Elecraft

UK Re-seller

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Tom Boucher

UK Re-seller

The advantage is you can go to W&S, look at and try the rig, then purchase it direct from Elecraft!

73
Tom G3OLB
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David Christ

Re: UK Re-seller

This is considered bad form in the bicycle world and I assume it is
the same in the Ham world as well. It is unfair to the dealer who
has invested money in having stock on hand to for you take advantage
of his investment and then give him nothing in return. At least buy
something else from him even if small.

If you want a local shop to be there when you need something at a
moment's notice you need to spend money there at other times. If it
costs a little more, that is the price of keeping him in business. I
will admit that if the price difference is too great you are
justified in taking your business elsewhere.

Disclaimer: I was a shop owner once so this is a sore point.

David K0LUM

>The advantage is you can go to W&S, look at and try the rig, then
>purchase it direct from Elecraft!
>
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M0XDF

Re: UK Re-seller

Not exactly local - good 2 hours drive for me (in UK, that considered longish). however, I would expect that most UK hams have bought from this dealing at some time in their radio lives and probably quite a bit. We just don't seem to have 'local' shops like you guys do, although I do have another one only about 30 mins away. In self defence, I wouldn't need to try an Elecraft product first!
73 de David, M0XDF (K3 #174, P3 #108)

The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The second best
time is today. ~Chinese proverb~

On 30 May 2012, at 12:32, David Christ wrote:

Thomas Horsten

Re: UK Re-seller

In reply to this post by Tom Boucher

If I was to make the journey all the way to W&S I'd probably end up picking
up something. But I can't see anything wrong with going to look at
something in a shop and then buying it off the Internet, I do it all the
time, if they charge a lot more than online. If there's a small premium,
it's worth it for getting the item immediately, but if they are making a
30% profit or so, no thanks.

I don't think there's anything wrong about doing this at all. What I've
done successfully in the past though, is go to a store that has something I
want, confront them with the online price, and end up getting a good deal
from the shop (a bit more than the online price but getting the item
straight away).

73, Thomas M0TRN

On 30 May 2012 12:32, David Christ <[hidden email]> wrote:

> This is considered bad form in the bicycle world and I assume it is
> the same in the Ham world as well. It is unfair to the dealer who
> has invested money in having stock on hand to for you take advantage
> of his investment and then give him nothing in return. At least buy
> something else from him even if small.
>
> If you want a local shop to be there when you need something at a
> moment's notice you need to spend money there at other times. If it
> costs a little more, that is the price of keeping him in business. I
> will admit that if the price difference is too great you are
> justified in taking your business elsewhere.
>
> Disclaimer: I was a shop owner once so this is a sore point.
>
> David K0LUM
>
>
> >The advantage is you can go to W&S, look at and try the rig, then
> >purchase it direct from Elecraft!
> >
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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Kevin Cozens-2

Re: UK Re-seller

In reply to this post by David Christ

On 12-05-30 07:32 AM, someone wrote:
> The advantage is you can go to W&S, look at and try the rig, then
> purchase it direct from Elecraft!

The price going direct may appear to be less at first but you also need to
factor in the the higher cost to ship from overseas plus the import costs
(the VAT and any other fees charged by the UK government to bring items in).

An importer can distribute some of the costs across multiple units. Buying
local should be less cost for shipping and faster delivery. It is left to
the individual to decide if they want to buy local or direct from Elecraft.

--
Cheers!

Kevin.

http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"Nerds make the shiny things that distract
Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 | the mouth-breathers, and that's why we're
| powerful!"
#include <disclaimer/favourite> | --Chris Hardwick
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Pierfrancesco Caci

Re: UK Re-seller

>>>>> "Kevin" == Kevin Cozens <[hidden email]> writes:

Kevin> An importer can distribute some of the costs across multiple
Kevin> units. Buying
Kevin> local should be less cost for shipping and faster
Kevin> delivery. It is left to
Kevin> the individual to decide if they want to buy local or direct
Kevin> from Elecraft.

I would also like to add that any reseller in Europe must provide 2
years warranty, instead of the 1 year that Elecraft provide, and they
must be able to recover that cost somewhere.

