Elecraft › [K3]

The no-serial port conundrum

Classic

List

Threaded

11 messages Options

Garry Shapiro

The no-serial port conundrum

Tom, NW6P has a new K3 and a "modern" laptop with no serial port, so
using the K3 Utility is problematic. I am sure he can find the hardware
at Radio Shack or Fry's to effect the physical layer connection from USB
to DB9, but how does one tell the computer, i.e. define a virtual serial
port? And is there anything we need to know about the physical connection?

Garry, NI6T

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Brett Howard

Re: The no-serial port conundrum

Get a USB to serial interface with a FTDI chipset. There are a lot of
these devices out there however the FTDI chipset will just simply cause
less headaches than the others.

I did a quick search for USB to Serial FTDI on google and clicked the
shopping link. One of the better prices for what you should use can be
found here:
http://www.surplusgizmos.com/FTDI-Model-UC232R10-USB-to-Serial-Adapter_p_194.html

I don't know how good of a retailer that company is but any USB to
serial converter with an FTDI chipset will work very well.

You'll simply plug this device in and you'll see a real com port show up
on your computer. You can then use that com port just like you would
any other.

You're going to still need a straight through 9pin serial cable to use
in conjunction with this pigtail.

~Brett (KC7OTG)

On Sun, 2010-03-21 at 00:09 -0700, Garry Shapiro wrote:

> Tom, NW6P has a new K3 and a "modern" laptop with no serial port, so
> using the K3 Utility is problematic. I am sure he can find the hardware
> at Radio Shack or Fry's to effect the physical layer connection from USB
> to DB9, but how does one tell the computer, i.e. define a virtual serial
> port? And is there anything we need to know about the physical connection?
>
> Garry, NI6T
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: The no-serial port conundrum

In reply to this post by Garry Shapiro

Garry,

Windows assigns the "Com number" to most USB converters when they
are initially installed. Windows will not reassign a com number
once it has been used so if you move a USB converter from one USB
port to another it will often get a new COM number (particularly
in vista Windows 7).

For quite a while FTDI based serial converters have been the most
reliable for amateur purposes due to driver timing issues with VB6
and other compilers of that era. Now Prolific have supposedly fixed
their driver issues but I'm skeptical until we see more reports.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Garry Shapiro
> Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 3:10 AM
> To: [hidden email]; NCCC Main Reflector
> Subject: [Elecraft] The no-serial port conundrum
>
>
> Tom, NW6P has a new K3 and a "modern" laptop with no serial port, so
> using the K3 Utility is problematic. I am sure he can find
> the hardware
> at Radio Shack or Fry's to effect the physical layer
> connection from USB
> to DB9, but how does one tell the computer, i.e. define a
> virtual serial
> port? And is there anything we need to know about the
> physical connection?
>
> Garry, NI6T
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Matt Zilmer

Re: The no-serial port conundrum

If you need to reconfigure the port numbers because of app software
limitations (for example, single digit COMx in some apps), you can use
Device Manager to push the port numbers around. Sometimes folks set
up port numbers just for convenience too.

Start => Settings => Control Panel => Admin Tools => Computer
Management => Device Manager will display the device in the right-hand
pane (for XP as example). If you expand the Ports line item, it will
show all the COM and printer ports already enumerated. You can then
manipulate these however you wish. When you use Device Manager, make
sure everything is plugged in to the USB ports the way you want it.
The applet will not configure or show devices not installed.

Once you have it the way you want it, DO follow Joe's advice. The
port numbers will stay the same if they're enumerated as you
originally set them up. Plug your USB - serial into the same physical
USB port each time and the COM port will be set up as expected.

I know the above works for WinXP, but newer o/s's may be somewhat
different.

