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Timewave DSP-599zx

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Alan. G4GNX

Timewave DSP-599zx

Hi all.

I have really bad noise floor issues at my home QTH in the UK, especially on 40 metres and below. Some of the issues may be cured as the neighbors’ Christmas lights are packed away for the year.

I’ve been recommended to buy a Timewave DSP-599zx DSP filter by someone who does not own a K3.

My questions:

Are others using this filter in conjunction with a K3 or any other rig that already has good DSP capabilities?

Can the Timewave product really better the already excellent DSP performance of the K3?

Surely if the noise is right across the band and actually on top of the signals I want to resolve, no amount of processing is going to remove it without severely degrading the wanted signal too?

73,

Alan. G4GNX
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Eric Buggee; VK3AX

Re: Timewave DSP-599zx

Hi Alan,

The DSP599zx may well reduce the baseband (audio) noise as
demodulated; BUT it will do nothing about the ambient RF pollution on
40m and lower bands.

As you rightly conclude in your last paragraph no amount of audio
processing is going to remove the noise as received without degrading
the wanted signal(s).

73,

Eric, VK3AX.

On 1/2/2015 10:03 PM, G4GNX wrote:

> Hi all.
>
> I have really bad noise floor issues at my home QTH in the UK, especially on 40 metres and below. Some of the issues may be cured as the neighbors’ Christmas lights are packed away for the year.
>
> I’ve been recommended to buy a Timewave DSP-599zx DSP filter by someone who does not own a K3.
>
> My questions:
>
> Are others using this filter in conjunction with a K3 or any other rig that already has good DSP capabilities?
>
> Can the Timewave product really better the already excellent DSP performance of the K3?
>
> Surely if the noise is right across the band and actually on top of the signals I want to resolve, no amount of processing is going to remove it without severely degrading the wanted signal too?
>
> 73,
>
> Alan. G4GNX
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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Michael Walker

Re: Timewave DSP-599zx

I agree with Eric. You need to solve this on the rf side.

You can using a loop receiving antenna and null out the source. Or, something like an ANC4.

Mike va3mw

> On Jan 2, 2015, at 6:33 AM, Eric Buggee <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hi Alan,
>
> The DSP599zx may well reduce the baseband (audio) noise as demodulated; BUT it will do nothing about the ambient RF pollution on 40m and lower bands.
>
> As you rightly conclude in your last paragraph no amount of audio processing is going to remove the noise as received without degrading the wanted signal(s).
>
> 73,
>
> Eric, VK3AX.
>
>
>
>> On 1/2/2015 10:03 PM, G4GNX wrote:
>> Hi all.
>>
>> I have really bad noise floor issues at my home QTH in the UK, especially on 40 metres and below. Some of the issues may be cured as the neighbors’ Christmas lights are packed away for the year.
>>
>> I’ve been recommended to buy a Timewave DSP-599zx DSP filter by someone who does not own a K3.
>>
>> My questions:
>>
>> Are others using this filter in conjunction with a K3 or any other rig that already has good DSP capabilities?
>>
>> Can the Timewave product really better the already excellent DSP performance of the K3?
>>
>> Surely if the noise is right across the band and actually on top of the signals I want to resolve, no amount of processing is going to remove it without severely degrading the wanted signal too?
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> Alan. G4GNX
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
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tomb18

Re: Timewave DSP-599zx

In reply to this post by Alan. G4GNX

Hi,
I had a serious noise issue from some neighbors lights. I bought an NCC1
from DXEngineering and an active "noise" antenna from them as well. It can
get rid of noise almost completely.
Here is a video of WWV with it on and off.
http://va2fsq.com/wp-content/uploads/2013-Jan-15-20-43-43.avi
A little pricey but well worth it.

73 Tom
va2fsq.com

-----Original Message-----
From: G4GNX
Sent: Friday, January 02, 2015 6:03 AM
To: Elecraft Reflector
Subject: [Elecraft] Timewave DSP-599zx

Hi all.

I have really bad noise floor issues at my home QTH in the UK, especially on
40 metres and below. Some of the issues may be cured as the neighbors’
Christmas lights are packed away for the year.

I’ve been recommended to buy a Timewave DSP-599zx DSP filter by someone who
does not own a K3.

My questions:

Are others using this filter in conjunction with a K3 or any other rig that
already has good DSP capabilities?

Can the Timewave product really better the already excellent DSP performance
of the K3?

Surely if the noise is right across the band and actually on top of the
signals I want to resolve, no amount of processing is going to remove it
without severely degrading the wanted signal too?

73,

Alan. G4GNX
______________________________________________________________
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Robert Nobis - N7RJN

Re: Timewave DSP-599zx

Tom,

Unfortunately, your link doesn’t work. Opens to a blank screen.

