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Turn on turn off transients

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Richard Thorpe-2

Turn on turn off transients

Is there any way to stop the tooth rattling turn on and turn off thump from the K3? It can't be good to have a blast of DC go through my external speakers I jump every time this happens.

K6CG
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Guy, K2AV

Re: Turn on turn off transients

What " tooth rattling turn on and turn off thump from the K3"?

Never heard that myself. I use the K3 power button to turn off and on.
Some folks I know turn off the power supply. Maybe that's different?
Exactly how do you turn rig on and off?

73, Guy.

On Tue, May 1, 2012 at 12:26 PM, Richard Thorpe <[hidden email]> wrote:

> tooth rattling turn on and turn off thump from the K3
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Tim Tucker

Re: Turn on turn off transients

My K3 thumps the powered external speakers pretty good when I turn it
on/off using the power switch on the front of the rig.

Tim

On Tue, May 1, 2012 at 10:24 AM, Guy Olinger K2AV <[hidden email]>wrote:

> What " tooth rattling turn on and turn off thump from the K3"?
>
> Never heard that myself. I use the K3 power button to turn off and on.
> Some folks I know turn off the power supply. Maybe that's different?
> Exactly how do you turn rig on and off?
>
> 73, Guy.
>
> On Tue, May 1, 2012 at 12:26 PM, Richard Thorpe <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > tooth rattling turn on and turn off thump from the K3
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--
-----------------------------------------
Owner, worldwidedx.com
AE6LX, Amateur Radio
NNN0ITA, Navy MARS
NNN0GAF FOUR, Southern CA Director Assistant for Training, Navy MARS
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Mike K2MK

Re: Turn on turn off transients

In reply to this post by Richard Thorpe-2

Hi Richard,

Do you have the problem if you only use the internal speaker? Is your firmware up to date?

73,
Mike K2MK

Richard Thorpe-2 wrote

Is there any way to stop the tooth rattling turn on and turn off thump from the K3? It can't be good to have a blast of DC go through my external speakers I jump every time this happens.

K6CG

Bob-2

Re: Turn on turn off transients

I have had the same issue as K6CG. There is a "thump" or "spike" with the K3 on
turn
on, I also use powered external speakers, M Audio AV40's. I have a master kill
switch
that kills the shack with the exception of lights and clock. Turn on of the
master switch
and having left the accessories on was not the way to go. Some still come on
with the
"big" switch but the sequence of Big switch, Astron 13 volt PS, K3 & P3, and
then the
external powered speakers while not fixing the problem effectively buries it.
Use the
same in reverse at shutdown.

Changing the sequence may be a simple solution.

73,
Bob
K2TK

On 5/1/2012 2:31 PM, Mike K2MK wrote:

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John Ragle

Re: Turn on turn off transients

In reply to this post by Mike K2MK

Something seems wrong with your particular set-up. I have a K3/100 + P3,
and it makes no audio sounds whatever when turned on or off. There is a
slight relay click, but it is not particularly noticeable.

John Ragle -- W1ZI

=====

On 5/1/2012 2:31 PM, Mike K2MK wrote:

> Hi Richard,
>
> Do you have the problem if you only use the internal speaker? Is your
> firmware up to date?
>
> 73,
> Mike K2MK
>
>
>
> Richard Thorpe-2 wrote
>> Is there any way to stop the tooth rattling turn on and turn off thump
>> from the K3? It can't be good to have a blast of DC go through my external
>> speakers I jump every time this happens.
>>
>> K6CG
>>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Turn-on-turn-off-transients-tp7517324p7517747.html
> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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>
>

--
Sent from my lovely old Dell XPS 420

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w8fn

Re: Turn on turn off transients

My K3 also "thumps" with power on and off transitions. In my case, I use
the SPKRS output to drive either a set of headphones (Yamaha CM-500 or
Sony MDR-7650) or the inputs of an old Radio Shack SA-155 amplifier,
depending on whether the headphones are plugged into my headphone box.
Looking at the schematic, it's no mystery what causes the thump. It's
the classic effect of having large value electrolytic coupling
capacitors at the output of the audio amp. The increase in value of the
coupling caps to extend LF response that was made fairly early in the
product cycle would certainly exacerbate this problem. My K3 has the
larger caps installed.