73,
matt W6NIA

On Sun, 21 Mar 2010 11:13:20 -0400, you wrote:

>
>Garry,
>
>Windows assigns the "Com number" to most USB converters when they
>are initially installed. Windows will not reassign a com number
>once it has been used so if you move a USB converter from one USB
>port to another it will often get a new COM number (particularly
>in vista Windows 7).
>
>For quite a while FTDI based serial converters have been the most
>reliable for amateur purposes due to driver timing issues with VB6
>and other compilers of that era. Now Prolific have supposedly fixed
>their driver issues but I'm skeptical until we see more reports.
>
>73,
>
> ... Joe, W4TV
>
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [hidden email]
>> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Garry Shapiro
>> Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 3:10 AM
>> To: [hidden email]; NCCC Main Reflector
>> Subject: [Elecraft] The no-serial port conundrum
>>
>>
>> Tom, NW6P has a new K3 and a "modern" laptop with no serial port, so
>> using the K3 Utility is problematic. I am sure he can find
>> the hardware
>> at Radio Shack or Fry's to effect the physical layer
>> connection from USB
>> to DB9, but how does one tell the computer, i.e. define a
>> virtual serial
>> port? And is there anything we need to know about the
>> physical connection?
>>
>> Garry, NI6T
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
>______________________________________________________________
>Elecraft mailing list
>Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
>This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

David Christ

Re: The no-serial port conundrum

In reply to this post by Garry Shapiro

If your laptop has an express card/34 slot you can buy a serial card
for under $30. Gets rid of the whole USB issue. I have not had a
chance to test it yet but should have mine in hand soon. Similar
solutions are available for PCMCIA.

http://www.ramelectronics.net/computer-parts/computer-i-o-cards/serial-port-cards/rs-232-serial-port-express-card-io-ecs120/prodIOECS120.html

Unfortunately the run of the mill lower end of the market laptops are
eliminating everything except USB, video and headphone (and maybe
Ethernet). I suspect their reasoning (probably accurate) is that
with built in Bluetooth and Wireless hardly anyone will want to
connect non USB devices.

David K0LUM

At 12:09 AM -0700 3/21/10, Garry Shapiro wrote:

Jim Dunstan

Re: The no-serial port conundrum

In reply to this post by Garry Shapiro

At 12:09 AM 3/21/2010 -0700, you wrote:

You will have to purchase a USB to RS232 adapter ... which are commonly
available. It will come with a CD with drivers etc... However, if you
have an operating system XP and up you will not need to install a driver
... As soon as you plug it in there is a 99% chance it will automatically
detect the device, identify it correctly, and install it. It will then
simply say your adapter is ready for use. The drivers are generally
supplied for older OS's such as Win98.

However, you will be using some kind of software that will be using the
RS232 port and it will have to be told which Comport to use (the one your
computer assigned to the adapter). To determine the Comport # you will go
to your computer 'Device Manager' where you will see listed the 'Ports
(Com)'. Click on it and you will see the name of your adapter and the
Comport # assigned to it. For example it might say 'Prolific Com4' ...
which is the name of the adapter and the RS232 port # assigned to it. Note
the number and use it when setting up you digital or control software that
will be using the comport. (Prolific just happens to be a particular brand
of adapter).

Jim,

VE3CI

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Garry Shapiro

Re: The no-serial port conundrum

In reply to this post by Garry Shapiro

Thank you to all who responded on the above topic. The info on USB to
serial conversion is quite valuable and will be retained.

As for the specific installation that triggered the inquiry, my
presumption that NW6P's Dell laptop had no serial ports was
incorrect--it has a real COM port. I only had to enable it in Device
Manager and connect a DB9 extender cable to download the latest firmware.

Garry, NI6T
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Jim Brown-10

Re: The no-serial port conundrum

On Sun, 21 Mar 2010 00:09:43 -0700, Garry Shapiro wrote:

>Tom, NW6P has a new K3 and a "modern" laptop with no serial port,

About seven years ago, I bought a Quatech DSP-100 PC-card for my IBM T41
Thinkpad that came without a serial port. It provides two real hardware
serial ports from 16750 UARTS. It's been through a lot of Field Days and
lots of operation at home. Not cheap, but works great, no RFI issues. No
issues with any software. Lowest cost place to buy it is B&B Electronics,
which is in a small town about 100 miles WSW of Chicago. There used to be a
great hamfest there. B&B is a great vendor of computer interface products for
professional users.

http://www.bb-elec.com/product_family.asp?FamilyId=23&Trail=2&TrailType=Top

http://www.bb-elec.com/bb-elec/literature/quatech_pcmcia.pdf

I just bought another one, AND one of the quad port interfaces so I can play
with SO2R dual RTTY decoding.

