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The K3 and the 630 meter band

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Edward R Cole

The K3 and the 630 meter band

Roger,

congrats on VK-land getting the new ham band; we are still waiting on
action from the FCC in the USA. Of course there are many of us with
experimental licenses operating these frequencies. I am a member of
the ARRL 600 meter Experimental Group:
http://www.500kc.com/

I am cross-posting this to our 600m reflector. You might be
interested in signing up for that. It is a moderated list so only
those with active interest in 600m should apply:
http://www.500kc.com/Maillists.htm

Unfortunately, for use with the K3 it will only work down to
490-KHz. My understanding it is a hardware limitation so no firmware
change will change this. I use my K3 on 495-510 KHz using the TEST
mode to drive with 0.1mw my converted NDB transmitter to 100w into a
43x122 foot base-loaded inverted-L (ERP=4.15w).
http://www.kl7uw.com/600m.htm

It is also unfortunate that the KX3 will not be able to work down at
472-478 KHz. There will be a lot of equipment ventures once more
countries allow ham use down there.

For those of us with K3 or KX3 it will require a transverter. A
logical conversion is from 80m to 600m. Since the K3 can transmit in
TEST on any freq. up to 30-MHz, using an LO of 10-MHz is a natural as
one can use one of the super accurate OCXO freq. reference
oscillators ($25 on e-bay) as an LO to a simple mixer and amps. One
would tune 10.472-10.478 MHz in TEST mode:
http://www.kl7uw.com/600m_XVTR.jpg

Building a simple 10mw transverter is not too difficult. Adding
amplifiers to 25w would be a good goal in my opinion. RF output
limitations of either 1w or 5w EIRP is likely with the new band. For
most realistic antennas this implies efficiencies of about 1%. A
dipole is only 1860 feet long and a 1/4 wave vertical 930-feet high!

73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45
------------------------
Subject: [Elecraft] The K3 and the 630 meter band
Message-ID: <5CE61C885690499C98CCE5F5DB077720@ROGERN>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

In Australia we have a new band. The 630 meter band. It covers 472 to 478 KHz.
They tell me there is a lot of interesting activity going on there.
I tried to tune there with my K3 but alas it would only go down to 490 KHz.
With RIT at -10 KHz and set to LSB, I could just start to hear
signals at the top end of the band.
How annoying! So close! but so far!
Please Elecraft can you write us some software to extend coverage
down to 472 KHz.
Being able to transmit there would be even better!

73
Roger, VK4YB

73, Ed - KL7UW
http://www.kl7uw.com
[hidden email]
"Kits made by KL7UW"

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Michael Mussler

Use of K3 on 600m (and below)

While the K3 is not designed for direct operation at 600m and below (filtering is designed to protect 160m operations from BC band interference) the K3 features that support use of transverters make this rig one of the best for use as an IF. There are separate ports and electronic switching for the transmit and receive converters and the display can be programmed to read out the operating frequency including offsets for the converter local oscillators. An external frequency reference option is also available. It is so convenient to use with a transverter that I often forget the external gear between the K3 and the 600m antenna.
-Mike Mussler
AI8Z
WD2XSH/12

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Jim AB3CV

Re: Use of K3 on 600m (and below)

It would really be nice if K3 would support 80m as a transverter frequency.
If it did it would enable 3.5-4.0Mhz to reflect the full 500Khz from a low
band transverter.

jim ab3cv

On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 7:05 PM, Michael Mussler <[hidden email]>wrote:

> While the K3 is not designed for direct operation at 600m and below
> (filtering is designed to protect 160m operations from BC band
> interference) the K3 features that support use of transverters make this
> rig one of the best for use as an IF. There are separate ports and
> electronic switching for the transmit and receive converters and the
> display can be programmed to read out the operating frequency including
> offsets for the converter local oscillators. An external frequency
> reference option is also available. It is so convenient to use with a
> transverter that I often forget the external gear between the K3 and the
> 600m antenna.
> -Mike Mussler
> AI8Z
> WD2XSH/12
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>
>

Jim AB3CV

Re: Use of K3 on 600m (and below)

of course I meant upconverter not transverter...

jim ab3cv

On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 7:58 PM, Jim Miller <[hidden email]> wrote:

> It would really be nice if K3 would support 80m as a transverter
> frequency. If it did it would enable 3.5-4.0Mhz to reflect the full 500Khz
> from a low band transverter.
>
> jim ab3cv
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 7:05 PM, Michael Mussler <[hidden email]>wrote:
>
>> While the K3 is not designed for direct operation at 600m and below
>> (filtering is designed to protect 160m operations from BC band
>> interference) the K3 features that support use of transverters make this
>> rig one of the best for use as an IF. There are separate ports and
>> electronic switching for the transmit and receive converters and the
>> display can be programmed to read out the operating frequency including
>> offsets for the converter local oscillators. An external frequency
>> reference option is also available. It is so convenient to use with a
>> transverter that I often forget the external gear between the K3 and the
>> 600m antenna.
>> -Mike Mussler
>> AI8Z
>> WD2XSH/12
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
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>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
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>>
>>
>

Bruce Beford-2

Re: Use of K3 on 600m (and below)

In reply to this post by Michael Mussler

I still feel transverter is appropriate (transceiver converter)
Bruce, N1RX

> of course I meant upconverter not transverter...
> jim ab3cv

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wayne burdick

Re: Use of K3 on 600m (and below)

Administrator

In reply to this post by Jim AB3CV

Why not use 40 m (7.0-7.5 MHz) as the I.F.? This is already available (see XVn IF menu entry), and there's no reason why it can't work as an I.F. for a low-band transverter.

73,
Wayne
N6KR

On Sep 10, 2013, at 4:58 PM, Jim Miller <[hidden email]> wrote:

> It would really be nice if K3 would support 80m as a transverter frequency.
> If it did it would enable 3.5-4.0Mhz to reflect the full 500Khz from a low
> band transverter.
>
> jim ab3cv
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 7:05 PM, Michael Mussler <[hidden email]>wrote:
>
>> While the K3 is not designed for direct operation at 600m and below
>> (filtering is designed to protect 160m operations from BC band
>> interference) the K3 features that support use of transverters make this
>> rig one of the best for use as an IF. There are separate ports and
>> electronic switching for the transmit and receive converters and the
>> display can be programmed to read out the operating frequency including
>> offsets for the converter local oscillators. An external frequency
>> reference option is also available. It is so convenient to use with a
>> transverter that I often forget the external gear between the K3 and the
>> 600m antenna.
>> -Mike Mussler
>> AI8Z
>> WD2XSH/12
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
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Edward R Cole

Re: [600MRG] Use of K3 on 600m (and below)

In reply to this post by Jim AB3CV

Jim,

Yes, the lowest transverter IF is 7-MHz. Of course you can operate
the K3 in low power transceive on any frequency from 490-KHz to
32-MHz if in the TEST mode. Only issue is VFO readout is the IF and
not the operating frequency of a converter or transverter.

But say you use 3.472-3.478 MHz as your IF? Your LO would be 3.000
MHz. This could even be a DDS oscillator locked to a 10-MHz
reference. A simple mixer and LO without filters would work 0-500 KHz (maybe).

The wider issue if using other ham transceivers that only operate in
the ham bands.

My K3 has the EXREF board for referencing to an external 10-MHz
source. This enables 0.1 ppm accuracy. A 10-MHz LO is 1-Hz stabile.

73, Ed - KL7UW

At 03:58 PM 9/10/2013, Jim Miller wrote:
>It would really be nice if K3 would support 80m as a transverter frequency.
>If it did it would enable 3.5-4.0Mhz to reflect the full 500Khz from a low
>band transverter.
>
>jim ab3cv

73, Ed - KL7UW
http://www.kl7uw.com
[hidden email]
"Kits made by KL7UW"

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K5DNL

Re: [600MRG] Use of K3 on 600m (and below)

Hello All,

I also would like to use 3.5 to 4.0 mhz for the IF frequency
.
I have completed the homebrew 630m transverter to work
With the K3 . I am using 7 mhz IF , It seem to be stable ,
However
It’s easier for me to build a more stable oscillator at 3.5
mhz.
Also there is a broadcast station on 7.475 mhz .
I can see the carrier on 475 khz , I have tried a few things
To filter this carrier out, So far no luck , What a pain.
Yes the 80 meter IF would be nice.
73 Ken K5DNL
=================================================

________________________________
From: Edward R Cole <[hidden email]>
To: Jim Miller <[hidden email]>
Cc: Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]>; "[hidden email] group" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2013 2:37 AM
Subject: Re: [600MRG] [Elecraft] Use of K3 on 600m (and below)

Jim,

Yes, the lowest transverter IF is 7-MHz. Of course you can operate
the K3 in low power transceive on any frequency from 490-KHz to
32-MHz if in the TEST mode. Only issue is VFO readout is the IF and
not the operating frequency of a converter or transverter.