--
Pierfrancesco Caci, ik5pvx

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KENT TRIMBLE

Re: UK Re-seller

In reply to this post by David Christ

> This is considered bad form in the bicycle world and I assume it is
> the same in the Ham world as well. It is unfair to the dealer who
> has invested money in having stock on hand to for you take advantage
> of his investment and then give him nothing in return. At least buy
> something else from him even if small.
>
> If you want a local shop to be there when you need something at a
> moment's notice you need to spend money there at other times. If it
> costs a little more, that is the price of keeping him in business. I
> will admit that if the price difference is too great you are
> justified in taking your business elsewhere.
>
> Disclaimer: I was a shop owner once so this is a sore point.
>
> David K0LUM
>
>
>> The advantage is you can go to W&S, look at and try the rig, then
>> purchase it direct from Elecraft!
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
>
>
> -----
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>
>

KENT TRIMBLE

INTERNET PURCHASING

In reply to this post by David Christ

David is absolutely right (frighteningly right) and unless people start
understanding the ramifications of what they are creating each time they
purchase something over the internet they will find themselves living in
communities as blighted as Detroit.

Internet sales are almost universally tax-free which means local
communities are deprived of revenue crucially needed to maintain quality
living for their citizens. Every time you think you save a buck by
ordering online, you actually hurt your local schools, hospitals, fire
departments, special learning centers, and all manner of charities.
Every locally owned business in your town, whether you live in a
metropolis or a village, contributes a sizable portion of its
sales-revenue to other people. Just outright gives it to them . . .
whether in the form of taxes or in the form of donations. The fewer
sales they have (because you have taken your business to anonymous
internet vendors), the less money they have available to give to
anybody. In the end, YOU suffer.

You want new uniforms for your kid's t-ball team? The first place you
go is not to your own pocket. Heaven forbid! No, the first place you
turn are to your local businessmen and businesswomen. You say to them,
"can you help us out" and suddenly you are taken aback when they reply,
"With what?" We have no discretionary funds this year. We're doing all
we can to keep our heads above water as it is. Sorry about the kids."

In the end, YOU suffer.

The people who sell you flowers through an 800 number or over the
internet will NEVER help you buy uniforms for your boys. They will
NEVER contribute to your local rescue squad's extrication equipment.
They don't give a darn about your community. They are faceless,
nameless, and do their banking in THEIR home town where, if they even do
so, they get credit for charitable donations in their name with YOUR
money! But not so for your local florist who is nickeled and dimed (by
you and me) month after month, year after year, for worthy hometown
projects, and who gratefully gives back to your community a portion of
the money you have spent with him. Likewise for every locally-owned store.

I buy nothing over the internet except those items I simply cannot buy
here in town. I WANT my local businesses to survive. I am HAPPY to pay
a few bucks more to make that happen. I am THRILLED when I see boarded
up store-front buildings . . . that are no longer boarded up.

73,

Kent K9ZTV

On 5/30/2012 6:32 AM, David Christ wrote:

> This is considered bad form in the bicycle world and I assume it is
> the same in the Ham world as well. It is unfair to the dealer who
> has invested money in having stock on hand to for you take advantage
> of his investment and then give him nothing in return. At least buy
> something else from him even if small.
>
> If you want a local shop to be there when you need something at a
> moment's notice you need to spend money there at other times. If it
> costs a little more, that is the price of keeping him in business. I
> will admit that if the price difference is too great you are
> justified in taking your business elsewhere.
>
> Disclaimer: I was a shop owner once so this is a sore point.
>
> David K0LUM
>
>
>> The advantage is you can go to W&S, look at and try the rig, then
>> purchase it direct from Elecraft!
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home:http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help:http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post:mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by:http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list:http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG -www.avg.com
> Version: 2012.0.2178 / Virus Database: 2425/5033 - Release Date: 05/30/12
>
>

David Gilbert

Re: INTERNET PURCHASING

I don't believe those are the same topic at all.

Dave AB7E

On 5/30/2012 12:26 PM, KENT TRIMBLE wrote:

> David is absolutely right (frighteningly right) and unless people start
> understanding the ramifications of what they are creating each time they
> purchase something over the internet they will find themselves living in
> communities as blighted as Detroit.
>
> Internet sales are almost universally tax-free which means local
> communities are deprived of revenue crucially needed to maintain quality
> living for their citizens. Every time you think you save a buck by
> ordering online, you actually hurt your local schools, hospitals, fire
> departments, special learning centers, and all manner of charities.
> Every locally owned business in your town, whether you live in a
> metropolis or a village, contributes a sizable portion of its
> sales-revenue to other people. Just outright gives it to them . . .
> whether in the form of taxes or in the form of donations. The fewer
> sales they have (because you have taken your business to anonymous
> internet vendors), the less money they have available to give to
> anybody. In the end, YOU suffer.
>
> You want new uniforms for your kid's t-ball team? The first place you
> go is not to your own pocket. Heaven forbid! No, the first place you
> turn are to your local businessmen and businesswomen. You say to them,
> "can you help us out" and suddenly you are taken aback when they reply,
> "With what?" We have no discretionary funds this year. We're doing all
> we can to keep our heads above water as it is. Sorry about the kids."
>
> In the end, YOU suffer.
>
> The people who sell you flowers through an 800 number or over the
> internet will NEVER help you buy uniforms for your boys. They will
> NEVER contribute to your local rescue squad's extrication equipment.
> They don't give a darn about your community. They are faceless,
> nameless, and do their banking in THEIR home town where, if they even do
> so, they get credit for charitable donations in their name with YOUR
> money! But not so for your local florist who is nickeled and dimed (by
> you and me) month after month, year after year, for worthy hometown
> projects, and who gratefully gives back to your community a portion of
> the money you have spent with him. Likewise for every locally-owned store.
>
> I buy nothing over the internet except those items I simply cannot buy
> here in town. I WANT my local businesses to survive. I am HAPPY to pay
> a few bucks more to make that happen. I am THRILLED when I see boarded
> up store-front buildings . . . that are no longer boarded up.
>
> 73,
>
> Kent K9ZTV
>
>
>
>
> On 5/30/2012 6:32 AM, David Christ wrote:
>> This is considered bad form in the bicycle world and I assume it is
>> the same in the Ham world as well. It is unfair to the dealer who
>> has invested money in having stock on hand to for you take advantage
>> of his investment and then give him nothing in return. At least buy
>> something else from him even if small.
>>
>> If you want a local shop to be there when you need something at a
>> moment's notice you need to spend money there at other times. If it
>> costs a little more, that is the price of keeping him in business. I
>> will admit that if the price difference is too great you are
>> justified in taking your business elsewhere.
>>
>> Disclaimer: I was a shop owner once so this is a sore point.
>>
>> David K0LUM
>>
>>
>>> The advantage is you can go to W&S, look at and try the rig, then
>>> purchase it direct from Elecraft!
>>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home:http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help:http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post:mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by:http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list:http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
>>
>>
>> -----
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG -www.avg.com
>> Version: 2012.0.2178 / Virus Database: 2425/5033 - Release Date: 05/30/12
>>
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>
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>

Geoffrey Downs-3

Re: INTERNET PURCHASING

In reply to this post by KENT TRIMBLE

Dear Kent,

Internet sales are not tax free in the UK. Nor, I believe, in the rest of
the EU. We do not have local sales taxes in the UK but we pay national Value
Added Tax of 20% on purchases of all goods (with some exemptions) whether
from local businesses or from internet vendors - even on purchases direct
from from Elecraft. This is 20% of not only the purchase price but also the
shipping costs.

73 to all

Geoff
G3UCK

-----Original Message-----
From: KENT TRIMBLE
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2012 8:26 PM
Subject: [Elecraft] INTERNET PURCHASING

Internet sales are almost universally tax-free

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David Cutter

Re: INTERNET PURCHASING

In reply to this post by KENT TRIMBLE

We pay an awful lot of "tax" on imports from the USA

David
G3UNA

On 30/05/2012 19:26, KENT TRIMBLE wrote:

>
> Internet sales are almost universally tax-free which means local
> communities are deprived of revenue crucially needed to maintain quality
> living for their citizens. Every time you think you save a buck by
> ordering online, you actually hurt your local schools, hospitals, fire
> departments, special learning centers, and all manner of charities.
> Every locally owned business in your town, whether you live in a
> metropolis or a village, contributes a sizable portion of its
> sales-revenue to other people. Just outright gives it to them . . .
> whether in the form of taxes or in the form of donations. The fewer
> sales they have (because you have taken your business to anonymous
> internet vendors), the less money they have available to give to
> anybody. In the end, YOU suffer.
>
> In the end, YOU suffer.
> 73,
>
> Kent K9ZTV
>
>
>

Stephen G4SJP

Re: INTERNET PURCHASING

In reply to this post by Geoffrey Downs-3

And, I'm bound to say that it seems to hurt most when buying from
Elecraft! Some overseas purchases get in 'under the radar', including high
value items at times. What really hurts though, as Geoff has written, is
the fact that the UK government earns 20% of the shipping cost too! Other
EU buyers will have the same gripe. Which brings me back to an old topic
of shipping costs from Elecraft. I have bought quite a lot of stuff from
the USA over the years, and have even posted stuff home to the UK when I
have been in the USA, and it has never seemed that expensive to me. I have
raised this with Sales in the the past and have been told that it will
probably end up being cheaper to ship than the original figure quoted, but
that doesn't seem to happen in practice.