BTW -- another way to get a real hardware serial port is with a port
replicator or docking station. These can often be found for cheap from
various sources. I have a couple of port replicators for my Thinkpads. They
also provide additional audio I/O.

73,

Jim K9YC

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Rick Tavan N6XI

Re: The no-serial port conundrum

Actually, Jim, your T41 did have a serial port on its mother board. It just
wasn't exposed through a chassis connector. If you plug it into its docking
station or port extender, you have a DB9 real serial port. Ditto the T61.

/Rick

On 3/22/10, Jim Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> On Sun, 21 Mar 2010 00:09:43 -0700, Garry Shapiro wrote:
>
>
> >Tom, NW6P has a new K3 and a "modern" laptop with no serial port,
>
>
> About seven years ago, I bought a Quatech DSP-100 PC-card for my IBM T41
> Thinkpad that came without a serial port. It provides two real hardware
> serial ports from 16750 UARTS. It's been through a lot of Field Days and
> lots of operation at home. Not cheap, but works great, no RFI issues. No
> issues with any software. Lowest cost place to buy it is B&B Electronics,
> which is in a small town about 100 miles WSW of Chicago. There used to be a
>
> great hamfest there. B&B is a great vendor of computer interface products
> for
> professional users.
>
>
> http://www.bb-elec.com/product_family.asp?FamilyId=23&Trail=2&TrailType=Top
>
> http://www.bb-elec.com/bb-elec/literature/quatech_pcmcia.pdf
>
> I just bought another one, AND one of the quad port interfaces so I can
> play
> with SO2R dual RTTY decoding.
>
>
> BTW -- another way to get a real hardware serial port is with a port
> replicator or docking station. These can often be found for cheap from
> various sources. I have a couple of port replicators for my Thinkpads. They
> also provide additional audio I/O.
>
> 73,
>
> Jim K9YC
>
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

--

Rick Tavan N6XI
Truckee, CA
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Jim Brown-10

Re: The no-serial port conundrum

Ah so -- the chip is on the motherboard, and the docking station/port
replicator provides the interface. Thanks!

Is there another way to get to that port?

73,

Jim K9YC

On Mon, 22 Mar 2010 23:20:50 -0700, Rick Tavan N6XI wrote:

>Actually, Jim, your T41 did have a serial port on its mother board. It just
>wasn't exposed through a chassis connector. If you plug it into its docking
>station or port extender, you have a DB9 real serial port. Ditto the T61.

>>BTW -- another way to get a real hardware serial port is with a port
>>replicator or docking station. These can often be found for cheap from
>>various sources. I have a couple of port replicators for my Thinkpads.
>>They also provide additional audio I/O.

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

n7ws

Re: The no-serial port conundrum

I think it's more than that, considering all of the spigots.

I have for the cost of shipping a Think Pad Port Replicator II if anyone is interested. I picked it up at a swap meet with the hope that it might work with my T400. It won't so is surplus to my needs.

Wes N7WS

--- On Tue, 3/23/10, Jim Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:

> From: Jim Brown <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] The no-serial port conundrum
> To: "Elecraft List" <[hidden email]>
> Date: Tuesday, March 23, 2010, 4:49 PM
> Ah so -- the chip is on the
> motherboard, and the docking station/port
> replicator provides the interface. Thanks!
>
> Is there another way to get to that port?
>
> 73,
>
> Jim K9YC
>
> On Mon, 22 Mar 2010 23:20:50 -0700, Rick Tavan N6XI wrote:
>
> >Actually, Jim, your T41 did have a serial port on its
> mother board. It just
> >wasn't exposed through a chassis connector. If you plug
> it into its docking
> >station or port extender, you have a DB9 real serial
> port. Ditto the T61.
>
> >>BTW -- another way to get a real hardware serial
> port is with a port
> >>replicator or docking station. These can often be
> found for cheap from
> >>various sources. I have a couple of port
> replicators for my Thinkpads.
> >>They also provide additional audio I/O.
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>