But say you use 3.472-3.478 MHz as your IF? Your LO would be 3.000
MHz. This could even be a DDS oscillator locked to a 10-MHz
reference. A simple mixer and LO without filters would work 0-500 KHz (maybe).

The wider issue if using other ham transceivers that only operate in
the ham bands.

My K3 has the EXREF board for referencing to an external 10-MHz
source. This enables 0.1 ppm accuracy. A 10-MHz LO is 1-Hz stabile.

73, Ed - KL7UW

At 03:58 PM 9/10/2013, Jim Miller wrote:
>It would really be nice if K3 would support 80m as a transverter frequency.
>If it did it would enable 3.5-4.0Mhz to reflect the full 500Khz from a low
>band transverter.
>
>jim ab3cv

73, Ed - KL7UW
http://www.kl7uw.com
[hidden email]
"Kits made by KL7UW"

_______________________________________________
600MRG mailing list
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http://w7ekb.com/mailman/listinfo/600mrg_w7ekb.com
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Jim AB3CV

Re: Use of K3 on 600m (and below)

In reply to this post by wayne burdick

Hi Wayne

I was under the impression that operation above 7.3 would be degraded
without the general coverage option. If I'm wrong then 40M would be all
that's required.

Thanks!

jim ab3cv

On Wed, Sep 11, 2013 at 12:32 AM, Wayne Burdick <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Why not use 40 m (7.0-7.5 MHz) as the I.F.? This is already available (see
> XVn IF menu entry), and there's no reason why it can't work as an I.F. for
> a low-band transverter.
>
> 73,
> Wayne
> N6KR
>
>
> On Sep 10, 2013, at 4:58 PM, Jim Miller <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > It would really be nice if K3 would support 80m as a transverter
> frequency.
> > If it did it would enable 3.5-4.0Mhz to reflect the full 500Khz from a
> low
> > band transverter.
> >
> > jim ab3cv
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 7:05 PM, Michael Mussler <[hidden email]
> >wrote:
> >
> >> While the K3 is not designed for direct operation at 600m and below
> >> (filtering is designed to protect 160m operations from BC band
> >> interference) the K3 features that support use of transverters make this
> >> rig one of the best for use as an IF. There are separate ports and
> >> electronic switching for the transmit and receive converters and the
> >> display can be programmed to read out the operating frequency including
> >> offsets for the converter local oscillators. An external frequency
> >> reference option is also available. It is so convenient to use with a
> >> transverter that I often forget the external gear between the K3 and the
> >> 600m antenna.
> >> -Mike Mussler
> >> AI8Z
> >> WD2XSH/12
> >>
> >>
> >> ______________________________________________________________
> >> Elecraft mailing list
> >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> >> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >>
> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> >>
> >>
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
>
>

K5DNL

Re: Use of K3 on 600m (and below)

Jim,
Yes you are right , The output from the K3 is degraded above 7.3
if you don't have the general coverage option, That's another reason
to have 3.5 to 4.0 mhz IF frequency .
What it amounts to is not enough drive.

73 Ken K5DNL
================================================

________________________________
From: Jim Miller <[hidden email]>
To: Wayne Burdick <[hidden email]>
Cc: Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2013 7:49 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Use of K3 on 600m (and below)

Hi Wayne

I was under the impression that operation above 7.3 would be degraded
without the general coverage option. If I'm wrong then 40M would be all
that's required.

Thanks!

jim ab3cv

On Wed, Sep 11, 2013 at 12:32 AM, Wayne Burdick <[hidden email]> wrote:

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k6dgw

Re: [600MRG] Use of K3 on 600m (and below)

In reply to this post by Edward R Cole

Help me out here ... if I go into TEST mode and send something, my K3 is
really making RF, albeit not much?