I wonder if the presence or lack of a transient pulse in individual
situations could be a function of the DC resistance (or LF response) of
the transducer connected to the audio output. In my case, the load
impedance presented to the output of the amplifier is considerably
higher than it would be if I used an 8 Ohm speaker. Higher load
resistance gives a larger RC time constant, hence a longer and more
objectionable pulse. Just a thought...

73...
Randy, W8FN

>>> Is there any way to stop the tooth rattling turn on and turn off thump
>>> from the K3? It can't be good to have a blast of DC go through my external
>>> speakers I jump every time this happens.
>>>
>>> K6CG
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wayne burdick

Re: Turn on turn off transients

Administrator

Randy Farmer wrote:

> My K3 also "thumps" with power on and off transitions....

This is an important part of the power-on self-test sequence. It
allows you, and others, to verify even at some distance from the radio
that your speaker(s), KIO3 interconnections, large electrolytic
coupling capacitors, AF amp, DSP, and power supply are all functioning
properly.

Wayne
N6KR

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Rob May-2

Re: Turn on turn off transients

In other words, it's not a bug, it's a feature. :)
Rob
NV5E

----------------------------------------

> From: [hidden email]
> To: [hidden email]
> Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 19:35:12 -0700
> CC: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Turn on turn off transients
>
> Randy Farmer wrote:
>
> > My K3 also "thumps" with power on and off transitions....
>
> This is an important part of the power-on self-test sequence. It
> allows you, and others, to verify even at some distance from the radio
> that your speaker(s), KIO3 interconnections, large electrolytic
> coupling capacitors, AF amp, DSP, and power supply are all functioning
> properly.
>
> Wayne
> N6KR
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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Phil Hystad-3

Re: Turn on turn off transients

In reply to this post by wayne burdick

And, that is what I thought the K3 thump feature was all about!

On May 1, 2012, at 7:35 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote:

> Randy Farmer wrote:
>
>> My K3 also "thumps" with power on and off transitions....
>
> This is an important part of the power-on self-test sequence. It
> allows you, and others, to verify even at some distance from the radio
> that your speaker(s), KIO3 interconnections, large electrolytic
> coupling capacitors, AF amp, DSP, and power supply are all functioning
> properly.
>
> Wayne
> N6KR
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
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Don Wilhelm-4

Re: Turn on turn off transients

In reply to this post by wayne burdick

Those "thumps" may be bothersome for those using powered speakers, I am
using unpowered speakers and while I hear ag the intensity couple of
"thumps" at turn on and turn off, neither are offensive and bothersome.
Perhaps you are increasing with your powered speakers

Do your powered speakers run from the same power supply that you K3 is
connected to? If so, I would recommend a test made to determine if the
computer D and CPU/memory is adequate to run that program,

73,
Don W3FPR .

10:35 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote:

> Randy Farmer wrote:
>
>> My K3 also "thumps" with power on and off transitions....
> This is an important part of the power-on self-test sequence. It
> allows you, and others, to verify even at some distance from the radio
> that your speaker(s), KIO3 interconnections, large electrolytic
> coupling capacitors, AF amp, DSP, and power supply are all functioning
> properly.
>
> Wayne
> N6KR
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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Guy, K2AV

Re: Turn on turn off transients

Probably of more consequence in the powered speakers is that they all are
targeted at music use on PC's. They are in tiny enclosures and have a huge
bass pre-emphasis to keep them from sounding "tinny". The pre-emphasis
will increase with increasingly lower frequency, likely meaning that
something with components around 5-20 Hz at the amplitude of turn-on pops
is hugely emphasized.

73, Guy.

