Elecraft

The Big Three...

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donovanf

Re: The Big Three...

WRTC competitors must be highly competitive on both CW and SSB.

If you survey the most competitive contesters about their favorite
(i.e., most effective) SSB radio you probably won't find a single
contester that favors the K3. In fact, they would favor any of other
manufacturer over Elecraft.

CW is a different story where the K3 really shines as the favorite
radio among the most competitive contesters.

73
Frank
W3LPL

----- Original Message -----

From: "Wes" <[hidden email]>
To: "Michael Walker" <[hidden email]>
Cc: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2020 3:05:58 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] The Big Three...

Wasn't my subject line. But I'll see your four and raise it to five: Elecraft,
Flex, Icom, Kenwood and Yaesu.

Wes N7WS

On 3/29/2020 6:55 AM, Michael Walker wrote:

> I find you mention the big 3, but it is really the big 4.
>
> Mike va3mw
>
>
> On Sun, Mar 29, 2020 at 9:28 AM Wes <[hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>
> FWIW. I took a cursory look at the top 10 to see what they were using.
>
> You have to get to 5th place to find a pair of K3s. Sixth and 7th places use
> one K3 and something else for the second radio.
>
> So four out of 20 radios were K3s.
>
> Also of interest 6 out of 10 used WinTest with 4 using N1MM+.
>
> Wes N7WS
>
>
> On 3/29/2020 2:50 AM, Paul Gacek via Elecraft wrote:
> > If you follow the link you can see what radios the 50+ WRTC 2018
> participant teams used.
> >
> > Lots of K3.
> >
> > http://wrtc2018.de/competition/finalscores.php
> >
> > Paul
> > W6PNG/M0SNA
> > www.nomadic.blog
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
>

K9FD

Re: The Big Three...

In reply to this post by Elecraft mailing list

I agree Paul, and my comment was to play the stats in jest.

when the glass is half full you can see it from both sides,

I did that to stir the Elecraft kool aide crew.

Having contested many many years in my past life, I dont own
3 - K3 radios because they are losers, and nope I am not in the
class of any one who qualifies for WRTC. not even close,
and at 75 I am not progressing any longer, I am on the slipping
side of downhill.

73 Merv K9FD

> Merv
>
> Now we entering the arena of stats can tell you whatever you want them to tell you!
>
> In fairness only one of the top teams was a US team (I think) and 3 of the top 15 were US. Maybe radio choice for the Europeans is more to do with ICOM et al possibly having a more direct sales and support presence in EU versus Elecraft which is via local distributors and possibly requiring the gear to return to Cal for repair. Just a guess ....
>
> I think the WRTC leader role for the Boston/NE one had more US teams placing. I’m sure a story exists around home team advantage.
>
> I can only reiterate that anyone who participates in WRTC has to be pretty awesome and I wish I had 1% of their skills!!
>
> Stats are fun.
>
> Paul Gacek
>
>> On Mar 29, 2020, at 8:50 AM, K9FD <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> SO lets see, we are saying that 50 percent used Elecraft, and out of the top 3 no one did,
>> and most who used Elecraft were in the bottom.
>> So was it the radio or the operator?
>> If you look at it from one point of view, loosers used Elecraft..
>>
>> Merv K9FD, and I own 3 - k3 radios so not biased.
>>
>>
>>> Wasn't my subject line. But I'll see your four and raise it to five: Elecraft, Flex, Icom, Kenwood and Yaesu.
>>>
>>> Wes N7WS
>>>
>>>> On 3/29/2020 6:55 AM, Michael Walker wrote:
>>>> I find you mention the big 3, but it is really the big 4.
>>>>
>>>> Mike va3mw
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Mar 29, 2020 at 9:28 AM Wes <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>>>> FWIW. I took a cursory look at the top 10 to see what they were using.
>>>>
>>>> You have to get to 5th place to find a pair of K3s. Sixth and 7th places use
>>>> one K3 and something else for the second radio.
>>>>
>>>> So four out of 20 radios were K3s.
>>>>
>>>> Also of interest 6 out of 10 used WinTest with 4 using N1MM+.
>>>>
>>>> Wes N7WS
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On 3/29/2020 2:50 AM, Paul Gacek via Elecraft wrote:
>>>> > If you follow the link you can see what radios the 50+ WRTC 2018
>>>> participant teams used.
>>>> >
>>>> > Lots of K3.
>>>> >
>>>> > http://wrtc2018.de/competition/finalscores.php
>>>> >
>>>> > Paul
>>>> > W6PNG/M0SNA
>>>> > www.nomadic.blog
>>>>
>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
>>>>
>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>>> Message delivered to [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]

donovanf

Re: The Big Three...

This is by far not an unbiased survey. Teams that travel on airplanes to
get to WRTC will be strongly biased toward light weight radios such as
the K3. Operators who do not travel by a irplane will be biased towards
radios with much better SSB performance.

