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This really bugs me

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Doug Person-3

This really bugs me

Excuse the bandwidth and feel free to just hit delete if you don't want
to listen to me complain about your favorite company.

I ordered an AF1 active filter mini-module from Elecraft. Just
something fun to build and play with. The price is $59.95. OK, fine.
However, they won't ship it First Class even though their website say
First Class is fine for things up to 14oz. I'm sure the AF1 weighs less
than 3 ounces. First Class shipping for this little package would
probably be about $2.00 or less. The next shipping method available is
Priority Mail. And this is what bugs me - they want $11.98 to ship a
3oz package. Even though we've all seen the Flat Rate shipping ads on
TV a million times and I could ship 10 pounds for $5.20 all day. The
order details also claims the shipping weight is 2 pounds. Really? I
have an official Priority Mail shipping box stuffed with a comparable
small kit (WM-1 which is actually much heavier) and as much bubble wrap
as will fit on my official USPS digital scale and it reads way less than
the 14oz First Class limit (like 8oz). So the bottom line is I'm being
asked to pay $10 more for shipping then is necessary and more than twice
the going rate for the actual shipping method they claim they're going
to use. Am I just being a cry-baby? Or perhaps being retired and
living on a fixed income drives me to care very much about (and really
resent) a hidden $10 charge from a highly respected and trusted
company. I guess I'll just live without the AF-1 or any of the other
small kits I'd like to buy.

Doug -- K0DXV
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Andrew Moore-3

Re: This really bugs me

I'm not taking sides, just making a couple observations:

- I could be wrong but my gut feeling is the AF1 weighs more than 3 oz. (14,
probably not). Also, it's not just the weight of the item, but the weight
of the packaging too.

- It may be reasonable for a company to charge more for shipping than the
rate that USPS charges the company. There are added costs such as people's
time for processing/packaging/delivering/etc... these are real costs.

We can say that they may subsidize these costs by marking up other items
such as radios, but without knowledge of their business models, we really
can't make accurate assumptions.

Again I'm not taking sides, just sayin'

--Andrew, NV1B

On Wed, May 25, 2011 at 10:39 PM, Doug Person <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Excuse the bandwidth and feel free to just hit delete if you don't want
> to listen to me complain about your favorite company.
>
> I ordered an AF1 active filter mini-module from Elecraft. Just
> something fun to build and play with. The price is $59.95. OK, fine.
> However, they won't ship it First Class even though their website say
> First Class is fine for things up to 14oz. I'm sure the AF1 weighs less
> than 3 ounces. First Class shipping for this little package would
> probably be about $2.00 or less.

...
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Doug Person-3

Re: This really bugs me

As I said, I weighed a similar, probably heavier kit, fully packed in a
an official Priority Mail box on an official USPS scale - 8 ozs.
Doug -- K0DXV

On 5/25/2011 8:53 PM, Andrew Moore wrote:

> I'm not taking sides, just making a couple observations:
>
> - I could be wrong but my gut feeling is the AF1 weighs more than 3 oz. (14,
> probably not). Also, it's not just the weight of the item, but the weight
> of the packaging too.
>
> - It may be reasonable for a company to charge more for shipping than the
> rate that USPS charges the company. There are added costs such as people's
> time for processing/packaging/delivering/etc... these are real costs.
>
> We can say that they may subsidize these costs by marking up other items
> such as radios, but without knowledge of their business models, we really
> can't make accurate assumptions.
>
> Again I'm not taking sides, just sayin'
>
> --Andrew, NV1B
>
>
> On Wed, May 25, 2011 at 10:39 PM, Doug Person<[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Excuse the bandwidth and feel free to just hit delete if you don't want
>> to listen to me complain about your favorite company.
>>
>> I ordered an AF1 active filter mini-module from Elecraft. Just
>> something fun to build and play with. The price is $59.95. OK, fine.
>> However, they won't ship it First Class even though their website say
>> First Class is fine for things up to 14oz. I'm sure the AF1 weighs less
>> than 3 ounces. First Class shipping for this little package would
>> probably be about $2.00 or less.
> ...
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

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Don Wilhelm-4

Re: This really bugs me

In reply to this post by Doug Person-3

Doug,

There are other considerations to choosing either 1st class mail or
Priority Mail. One of which is the thickness of the package. I am
certain the AF1 will not qualify for the 1/4 inch thickness limit. That
is a post office limit, and has nothing to do with Elecraft. If the
extra cost of a thick package sent first class exceeds the priority mail
rate, then nothing is to be gained by shipping 1st class.

