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Suggestions for good 192kHz external sound card for digital modes

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David Orman

Suggestions for good 192kHz external sound card for digital modes

Hi,

Splitting off from the Signalink thread, since it's actually a different
question, what are the current external sound cards that people suggest
(that are supported in Linux if known - if not - that's ok)?

I see the Tascam mentioned in the PDF in the other thread, so I'm looking
into those (the ones that support 192kHz now, that is) - are there any
other suggestions to look into? I operate on a lot of digital modes, but my
Lenovo Thinkpad T400's built in sound card adds a lot of noise to the
signal I'm receiving. I have a Native Instruments Audio Kontrol 1 which
works much better, but it is USB powered (it seemed to be indicated this
was a no-no for best decoding in digital modes in the other thread).

There are a lot of options out there now, so it's hard to sift through them
all, and make a guess as to which are best for HF radio digital
communication, so I thought a thread would be helpful in getting some ideas
on what is tested/true. If Linux support is unknown, that's ok - I can do
that research - but it would be great to have a list to start looking at
that are known good performers with low noise.

Thanks!
David/K5DJO
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Don Wilhelm-4

Re: Suggestions for good 192kHz external sound card for digital modes

David,

There is nothing wrong with USB powered soundcards *if* the USB power is
well filtered.
Some soundcards do that better than others.
One place to look for soundcards that have been tested by the
manufacturer of LP-Pan is at his website www.telepostinc.com.
Yes, all of Larry's info is Windows based, but the soundcard hardware
info should be valid no matter what the OS may be.
The LP-Pan yahoo group reflector is a good place to obtain additional
information about soundcards and the LP-Pan as well as LP-Bridge.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 11/11/2014 7:08 PM, David Orman wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Splitting off from the Signalink thread, since it's actually a different
> question, what are the current external sound cards that people suggest
> (that are supported in Linux if known - if not - that's ok)?
>
> I see the Tascam mentioned in the PDF in the other thread, so I'm looking
> into those (the ones that support 192kHz now, that is) - are there any
> other suggestions to look into? I operate on a lot of digital modes, but my
> Lenovo Thinkpad T400's built in sound card adds a lot of noise to the
> signal I'm receiving. I have a Native Instruments Audio Kontrol 1 which
> works much better, but it is USB powered (it seemed to be indicated this
> was a no-no for best decoding in digital modes in the other thread).
>
> There are a lot of options out there now, so it's hard to sift through them
> all, and make a guess as to which are best for HF radio digital
> communication, so I thought a thread would be helpful in getting some ideas
> on what is tested/true. If Linux support is unknown, that's ok - I can do
> that research - but it would be great to have a list to start looking at
> that are known good performers with low noise.
>

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Barry K3NDM

Re: Suggestions for good 192kHz external sound card for digital modes

In reply to this post by David Orman

David,

I've been using the external USB Steinberg UR22. It's 192KHz sample rate at 24 bits. It's listed as have a 120 db SNR. It's ASIO compliant and cost is around $130 from Sweetwater. I don't know if Linux supports this card or not.

73,
Barry
K3NDM
----- Original Message -----

From: "David Orman" <[hidden email]>
To: "elecraft" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2014 7:08:12 PM
Subject: [Elecraft] Suggestions for good 192kHz external sound card for digital modes

Hi,

Splitting off from the Signalink thread, since it's actually a different
question, what are the current external sound cards that people suggest
(that are supported in Linux if known - if not - that's ok)?

I see the Tascam mentioned in the PDF in the other thread, so I'm looking
into those (the ones that support 192kHz now, that is) - are there any
other suggestions to look into? I operate on a lot of digital modes, but my
Lenovo Thinkpad T400's built in sound card adds a lot of noise to the
signal I'm receiving. I have a Native Instruments Audio Kontrol 1 which
works much better, but it is USB powered (it seemed to be indicated this
was a no-no for best decoding in digital modes in the other thread).

There are a lot of options out there now, so it's hard to sift through them
all, and make a guess as to which are best for HF radio digital
communication, so I thought a thread would be helpful in getting some ideas
on what is tested/true. If Linux support is unknown, that's ok - I can do
that research - but it would be great to have a list to start looking at
that are known good performers with low noise.

Thanks!
David/K5DJO
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Jim Brown-10

Re: Suggestions for good 192kHz external sound card for digital modes

In reply to this post by David Orman

On Tue,11/11/2014 4:08 PM, David Orman wrote:
> I have a Native Instruments Audio Kontrol 1 which
> works much better, but it is USB powered (it seemed to be indicated this
> was a no-no for best decoding in digital modes in the other thread).

Not necessarily -- the problem with the SignalLink is that it's done
badly. Both of the units I recommend are USB powered. In the pdf, I
described how I tested. If you run JT65 and regularly see decodes in the
range of -20 and have no issues with hum, buzz, or RFI, your unit is
probably fine.

73, Jim K9YC
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Byron Servies

Re: Suggestions for good 192kHz external sound card for digital modes

FYI,

The current high end Tascam is the US 366 and there is a $50 rebate through
the end of the year, so it is $149.99 from just about everywhere (B&H is my
favorite, too).