73
Frank
W3LPL

----- Original Message -----

From: "K9FD" <[hidden email]>
To: "Paul Gacek" <[hidden email]>
Cc: [hidden email]
Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2020 4:26:55 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] The Big Three...

I agree Paul, and my comment was to play the stats in jest.

when the glass is half full you can see it from both sides,

I did that to stir the Elecraft kool aide crew.

Having contested many many years in my past life, I dont own
3 - K3 radios because they are losers, and nope I am not in the
class of any one who qualifies for WRTC. not even close,
and at 75 I am not progressing any longer, I am on the slipping
side of downhill.

73 Merv K9FD

Sportdaddy

Re: The Big Three...

In reply to this post by K9FD

Merv,

I am curious. If you think K3’s are “losers” then why are you on the Elecraft Reflector message board in the first place?

73
Charles
W4PPP

On Mar 29, 2020, at 12:26 PM, K9FD <[hidden email]> wrote:

I agree Paul, and my comment was to play the stats in jest.

when the glass is half full you can see it from both sides,

I did that to stir the Elecraft kool aide crew.

Having contested many many years in my past life, I dont own
3 - K3 radios because they are losers, and nope I am not in the
class of any one who qualifies for WRTC. not even close,
and at 75 I am not progressing any longer, I am on the slipping
side of downhill.

73 Merv K9FD

Elecraft mailing list

Re: The Big Three...

In reply to this post by donovanf

Hi Frank,
I agree with what you said about CW rigs and lightweight rigs for traveling. The K3 on SSB sure has its faults. What say you on the top SSB rigs?

Also, since no Dayton and the idea of a contest that weekend is a good idea. But maybe we should consider some kind of virtual hospitality suite so we can have a beer or two plus chat.
N2TK, Tony

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of [hidden email]
Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2020 12:33 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] The Big Three...

This is by far not an unbiased survey. Teams that travel on airplanes to get to WRTC will be strongly biased toward light weight radios such as the K3. Operators who do not travel by a irplane will be biased towards radios with much better SSB performance.

73
Frank
W3LPL

----- Original Message -----

From: "K9FD" <[hidden email]>
To: "Paul Gacek" <[hidden email]>
Cc: [hidden email]
Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2020 4:26:55 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] The Big Three...

I agree Paul, and my comment was to play the stats in jest.

when the glass is half full you can see it from both sides,

I did that to stir the Elecraft kool aide crew.

Having contested many many years in my past life, I dont own
3 - K3 radios because they are losers, and nope I am not in the class of any one who qualifies for WRTC. not even close, and at 75 I am not progressing any longer, I am on the slipping side of downhill.

73 Merv K9FD

> Merv
>
> Now we entering the arena of stats can tell you whatever you want them to tell you!
>
> In fairness only one of the top teams was a US team (I think) and 3 of the top 15 were US. Maybe radio choice for the Europeans is more to do with ICOM et al possibly having a more direct sales and support presence in EU versus Elecraft which is via local distributors and possibly requiring the gear to return to Cal for repair. Just a guess ....
>
> I think the WRTC leader role for the Boston/NE one had more US teams placing. I’m sure a story exists around home team advantage.
>
> I can only reiterate that anyone who participates in WRTC has to be pretty awesome and I wish I had 1% of their skills!!
>
> Stats are fun.
>
> Paul Gacek
>
>> On Mar 29, 2020, at 8:50 AM, K9FD <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> SO lets see, we are saying that 50 percent used Elecraft, and out of
>> the top 3 no one did, and most who used Elecraft were in the bottom.
>> So was it the radio or the operator?
>> If you look at it from one point of view, loosers used Elecraft..
>>
>> Merv K9FD, and I own 3 - k3 radios so not biased.
>>
>>
>>> Wasn't my subject line. But I'll see your four and raise it to five: Elecraft, Flex, Icom, Kenwood and Yaesu.
>>>
>>> Wes N7WS
>>>
>>>> On 3/29/2020 6:55 AM, Michael Walker wrote:
>>>> I find you mention the big 3, but it is really the big 4.
>>>>
>>>> Mike va3mw
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Mar 29, 2020 at 9:28 AM Wes <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>>>> FWIW. I took a cursory look at the top 10 to see what they were using.
>>>>
>>>> You have to get to 5th place to find a pair of K3s. Sixth and 7th
>>>> places use one K3 and something else for the second radio.
>>>>
>>>> So four out of 20 radios were K3s.
>>>>
>>>> Also of interest 6 out of 10 used WinTest with 4 using N1MM+.
>>>>
>>>> Wes N7WS
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On 3/29/2020 2:50 AM, Paul Gacek via Elecraft wrote:
>>>> > If you follow the link you can see what radios the 50+ WRTC 2018
>>>> participant teams used.
>>>> >
>>>> > Lots of K3.
>>>> >
>>>> > http://wrtc2018.de/competition/finalscores.php
>>>> >
>>>> > Paul
>>>> > W6PNG/M0SNA
>>>> > www.nomadic.blog
>>>>
>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>> <mailto:[hidden email]>
>>>>
>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this
>>>> email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to
>>>> [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this
>>> email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to
>>> [hidden email]
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this
>> email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to
>> [hidden email]

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] ______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email]

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

KENT TRIMBLE

Re: The Big Three...