Flat Rate shipping can be deceiving. Lightweight items ship at less
cost than Flat Rate, even all the way across the US. Yes, for heavy
items, Flat Rate is a good way to go, but every shipment has to be
evaluated for the best rate - not an easy thing to do with an on-line
order form.

Elecraft is not alone in this shipping predicament. I agree that it
often does not make sense on the surface, but I do a lot of USPS
shipping, and finding the lowest rate is not a simplistic task - that is
why I wait in line at the post office while the mail clerk tries to
explain the various options to the customer. I go in prepared with my
chosen shipment type, with insurance and delivery confirmation forms
filled out, and it takes only a few minutes - but then I am an
experienced shipper and I have done the research on each and every
shipment - that is not a trivial task that can be included on a standard
order form.

Also, you are omitting any insurance or delivery confirmation "extra
services" in your complaints. The final shipping tally can be very
different than what initially meets the eye.

And you have not even figured in the cost at Elecraft to package and
address your parcel - that costs money, and is usually covered in the
"S&H" line. It takes time to package your custom order, and someone
needs to be compensated for that time and effort.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 5/25/2011 10:39 PM, Doug Person wrote:

> Excuse the bandwidth and feel free to just hit delete if you don't want
> to listen to me complain about your favorite company.
>
> I ordered an AF1 active filter mini-module from Elecraft. Just
> something fun to build and play with. The price is $59.95. OK, fine.
> However, they won't ship it First Class even though their website say
> First Class is fine for things up to 14oz. I'm sure the AF1 weighs less
> than 3 ounces. First Class shipping for this little package would
> probably be about $2.00 or less. The next shipping method available is
> Priority Mail. And this is what bugs me - they want $11.98 to ship a
> 3oz package. Even though we've all seen the Flat Rate shipping ads on
> TV a million times and I could ship 10 pounds for $5.20 all day. The
> order details also claims the shipping weight is 2 pounds. Really? I
> have an official Priority Mail shipping box stuffed with a comparable
> small kit (WM-1 which is actually much heavier) and as much bubble wrap
> as will fit on my official USPS digital scale and it reads way less than
> the 14oz First Class limit (like 8oz). So the bottom line is I'm being
> asked to pay $10 more for shipping then is necessary and more than twice
> the going rate for the actual shipping method they claim they're going
> to use. Am I just being a cry-baby? Or perhaps being retired and
> living on a fixed income drives me to care very much about (and really
> resent) a hidden $10 charge from a highly respected and trusted
> company. I guess I'll just live without the AF-1 or any of the other
> small kits I'd like to buy.
>

Andrew Moore-3

Re: This really bugs me

In reply to this post by Doug Person-3

"So the bottom line is I'm being asked to pay $10 more for shipping then is
necessary"

"Necessary" might be the key word here.

With all due respect (no harm in you asking the question), no, that's not
the bottom line. That's assuming they're shipping at exactly the rate that
the post office charges Elecraft. What about the added costs of acquiring
the packing materials, a person's time to process the order, pack the box,
take it to the PO to deliver -- again, these are real costs -- and allowing
the company to make a reasonable profit so they can stay in business, employ
people, contribute to their health insurance premiums, etc.? "Markup" isn't
necessarily a four letter word.

73,
--Andrew, NV1B
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Ken Alexander-2

Re: This really bugs me

In reply to this post by Doug Person-3

Hi Doug,

I didn't read where it says you contacted Elecraft to discuss this with them. Did you take this up with them before posting here? If not, then it seems a little unfair to complain publicly before giving them a chance to resolve the problem for you.

73,

Ken Alexander
VE3HLS

--- On Wed, 5/25/11, Doug Person <[hidden email]> wrote:

> From: Doug Person <[hidden email]>
> Subject: [Elecraft] This really bugs me
> To: [hidden email]
> Date: Wednesday, May 25, 2011, 10:39 PM
> Excuse the bandwidth and feel free to
> just hit delete if you don't want
> to listen to me complain about your favorite company.
>
> I ordered an AF1 active filter mini-module from
> Elecraft. Just
> something fun to build and play with. The price is
> $59.95. OK, fine.
> However, they won't ship it First Class even though their
> website say
> First Class is fine for things up to 14oz. I'm sure
> the AF1 weighs less
> than 3 ounces. First Class shipping for this little
> package would
> probably be about $2.00 or less. The next shipping
> method available is
> Priority Mail. And this is what bugs me - they want
> $11.98 to ship a
> 3oz package. Even though we've all seen the Flat Rate
> shipping ads on
> TV a million times and I could ship 10 pounds for $5.20 all
> day. The
> order details also claims the shipping weight is 2
> pounds. Really? I
> have an official Priority Mail shipping box stuffed with a
> comparable
> small kit (WM-1 which is actually much heavier) and
> as much bubble wrap
> as will fit on my official USPS digital scale and it reads
> way less than
> the 14oz First Class limit (like 8oz). So the bottom
> line is I'm being
> asked to pay $10 more for shipping then is necessary and
> more than twice
> the going rate for the actual shipping method they claim
> they're going
> to use. Am I just being a cry-baby? Or perhaps
> being retired and
> living on a fixed income drives me to care very much about
> (and really
> resent) a hidden $10 charge from a highly respected and
> trusted
> company. I guess I'll just live without the AF-1 or
> any of the other
> small kits I'd like to buy.
>
> Doug -- K0DXV
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ

Re: This really bugs me

Administrator

In reply to this post by Doug Person-3

Hi Doug,

That does sound a little high. All of the shipping calculations on the
order form are estimated and we can easily correct them at time of order
entry. There could even be a mistake on the form itself. Give me a
call tomorrow morning and we'll take a look at the best way to ship it
to you at low cost. I'll also check the weight of the packaged unit.

73, Eric WA6HHQ
831-763-4211

_..._

On 5/25/2011 7:39 PM, Doug Person wrote:

N5GE

Re: This really bugs me

In reply to this post by Ken Alexander-2

Yep,

I wondered about that too..

73,
Tom
Amateur Radio Operator N5GE

On Wed, 25 May 2011 20:21:47 -0700 (PDT), Ken Alexander <[hidden email]>
wrote:

>Hi Doug,
>
>I didn't read where it says you contacted Elecraft to discuss this with them. Did you take this up with them before posting here? If not, then it seems a little unfair to complain publicly before giving them a chance to resolve the problem for you.
>
>73,
>
>Ken Alexander
>VE3HLS
>
>
>
>--- On Wed, 5/25/11, Doug Person <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> From: Doug Person <[hidden email]>
>> Subject: [Elecraft] This really bugs me
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Date: Wednesday, May 25, 2011, 10:39 PM
>> Excuse the bandwidth and feel free to
>> just hit delete if you don't want
>> to listen to me complain about your favorite company.
>>
>> I ordered an AF1 active filter mini-module from
>> Elecraft. Just
>> something fun to build and play with. The price is
>> $59.95. OK, fine.
>> However, they won't ship it First Class even though their
>> website say
>> First Class is fine for things up to 14oz. I'm sure
>> the AF1 weighs less
>> than 3 ounces. First Class shipping for this little
>> package would
>> probably be about $2.00 or less. The next shipping
>> method available is
>> Priority Mail. And this is what bugs me - they want
>> $11.98 to ship a
>> 3oz package. Even though we've all seen the Flat Rate
>> shipping ads on
>> TV a million times and I could ship 10 pounds for $5.20 all
>> day. The
>> order details also claims the shipping weight is 2
>> pounds. Really? I
>> have an official Priority Mail shipping box stuffed with a
>> comparable
>> small kit (WM-1 which is actually much heavier) and
>> as much bubble wrap
>> as will fit on my official USPS digital scale and it reads
>> way less than
>> the 14oz First Class limit (like 8oz). So the bottom
>> line is I'm being
>> asked to pay $10 more for shipping then is necessary and
>> more than twice
>> the going rate for the actual shipping method they claim
>> they're going
>> to use. Am I just being a cry-baby? Or perhaps
>> being retired and
>> living on a fixed income drives me to care very much about
>> (and really
>> resent) a hidden $10 charge from a highly respected and
>> trusted
>> company. I guess I'll just live without the AF-1 or
>> any of the other
>> small kits I'd like to buy.
>>
>> Doug -- K0DXV
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
>______________________________________________________________
>Elecraft mailing list
>Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
>This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Amateur Radio Operator N5GE

Bill W4ZV

Re: This really bugs me

In reply to this post by Doug Person-3

W3FPR wrote:

> There are other considerations to choosing either 1st class mail or
Priority Mail. One of which is the thickness of the package. I am
certain the AF1 will not qualify for the 1/4 inch thickness limit. That
is a post office limit, and has nothing to do with Elecraft. If the
extra cost of a thick package sent first class exceeds the priority mail
rate, then nothing is to be gained by shipping 1st class.

There is NOT a 1/4" thickness limit on all First Class Mail.
That applies only to a **letter**. You can send **packages** via
First Class as long as the weight is 13 ounces or less and the combined
length and girth is <108 inches.

http://www.usps.com/prices/first-class-mail-prices.htm (see packages)

In my experience Elecraft generally has the lowest shipping
costs of almost anyone and I'm often shocked how fast USPS First Class
packages make the trip from California.