On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 12:02 AM, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Those "thumps" may be bothersome for those using powered speakers, I am
> using unpowered speakers and while I hear ag the intensity couple of
> "thumps" at turn on and turn off, neither are offensive and bothersome.
> Perhaps you are increasing with your powered speakers
>
> Do your powered speakers run from the same power supply that you K3 is
> connected to? If so, I would recommend a test made to determine if the
> computer D and CPU/memory is adequate to run that program,
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR .
>
> 10:35 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote:
> > Randy Farmer wrote:
> >
> >> My K3 also "thumps" with power on and off transitions....
> > This is an important part of the power-on self-test sequence. It
> > allows you, and others, to verify even at some distance from the radio
> > that your speaker(s), KIO3 interconnections, large electrolytic
> > coupling capacitors, AF amp, DSP, and power supply are all functioning
> > properly.
> >
> > Wayne
> > N6KR
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
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> >
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Alan Bloom

Re: Turn on turn off transients

So the issue is that the "pop on turn-on" is much worse with powered
speakers than passive speakers? That's exactly what you'd expect if the
powered speakers have a higher input impedance. The series capacitor in
the K3 output along with the load impedance forms a high-pass filter.
The higher the impedance, the lower the cut-off frequency and the louder
the pop.

Has anyone tried connecting a 10 ohm (or so) resistor from the powered
speaker's input to ground? I bet that would reduce the pop
considerably.

Alan N1AL

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w8fn

Re: Turn on turn off transients

In reply to this post by Guy, K2AV

At the risk of resurrecting the "Speakers" thread, my experience is that
I've never been able to make any full range speaker, powered or
otherwise, sound acceptable on any amateur rig. No matter what I try, I
keep returning to my trusty pair of unpowered Motorola 2 way radio
speakers. The Moto guys knew what they were doing when they wrote the
specs for those.

Just for clarification, I was making an observation, not complaining,
about the power transient. Just like with any number of cheap stereo
amps I had before I got my good ones, I make it a practice to turn the
amp off/down before powering the K3 on or off. Works for me.

73...
Randy, W8FN

On 05/02/2012 05:23, Guy Olinger K2AV wrote:
> Probably of more consequence in the powered speakers is that they all are
> targeted at music use on PC's. They are in tiny enclosures and have a huge
> bass pre-emphasis to keep them from sounding "tinny". The pre-emphasis
> will increase with increasingly lower frequency, likely meaning that
> something with components around 5-20 Hz at the amplitude of turn-on pops
> is hugely emphasized.
>
> 73, Guy
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N0AZZ

Re: Turn on turn off transients

If I might add on other very good speaker choice they are Bendix/King
originally King Radio aircraft radios and radar they have a speaker about
the same size as the Motorola speaker and mount. Excellent audio and
response meant for communications use. I found several new ones recently at
a hamfest in boxes for $25 each only bought 2 should have bought more.

73,
Fred/N0AZZ

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Randy Farmer
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2012 8:02 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Turn on turn off transients

At the risk of resurrecting the "Speakers" thread, my experience is that
I've never been able to make any full range speaker, powered or otherwise,
sound acceptable on any amateur rig. No matter what I try, I keep returning
to my trusty pair of unpowered Motorola 2 way radio speakers. The Moto guys
knew what they were doing when they wrote the specs for those.

Just for clarification, I was making an observation, not complaining, about
the power transient. Just like with any number of cheap stereo amps I had
before I got my good ones, I make it a practice to turn the amp off/down
before powering the K3 on or off. Works for me.

73...
Randy, W8FN

On 05/02/2012 05:23, Guy Olinger K2AV wrote:
> Probably of more consequence in the powered speakers is that they all
> are targeted at music use on PC's. They are in tiny enclosures and
> have a huge bass pre-emphasis to keep them from sounding "tinny". The
> pre-emphasis will increase with increasingly lower frequency, likely
> meaning that something with components around 5-20 Hz at the amplitude
> of turn-on pops is hugely emphasized.
>
> 73, Guy
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