In reply to this post by Sportdaddy

He is not saying K3s are losers, he is saying statistics can be interpreted to indicate the very opposite of what is intended.

73,

Kent K9ZTV

> On Mar 29, 2020, at 11:39 AM, Charles Sells <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Merv,
>
> I am curious. If you think K3’s are “losers” then why are you on the Elecraft Reflector message board in the first place?
>
> 73
> Charles
> W4PPP
>
>
> On Mar 29, 2020, at 12:26 PM, K9FD <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I agree Paul, and my comment was to play the stats in jest.
>
> when the glass is half full you can see it from both sides,
>
> I did that to stir the Elecraft kool aide crew.
>
> Having contested many many years in my past life, I dont own
> 3 - K3 radios because they are losers, and nope I am not in the
> class of any one who qualifies for WRTC. not even close,
> and at 75 I am not progressing any longer, I am on the slipping
> side of downhill.
>
> 73 Merv K9FD
>> Merv
>>
>> Now we entering the arena of stats can tell you whatever you want them to tell you!
>>
>> In fairness only one of the top teams was a US team (I think) and 3 of the top 15 were US. Maybe radio choice for the Europeans is more to do with ICOM et al possibly having a more direct sales and support presence in EU versus Elecraft which is via local distributors and possibly requiring the gear to return to Cal for repair. Just a guess ....
>>
>> I think the WRTC leader role for the Boston/NE one had more US teams placing. I’m sure a story exists around home team advantage.
>>
>> I can only reiterate that anyone who participates in WRTC has to be pretty awesome and I wish I had 1% of their skills!!
>>
>> Stats are fun.
>>
>> Paul Gacek
>>
>>> On Mar 29, 2020, at 8:50 AM, K9FD <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> SO lets see, we are saying that 50 percent used Elecraft, and out of the top 3 no one did,
>>> and most who used Elecraft were in the bottom.
>>> So was it the radio or the operator?
>>> If you look at it from one point of view, loosers used Elecraft..
>>>
>>> Merv K9FD, and I own 3 - k3 radios so not biased.
>>>
>>>
>>>> Wasn't my subject line. But I'll see your four and raise it to five: Elecraft, Flex, Icom, Kenwood and Yaesu.
>>>>
>>>> Wes N7WS
>>>>
>>>>> On 3/29/2020 6:55 AM, Michael Walker wrote:
>>>>> I find you mention the big 3, but it is really the big 4.
>>>>>
>>>>> Mike va3mw
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 29, 2020 at 9:28 AM Wes <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:

donovanf

Re: The Big Three...

In reply to this post by Dick Dickinson

Hi Tony

Any of the top-of-the-line radios from Flex, Icom, Yaesu and Kenwood
have significantly better SSB performance than the K3.

Each of my six stations has two radios, usually a K3 and a "not K3,"
usually a Yaesu FTdx5000. During CW contests our "run" operators
usually favor the K3, during SSB contests our "run" operators NEVER
favor the K3.

73
Frank
W3LPL

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]>
Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2020 12:40 PM
To: '[hidden email]' <[hidden email]>; '[hidden email]' <[hidden email]>
Subject: RE: [Elecraft] The Big Three...

Hi Frank,
I agree with what you said about CW rigs and lightweight rigs for traveling. The K3 on SSB sure has its faults. What say you on the top SSB rigs?

Also, since no Dayton and the idea of a contest that weekend is a good idea. But maybe we should consider some kind of virtual hospitality suite so we can have a beer or two plus chat.
N2TK, Tony

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of [hidden email]
Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2020 12:33 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] The Big Three...

This is by far not an unbiased survey. Teams that travel on airplanes to get to WRTC will be strongly biased toward light weight radios such as the K3. Operators who do not travel by a irplane will be biased towards radios with much better SSB performance.

73
Frank
W3LPL

----- Original Message -----

From: "K9FD" <[hidden email]>
To: "Paul Gacek" <[hidden email]>
Cc: [hidden email]
Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2020 4:26:55 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] The Big Three...

I agree Paul, and my comment was to play the stats in jest.

when the glass is half full you can see it from both sides,

I did that to stir the Elecraft kool aide crew.

Having contested many many years in my past life, I dont own
3 - K3 radios because they are losers, and nope I am not in the class of any one who qualifies for WRTC. not even close, and at 75 I am not progressing any longer, I am on the slipping side of downhill.

