Today's HW-101?
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Do you guys think it is feasible to design / build a basic 100 watt HF
transceiver kit that would sell for $600? Something that would give basic SSB / CW / Data modes, 10-80, with good (not great) performance. And would such a kit sell, or have people moved past that sort of rig? I think the closest thing we have to that today is the $1000 rigs from Ikensu or maybe the Argonaut from TT. - Keith N1AS - - K2 5411.ssb.100 - - K3 Wave 3 - _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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Sure, imagine a K2 with knobs and switches and without computer control. Then mass produce it, and away you go. Just your basic CW/SSB 80 to 10 meter rig without an antenna tuner, keyer, precise frequency readout, passband tuning, filters, maybe some vfo drift, etc. Part of the key is the mass production part, heathkit sold a lot of gear, and a lot of it was the same, the DX100/DX100b ran a while, as the HW100, HW101, and the (almost the same) SB101. Just what was the audio output tube in the HW101? I remember it being so rare, heathkit was the only place I could find one back then... I was never fond of the DX100 'built out' mod transformer designed to clip audio at 90% modulation by generating distortion (and sometimes blowing the transformer) from an incorrect ratio, or the low voltage tap off the center of two 450 volt electrolytic filter caps running at 850 volts, and other cost saving tricks heathkit did. I guess I just come from a homebrewers standpoint, where I don't need to make so many compromises to cost. I guess that is why I got rid of all that old stuff and went all home brew, too much cost cutting.... I don't think the rig you describe (hw101 specs) would sell at all, unless it was a kit maybe. You can buy a good used rig for much less. A good used icom 756 pro with fancy screen can be got for about $1000.00, an old FT101 or an old kenwood (with tube finals) can be got very cheap... Brett N2DTS > > Do you guys think it is feasible to design / build a basic 100 watt HF > transceiver kit that would sell for $600? Something that would give > basic SSB / CW / Data modes, 10-80, with good (not great) performance. > > And would such a kit sell, or have people moved past that sort of rig? > > I think the closest thing we have to that today is the $1000 rigs from > Ikensu or maybe the Argonaut from TT. > > - Keith N1AS - > - K2 5411.ssb.100 - > - K3 Wave 3 - > _______________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Post to: [hidden email] > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com > _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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-----Original Message----- I don't think the rig you describe (hw101 specs) would sell at all, unless it was a kit maybe. ------------------------ Sorry, I wasn't clear. I'm not suggesting "HW-101" specs, but a rig that would occupy the same market segment that the old hot-water did. Low cost, good (not great) performance. I'd expect that both cost and performance would be measured by today's standards, not those from 30 yrs ago. The rig I'm thinking of is probably the IC-718, but I want it as a kit and would like to have a bit better performance and am willing to give up flash & features. - Keith N1AS - - K2 5411.ssb.100 - - K3 Wave 3 - _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
Today's HW-101 - Elecraft vs. Heath - What @#$%@#$
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In reply to this post by Darwin, Keith
Elecraft cannot and should not be compared to Heath. Elecraft has technology far advanced from what Heath had to offer. The vaunted HW101 was for the most part crap! Yes, I had one for years and it was the main rig. When I saw the movie Frequency I about fell out of my seat laughing. The unit in the movie did not have the cover on. Mine didn't either because it always had to be tweaked For the love of ham radio...the coils were all made out of paper...and any humidity or the lack there off....would through off the whole unit. The paper would expand and contract and I had to fiddle with the tuning all the time. The VFO was not that accurate but it was stable enough. The SB series were better but not by much. Heath got a start in electronic kits because they had a cheap reservoir of parts from WWII. I loved my DX-40 but hated the darn VF-1. Drift all over the place. I rebuilt mine using better components (NPO Caps) and made sure I had a spare 6CL6 around. I also had to regulate not only the