Elecraft

Touch-screen displays

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w7hd

Touch-screen displays

There is yet another major problem with those touch-screen displays. On
mobile installations, they are very distracting, therefore very
dangerous. If there isn't a labeled button for it, it isn't easy to
use. Also, long presses to activate a function don't always work well
when you are on a bumpy road, which describes a lot of our major highway
and city streets these days, especially in southern Arizona.

Meanwhile, one of the big problems even on base-station rigs is that you
are still faced with MENU choices that can be several levels deep and
completely non-intuitive. How much time do you want to spend just
getting the radio ready to listen in your preferred mode? There can be
literally hundreds of choices, some labeled in someones tech-speak.
(When was the last time you referred to mic input gain as multi/ch or
digital mode input level as dAtA DT GaIN - menu item 65 of 178?) Or
worse yet, you select menu item 50, only to be told to press SUB to
enable changing it.

The KX3 isn't immune to this, either. It sometimes requires that you
press and hold KHZ for 3 seconds to enable changing a setting.
I started operating FLDIGI in RIGCAT mode specifically so I could create
macros that would :
[1] change the mode,
[2] set rig frequency,
[3] set display freq,
[4] change the bandwidth,
[5] display a message to the user, and
[6] start auto-tune
and do all this with ONE click of a labeled button.

Ron W7HD

Harry Yingst via Elecraft wrote:

> I'm the same way, I work on complex stuff all day as well.
> In my other Expensive Hobby I keep a Reef Aquarium. I've seen a lot of gizmos and gadgets come and go over the yearsand even I fell for a few of them, but more and more I have come full circle and back to the tried methods and equipment.
> I think many at times fall for the latest gizmo or craze, then we realize that it's not all it's cracked up to be.
>
> Touchscreens do have their place, but not on an HF rig (at least mine) I prefer real buttons and knobs.
> I bought the K-Line is because it was straightforward and not overly (and unnecessarily complex) and somethingthat I could work on if it breaks. At the end of the day I want a radio that lets me hear the other guy, so I can talk to him.
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Phil Hystad<[hidden email]>
> To: Jerry Moore<[hidden email]>
> Cc: [hidden email]; John Fritze<[hidden email]>
> Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2015 10:43 AM
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Icom IC-7300
>
>> Personally I'm surrounded and use fancy tech all day long. When it's time to
>> get on the air I want simple, straight up, and reliable.
>
> DITTO!
>
> 73, phil, K7PEH
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
>

W1KSZ

Re: Touch-screen displays

Simple answer ... provide speech recognition. Lots of cars have it built in.

73, Dick, W1KSZ

-----Original Message-----
From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
[hidden email]
Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2015 9:44 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Elecraft] Touch-screen displays

There is yet another major problem with those touch-screen displays. On
mobile installations, they are very distracting, therefore very dangerous.
If there isn't a labeled button for it, it isn't easy to use. Also, long
presses to activate a function don't always work well when you are on a
bumpy road, which describes a lot of our major highway and city streets
these days, especially in southern Arizona.

Meanwhile, one of the big problems even on base-station rigs is that you are
still faced with MENU choices that can be several levels deep and completely
non-intuitive. How much time do you want to spend just getting the radio
ready to listen in your preferred mode? There can be literally hundreds of
choices, some labeled in someones tech-speak.
(When was the last time you referred to mic input gain as multi/ch or
digital mode input level as dAtA DT GaIN - menu item 65 of 178?) Or worse
yet, you select menu item 50, only to be told to press SUB to enable
changing it.

The KX3 isn't immune to this, either. It sometimes requires that you press
and hold KHZ for 3 seconds to enable changing a setting.
I started operating FLDIGI in RIGCAT mode specifically so I could create
macros that would :
[1] change the mode,
[2] set rig frequency,
[3] set display freq,
[4] change the bandwidth,
[5] display a message to the user, and
[6] start auto-tune
and do all this with ONE click of a labeled button.