73, Byron N6NUL

On Tue, Nov 11, 2014 at 8:07 PM, Jim Brown <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> On Tue,11/11/2014 4:08 PM, David Orman wrote:
>
>> I have a Native Instruments Audio Kontrol 1 which
>> works much better, but it is USB powered (it seemed to be indicated this
>> was a no-no for best decoding in digital modes in the other thread).
>>
>
> Not necessarily -- the problem with the SignalLink is that it's done
> badly. Both of the units I recommend are USB powered. In the pdf, I
> described how I tested. If you run JT65 and regularly see decodes in the
> range of -20 and have no issues with hum, buzz, or RFI, your unit is
> probably fine.

--
- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the Cal QSO Party 3-4 Oct 2015
- www.cqp.org
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Phil Wheeler-2

Re: Suggestions for good 192kHz external sound card for digital modes

Interesting that the Tascam (assuming it's the
same model) is not recommended here

http://www.telepostinc.com/soundcards.html#Table

Phil W7OX

On 11/11/14 8:26 PM, Byron Servies wrote:

> FYI,
>
> The current high end Tascam is the US 366 and there is a $50 rebate through
> the end of the year, so it is $149.99 from just about everywhere (B&H is my
> favorite, too).
>
> 73, Byron N6NUL
>
> On Tue, Nov 11, 2014 at 8:07 PM, Jim Brown <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>> On Tue,11/11/2014 4:08 PM, David Orman wrote:
>>
>>> I have a Native Instruments Audio Kontrol 1 which
>>> works much better, but it is USB powered (it seemed to be indicated this
>>> was a no-no for best decoding in digital modes in the other thread).
>>>
>> Not necessarily -- the problem with the SignalLink is that it's done
>> badly. Both of the units I recommend are USB powered. In the pdf, I
>> described how I tested. If you run JT65 and regularly see decodes in the
>> range of -20 and have no issues with hum, buzz, or RFI, your unit is
>> probably fine.
>

Byron Servies

Re: Suggestions for good 192kHz external sound card for digital modes

Yes. He had trouble with the driver installation.

He used to recommend the E-MU 0204, which I have never managed to get
working for the same reason.

YMMV,

Byron N6NUL

On Tue, Nov 11, 2014 at 8:59 PM, Phil Wheeler <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Interesting that the Tascam (assuming it's the same model) is not
> recommended here
>
> http://www.telepostinc.com/soundcards.html#Table
>
> Phil W7OX
>
> On 11/11/14 8:26 PM, Byron Servies wrote:
>
> FYI,
>
> The current high end Tascam is the US 366 and there is a $50 rebate through
> the end of the year, so it is $149.99 from just about everywhere (B&H is my
> favorite, too).
>
> 73, Byron N6NUL
>
> On Tue, Nov 11, 2014 at 8:07 PM, Jim Brown <[hidden email]> <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>
> On Tue,11/11/2014 4:08 PM, David Orman wrote:
>
>
> I have a Native Instruments Audio Kontrol 1 which
> works much better, but it is USB powered (it seemed to be indicated this
> was a no-no for best decoding in digital modes in the other thread).
>
>
> Not necessarily -- the problem with the SignalLink is that it's done
> badly. Both of the units I recommend are USB powered. In the pdf, I
> described how I tested. If you run JT65 and regularly see decodes in the
> range of -20 and have no issues with hum, buzz, or RFI, your unit is
> probably fine.
>
>
>

Wes (N7WS)

Re: Suggestions for good 192kHz external sound card for digital modes

In reply to this post by Barry K3NDM

Operationally, at least with a K3 and the modes I operate I've seen no
difference between the built-in sound card on my Lenovo T400, a TASCAM US-100 or
a SignaLink.

Admittedly, I haven't yet tried the digital modes that dig out imaginary signals
from the noise, but on RTTY and PSK I simply can't see an advantage to a better
sound card. My T400 is what I use. I sold the SignaLink, so I can no longer
compare but I just did a quick test on the other two.

Using Spectrum Lab and listening to my Elecraft XG2 on 14 MHz with the K3 line
out into the sound card, the SNR with either the T400 or the Tascam is about 50
dB. This is with the XG2 set to low power (~S3), AGC off, 400 Hz crystal
filter. The filter shape is easily seen and disconnecting either card drops the
baseline noise about 30 dB. I say "about" because about is good enough. The
T400 is slightly microphonic but this is only seen with no audio input.

IMHO, the SNR is set by the receiver and the defects in any practical sound card
are, excuse the pun, in the noise. I'm looking at a couple of KHz of audio, why
would I need a 192KHz, 24 bit card? (Actually, the T400 card is such)

All of the other hand wringing about PTT, Windows sounds, etc, are just that,
hand wringing. Turn off Windows sounds, turn on VOX and enjoy.

Wes N7WS

From: "David Orman" <[hidden email]>
To: "elecraft" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2014 7:08:12 PM
Subject: [Elecraft] Suggestions for good 192kHz external sound card for digital modes

Hi,

Splitting off from the Signalink thread, since it's actually a different
question, what are the current external sound cards that people suggest
(that are supported in Linux if known - if not - that's ok)?

