Elecraft

Surge Protection

Classic

List

Threaded

7 messages Options

Bill Levy

Surge Protection

Gents,

I do not think it is worthwhile to buy surge protection for individual
items.
I live in NW CO and we have thunderstorms all summer and for years I used
surge protectors individually until my electrician suggested I put surge
protectors on my electric panels coming into my house, shacks, barns, guest
houses, library etc. So each building out west now has a surge protector on
the electrical panel which hisses and clicks during thunderstorms and of
course we tend to unplug ham sets and tv's and hi fi's and wifi's and all
the rest of the stuff.

Nothing man makes can protect your electronics from a direct hit to your
antennas or house and by direct I mean within 100 feet. Try as you might
it's bigger than us. So unplug and ground all antennas all the time.

73, Bill N2WL
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

W5KXX

Re: Surge Protection

Surge protectors do not help much. A UPS offers much better protection. Not
only does it protect equipment from voltage spikes, it assists with
blackouts and brownouts.

Many years ago when I lived in a third floor apartment there was a lightning
strike nearby. Most electric devices within my apartment were connected to
UPSes and had no damage. A digital clock and TV located in different rooms
were each connected to a surge protector. The clock was damaged beyond
repair. The TV acted strangely. It would not power on. At first I thought it
too was fried. I unplugged it for a minute to drain any stray charge. After
I plugged in the TV again it worked normally. Now I only use surge
protectors to extend an outlet from a UPS, as when connecting a small AC
adapter.

During a storm you have to disconnect the antenna and possibly other things.
I spent my early life growing up in the Chicago area, which had powerful
summer thunderstorms. One night I was surprised to see flashes of light on
the coil of an uncovered antenna tuner! My gear was not damaged, but now I
had another problem: disconnecting the antenna while the storm is in
progress and not get injured. Fortunately, everything worked out.

Mark
W5KXX

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of William Levy
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 3:05 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Elecraft] Surge Protection

Gents,

I do not think it is worthwhile to buy surge protection for individual
items.
I live in NW CO and we have thunderstorms all summer and for years I used
surge protectors individually until my electrician suggested I put surge
protectors on my electric panels coming into my house, shacks, barns, guest
houses, library etc. So each building out west now has a surge protector on
the electrical panel which hisses and clicks during thunderstorms and of
course we tend to unplug ham sets and tv's and hi fi's and wifi's and all
the rest of the stuff.

Nothing man makes can protect your electronics from a direct hit to your
antennas or house and by direct I mean within 100 feet. Try as you might
it's bigger than us. So unplug and ground all antennas all the time.

73, Bill N2WL
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Bob-270

Re: Surge Protection

In reply to this post by Bill Levy

Hi Bill,

I agree. I know neighbors here who have had failures of microwave
ovens, dishwashers,
and other household items that the control boards have been "smoked". The only
thing I have
ever lost was a PC modem and I believe that was via the phone line not the power
line.

NFI but I believe this was among the best deals I ever got:

http://www.deltasurgeprotectors.com/home.cfm

I put in the earlier version of the LA302R. I "think" it has worked
based on the failures of
others in my neighborhood. It is one of those things that I can not actually
prove worked. It has
been installed at my power service entrance for many years now.

Maybe I've been lucky but I take no extra protective steps other than
making sure my
antennas are grounded.

73,
Bob
K2TK ex KN2TKR (1956) & K2TKR

On 1/14/2013 4:05 PM, William Levy wrote:

> Gents,
>
> I do not think it is worthwhile to buy surge protection for individual
> items.
> I live in NW CO and we have thunderstorms all summer and for years I used
> surge protectors individually until my electrician suggested I put surge
> protectors on my electric panels coming into my house, shacks, barns, guest
> houses, library etc. So each building out west now has a surge protector on
> the electrical panel which hisses and clicks during thunderstorms and of
> course we tend to unplug ham sets and tv's and hi fi's and wifi's and all
> the rest of the stuff.
>
> Nothing man makes can protect your electronics from a direct hit to your
> antennas or house and by direct I mean within 100 feet. Try as you might
> it's bigger than us. So unplug and ground all antennas all the time.
>
> 73, Bill N2WL
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Ian Kahn, KM4IK

Re: Surge Protection

In reply to this post by W5KXX

Just as an FYI for everyone, using *any* type of extension device to go
from an outlet/device to a UPS typically nullifies any warranty the UPS
manufacturer offers. If you use an extension device (cord, surge
protector, etc.) there is no way to know if any power-related damage to
your device happened because of UPS failure or the failure of some other
device in the chain.

I've dealt with this often in my 18 years' work in IT.

--Ian

Ian Kahn, KM4IK
Roswell, GA EM74ua
[hidden email]
K3 #281, P3 #688
HRD v5.x/6.0 Test Team

On 1/14/2013 4:40 PM, Mark Kopec wrote:

