

Wes N7WS

ps. I did work K1N just before he went QRT for 12 slots.

On 2/18/2015 4:10 AM, Vic Rosenthal 4X6GP/K2VCO wrote:

> I think as you and W4TV have pointed out, there isn't a problem in determining
> that SPLIT is on. Not noticing that it's OFF is the issue! Wayne can make the
> radio sit up and whistle 'Dixie' when SPLIT is on and it will not help.
>
> I used to be prime cop meat until I made a macro to turn on SPLIT as well as
> set VFO B up a couple of kHz. What caused my error was that I was so focused
> on finding the station working the DX with VFO B, that I forgot the extra
> button press.
>
> My solution was to combine turning on SPLIT with offsetting VFO B. Either the
> user can make a macro, or Wayne could implement the much-discussed
> programmable SPLIT feature.
>

Guy Olinger K2AV

Re: Split operation - display of Transmit frequency on keydown

In reply to this post by Dwayne Rohmer

Amen, maybe modulate the off and on at an audio frequency to make it
wax and wane instead of blink.

Nah, I didn't say that. I really didn't. That strange guy standing
over there in the corner, he said it, wasn't me....

73, Guy

On Wed, Feb 18, 2015 at 1:38 AM, Dwayne Rohmer <[hidden email]> wrote:

> How about CONFIG: DELTA-F LED (nor or FLASH)
>
> 73,
>
> Dwayne WV5I
>
> On 2/18/2015 12:17 AM, Wayne Burdick wrote:
>>
>> I argued for this a long time ago, but Eric and others convinced me that a
>> flashing Delta-F LED would be "too" (!) annoying. Maybe they will recant,
>> given this discussion.
>>
>> Wayne
>> N6KR
>>
>>
>>
>> On Feb 17, 2015, at 10:08 PM, David Cole <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> Why not flash the Delta f lamp when in split?
>>> --
>>> Thanks and 73's,
>>> For equipment, and software setups and reviews see:
>>> www.nk7z.net
>>> for MixW support see;
>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/mixw/info
>>> for Dopplergram information see:
>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/dopplergram/info
>>> for MM-SSTV see:
>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/MM-SSTV/info
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
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NK7Z

Re: Split operation - display of Transmit frequency on keydown

In reply to this post by Dave-7

Mode change drops it out of split
--
Thanks and 73's,
For equipment, and software setups and reviews see:
www.nk7z.net
for MixW support see;
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/mixw/info
for Dopplergram information see:
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/dopplergram/info
for MM-SSTV see:
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/MM-SSTV/info

On Wed, 2015-02-18 at 10:21 -0600, dave wrote:
> > too easy to unknowingly have the rig "drop out" of
> > SPLIT
>
> I'm curious about this, how does the K3 "drop out of SPLIT"?
>
> The only way I know to get into and out of split is to hold the A>B
> button.

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Dave-7

Re: Split operation - display of Transmit frequency on keydown

On the K3 here, changing mode does not cause it to drop out of split.
I can change between SSB and CW and it remains in split. If I try to
go to DATA or AM it shows a 'SPLIT N/A' message in the VFO B window
and refuses to change modes. So the op must manually turn off split to
go to those modes. And if the op has to push the button, that is not a
drop out.

73 de dave
ab9ca/4

On 2/18/15 12:15 PM, David Cole wrote:
> Mode change drops it out of split
>
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riese-k3djc

Re: Split operation - display of Transmit frequency on keydown

In reply to this post by Bob Harvey - K2PI

On Wed, 18 Feb 2015 12:48:13 -0600 dave <[hidden email]> writes:
>
> On the K3 here, changing mode does not cause it to drop out of
> split.
> I can change between SSB and CW and it remains in split. If I try to
>
>

This isnt going to go away ? kinda a bit much

Bob K3DJC

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NK7Z

Re: Split operation - display of Transmit frequency on keydown

In reply to this post by Dave-7

Hi Dave,
That is very odd, mine did! I tested it several times, and now no... I
am confused.
--
Thanks and 73's,
For equipment, and software setups and reviews see:
www.nk7z.net
for MixW support see;
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/mixw/info
for Dopplergram information see:
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/dopplergram/info
for MM-SSTV see:
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/MM-SSTV/info

On Wed, 2015-02-18 at 12:48 -0600, dave wrote:

> On the K3 here, changing mode does not cause it to drop out of split.
> I can change between SSB and CW and it remains in split. If I try to
> go to DATA or AM it shows a 'SPLIT N/A' message in the VFO B window
> and refuses to change modes. So the op must manually turn off split to
> go to those modes. And if the op has to push the button, that is not a
> drop out.
>
> 73 de dave
> ab9ca/4
>
>
>
> On 2/18/15 12:15 PM, David Cole wrote:
> > Mode change drops it out of split
> >