73 Merv K9FD

> Merv
>
> Now we entering the arena of stats can tell you whatever you want them to tell you!
>
> In fairness only one of the top teams was a US team (I think) and 3 of the top 15 were US. Maybe radio choice for the Europeans is more to do with ICOM et al possibly having a more direct sales and support presence in EU versus Elecraft which is via local distributors and possibly requiring the gear to return to Cal for repair. Just a guess ....
>
> I think the WRTC leader role for the Boston/NE one had more US teams placing. I’m sure a story exists around home team advantage.
>
> I can only reiterate that anyone who participates in WRTC has to be pretty awesome and I wish I had 1% of their skills!!
>
> Stats are fun.
>
> Paul Gacek
>
>> On Mar 29, 2020, at 8:50 AM, K9FD <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> SO lets see, we are saying that 50 percent used Elecraft, and out of
>> the top 3 no one did, and most who used Elecraft were in the bottom.
>> So was it the radio or the operator?
>> If you look at it from one point of view, loosers used Elecraft..
>>
>> Merv K9FD, and I own 3 - k3 radios so not biased.
>>
>>
>>> Wasn't my subject line. But I'll see your four and raise it to five: Elecraft, Flex, Icom, Kenwood and Yaesu.
>>>
>>> Wes N7WS
>>>
>>>> On 3/29/2020 6:55 AM, Michael Walker wrote:
>>>> I find you mention the big 3, but it is really the big 4.
>>>>
>>>> Mike va3mw
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Mar 29, 2020 at 9:28 AM Wes <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>>>> FWIW. I took a cursory look at the top 10 to see what they were using.
>>>>
>>>> You have to get to 5th place to find a pair of K3s. Sixth and 7th
>>>> places use one K3 and something else for the second radio.
>>>>
>>>> So four out of 20 radios were K3s.
>>>>
>>>> Also of interest 6 out of 10 used WinTest with 4 using N1MM+.
>>>>
>>>> Wes N7WS
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On 3/29/2020 2:50 AM, Paul Gacek via Elecraft wrote:
>>>> > If you follow the link you can see what radios the 50+ WRTC 2018
>>>> participant teams used.
>>>> >
>>>> > Lots of K3.
>>>> >
>>>> > http://wrtc2018.de/competition/finalscores.php
>>>> >
>>>> > Paul
>>>> > W6PNG/M0SNA
>>>> > www.nomadic.blog
>>>>
>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>> <mailto:[hidden email]>
>>>>
>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this
>>>> email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to
>>>> [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this
>>> email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to
>>> [hidden email]
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this
>> email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to
>> [hidden email]

donovanf

Re: The Big Three...

In reply to this post by Sportdaddy

Charles,

The most competitive contesters -- the subject of this thread -- will always
gravitate to the highest performing radios, not to their favorite brand.

The K3 design is dated, all of the other top manufacturers have introduced
much higher performing SSB radios in recent years. The K3 was a
revolutionary design when it was introduced many years ago, but no more.

Hopefully the new K4 will change the game in Elecraft's favor once again,
especially for the most competitive SSB operators.

73
Frank
W3LPL

----- Original Message -----

From: "Charles Sells" <[hidden email]>
To: "K9FD" <[hidden email]>
Cc: [hidden email]
Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2020 4:39:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] The Big Three...

Merv,

I am curious. If you think K3’s are “losers” then why are you on the Elecraft Reflector message board in the first place?

73
Charles
W4PPP

On Mar 29, 2020, at 12:26 PM, K9FD <[hidden email]> wrote:

I agree Paul, and my comment was to play the stats in jest.

when the glass is half full you can see it from both sides,

I did that to stir the Elecraft kool aide crew.

Having contested many many years in my past life, I dont own
3 - K3 radios because they are losers, and nope I am not in the
class of any one who qualifies for WRTC. not even close,
and at 75 I am not progressing any longer, I am on the slipping
side of downhill.

73 Merv K9FD

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

K9FD

Re: The Big Three...

In reply to this post by Sportdaddy

Damn Charles your reading comprehension needs work

I never said at all anything about Elecraft and even said I own 3 - K3s
in my station

Get a life.