As I accumulate birthdays, I find that, while my copy skill stays fairly
constant, my "fine motor skills" are declining, and I don't get enough
sending practice on the air. I've been getting the exercise in TEST
mode, sometimes with the KPA500 in OPERATE and an antenna connected on
the belief that the manual was correct and I wasn't making any RF. So
far, I don't think I've sent any state secrets, credit card numbers, or
other private information ... maybe I should put the dummy load on?

73,

Fred K6DGW
- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the 2013 Cal QSO Party 5-6 Oct 2013
- www.cqp.org

On 9/11/2013 12:37 AM, Edward R Cole wrote:

> Yes, the lowest transverter IF is 7-MHz. Of course you can operate the
> K3 in low power transceive on any frequency from 490-KHz to 32-MHz if in
> the TEST mode.

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Don Wilhelm-4

Re: [600MRG] Use of K3 on 600m (and below)

Fred,

I believe Ed is referring to the KXV3 TEST mode. See page 50 of the
manual, the first bullet in the Milliwat TX Gain Calibration.

That is different than TX TEST.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 9/11/2013 12:23 PM, Fred Jensen wrote:

> Help me out here ... if I go into TEST mode and send something, my K3
> is really making RF, albeit not much?
>
> As I accumulate birthdays, I find that, while my copy skill stays
> fairly constant, my "fine motor skills" are declining, and I don't get
> enough sending practice on the air. I've been getting the exercise in
> TEST mode, sometimes with the KPA500 in OPERATE and an antenna
> connected on the belief that the manual was correct and I wasn't
> making any RF. So far, I don't think I've sent any state secrets,
> credit card numbers, or other private information ... maybe I should
> put the dummy load on?
>

Charlie T, K3ICH

Re: [600MRG] Use of K3 on 600m (and below)

In reply to this post by K5DNL

I use my K3 on 4.0 to 4.5 MHz with an old Palomar VLF converter. I just
ignore the 4 and read the frequency directly in kHz.

Works great and for such a simple circuit, there's not a lot of
bleed-through.

73, Charlie k3ICH

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Roberson" <[hidden email]>
To: "Edward R Cole" <[hidden email]>; "Jim Miller" <[hidden email]>
Cc: "Elecraft Reflector" <[hidden email]>; "[hidden email]
group" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2013 8:47 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [600MRG] Use of K3 on 600m (and below)

> Hello All,
>
>
> I also would like to use 3.5 to 4.0 mhz for the IF frequency
> .
> I have completed the homebrew 630m transverter to work
> With the K3 . I am using 7 mhz IF , It seem to be stable ,
> However
> It’s easier for me to build a more stable oscillator at 3.5
> mhz.
> Also there is a broadcast station on 7.475 mhz .
> I can see the carrier on 475 khz , I have tried a few things
> To filter this carrier out, So far no luck , What a pain.
> Yes the 80 meter IF would be nice.
> 73 Ken K5DNL
> =================================================
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Edward R Cole <[hidden email]>
> To: Jim Miller <[hidden email]>
> Cc: Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]>; "[hidden email]
> group" <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2013 2:37 AM
> Subject: Re: [600MRG] [Elecraft] Use of K3 on 600m (and below)
>
>
> Jim,
>
> Yes, the lowest transverter IF is 7-MHz. Of course you can operate
> the K3 in low power transceive on any frequency from 490-KHz to
> 32-MHz if in the TEST mode. Only issue is VFO readout is the IF and
> not the operating frequency of a converter or transverter.
>
> But say you use 3.472-3.478 MHz as your IF? Your LO would be 3.000
> MHz. This could even be a DDS oscillator locked to a 10-MHz
> reference. A simple mixer and LO without filters would work 0-500 KHz
> (maybe).
>
> The wider issue if using other ham transceivers that only operate in
> the ham bands.
>
> My K3 has the EXREF board for referencing to an external 10-MHz
> source. This enables 0.1 ppm accuracy. A 10-MHz LO is 1-Hz stabile.
>
> 73, Ed - KL7UW
>
> At 03:58 PM 9/10/2013, Jim Miller wrote:
>>It would really be nice if K3 would support 80m as a transverter
>>frequency.
>>If it did it would enable 3.5-4.0Mhz to reflect the full 500Khz from a low
>>band transverter.
>>
>>jim ab3cv
>
> 73, Ed - KL7UW
> http://www.kl7uw.com
> [hidden email]
> "Kits made by KL7UW"
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> 600MRG mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://w7ekb.com/mailman/listinfo/600mrg_w7ekb.com
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

K5DNL

Re: [600MRG] Use of K3 on 600m (and below)

Charlie,

Yes they work great , Have you tried to copy
the WSPR stations on 474.2 KHZ ?