73,

Bob - N7RJN
[hidden email]

> On Jan 2, 2015, at 07:33, Tom <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hi,
> I had a serious noise issue from some neighbors lights. I bought an NCC1 from DXEngineering and an active "noise" antenna from them as well. It can get rid of noise almost completely.
> Here is a video of WWV with it on and off.
> http://va2fsq.com/wp-content/uploads/2013-Jan-15-20-43-43.avi
> A little pricey but well worth it.
>
> 73 Tom
> va2fsq.com
>
> -----Original Message----- From: G4GNX
> Sent: Friday, January 02, 2015 6:03 AM
> To: Elecraft Reflector
> Subject: [Elecraft] Timewave DSP-599zx
>
> Hi all.
>
> I have really bad noise floor issues at my home QTH in the UK, especially on 40 metres and below. Some of the issues may be cured as the neighbors’ Christmas lights are packed away for the year.
>
> I’ve been recommended to buy a Timewave DSP-599zx DSP filter by someone who does not own a K3.
>
> My questions:
>
> Are others using this filter in conjunction with a K3 or any other rig that already has good DSP capabilities?
>
> Can the Timewave product really better the already excellent DSP performance of the K3?
>
> Surely if the noise is right across the band and actually on top of the signals I want to resolve, no amount of processing is going to remove it without severely degrading the wanted signal too?
>
> 73,
>
> Alan. G4GNX
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
> ---
> This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
> http://www.avast.com
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

Jim Wiley

Re: Timewave DSP-599zx

In reply to this post by tomb18

We use a NCC1 here also, although with just a low 75 and 40 meter trap
dipole for the noise pickup antenna. It is very successful in
eliminating noise from the neighbor's plasma TV, and other noise sources
that originate in our neighborhood from time to time. It only works on
one noise at a time, of course, but most of the time that is enough.

- Jim, KL7CC

On 1/2/2015 5:33 AM, Tom wrote:

> Hi,
> I had a serious noise issue from some neighbors lights. I bought an
> NCC1 from DXEngineering and an active "noise" antenna from them as
> well. It can get rid of noise almost completely.
> Here is a video of WWV with it on and off.
> http://va2fsq.com/wp-content/uploads/2013-Jan-15-20-43-43.avi
> A little pricey but well worth it.
>
> 73 Tom
> va2fsq.com
>
> -----Original Message----- From: G4GNX
> Sent: Friday, January 02, 2015 6:03 AM
> To: Elecraft Reflector
> Subject: [Elecraft] Timewave DSP-599zx
>
> Hi all.
>
> I have really bad noise floor issues at my home QTH in the UK,
> especially on 40 metres and below. Some of the issues may be cured as
> the neighbors’ Christmas lights are packed away for the year.
>
> I’ve been recommended to buy a Timewave DSP-599zx DSP filter by
> someone who does not own a K3.
>
> My questions:
>
> Are others using this filter in conjunction with a K3 or any other rig
> that already has good DSP capabilities?
>
> Can the Timewave product really better the already excellent DSP
> performance of the K3?
>
> Surely if the noise is right across the band and actually on top of
> the signals I want to resolve, no amount of processing is going to
> remove it without severely degrading the wanted signal too?
>
> 73,
>
> Alan. G4GNX
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
> ---
> This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus
> protection is active.
> http://www.avast.com
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

dmb@lightstream.net

Re: Timewave DSP-599zx

In reply to this post by tomb18

I agree 100% about the effectiveness of the NCC-1. I've been using one for
about 3 years, and it is a very well-designed and well-built product. When
coupled with a noise sense antenna that can receive the offending noise at
close to the same level as your primary antenna (give or take 10dB or so),
one can virtually eliminate the offending noise. It offers a lot of
versatility, allowing you to phase a noise antenna against your transmit
antenna, or even two receiving antennas against each other with the output
going to your K3's RX input.

Here's a link to the User's Manual:
<
http://static.dxengineering.com/global/images/instructions/dxe-ncc-1_oh.pdf
>

Here's a link to the QST Review:
<
http://static.dxengineering.com/global/images/technicalarticles/dxe-ncc-1.pdf
>

73, Dale
WA8SRA

> Hi,
> I had a serious noise issue from some neighbors lights. I bought an NCC1
> from DXEngineering and an active "noise" antenna from them as well. It
> can
> get rid of noise almost completely.
> Here is a video of WWV with it on and off.
> http://va2fsq.com/wp-content/uploads/2013-Jan-15-20-43-43.avi
> A little pricey but well worth it.
>
> 73 Tom
> va2fsq.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: G4GNX
> Sent: Friday, January 02, 2015 6:03 AM
> To: Elecraft Reflector
> Subject: [Elecraft] Timewave DSP-599zx
>
> Hi all.
>
> I have really bad noise floor issues at my home QTH in the UK, especially
> on
> 40 metres and below. Some of the issues may be cured as the neighbors
> Christmas lights are packed away for the year.
>
> Ive been recommended to buy a Timewave DSP-599zx DSP filter by someone
> who
> does not own a K3.
>
> My questions:
>
> Are others using this filter in conjunction with a K3 or any other rig
> that
> already has good DSP capabilities?
>
> Can the Timewave product really better the already excellent DSP
> performance
> of the K3?
>
> Surely if the noise is right across the band and actually on top of the
> signals I want to resolve, no amount of processing is going to remove it
> without severely degrading the wanted signal too?
>
> 73,
>
> Alan. G4GNX