> Merv,
>
> I am curious. If you think K3’s are “losers” then why are you on the Elecraft Reflector message board in the first place?
>
> 73
> Charles
> W4PPP
>
>
> On Mar 29, 2020, at 12:26 PM, K9FD <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I agree Paul, and my comment was to play the stats in jest.
>
> when the glass is half full you can see it from both sides,
>
> I did that to stir the Elecraft kool aide crew.
>
> Having contested many many years in my past life, I dont own
> 3 - K3 radios because they are losers, and nope I am not in the
> class of any one who qualifies for WRTC. not even close,
> and at 75 I am not progressing any longer, I am on the slipping
> side of downhill.
>
> 73 Merv K9FD
>> Merv
>>
>> Now we entering the arena of stats can tell you whatever you want them to tell you!
>>
>> In fairness only one of the top teams was a US team (I think) and 3 of the top 15 were US. Maybe radio choice for the Europeans is more to do with ICOM et al possibly having a more direct sales and support presence in EU versus Elecraft which is via local distributors and possibly requiring the gear to return to Cal for repair. Just a guess ....
>>
>> I think the WRTC leader role for the Boston/NE one had more US teams placing. I’m sure a story exists around home team advantage.
>>
>> I can only reiterate that anyone who participates in WRTC has to be pretty awesome and I wish I had 1% of their skills!!
>>
>> Stats are fun.
>>
>> Paul Gacek
>>
>>> On Mar 29, 2020, at 8:50 AM, K9FD <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> SO lets see, we are saying that 50 percent used Elecraft, and out of the top 3 no one did,
>>> and most who used Elecraft were in the bottom.
>>> So was it the radio or the operator?
>>> If you look at it from one point of view, loosers used Elecraft..
>>>
>>> Merv K9FD, and I own 3 - k3 radios so not biased.
>>>
>>>
>>>> Wasn't my subject line. But I'll see your four and raise it to five: Elecraft, Flex, Icom, Kenwood and Yaesu.
>>>>
>>>> Wes N7WS
>>>>
>>>>> On 3/29/2020 6:55 AM, Michael Walker wrote:
>>>>> I find you mention the big 3, but it is really the big 4.
>>>>>
>>>>> Mike va3mw
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 29, 2020 at 9:28 AM Wes <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>>>>> FWIW. I took a cursory look at the top 10 to see what they were using.
>>>>>
>>>>> You have to get to 5th place to find a pair of K3s. Sixth and 7th places use
>>>>> one K3 and something else for the second radio.
>>>>>
>>>>> So four out of 20 radios were K3s.
>>>>>
>>>>> Also of interest 6 out of 10 used WinTest with 4 using N1MM+.
>>>>>
>>>>> Wes N7WS
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 3/29/2020 2:50 AM, Paul Gacek via Elecraft wrote:
>>>>> > If you follow the link you can see what radios the 50+ WRTC 2018
>>>>> participant teams used.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Lots of K3.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > http://wrtc2018.de/competition/finalscores.php
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Paul
>>>>> > W6PNG/M0SNA
>>>>> > www.nomadic.blog
>>>>>
>>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
>>>>>
>>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>>>> Message delivered to [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>>
>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

Carl Yaffey

Re: The Big Three...

In reply to this post by donovanf

Frank, I’d like to know why a K3 is not great on SSB. Is it the receiver audio? Transmitter EQ?

> On Mar 29, 2020, at 1:09 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
>
> Charles,
>
>
>
> The most competitive contesters -- the subject of this thread -- will always
> gravitate to the highest performing radios, not to their favorite brand.
>
>
> The K3 design is dated, all of the other top manufacturers have introduced
> much higher performing SSB radios in recent years. The K3 was a
> revolutionary design when it was introduced many years ago, but no more.
>
>
> Hopefully the new K4 will change the game in Elecraft's favor once again,
> especially for the most competitive SSB operators.
>
>
> 73
> Frank
> W3LPL
>

Carl Yaffey K8NU
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Post: mailto:[hidden email]

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Bob McGraw - K4TAX

Re: The Big Three...

There is a difference in the K3 receiver audio quality and the K3S
receiver audio quality. Perhaps that is the reason the K3 is not
preferred for SSB.

73

Bob, K4TAX

On 3/29/2020 12:35 PM, Carl Yaffey wrote:

> Frank, I’d like to know why a K3 is not great on SSB. Is it the receiver audio? Transmitter EQ?
>
>
>> On Mar 29, 2020, at 1:09 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
>>
>> Charles,
>>
>>
>>
>> The most competitive contesters -- the subject of this thread -- will always
>> gravitate to the highest performing radios, not to their favorite brand.
>>
>>
>> The K3 design is dated, all of the other top manufacturers have introduced
>> much higher performing SSB radios in recent years. The K3 was a
>> revolutionary design when it was introduced many years ago, but no more.
>>
>>
>> Hopefully the new K4 will change the game in Elecraft's favor once again,
>> especially for the most competitive SSB operators.
>>
>>
>> 73
>> Frank
>> W3LPL
>>
> Carl Yaffey K8NU
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

donovanf

Re: The Big Three...

In reply to this post by Carl Yaffey

Hi Carl,

A reminder about this thread, its not about the performance of the K3,
its about the preferences of highly competitive contesters who have
many excellent choices in the marketplace. Arguably more choices
than ever before.

Rather than getting into detailed discussions about specific performance
parameters, let me just suggest that you do what we do at W3LPL
during every SSB contest. Set up a K3 for SSB using the best
parameter settings you're aware of. Then set up any other top-of-the-line
radio next to it. The comparison in received SSB audio quality is stark.
When digging weak -- often distorted -- signals out of noise and extreme
adjacent channel interference, overall receiver audio is extremely important.

Do the same test with SSB transmitted audio quality by setting up a "blind
test." Use the best K3 parameter settings you're aware of. Then set up
any other top-of-the-line radio next to it. Ask several very competitive
SSB contesters to listen to transmissions from both radios. Don't tell
them advance which radio is which, just tell them Radio A and Radio B.
I guarantee you that no competitive contester will prefer K3 transmitted
SSB audio over any of the other top-of-the-line radios in a blind test.

