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While attempting to get Z60A on 40M last night I ran into a problem that I never encountered before.
My KX2 has the built in auto ATU. I took the output from the rig into a QRP SWR/PWR bridge and then into my 40M EDZ and hit the "ATU" on the rig. "Click, Buzz" and the rig came up with a 1.0-1 SWR reading. HOWEVER, my QRP bridge was pegged in reverse indicating that there was no match. Earlier I had tried this set up on my 20M Yagi and it worked great. The rig gave me 1.0-1 and the analog meters on the QRP bridge did the same. The only thing I can think of is the 40M EDZ is the problem. I am going to try removing the QRP bridge and see if that makes a difference. In the mean time, anyone have a guess as to what I am seeing on 40M?? Vy 73 es gud DX! Rich Arland K7SZ Bent Dipole Ranch, Dacula, GA Author: "ARRL's Low Power Communications, the Art and Science of QRP" (all 4 editions) Cogito ergo CQ (I think therefore, I HAM) http://commobunker.blogspot.com/ ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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Rich:
May be a dumb question but is your SWR bridge between the ATU and the antenna? If so, it is not going to give you any useful information. Marv KG7V -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Rich Arland Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2018 4:31 PM To: Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]> Subject: [Elecraft] Suggestions?? While attempting to get Z60A on 40M last night I ran into a problem that I never encountered before. My KX2 has the built in auto ATU. I took the output from the rig into a QRP SWR/PWR bridge and then into my 40M EDZ and hit the "ATU" on the rig. "Click, Buzz" and the rig came up with a 1.0-1 SWR reading. HOWEVER, my QRP bridge was pegged in reverse indicating that there was no match. Earlier I had tried this set up on my 20M Yagi and it worked great. The rig gave me 1.0-1 and the analog meters on the QRP bridge did the same. The only thing I can think of is the 40M EDZ is the problem. I am going to try removing the QRP bridge and see if that makes a difference. In the mean time, anyone have a guess as to what I am seeing on 40M?? Vy 73 es gud DX! Rich Arland K7SZ Bent Dipole Ranch, Dacula, GA Author: "ARRL's Low Power Communications, the Art and Science of QRP" (all 4 editions) Cogito ergo CQ (I think therefore, I HAM) http://commobunker.blogspot.com/ ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by RichA
The Zepp is not 50R. The Yagi is. Both SWR meters are likely telling you
the truth. -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Rich Arland Sent: Monday, 29 January 2018 10:31 AM To: Elecraft Reflector Subject: [Elecraft] Suggestions?? While attempting to get Z60A on 40M last night I ran into a problem that I never encountered before. My KX2 has the built in auto ATU. I took the output from the rig into a QRP SWR/PWR bridge and then into my 40M EDZ and hit the "ATU" on the rig. "Click, Buzz" and the rig came up with a 1.0-1 SWR reading. HOWEVER, my QRP bridge was pegged in reverse indicating that there was no match. Earlier I had tried this set up on my 20M Yagi and it worked great. The rig gave me 1.0-1 and the analog meters on the QRP bridge did the same. The only thing I can think of is the 40M EDZ is the problem. I am going to try removing the QRP bridge and see if that makes a difference. In the mean time, anyone have a guess as to what I am seeing on 40M?? Vy 73 es gud DX! Rich Arland K7SZ Bent Dipole Ranch, Dacula, GA Author: "ARRL's Low Power Communications, the Art and Science of QRP" (all 4 editions) Cogito ergo CQ (I think therefore, I HAM) http://commobunker.blogspot.com/ ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by RichA
Rich,
As you describe your configuration, your SWR bridge is between your KX2 and the antenna. The matching that takes place is within your KX2, and apparently, the ATU was able to achieve a match. That doesn't change what was happening on the transmission line from the antenna to your SWR bridge, it is what is is and always was. No "antenna tuner" in the history of humankind has ever "tuned" an antenna. It's a really unfortunate choice of nomenclature. The ATU in your KX2 transformed the impedance it saw at the antenna connector to something the PA stage was happy with. That's all. Nothing changed on the transmission line from the antenna as evidenced by your SWR Bridge's report. That very high SWR on your transmission line could be anything from a "Not To Worry" to a "Very High Loss" situation. You didn't say what your transmission line is, EDZ antennas are often fed with some form of open-wire line. If so for you, losses are likely low. If it's fed with coax, maybe not so much. If you make Q's, it's working, that's why it's called "Amateur Radio." [:-) 73, Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW Sparks NV DM09dn Washoe County On 1/28/2018 4:31 PM, Rich Arland wrote: > While attempting to get Z60A on 40M last night I ran into a problem that I never encountered before. > > > My KX2 has the built in auto ATU. I took the output from the rig into a QRP SWR/PWR bridge and then into my 40M EDZ and hit the "ATU" on the rig. "Click, Buzz" and the rig came up with a 1.0-1 SWR reading. HOWEVER, my QRP bridge was pegged in reverse