Ron W7HD

Harry Yingst via Elecraft wrote:
> I'm the same way, I work on complex stuff all day as well.
> In my other Expensive Hobby I keep a Reef Aquarium. I've seen a lot of
gizmos and gadgets come and go over the yearsand even I fell for a few of
them, but more and more I have come full circle and back to the tried
methods and equipment.
> I think many at times fall for the latest gizmo or craze, then we realize
that it's not all it's cracked up to be.
>
> Touchscreens do have their place, but not on an HF rig (at least mine) I
prefer real buttons and knobs.
> I bought the K-Line is because it was straightforward and not overly (and
unnecessarily complex) and somethingthat I could work on if it breaks. At
the end of the day I want a radio that lets me hear the other guy, so I can
talk to him.

>
>
>
>
>
> From: Phil Hystad<[hidden email]>
> To: Jerry Moore<[hidden email]>
> Cc: [hidden email]; John Fritze<[hidden email]>
> Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2015 10:43 AM
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Icom IC-7300
>
>> Personally I'm surrounded and use fancy tech all day long. When it's
>> time to get on the air I want simple, straight up, and reliable.
>
> DITTO!
>
> 73, phil, K7PEH
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email
> list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
>

Elecraft mailing list

Re: Touch-screen displays

The speak recognition in my Jeep is more a hindrance than a help.

From: Richard W. Solomon <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2015 3:05 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Touch-screen displays

Simple answer ... provide speech recognition. Lots of cars have it built in.

73, Dick, W1KSZ

-----Original Message-----
From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
[hidden email]
Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2015 9:44 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Elecraft] Touch-screen displays

There is yet another major problem with those touch-screen displays. On
mobile installations, they are very distracting, therefore very dangerous.
If there isn't a labeled button for it, it isn't easy to use. Also, long
presses to activate a function don't always work well when you are on a
bumpy road, which describes a lot of our major highway and city streets
these days, especially in southern Arizona.

Meanwhile, one of the big problems even on base-station rigs is that you are
still faced with MENU choices that can be several levels deep and completely
non-intuitive. How much time do you want to spend just getting the radio
ready to listen in your preferred mode? There can be literally hundreds of
choices, some labeled in someones tech-speak.
(When was the last time you referred to mic input gain as multi/ch or
digital mode input level as dAtA DT GaIN - menu item 65 of 178?) Or worse
yet, you select menu item 50, only to be told to press SUB to enable
changing it.

The KX3 isn't immune to this, either. It sometimes requires that you press
and hold KHZ for 3 seconds to enable changing a setting.
I started operating FLDIGI in RIGCAT mode specifically so I could create
macros that would :
[1] change the mode,
[2] set rig frequency,
[3] set display freq,
[4] change the bandwidth,
[5] display a message to the user, and
[6] start auto-tune
and do all this with ONE click of a labeled button.

Ron W7HD

Harry Yingst via Elecraft wrote:
> I'm the same way, I work on complex stuff all day as well.
> In my other Expensive Hobby I keep a Reef Aquarium. I've seen a lot of
gizmos and gadgets come and go over the yearsand even I fell for a few of
them, but more and more I have come full circle and back to the tried
methods and equipment.
> I think many at times fall for the latest gizmo or craze, then we realize
that it's not all it's cracked up to be.
>
> Touchscreens do have their place, but not on an HF rig (at least mine) I
prefer real buttons and knobs.
> I bought the K-Line is because it was straightforward and not overly (and
unnecessarily complex) and somethingthat I could work on if it breaks. At
the end of the day I want a radio that lets me hear the other guy, so I can
talk to him.

--
OMISS#9898 Linuxuser#415320 NAQCC#7587
My homepage: http://w7hd.net

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Fred Townsend-2

Re: Touch-screen displays

In reply to this post by W1KSZ

How is that going to work? Are you commanding the radio or talking to
someone? Doesn't seem simple to me.
73
Fred, AE6QL

-----Original Message-----
From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
Richard W. Solomon
Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2015 12:05 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Touch-screen displays

Simple answer ... provide speech recognition. Lots of cars have it built in.

73, Dick, W1KSZ

-----Original Message-----
From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
[hidden email]
Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2015 9:44 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Elecraft] Touch-screen displays

There is yet another major problem with those touch-screen displays. On
mobile installations, they are very distracting, therefore very dangerous.
If there isn't a labeled button for it, it isn't easy to use. Also, long
presses to activate a function don't always work well when you are on a
bumpy road, which describes a lot of our major highway and city streets
these days, especially in southern Arizona.