Robert Cunnings

Re: Timewave DSP-599zx

In reply to this post by Jim Wiley

I have local noise problems which come and go depending on time of
day, day of week etc. I didn't like the idea of having a noise
cancelling device in the high power transmit path, so picked up a DX
Engineering NCC-1 which is perfect for use with my K3, inserted between
the antenna OUT and antenna IN jacks. I have a horizontally polarized loop
which I use as the RX antenna on the K3 when I need to fight noise. A
vertical doublet antenna is used as the transmit antenna, which serves as
the noise sense antenna in receive when the NCC-1 is active.

To do this, the loop antenna goes to antenna port A on the NCC-1
(receive antenna input), K3 antenna OUT (from the transmit antenna)
goes to antenna port B on the NCC-1 (noise antenna input) and the
output of the NCC-1 goes to the K3 antenna IN. K3 KEY OUT goes to NCC-1
T/R CTRL to put it in bypass when the K3 is keyed.

Now I have 3 choices:

1. If I then select the RX antenna on the K3, the NCC-1 is inserted and I
use the quieter loop antenna for receive while nulling noise with the
NCC-1 controls.
2. If I don't select the RX antenna on the K3, the NCC-1 is bypassed, and
the transmit antenna is used for receive.
3. If I select the RX antenna on the K3, but turn the NCC-1 OFF, then I
receive on the loop antenna, but the signal passes straight through the
NCC-1 from antenna port A to the output without modification (sometimes
that's all that's needed, it's much quieter than the vertical when it
comes to the nearby noise pollution sources).

The NCC-1 can provide a very deep null on the receive loop antenna for
vertically polarized noise which is "heard" better on the vertical. The
trick is to correctly balance the levels of the two antenna inputs on the
NCC-1. The balance and phase controls are very precise and repeatable, and
the phase control has a wide range. Having the P3 to look at helps
in identifying the noise and finding what can be a very sharp (but deep)
null.

There are complications. One is that when the NCC-1 is active I need to
disable full QSK on the K3 in CW mode so that the internal bypass relay
in the NCC-1 doesn't make a lot of noise as it follows the keying.

The other involves antenna tuners. I use a KAT500, and if a frequency
change causes it to recall new L and C settings then the NCC-1
phase setting may need to be touched up because the phase of the noise
signal from the transmit antenna is changed (and the NCC-1 null can be
very sharp indeed).

But for me the benefits have far outweighed the costs.

Bob NW8L

On Fri, 2 Jan 2015, Jim Wiley wrote:

> We use a NCC1 here also, although with just a low 75 and 40 meter trap
> dipole for the noise pickup antenna. It is very successful in
> eliminating noise from the neighbor's plasma TV, and other noise sources
> that originate in our neighborhood from time to time. It only works on
> one noise at a time, of course, but most of the time that is enough.
>
> - Jim, KL7CC
>
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Michael Walker

Re: Timewave DSP-599zx

For those with the NCC1, how has it been on 20M as that is my worst band
(assuming it is 1 type of noise)?

It was my local noise that caused me to build my entire remote base.
However, the addition of such may help me with using my home station at
times.

Mike va3mw

>
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Jim Brown-10

Re: Timewave DSP-599zx

In reply to this post by Alan. G4GNX

On Fri,1/2/2015 3:03 AM, G4GNX wrote:
> I’ve been recommended to buy a Timewave DSP-599zx DSP filter by someone who does not own a K3.

I had one that I tried to use with a Ten Tec Omni V. I found it next to
useless. Yes, it does narrowband audio filters, but they're no better
than what's in the Omni V, and there's a lot of audio distortion because
the audio stages are poorly designed.

This product is a real dud.

73, Jim K9YC
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Merv Schweigert

Re: Timewave DSP-599zx

Have to second that Jim, I also had one I tried to use with a Omni 6
plus and it was zero
help at all, I tried the speaker mounted version 59 something for the
FT-1000D and it
also was useless, for me at least, sold both and sure have not missed
them.

73 Merv K9FD/KH6

> On Fri,1/2/2015 3:03 AM, G4GNX wrote:
>> I’ve been recommended to buy a Timewave DSP-599zx DSP filter by
>> someone who does not own a K3.
>
> I had one that I tried to use with a Ten Tec Omni V. I found it next
> to useless. Yes, it does narrowband audio filters, but they're no
> better than what's in the Omni V, and there's a lot of audio
> distortion because the audio stages are poorly designed.
>
> This product is a real dud.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
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>