73, Bill W4ZV

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Re: This really bugs me

You can argue about how much it should cost to ship a small item, but only on
the Elecraft Reflector will a complaint get a response from a company principle
within hours to look into the situation. I have had responses from other
companies when I asked for an explanation or remedy that were not so positive.
Thank you Eric, Wayne and others at Elecraft for being a pleasure to deal with
even when the problem is not so pleasant.
Willis 'Cookie' Cooke
K5EWJ & Trustee N5BPS, USS Cavalla, USS Stewart

________________________________
From: Bill Tippett <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Thu, May 26, 2011 6:04:38 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] This really bugs me

W3FPR wrote:

> There are other considerations to choosing either 1st class mail or
Priority Mail. One of which is the thickness of the package. I am
certain the AF1 will not qualify for the 1/4 inch thickness limit. That
is a post office limit, and has nothing to do with Elecraft. If the
extra cost of a thick package sent first class exceeds the priority mail
rate, then nothing is to be gained by shipping 1st class.

There is NOT a 1/4" thickness limit on all First Class Mail.
That applies only to a **letter**. You can send **packages** via
First Class as long as the weight is 13 ounces or less and the combined
length and girth is <108 inches.

http://www.usps.com/prices/first-class-mail-prices.htm (see packages)

In my experience Elecraft generally has the lowest shipping
costs of almost anyone and I'm often shocked how fast USPS First Class
packages make the trip from California.

73, Bill W4ZV

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Edward R Cole

This really bugs me

In reply to this post by Doug Person-3

First off, I can symphasize with Doug, as I face unnecessarily high
shipping all the time to Alaska. I'm not speaking about Elecraft's
shipping policy, specifically, as they seem to be fair. My XG3 cost
me $8.64 to ship via USPS Priority Mail.
But recently I bought a 50v PS on ebay that cost me $18 and the
shipper wanted $74 to ship it UPS. I asked for parcel post and the
total cost was $30.xx So it pays to communicate with the
shipper. Of course I am experienced with this having ordered
electronic parts for my company for 15-years (until I retired).

You might be interested in the shipping costs for a Motorola VHF
repeater that I have for sale at $100: truck company wants $533 to
ship it to NY from AK (of course it weighs 135 lbs in 10x22x28 inch
cabinet). I don't expect the ham in NY will want to spend that. I
know you are going to say "well of course it coming from Alaska", and
to some degree you are right. But we are still one of the states in
the USA with flat-rate Priority Mail the same rate as to all
50-states. I suppose I should check with the USPS but I am fairly
certain the repeater is too heavy. Kind of puts some perspective on
this topic, though?

73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45
======================================
BP40IQ 500 KHz - 10-GHz www.kl7uw.com
EME: 50-1.1kw?, 144-1.4kw, 432-100w, 1296-testing*, 3400-?
DUBUS Magazine USA Rep [hidden email]
======================================
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Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ

Re: This really bugs me [End of thread]

Administrator

Folks - Let's end this thread. We've taken care of this with the
customer and have also adjusted the web form.

73, Eric

On 5/26/2011 9:32 AM, Edward R. Cole wrote:

> First off, I can symphasize with Doug, as I face unnecessarily high
> shipping all the time to Alaska. I'm not speaking about Elecraft's
> shipping policy, specifically, as they seem to be fair. My XG3 cost
> me $8.64 to ship via USPS Priority Mail.
> But recently I bought a 50v PS on ebay that cost me $18 and the
> shipper wanted $74 to ship it UPS. I asked for parcel post and the
> total cost was $30.xx So it pays to communicate with the
> shipper. Of course I am experienced with this having ordered
> electronic parts for my company for 15-years (until I retired).
>

Terry Schieler

Re: This really bugs me

In reply to this post by Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ

WOW! Just INCREDIBLE! Eric and Wayne (and crew) continue to amaze me.

Terry, W0FM

-----Original Message-----
From: Eric Swartz WA6HHQ - Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 10:44 PM
To: Doug Person
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] This really bugs me

Hi Doug,

That does sound a little high. All of the shipping calculations on the
order form are estimated and we can easily correct them at time of order
entry. There could even be a mistake on the form itself. Give me a
call tomorrow morning and we'll take a look at the best way to ship it
to you at low cost. I'll also check the weight of the packaged unit.

73, Eric WA6HHQ
831-763-4211

_..._

______________________________________________________________
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