Meanwhile, one of the big problems even on base-station rigs is that you are
still faced with MENU choices that can be several levels deep and completely
non-intuitive. How much time do you want to spend just getting the radio
ready to listen in your preferred mode? There can be literally hundreds of
choices, some labeled in someones tech-speak.
(When was the last time you referred to mic input gain as multi/ch or
digital mode input level as dAtA DT GaIN - menu item 65 of 178?) Or worse
yet, you select menu item 50, only to be told to press SUB to enable
changing it.

The KX3 isn't immune to this, either. It sometimes requires that you press
and hold KHZ for 3 seconds to enable changing a setting.
I started operating FLDIGI in RIGCAT mode specifically so I could create
macros that would :
[1] change the mode,
[2] set rig frequency,
[3] set display freq,
[4] change the bandwidth,
[5] display a message to the user, and
[6] start auto-tune
and do all this with ONE click of a labeled button.

Ron W7HD

Harry Yingst via Elecraft wrote:
> I'm the same way, I work on complex stuff all day as well.
> In my other Expensive Hobby I keep a Reef Aquarium. I've seen a lot of
gizmos and gadgets come and go over the yearsand even I fell for a few of
them, but more and more I have come full circle and back to the tried
methods and equipment.
> I think many at times fall for the latest gizmo or craze, then we
> realize
that it's not all it's cracked up to be.
>
> Touchscreens do have their place, but not on an HF rig (at least mine)
> I
prefer real buttons and knobs.
> I bought the K-Line is because it was straightforward and not overly
> (and
unnecessarily complex) and somethingthat I could work on if it breaks. At
the end of the day I want a radio that lets me hear the other guy, so I can
talk to him.

--
OMISS#9898 Linuxuser#415320 NAQCC#7587
My homepage: http://w7hd.net

______________________________________________________________
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Bill Frantz

Re: Touch-screen displays

What I have noticed over the years is that the UI hardware has
gotten worse. Keyboards are the most obvious example. I am a
good touch typist. When I started to learn CW (for the third
time), I decided to use a keyboard rather than trying to write
with a pencil, since I can type considerably faster than I can
write. I quickly discovered that the keyboard on my Mac laptop
wasn't good enough for fast typing. I bought a HP keyboard which
isn't as good as the old IBM Selectric keyboards, but is better
than the Mac keyboard. All the touch screen keyboards I have
used have been much worse than either of these two keyboards.

If you need tactile feedback, touch screens don't have any.

For those who want to experiment with touch screens and the
K3/K3s/KX3, a programming project will let you use the
programming interface to the radios and a touch screen computer
to prototype this kind of interface. Perhaps Tom's (va2fsq)
Win4K3Suite on a touch screen computer would do the job without
programming yourself.

73 Bill AE6JV

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Frantz | Truth and love must prevail | Periwinkle
(408)356-8506 | over lies and hate. | 16345
Englewood Ave
www.pwpconsult.com | - Vaclav Havel | Los Gatos,
CA 95032

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Deni F5VJC

Re: Touch-screen displays

Touch screen technology is just not good enough, very irritating and IMHO
totally useless on a transceiver.

I hate it on my smartphone too!

73, Deni - F5VJC

On 4 September 2015 at 08:28, Bill Frantz <[hidden email]> wrote:

> What I have noticed over the years is that the UI hardware has gotten
> worse. Keyboards are the most obvious example. I am a good touch typist.
> When I started to learn CW (for the third time), I decided to use a
> keyboard rather than trying to write with a pencil, since I can type
> considerably faster than I can write. I quickly discovered that the
> keyboard on my Mac laptop wasn't good enough for fast typing. I bought a HP
> keyboard which isn't as good as the old IBM Selectric keyboards, but is
> better than the Mac keyboard. All the touch screen keyboards I have used
> have been much worse than either of these two keyboards.
>
> If you need tactile feedback, touch screens don't have any.
>
> For those who want to experiment with touch screens and the K3/K3s/KX3, a
> programming project will let you use the programming interface to the
> radios and a touch screen computer to prototype this kind of interface.
> Perhaps Tom's (va2fsq) Win4K3Suite on a touch screen computer would do the
> job without programming yourself.
>
> 73 Bill AE6JV
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Bill Frantz | Truth and love must prevail | Periwinkle
> (408)356-8506 | over lies and hate. | 16345 Englewood Ave
> www.pwpconsult.com | - Vaclav Havel | Los Gatos, CA 95032
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

Jim Low man

Re: Touch-screen displays

In reply to this post by Bill Frantz

On vintage radios, when you flip a switch or turn a knob, you can be
fairly certain of the result.