It won't be long before we can have some run running the same tests with the K4.

73
Frank
W3LPL

----- Original Message -----

From: "Carl Yaffey" <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email], [hidden email]
Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2020 5:35:15 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] The Big Three...

Frank, I’d like to know why a K3 is not great on SSB. Is it the receiver audio? Transmitter EQ?

On Mar 29, 2020, at 1:09 PM, [hidden email] wrote:

Charles,

The most competitive contesters -- the subject of this thread -- will always
gravitate to the highest performing radios, not to their favorite brand.

The K3 design is dated, all of the other top manufacturers have introduced
much higher performing SSB radios in recent years. The K3 was a
revolutionary design when it was introduced many years ago, but no more.

Hopefully the new K4 will change the game in Elecraft's favor once again,
especially for the most competitive SSB operators.

73
Frank
W3LPL

Carl Yaffey K8NU

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Post: mailto:[hidden email]

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Bill Steffey NY9H

Re: The Big Three... +1

In reply to this post by donovanf

Once upon a time there was a radio design that would be the LAST RADIO
you ever needed... and its receiver design was way far ahead of then
current "top 3 " designs. No .... old Tenneessee Technical... it was
Ten Tec Orion It was the 'first" to revert back to old "not triple
conversion" designs. Another oldie was Squire Sanders ( check google
)...lools like similar design....

Ten Tec had IT..... if ONLY they would have bothered to spend the bucks
for a programmer to build a decent interface. I had one on order, and
drove down & visited the TenTec hamfest /factor tour and Orion Debut
,,, the set was NOT in the tent as it was inside being checked out, it
had "checked out" while being demonstrated.

I later cancelled my order , as was the employment of the receiver
designer.... The receiver was GREAT , too bad the rest of the radio
was not.

another leader that got lost.

bill/3

On 3/29/2020 1:09 PM, [hidden email] wrote:

> Charles,
>
>
>
> The most competitive contesters -- the subject of this thread -- will always
> gravitate to the highest performing radios, not to their favorite brand.
>
>
> The K3 design is dated, all of the other top manufacturers have introduced
> much higher performing SSB radios in recent years. The K3 was a
> revolutionary design when it was introduced many years ago, but no more.
>
>
> Hopefully the new K4 will change the game in Elecraft's favor once again,
> especially for the most competitive SSB operators.
>
>
> 73
> Frank
> W3LPL
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: "Charles Sells" <[hidden email]>
> To: "K9FD" <[hidden email]>
> Cc: [hidden email]
> Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2020 4:39:40 PM
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] The Big Three...
>
> Merv,
>
> I am curious. If you think K3’s are “losers” then why are you on the Elecraft Reflector message board in the first place?
>
> 73
> Charles
> W4PPP
>
>
> On Mar 29, 2020, at 12:26 PM, K9FD <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I agree Paul, and my comment was to play the stats in jest.
>
> when the glass is half full you can see it from both sides,
>
> I did that to stir the Elecraft kool aide crew.
>
> Having contested many many years in my past life, I dont own
> 3 - K3 radios because they are losers, and nope I am not in the
> class of any one who qualifies for WRTC. not even close,
> and at 75 I am not progressing any longer, I am on the slipping
> side of downhill.
>
> 73 Merv K9FD
>> Merv
>>
>> Now we entering the arena of stats can tell you whatever you want them to tell you!
>>
>> In fairness only one of the top teams was a US team (I think) and 3 of the top 15 were US. Maybe radio choice for the Europeans is more to do with ICOM et al possibly having a more direct sales and support presence in EU versus Elecraft which is via local distributors and possibly requiring the gear to return to Cal for repair. Just a guess ....
>>
>> I think the WRTC leader role for the Boston/NE one had more US teams placing. I’m sure a story exists around home team advantage.
>>
>> I can only reiterate that anyone who participates in WRTC has to be pretty awesome and I wish I had 1% of their skills!!
>>
>> Stats are fun.
>>
>> Paul Gacek
>>
>>> On Mar 29, 2020, at 8:50 AM, K9FD <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> SO lets see, we are saying that 50 percent used Elecraft, and out of the top 3 no one did,
>>> and most who used Elecraft were in the bottom.
>>> So was it the radio or the operator?
>>> If you look at it from one point of view, loosers used Elecraft..
>>>
>>> Merv K9FD, and I own 3 - k3 radios so not biased.
>>>
>>>
>>>> Wasn't my subject line. But I'll see your four and raise it to five: Elecraft, Flex, Icom, Kenwood and Yaesu.
>>>>
>>>> Wes N7WS
>>>>
>>>>> On 3/29/2020 6:55 AM, Michael Walker wrote:
>>>>> I find you mention the big 3, but it is really the big 4.
>>>>>
>>>>> Mike va3mw
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 29, 2020 at 9:28 AM Wes <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>>>>> FWIW. I took a cursory look at the top 10 to see what they were using.
>>>>>
>>>>> You have to get to 5th place to find a pair of K3s. Sixth and 7th places use
>>>>> one K3 and something else for the second radio.
>>>>>
>>>>> So four out of 20 radios were K3s.
>>>>>
>>>>> Also of interest 6 out of 10 used WinTest with 4 using N1MM+.
>>>>>
>>>>> Wes N7WS
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 3/29/2020 2:50 AM, Paul Gacek via Elecraft wrote:
>>>>>> If you follow the link you can see what radios the 50+ WRTC 2018
>>>>> participant teams used.
>>>>>> Lots of K3.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://wrtc2018.de/competition/finalscores.php
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Paul
>>>>>> W6PNG/M0SNA
>>>>>> www.nomadic.blog
>>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
>>>>>
>>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>>>> Message delivered to [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>>
>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