screen (which is was anyway) but also the B+. Don't even think of keying the VF-1...chirp, chirp, chirp. The DX-40 was a work horse and a good transmitter. Elecraft cannot even compared to the old Heath except to say they both were kit manufacturers. I used a nice soldering station on the K2...I used by Dad's Weller soldering gun on the HW101. (The HW100 was even worse). I also used the same soldering gun to put together dipole antenna.s Technology has moved on...better parts...better designs...computers...etc. You just cannot compare the two. It is like comparing a little league team to the Yankees. Heath had its place...and they tried to move into the market place to compete against Y, K, and I. But, it just did not work...because of the quality issue. Just my two cents....and have change too. Lee - K0WA :>) In our day and age it seems that Common Sense is in short supply. If you don't have any Common Sense - get some Common Sense and use it. If you can't find any Common Sense, ask for help from somebody who has some Common Sense. Is Common Sense divine? _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Darwin, Keith
-----Original Message----- From: Darwin, Keith <[hidden email]> >Do you guys think it is feasible to design / build a basic 100 watt HF >transceiver kit that would sell for $600? Something that would give >basic SSB / CW / Data modes, 10-80, with good (not great) performance. The main problem I see in meeting the $600 price goal is the 100 watt requirement. Look how much the KPA100 costs. -- If I understand the problem, what you'd want would include: - 80/40/30/20/17/15/12/10 meter coverage. (leave out 60 and 160 if they drive the price up, include them if it doesn't cost too much). - Synthesized VFO with RIT, maybe a couple of memories - CW, SSB, data modes via soundcard - PTT, VOX, semi-break-in - Basic controls on panel (RF gain, AF gain, tuning, band select, AGC off/slow/fast, filter narrow/wide) - Kit form What you're describing is a basic K2/100 with SSB. IMHO, if you took a K2/100 and removed features like the preamp, attenuator, QSK, direct keypad entry, dial lock, selectable tuning rate, CW reverse, multiple filter widths, scanning, yada yada yada, I don't think the price would come down much, nor would the hardware be much simpler. IIRC, an HW-101 with sharp filter but no power supply cost about $280 in 1968 or so. Run that price through an inflation-adjustment calculator and see how it compares to the cost of a basic K2 with SSB and KPA100. Note also that you could build the K2 first, then add the SSB and KPA100 later. Plus other options (audio filter, NB, 160/2nd rx, etc.) that were never available for the '101. And that the HW-101 did not have RIT nor even the option for a second VFO. However, the HW-101 smells better. 73 de Jim, N2EY ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Darwin, Keith
On 10/2/07, Darwin, Keith <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > -----Original Message----- > I don't think the rig you describe (hw101 specs) would sell at all, > unless it was a kit maybe. > ------------------------ > > Sorry, I wasn't clear. I'm not suggesting "HW-101" specs, but a rig > that would occupy the same market segment that the old hot-water did. > Low cost, good (not great) performance. I'd expect that both cost and Welll if you wanted a low cost, great performing radio kit I would of suggested a K2 (10W) with SSB (KSB2) for ~$750. Considering that price is in the same ballpark as the current video game consoles (Playstation 3, Xbox 2), I think that can be considered "affordable" for a new radio these days. -Michael, VE3TIX _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Darwin, Keith
I think a no frills K2 would fit the bill, its
the only kit that does 80 to 10 and 100 watts that I know about. If elecraft sold zillions of them, the price could likely get to $600.00. Brett > -----Original Message----- > From: [hidden email] > [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Darwin, Keith > Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 12:55 PM > To: [hidden email] > Subject: RE: [Elecraft] Today's HW-101? > > > -----Original Message----- > I don't think the rig you describe (hw101 specs) would sell at all, > unless it was a kit maybe. > ------------------------ > > Sorry, I wasn't clear. I'm not suggesting "HW-101" specs, but a rig > that would occupy the same market segment that the old hot-water did. > Low cost, good (not great) performance. I'd expect that both cost and > performance would be measured by today's standards, not those from 30 > yrs ago. > > The rig I'm thinking of is probably the IC-718, but I want it as a kit > and would like to have a bit better performance and am willing to give > up flash & features. > > - Keith N1AS - > - K2 5411.ssb.100 - > - K3 Wave 3 - > _______________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Post to: [hidden email] > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com > _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by N2EY