One problem that I have with touchscreens, with some regularity, is that
of certainty that the touch accomplished the intended task.
Sometimes I barely graze an icon with my finger, and other times I
almost have to stand on it, or touch it repeatedly, to achieve results.

73 de Jim - AD6CW

On 9/3/2015 11:28 PM, Bill Frantz wrote:

> What I have noticed over the years is that the UI hardware has gotten
> worse. Keyboards are the most obvious example. I am a good touch
> typist. When I started to learn CW (for the third time), I decided to
> use a keyboard rather than trying to write with a pencil, since I can
> type considerably faster than I can write. I quickly discovered that
> the keyboard on my Mac laptop wasn't good enough for fast typing. I
> bought a HP keyboard which isn't as good as the old IBM Selectric
> keyboards, but is better than the Mac keyboard. All the touch screen
> keyboards I have used have been much worse than either of these two
> keyboards.
>
> If you need tactile feedback, touch screens don't have any.
>
> For those who want to experiment with touch screens and the
> K3/K3s/KX3, a programming project will let you use the programming
> interface to the radios and a touch screen computer to prototype this
> kind of interface. Perhaps Tom's (va2fsq) Win4K3Suite on a touch
> screen computer would do the job without programming yourself.
>
> 73 Bill AE6JV
>

Gary Gregory-2

Re: Touch-screen displays

And sometimes it seems the device warrants a couple of thumps with a mallet?

Microsoft Lumia smart phone 📞 springs to mind

Gary

-----Original Message-----
From: "Jim Lowman" <[hidden email]>
Sent: ‎5/‎09/‎2015 7:23 AM
To: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Touch-screen displays

On vintage radios, when you flip a switch or turn a knob, you can be
fairly certain of the result.

One problem that I have with touchscreens, with some regularity, is that
of certainty that the touch accomplished the intended task.
Sometimes I barely graze an icon with my finger, and other times I
almost have to stand on it, or touch it repeatedly, to achieve results.

73 de Jim - AD6CW

On 9/3/2015 11:28 PM, Bill Frantz wrote:

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Bill Frantz

[OT] Keyboards

In reply to this post by Bill Frantz

In a thread "Touch-screen displays" on 9/3/15 at 11:28 PM,
[hidden email] I wrote:

>What I have noticed over the years is that the UI hardware has
>gotten worse. Keyboards are the most obvious example. I am a
>good touch typist. When I started to learn CW (for the third
>time), I decided to use a keyboard rather than trying to write
>with a pencil, since I can type considerably faster than I can
>write. I quickly discovered that the keyboard on my Mac laptop
>wasn't good enough for fast typing. I bought a HP keyboard
>which isn't as good as the old IBM Selectric keyboards, but is
>better than the Mac keyboard. All the touch screen keyboards I
>have used have been much worse than either of these two keyboards.

One of the other readers of this list sent me a pointer to
Unicomp <http://pckeyboard.com/>, which sells keyboards with
real tactile feedback. I fired off an order for a Buckling
Spring USB keyboard with a Macintosh layout. Slow USPS delivery
took about a week, but the resulting keyboard is very nice. I
get fewer errors copying W1AW code practice at 13 and 15 WPM (my
current speed limit). The general feel is very nice. If you want
a nicer feeling keyboard then the OEM one, they cost $80 to $110
or so depending on features.

73 Bill AE6JV

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Frantz | Since the IBM Selectric, keyboards have gotten
408-356-8506 | steadily worse. Now we have touchscreen keyboards.
www.pwpconsult.com | Can we make something even worse?

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