--
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Nr4c

Re: The Big Three...

In reply to this post by Bob McGraw - K4TAX

By any logic there is only one winner in any contest. Except in American events where there have to many sub events so Everyone gets a prize.

Sent from my iPhone
...nr4c. bill

> On Mar 29, 2020, at 12:03 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> But.......with that logic,.........there was ONE winner, the rest were losers.
>
> 73
>
> Bob, K4TAX
>
>> On 3/29/2020 10:47 AM, K9FD wrote:
>> SO lets see, we are saying that 50 percent used Elecraft, and out of the top 3 no one did,
>> and most who used Elecraft were in the bottom.
>> So was it the radio or the operator?
>> If you look at it from one point of view, loosers used Elecraft..
>>
>> Merv K9FD, and I own 3 - k3 radios so not biased.
>>
>>
>>> Wasn't my subject line. But I'll see your four and raise it to five: Elecraft, Flex, Icom, Kenwood and Yaesu.
>>>
>>> Wes N7WS
>>>
>>> On 3/29/2020 6:55 AM, Michael Walker wrote:
>>>> I find you mention the big 3, but it is really the big 4.
>>>>
>>>> Mike va3mw
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Mar 29, 2020 at 9:28 AM Wes <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> FWIW. I took a cursory look at the top 10 to see what they were using.
>>>>
>>>> You have to get to 5th place to find a pair of K3s. Sixth and 7th places use
>>>> one K3 and something else for the second radio.
>>>>
>>>> So four out of 20 radios were K3s.
>>>>
>>>> Also of interest 6 out of 10 used WinTest with 4 using N1MM+.
>>>>
>>>> Wes N7WS
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 3/29/2020 2:50 AM, Paul Gacek via Elecraft wrote:
>>>> > If you follow the link you can see what radios the 50+ WRTC 2018
>>>> participant teams used.
>>>> >
>>>> > Lots of K3.
>>>> >
>>>> > http://wrtc2018.de/competition/finalscores.php
>>>> >
>>>> > Paul
>>>> > W6PNG/M0SNA
>>>> > www.nomadic.blog
>>>>
>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
>>>>
>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>>> Message delivered to [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/

Elecraft mailing list

Re: The Big Three...

In reply to this post by donovanf

There is a catch in this, of course. Several of the top contesters are sponsored by some of the radio companies. The winner in the 2014 WRTC was sponsored by Icom as were many others.
The same was true in 2018. Of course, they get the best radios, delivered at the competition. Thus the radio choice tends to be biased by the fact that the contesters may not be paying for their radios, or having to hand-carry them to the competition.

As for the winners, we have seen many times that the contesters who are most familiar with propagation in the area where the competition is held will win. This was true in Massachusetts, Germany, and will undoubtedly be true in Italy. The top guys travel to the areas to get a feel for propagation, but having experience there for a long time makes a huge difference.
In WRTC, it isn’t so much the radio, but rather the experience in the zone that matter the most. Radios, logging software, antennas, etc are pretty much even. The ops themselves make the big difference.

73!
Jack, W6FB

> On Mar 29, 2020, at 11:06 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
>
> Hi Carl,
>
>
> A reminder about this thread, its not about the performance of the K3,
> its about the preferences of highly competitive contesters who have
> many excellent choices in the marketplace. Arguably more choices
> than ever before.
>
>
> Rather than getting into detailed discussions about specific performance
> parameters, let me just suggest that you do what we do at W3LPL
> during every SSB contest. Set up a K3 for SSB using the best
> parameter settings you're aware of. Then set up any other top-of-the-line
> radio next to it. The comparison in received SSB audio quality is stark.
> When digging weak -- often distorted -- signals out of noise and extreme
> adjacent channel interference, overall receiver audio is extremely important.
>
>
> Do the same test with SSB transmitted audio quality by setting up a "blind
> test." Use the best K3 parameter settings you're aware of. Then set up
> any other top-of-the-line radio next to it. Ask several very competitive
> SSB contesters to listen to transmissions from both radios. Don't tell
> them advance which radio is which, just tell them Radio A and Radio B.
> I guarantee you that no competitive contester will prefer K3 transmitted
> SSB audio over any of the other top-of-the-line radios in a blind test.
>
>
> It won't be long before we can have some run running the same tests with the K4.
>
>
> 73
> Frank
> W3LPL
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: "Carl Yaffey" <[hidden email]>
> To: [hidden email], [hidden email]
> Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2020 5:35:15 PM
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] The Big Three...
>
> Frank, I’d like to know why a K3 is not great on SSB. Is it the receiver audio? Transmitter EQ?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mar 29, 2020, at 1:09 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
>
>
> Charles,
>
>
>
> The most competitive contesters -- the subject of this thread -- will always
> gravitate to the highest performing radios, not to their favorite brand.
>
>
> The K3 design is dated, all of the other top manufacturers have introduced
> much higher performing SSB radios in recent years. The K3 was a
> revolutionary design when it was introduced many years ago, but no more.
>
>
> Hopefully the new K4 will change the game in Elecraft's favor once again,
> especially for the most competitive SSB operators.
>
>
> 73
> Frank
> W3LPL
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Carl Yaffey K8NU
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