73 Ken K5DNL

________________________________
From: "Charlie T, K3ICH" <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2013 3:07 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [600MRG] Use of K3 on 600m (and below)

I use my K3 on 4.0 to 4.5 MHz with an old Palomar VLF converter. I just
ignore the 4 and read the frequency directly in kHz.

Works great and for such a simple circuit, there's not a lot of
bleed-through.

73, Charlie k3ICH

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Roberson" <[hidden email]>
To: "Edward R Cole" <[hidden email]>; "Jim Miller" <[hidden email]>
Cc: "Elecraft Reflector" <[hidden email]>; "[hidden email]
group" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2013 8:47 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [600MRG] Use of K3 on 600m (and below)

Edward R Cole

Re: [600MRG] Use of K3 on 600m (and below)

In reply to this post by Edward R Cole

Correct.

Refer to the K3 manual, page 56, KXV3: "If KXV3 is set to TEST, the
K3 will use low power (0.1 to1.50 mw) on all bands, including hte HF
and transverter bands. RF input/output is via teh XVTR IN/OUT jacks
in this case. To access the TEST setting, KXV3 must first be set to
NOR, then K3 turned off/on.

The K3 will transmit on any frequency from 490-KHz to 30-MHz in the
test mode if you have the General Coverage filter installed.

This procedure is how I used the K3 to transmit on 495-510 KHz under
the experimental license WD2XSH/45. I found I only need 0.1 mw to
drive my NDB transmitter. I insert the K3 drive in place of the
standard xtal oscillator. Details of this is on my 600m webpage.

73, Ed
------------------
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [600MRG] Use of K3 on 600m (and below)
Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Fred,

I believe Ed is referring to the KXV3 TEST mode. See page 50 of the
manual, the first bullet in the Milliwat TX Gain Calibration.

That is different than TX TEST.

73,
Don W3FPR

73, Ed - KL7UW
http://www.kl7uw.com
[hidden email]
"Kits made by KL7UW"

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Dave-3

Re: [600MRG] Use of K3 on 600m (and below)

In reply to this post by Edward R Cole

I am still waiting for 10MHz to be available as an IF band on the K3 to
enable a 10MHz rubidium or GpS standard to be used as a local oscillator

While I wait, I use my anan-10 sdr which produces ~5W on the band and has
had qsos

Dave

Ww2r, g4fre

-----Original Message-----
From: 600MRG [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Edward R Cole
Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2013 2:37 AM
To: Jim Miller
Cc: Elecraft Reflector; [hidden email] group
Subject: Re: [600MRG] [Elecraft] Use of K3 on 600m (and below)

Jim,

Yes, the lowest transverter IF is 7-MHz. Of course you can operate
the K3 in low power transceive on any frequency from 490-KHz to
32-MHz if in the TEST mode. Only issue is VFO readout is the IF and
not the operating frequency of a converter or transverter.

But say you use 3.472-3.478 MHz as your IF? Your LO would be 3.000
MHz. This could even be a DDS oscillator locked to a 10-MHz
reference. A simple mixer and LO without filters would work 0-500 KHz
(maybe).

The wider issue if using other ham transceivers that only operate in
the ham bands.

My K3 has the EXREF board for referencing to an external 10-MHz
source. This enables 0.1 ppm accuracy. A 10-MHz LO is 1-Hz stabile.

73, Ed - KL7UW

At 03:58 PM 9/10/2013, Jim Miller wrote:
>It would really be nice if K3 would support 80m as a transverter frequency.
>If it did it would enable 3.5-4.0Mhz to reflect the full 500Khz from a low
>band transverter.
>
>jim ab3cv

73, Ed - KL7UW
http://www.kl7uw.com
[hidden email]
"Kits made by KL7UW"

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