On 10/2/07, [hidden email] <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > IIRC, an HW-101 with sharp filter but no power supply cost about $280 > in 1968 or so. > Run that price through an inflation-adjustment calculator and see how > it compares > to the cost of a basic K2 with SSB and KPA100. "What cost $280 in 1968 would cost $1633.40 in 2006." Source: <http://www.westegg.com/inflation/> K2, KPA100, KSB2 is $1117.00 new unbuilt from Elecraft. -Michael, VE3TIX _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Brett gazdzinski-2
-----Original Message-----
From: Brett gazdzinski <[hidden email]> S >heathkit sold a lot of gear, and >a lot of it was the same, the DX100/DX100b ran a while, as the HW100, HW101, >and the (almost the same) SB101. The DX-100/B was on the market for less time than the K2, and there are no plans to discontinue the K2. Many Heathkit models are similar but *not* the same. When they made improvements they changed the model number. DX-40 is an improved DX-35, etc. Some years back, Electric Radio published a list of how many EF Johnson ham rigs were actually made in their day. The numbers were surprisingly low. I can look them up if anyone is interested. It would be really interesting to know the number of Heathkit ham rigs produced. I suspect it's a lot lower than we imagine, particularly for rigs other than the big sellers like the HW-101. The HW101 was an improved HW-100, which was derived from the SB100/101/102 family. The big savings in the HW series was the elimination of the expensive preassembled LMO module and its dial drive, plus some features like provision for a remote 2nd VFO. >Just what was the audio output tube in the HW101? 6GW8 Triode-pentode. >I remember it being sorare, heathkit >was the only place I could find one back then... It was a standard TV tube. All my catalogs (Allied, Newark) had the 6GW8 and the 6BN8 used in the '101. >I guess I just come from a homebrewers standpoint, where I don't need to >make so many compromises to cost.I guess that is why I got rid of all that >old stuff and went all home brew, too much cost cutting.... I did the same thing, but it only works if you have parts sources that cost much less than what manufacturers pay in quantity. No manufacturer can pull the precision variable capacitor out of a BC-221 frequency meter and build a rig around it, but a homebrewer can. This one did - twice. A homebrewer who buys all new parts in small quantities will not save money. Been that way for more than half a century. Heck, I'll bet the stock parts in a K2, if bought new from Allied/Newark/Mouser/Digikey in small quantities, would add up to a surprising percentage of the kit's price. >I don't think the rig you describe (hw101 specs) would sell at all, unless >it was a kit maybe. You can buy a good used rig for much less. That's what I heard folks say about the K2 back in 1999. 6300+ K2s later, I guess they were wrong.... Yes you can get a good used late-model rig, but can you work on it? Does it have top-shelf performance at a bottom-shelf price? How much does someone learn from buying a used rig vs. building a kit? Historical note about Heathkit: The company didn't originally make electronic kits. They made kit airplanes. Rhinebeck Aerodrome has one. Heath got their start in electronics kits after WW2, designing things around war surplus parts they got for pennies on the pound. That's why the oddball tubes in their early test gear. (1626 as a rectifier?) You have to keep in mind the state of the art and economy of their times. Plus inflation. 73 de Jim, N2EY ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by michael taylor-3
-----Original Message----- From: michael taylor <[hidden email]> >"What cost $280 in 1968 would cost $1633.40 in 2006." >Source: <http://www.westegg.com/inflation/> >K2, KPA100, KSB2 is $1117.00 new unbuilt from Elecraft. Thanks, Michael! Running $1117 through the same source backwards gives $191.48. (what you buy for $1117 today cost $191.48 then). What new rig could you buy for $191.48 in 1968? 73 de Jim, N2EY ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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