Igor Sokolov-2

Re: The Big Three...

In reply to this post by donovanf

29.03.2020 23:06, [hidden email] пишет:
>
> It won't be long before we can have some run running the same tests with the K4.
>
>
> 73
> Frank
> W3LPL

Frank, please keep us posted regarding the outcome of this future testing.

73, Igor UA9CDC

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donovanf

Re: The Big Three...

Hello Igor,

I'm sure there will be many, many reports after the K4 starts shipping.

Its very difficult to remove bias from the test and evaluation process.
Inevitably the owner of a new radio, antenna or any other new capability
will be biased toward the new investment.

Its necessary to introduce blindness into the test procedure to get a valid result.

73
Frank
W3LPL

----- Original Message -----

From: "Igor Sokolov" <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2020 9:41:55 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] The Big Three...

29.03.2020 23:06, [hidden email] пишет:
>
> It won't be long before we can have some run running the same tests with the K4.
>
>
> 73
> Frank
> W3LPL

Frank, please keep us posted regarding the outcome of this future testing.

73, Igor UA9CDC

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Jim Brown-10

Re: The Big Three...

In reply to this post by donovanf

Hi Frank,

SSB is my un-favorite mode, and I don't have exposure to other
contemporary rigs, so I'd be interested to get your perspective of what
features/performance of the K3 are weak as opposed to the other radios.

73, Jim K9YC

On 3/29/2020 10:09 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
> The K3 design is dated, all of the other top manufacturers have introduced
> much higher performing SSB radios in recent years.

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Barry K3NDM

Re: The Big Three...

In reply to this post by Igor Sokolov-2

Something that I think is being missed. Didn't Elecraft address all of
this in the K3s upgrade and design? I do contest using SSB, and haven't
seen a problem with my K3s.

73,
Barry
K3NDM

------ Original Message ------
From: "Igor Sokolov" <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: 3/29/2020 5:41:55 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] The Big Three...

>
>29.03.2020 23:06, [hidden email] пишет:
>>
>>It won't be long before we can have some run running the same tests with the K4.
>>
>>
>>73
>>Frank
>>W3LPL
>
>Frank, please keep us posted regarding the outcome of this future testing.
>
>73, Igor UA9CDC
>
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donovanf

Re: The Big Three...

In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10

Hi Jim,

You would have to seriously compete in an SSB contest with some of the
more modern radios in very crowded bands to fully appreciate how much
better the more modern technologies are for both transmit and receive signal
quality. The latest Flex radios are almost shockingly good, but all of the
top-shelf modern radios are significantly better performers than the
12 year old K3 or even the K3S.

We're discussing the most demanding situations affecting SSB transceiver
performance: weak -- often distorted -- SSB signals surrounded by
much stronger adjacent channel QRM. For much of the time on
20 and especially 40 meters the adjacent much stronger signals overlap
well into the receiver bandwidth. Typical spacing between SSB signals
is only 1.5 kHz, if you're lucky its 2.0 kHz and only rarely 2.5 kHz or more.
This situation is rather unimportant for the casual contester, but its a
game changer at the upper levels of serious SSB contest competition.

I have not made technical measurements of K3 SSB transmitter and
receiver performance nor do I have the capability to do so. I suspect the
more modern designs have improved the dynamic response of their entire
receiver and transmitter chain in ways that can't be captured by simple
static performance measurements such as frequency response, dynamic range
and IMD.

73
Frank
W3LPL

----- Original Message -----

From: "Jim Brown" <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Monday, March 30, 2020 12:32:52 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] The Big Three...

Hi Frank,

SSB is my un-favorite mode, and I don't have exposure to other
contemporary rigs, so I'd be interested to get your perspective of what
features/performance of the K3 are weak as opposed to the other radios.

73, Jim K9YC

On 3/29/2020 10:09 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
> The K3 design is dated, all of the other top manufacturers have introduced
> much higher performing SSB radios in recent years.

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______________________________________________________________
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Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
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Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
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