indicating that there was no match. > > > Earlier I had tried this set up on my 20M Yagi and it worked great. The rig gave me 1.0-1 and the analog meters on the QRP bridge did the same. > > > The only thing I can think of is the 40M EDZ is the problem. I am going to try removing the QRP bridge and see if that makes a difference. > > > In the mean time, anyone have a guess as to what I am seeing on 40M?? > > > > Vy 73 es gud DX! > > Rich Arland K7SZ > Bent Dipole Ranch, Dacula, GA > Author: "ARRL's Low Power Communications, the Art and Science of QRP" (all 4 editions) > > Cogito ergo CQ (I think therefore, I HAM) > http://commobunker.blogspot.com/ > > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to [hidden email] > > > -- > This message has been scanned by E.F.A. Project and is believed to be clean. > > > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by RichA
Rich,
I assume you are using the internal ATU. If so, the external wattmeter will not change - it will show the SWR into the antenna, and not at the input to the internal ATU. An ATU does not change the antenna SWR, it only adds L and C in a combination that will make the PA transistors in the transmitter 'happy' which allows maximum power output. 73, Don W3FPR On 1/28/2018 7:31 PM, Rich Arland wrote: > While attempting to get Z60A on 40M last night I ran into a problem that I never encountered before. > > > My KX2 has the built in auto ATU. I took the output from the rig into a QRP SWR/PWR bridge and then into my 40M EDZ and hit the "ATU" on the rig. "Click, Buzz" and the rig came up with a 1.0-1 SWR reading. HOWEVER, my QRP bridge was pegged in reverse indicating that there was no match. > > > Earlier I had tried this set up on my 20M Yagi and it worked great. The rig gave me 1.0-1 and the analog meters on the QRP bridge did the same. > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by RichA
Thanks Bob and all the others who responded.
I figured that the KX2 internal ATU and SWR/PWR meter was giving me the "match" between the 50 ohm of the rig and the QRP SWR/PWR meter and that I had a problem with the 40M EDZ which has been up for over 9 years. I removed the QRP meter from the equation and the KX2 ATU gave me a 1.2-1 match on the EDZ, at which time I went out to the tower and checked the balun on the end of the 450 ohm window line. While it was hooked up correctly and there were no broken wires, when I looked at the feed point on the mast on the roof it looked like one of the feed line wires was either broken or otherwise hanging out in mid air. Now at least I have a probable cause for the strange RF readings. Since it is pretty nice weather here in my area I am planning on shooting a line into one of the 100 ft trees on the edge of our property and string up an end fed wire of some non-resonant length and use this until I can get some local club members together and replace the entire 40M EDZ and hang it on the tower at about 60-65 ft! Oh, there will be a counterpoise on the end fed wire! Has anyone on this group ever modeled a long, non-resonant end fed wire w/counterpoise that can give me some idea of how directional they are (or aren't)? I need to get a copy of EL-NEC! Vy 73 es gud DX! Rich Arland K7SZ Bent Dipole Ranch, Dacula, GA Author: "ARRL's Low Power Communications, the Art and Science of QRP" (all 4 editions) Cogito ergo CQ (I think therefore, I HAM) http://commobunker.blogspot.com/ ________________________________ From: Bob McGraw K4TAX <[hidden email]> Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2018 9:03 PM To: Rich Arland Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Suggestions?? The ATU in the KX2 does not change the SWR on the feedline. So your QRP SDR/PWR meter, which is after the KX2 ATU, is showing the SWR on the feedline. The KX2 is showing the SWR between the PA stage in the radio and the input to the ATU. As to 20M. Likely your match is good with or without the ATU thus the external meter is showing the SWR on the feedline. Nothing wrong except you need to work on that 40M antenna and improve the SWR to a respectable value. 73 Bob K4TAX On 1/28/2018 6:31 PM, Rich Arland wrote: > While attempting to get Z60A on 40M last night I ran into a problem that I never encountered before. > > > My KX2 has the built in auto ATU. I took the output from the rig into a QRP SWR/PWR bridge and then into my 40M EDZ and hit the "ATU" on the rig. "Click, Buzz" and the rig came up with a 1.0-1 SWR reading. HOWEVER, my QRP bridge was pegged in reverse indicating that there was no match. > > > Earlier I had tried this set up on my 20M Yagi and it worked great. The rig gave me 1.0-1 and the analog meters on the QRP bridge did the same. > > > The only thing I can think of is the 40M EDZ is the problem. I am going to try removing the QRP bridge and see if that makes a difference. > > > In the mean time, anyone have a guess as to what I am seeing on 40M?? > > > > Vy 73 es gud DX! > > Rich Arland K7SZ > Bent Dipole Ranch, Dacula, GA > Author: "ARRL's Low Power Communications, the Art and Science of QRP" (all 4 editions) > > Cogito ergo CQ (I think therefore, I HAM) > http://commobunker.blogspot.com/ > > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to [hidden email] > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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