I see the Tascam mentioned in the PDF in the other thread, so I'm looking
into those (the ones that support 192kHz now, that is) - are there any
other suggestions to look into? I operate on a lot of digital modes, but my
Lenovo Thinkpad T400's built in sound card adds a lot of noise to the
signal I'm receiving. I have a Native Instruments Audio Kontrol 1 which
works much better, but it is USB powered (it seemed to be indicated this
was a no-no for best decoding in digital modes in the other thread).

There are a lot of options out there now, so it's hard to sift through them
all, and make a guess as to which are best for HF radio digital
communication, so I thought a thread would be helpful in getting some ideas
on what is tested/true. If Linux support is unknown, that's ok - I can do
that research - but it would be great to have a list to start looking at
that are known good performers with low noise.

Thanks!
David/K5DJO

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Phil Wheeler-2

Re: Suggestions for good 192kHz external sound card for digital modes

Probably very true, Wes -- for the K3. I have two
mitigating factors which pushed me to Signalink USB:

* I do PSK31 with my K3 and with my older K2/100
(though not much with that anymore)
* My 10.1" $280 HP notebook may or may not have
an adequate sound card; but access to AF in
and out is via a 4 conductor plug and I really
hate messing with those guys. The Signalink
USB with the Tigertronics-provided cables is
just an easier road to follow. I even have a
set for my KX3, though I've not yet tried it
on PSK31.

So far I've not ventured into JT65, just PSK31. No
RTTY yet -- well not for about 30 years, when the
technology was very different:-)

73, Phil W7OX

On 11/12/14 2:01 PM, Wes (N7WS) wrote:

> Operationally, at least with a K3 and the modes
> I operate I've seen no difference between the
> built-in sound card on my Lenovo T400, a TASCAM
> US-100 or a SignaLink.
>
> Admittedly, I haven't yet tried the digital
> modes that dig out imaginary signals from the
> noise, but on RTTY and PSK I simply can't see an
> advantage to a better sound card. My T400 is
> what I use. I sold the SignaLink, so I can no
> longer compare but I just did a quick test on
> the other two.
>
> Using Spectrum Lab and listening to my Elecraft
> XG2 on 14 MHz with the K3 line out into the
> sound card, the SNR with either the T400 or the
> Tascam is about 50 dB. This is with the XG2 set
> to low power (~S3), AGC off, 400 Hz crystal
> filter. The filter shape is easily seen and
> disconnecting either card drops the baseline
> noise about 30 dB. I say "about" because about
> is good enough. The T400 is slightly
> microphonic but this is only seen with no audio
> input.
>
> IMHO, the SNR is set by the receiver and the
> defects in any practical sound card are, excuse
> the pun, in the noise. I'm looking at a couple
> of KHz of audio, why would I need a 192KHz, 24
> bit card? (Actually, the T400 card is such)
>
> All of the other hand wringing about PTT,
> Windows sounds, etc, are just that, hand
> wringing. Turn off Windows sounds, turn on VOX
> and enjoy.
>
> Wes N7WS
>
>
>
> From: "David Orman" <[hidden email]>
> To: "elecraft" <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2014 7:08:12 PM
> Subject: [Elecraft] Suggestions for good 192kHz
> external sound card for digital modes
>
> Hi,
>
> Splitting off from the Signalink thread, since
> it's actually a different
> question, what are the current external sound
> cards that people suggest
> (that are supported in Linux if known - if not -
> that's ok)?
>
> I see the Tascam mentioned in the PDF in the
> other thread, so I'm looking
> into those (the ones that support 192kHz now,
> that is) - are there any
> other suggestions to look into? I operate on a
> lot of digital modes, but my
> Lenovo Thinkpad T400's built in sound card adds
> a lot of noise to the
> signal I'm receiving. I have a Native
> Instruments Audio Kontrol 1 which
> works much better, but it is USB powered (it
> seemed to be indicated this
> was a no-no for best decoding in digital modes
> in the other thread).
>
> There are a lot of options out there now, so
> it's hard to sift through them
> all, and make a guess as to which are best for
> HF radio digital
> communication, so I thought a thread would be
> helpful in getting some ideas
> on what is tested/true. If Linux support is
> unknown, that's ok - I can do
> that research - but it would be great to have a
> list to start looking at
> that are known good performers with low noise.
>
> Thanks!
> David/K5DJO

Jim Brown-10

Re: Suggestions for good 192kHz external sound card for digital modes

In reply to this post by Wes (N7WS)

On Wed,11/12/2014 2:01 PM, Wes (N7WS) wrote:
> Admittedly, I haven't yet tried the digital modes that dig out
> imaginary signals from the noise, but on RTTY and PSK I simply can't
> see an advantage to a better sound card.

I don't disagree much with that, Wes. Although it might make a
difference with weak signals in those modes, it's not easy to test in a
quantifiable way. But it matters a lot for digital modes that work near
the noise floor.

73, Jim K9YC
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