> Surge protectors do not help much. A UPS offers much better protection. Not
> only does it protect equipment from voltage spikes, it assists with
> blackouts and brownouts.
>
> Many years ago when I lived in a third floor apartment there was a lightning
> strike nearby. Most electric devices within my apartment were connected to
> UPSes and had no damage. A digital clock and TV located in different rooms
> were each connected to a surge protector. The clock was damaged beyond
> repair. The TV acted strangely. It would not power on. At first I thought it
> too was fried. I unplugged it for a minute to drain any stray charge. After
> I plugged in the TV again it worked normally. Now I only use surge
> protectors to extend an outlet from a UPS, as when connecting a small AC
> adapter.
>
> During a storm you have to disconnect the antenna and possibly other things.
> I spent my early life growing up in the Chicago area, which had powerful
> summer thunderstorms. One night I was surprised to see flashes of light on
> the coil of an uncovered antenna tuner! My gear was not damaged, but now I
> had another problem: disconnecting the antenna while the storm is in
> progress and not get injured. Fortunately, everything worked out.
>
> Mark
> W5KXX
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of William Levy
> Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 3:05 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: [Elecraft] Surge Protection
>
> Gents,
>
> I do not think it is worthwhile to buy surge protection for individual
> items.
> I live in NW CO and we have thunderstorms all summer and for years I used
> surge protectors individually until my electrician suggested I put surge
> protectors on my electric panels coming into my house, shacks, barns, guest
> houses, library etc. So each building out west now has a surge protector on
> the electrical panel which hisses and clicks during thunderstorms and of
> course we tend to unplug ham sets and tv's and hi fi's and wifi's and all
> the rest of the stuff.
>
> Nothing man makes can protect your electronics from a direct hit to your
> antennas or house and by direct I mean within 100 feet. Try as you might
> it's bigger than us. So unplug and ground all antennas all the time.
>
> 73, Bill N2WL
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Don Wilhelm-4

Re: Surge Protection

In reply to this post by Bill Levy

Bill,

I can second that. I have a utility entrance surge protector
installed. I also have a Tripp-Lite surge protector as 'extra'
protection for everything in the hamshack. We had a close electrical
strike last summer. Nothing died as a result of being connected to the
AC mains, but it somehow jumped onto the wired Ethernet home network. I
lost 4 computers, a NAS file server, two switches, the router, and an
access point. It tripped all the GFCI receptacles in the outbuilding
(which does not have a surge protection but has separately metered power
feed). Only one GFCI breaker/receptacle in the house was tripped, so
something worked.

Yes, all antennas are grounded and the radios are connected to a dummy
load when the antenna switching system is powered down, so no radio damage.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 1/14/2013 4:05 PM, William Levy wrote:

W5KXX

Re: Surge Protection

In reply to this post by Ian Kahn, KM4IK

Good point about the extensions. However, I am under the impression that
none of the UPS or surge protector manufacturers would actually pay a claim
for power related damage regardless of the connection. When I researched
this issue several years ago I discovered the UPS and surge protector
manufacturers greatly depreciated the value of connected equipment so the
UPS or surge protector warranty is actually unusable. This is why the
advertising has outlandish claims of high value protection. The equipment
owner is left with trying to collect through homeowner's insurance, but that
solution would only work in event of a major catastrophe due to the
deductible.

I simply assume that I will be responsible for replacement of my equipment.
Two of my APC UPSes have an LCD. The display has been a good information
source during a brownout or power surge. A few months ago I noticed very
infrequent power surges where the AC line reached 185V. This occurred maybe
once a week. I had no idea what was causing it. Then one day a power
transformer for my street failed. After it was replaced I had no more
voltage spikes. The UPS handled the high voltage well, protecting
everything.

Mark

W5KXX

From: Ian Kahn - Ham [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 5:07 PM
To: Mark Kopec
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Surge Protection

Just as an FYI for everyone, using any type of extension device to go from
an outlet/device to a UPS typically nullifies any warranty the UPS
manufacturer offers. If you use an extension device (cord, surge protector,
etc.) there is no way to know if any power-related damage to your device
happened because of UPS failure or the failure of some other device in the
chain.

I've dealt with this often in my 18 years' work in IT.

--Ian

Ian Kahn, KM4IK
Roswell, GA EM74ua
[hidden email]
K3 #281, P3 #688
HRD v5.x/6.0 Test Team

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Jim Brown-10

Re: Surge Protection

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-4

On 1/14/2013 3:32 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
> We had a close electrical strike last summer. Nothing died as a
> result of being connected to the AC mains, but it somehow jumped onto
> the wired Ethernet home network. I lost 4 computers, a NAS file
> server, two switches, the router, and an access point. It tripped all
> the GFCI receptacles in the outbuilding (which does not have a surge
> protection but has separately metered power feed). Only one GFCI
> breaker/receptacle in the house was tripped, so something worked.

The computer networking destructive failures are VERY common, and are
usually CAUSED by the use of shunt mode (MOV) surge suppressors on
branch circuits. I've seen many documented occurrences of this in the
home offices of very good engineers working in pro audio, and the
problem also occurs with audio gear that is interconnected with other
gear powered from different outlets, or that are connected to other grounds.

In the pro audio world, we learned that the solution was to NEVER use
shunt protectors on branch circuits, but rather to use SERIES MODE surge
protection. The ONLY good place for MOVs on power systems is at the
service entrance. See pages 29-30 of

http://audiosystemsgroup.com/SurgeXPowerGround.pdf

Also see the discussion of Surge Suppression beginning on slide 81 of

http://audiosystemsgroup.com/InfoComm-PowerSystems2012.pdf

The heart of the failure mode is that MOVs are shoving the lightning
surge current onto the Green wire, and the resulting IZ drop across the
Green wire between the MOV and the breaker panel raises the
instantaneous voltage on the chassis of the "protected" equipment to a
very high value. When that equipment has a low voltage connection to
OTHER equipment that is grounded at a DIFFERENT point, surge-protected
or not, the DIFFERENCE in the instantaneous potentials on their
respective chassis appears between the electronics that connects them,
and destroys that electronics.

73, Jim K9YC

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html