NK7Z

Re: Split operation - display of Transmit frequency on keydown

In reply to this post by Dave-7

I can reproduce it now...Place the rig in USB... Press and hold
Split... Change modes to CW, split goes away every time here.
--
Thanks and 73's,
For equipment, and software setups and reviews see:
www.nk7z.net
for MixW support see;
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/mixw/info
for Dopplergram information see:
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/dopplergram/info
for MM-SSTV see:
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/MM-SSTV/info

On Wed, 2015-02-18 at 12:48 -0600, dave wrote:

Doug Holmes

Re: Split operation - display of Transmit frequency on keydown

In reply to this post by Dave-7

Hi Dave,
I use macros to set up my split and remove it when finished. That works
very well. I am also familiar with "tap - tap - hold" to set the rig
into split mode.
However, if I happen to do something unrelated, and then later return
to the DX, I may have caused the split to have dropped out. I do not use
the special setting under CONFIG to hold that for me. Most of the time I
don't want to maintain the split while working a typical two-way contact.

So the problem for me is "How can I be certain that the split is active
when I am expecting it?" I know there are three signals on the rig, but
if I happen to be concentrating on the P3, or something else, I may not
notice that I have lost the split that I had there just moments ago. I
often follow the "red line" on the P3 as I search for a clear spot to
make my call - - only to find out that the VFO B split wasn't really
activated after all. Food for the "frequency cops". Embarrassing for me.

regards, Doug, VE3VS

On 2/18/2015 11:21 AM, dave wrote:

Elecraft mailing list

Re: Split operation - display of Transmit frequency on keydown

In reply to this post by NK7Z

Isn't that what the red is showing?

From: David Cole <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2015 10:23 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Split operation - display of Transmit frequency on keydown

What a good idea! Also, why not just write SPLIT on the screen
someplace of the P3, and flash the Delta-F light.
--
Thanks and 73's,
For equipment, and software setups and reviews see:
www.nk7z.net
for MixW support see;
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/mixw/info
for Dopplergram information see:
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/dopplergram/info
for MM-SSTV see:
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/MM-SSTV/info

On Wed, 2015-02-18 at 05:22 -0700, Cady, Fred wrote:

> What I'd like to see is a change to the cursors in the P3. It would be nice if the transmit VFO were always red. So when not split, VFO A would be red, when XIT on, VFO A receive would be green and the XIT offset shown in red(as it is now). VFO B could stay magenta. When split, VFO receive is green and VFO B red.
>
> Flashing something when in split doesn't warn you when you should be in split and are not so I agree with Eric.
>
> Cheers,
> Fred KE7X
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Wayne Burdick
> Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 11:17 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Cc: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Split operation - display of Transmit frequency on keydown
>
> I argued for this a long time ago, but Eric and others convinced me that a flashing Delta-F LED would be "too" (!) annoying. Maybe they will recant, given this discussion.
>
> Wayne
> N6KR
>
>
>
> On Feb 17, 2015, at 10:08 PM, David Cole <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Why not flash the Delta f lamp when in split?
> > --
> > Thanks and 73's,
> > For equipment, and software setups and reviews see:
> > www.nk7z.net
> > for MixW support see;
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/mixw/info
> > for Dopplergram information see:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/dopplergram/info
> > for MM-SSTV see:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/MM-SSTV/info
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
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> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
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> > list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to
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> ______________________________________________________________
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Re: Split operation - display of Transmit frequency onkeydown

In reply to this post by wayne burdick

Gee after reading several pages of discourse on split - I have reached the
conclusion that it really was all the radios fault when in the heat of
battle or a quick band change ( Hey the bandswitch buttons on the KPA are
worth the price of the KPA for that alone !!!!) I did not notice I lost the
split - Good to know it was not me .

nothing is my fault anymore - sound familiar ???

Hank K&HP

Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Split operation - display of Transmit frequency
onkeydown

I argued for this a long time ago, but Eric and others convinced me that a
flashing Delta-F LED would be "too" (!) annoying. Maybe they will recant,
given this discussion.

Wayne
N6KR

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MontyS

Re: Split operation - display of Transmit frequencyonkeydown

The sarcasm some claim is being lost in the noise of ludicrous explanations.

It may make some of us who read the reflector posts to learn more prone to
unsubscription.

Just sayin'. YMMV. FWIW.

K2DLJ - catch my article in April QST!!

nothing is my fault anymore - sound familiar ???

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