As an exercise this evening, I priced up buying a KX3 from QRP project in
Germany and compared it with the total cost of buying it direct. I have
done this sort of comparison before and found that the convenience of
buying from a european reseller comes at a premium, but since the exchange
rates have moved in recent weeks (and in my opinion only back to where the
pound:euro should be), it is now cheaper to buy the KX3 from Germany rather
than direct. How long that situation will last is anyone's guess!
Equally, whether the same will be said of Waters and Stanton's pricing
remains to be seen.

Finally, it has always seemed to me rather bizarre that someone buying
something in the USA from another state does not pay sales tax. So I have
every sympathy with the 'small town' shopkeeper losing sales. Personally,
so long as I don't think I'm being really ripped off, I will buy from the
local store every time. It's unfortunate that the sales tax system in the
US appears to discourage buying anything 'in state'.

73 Stephen G4SJP

On 30 May 2012 22:01, Geoffrey Downs <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Dear Kent,
>
> Internet sales are not tax free in the UK. Nor, I believe, in the rest of
> the EU. We do not have local sales taxes in the UK but we pay national
> Value
> Added Tax of 20% on purchases of all goods (with some exemptions) whether
> from local businesses or from internet vendors - even on purchases direct
> from from Elecraft. This is 20% of not only the purchase price but also the
> shipping costs.
>
> 73 to all
>
> Geoff
> G3UCK
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: KENT TRIMBLE
> Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2012 8:26 PM
> Subject: [Elecraft] INTERNET PURCHASING
>
> Internet sales are almost universally tax-free
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

Andy McMullin

Re: INTERNET PURCHASING

In reply to this post by Geoffrey Downs-3

And don't forget from the USA (or anywhere outside the EU) we also have to pay the Import duty first (on anything over a few dollars). The 20% is then charged on the lot, not just the original price but price plus shipping plus duty. The duty will depend upon how the item is categorised - which depends on the exact wording of the customs declaration. Word it badly and we pay loads!!

Then there's the rip off 'administration' charge from the postal company. That could easily be around $60 on top of everything else dependant upon which shipping company is used. And there's no choice - whoever the sender chose and whatever fees they paid, the shippers will add their cut.

Can add over $100 to a what seems to be a simple $150 order!!

Not that I'm bitter about what I've had to pay of course :-)

--
sent whilst mobile;
Andy, G8TQH

On 30 May 2012, at 22:01, "Geoffrey Downs" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Dear Kent,
>
> Internet sales are not tax free in the UK. Nor, I believe, in the rest of
> the EU. We do not have local sales taxes in the UK but we pay national Value
> Added Tax of 20% on purchases of all goods (with some exemptions) whether
> from local businesses or from internet vendors - even on purchases direct
> from from Elecraft. This is 20% of not only the purchase price but also the
> shipping costs.
>
> 73 to all
>
> Geoff
> G3UCK
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: KENT TRIMBLE
> Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2012 8:26 PM
> Subject: [Elecraft] INTERNET PURCHASING
>
> Internet sales are almost universally tax-free
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Tim Herrick

Re: INTERNET PURCHASING

In reply to this post by Geoffrey Downs-3

In the state of Ohio internet tax is required. The company may not charge it but it is up to you to pay it. Also if a company has a
presence in your state the tax will be taken out at the time of purchase. Also to the large extent, the schools are funded by
property taxes and taxes received from the lottery.

73,
Tim Herrick, KQ8M
Charter Member North Coast Contesters
[hidden email]

AR-Cluster V6 kq8m.no-ip.org
User Ports: 23, 7373 with local skimmer, 7374 without local skimmer
Server Ports: V6 3607, V4 Active 3605, V4 Passive 3606

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Geoffrey Downs
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2012 5:02 PM
To: KENT TRIMBLE; Elecraft Reflector
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] INTERNET PURCHASING

Dear Kent,

Internet sales are not tax free in the UK. Nor, I believe, in the rest of
the EU. We do not have local sales taxes in the UK but we pay national Value
Added Tax of 20% on purchases of all goods (with some exemptions) whether
from local businesses or from internet vendors - even on purchases direct
from from Elecraft. This is 20% of not only the purchase price but also the
shipping costs.

73 to all

Geoff
G3UCK

-----Original Message-----
From: KENT TRIMBLE
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2012 8:26 PM
Subject: [Elecraft] INTERNET PURCHASING

Internet sales are almost universally tax-free

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Gary Gregory

Re: INTERNET PURCHASING

In reply to this post by David Gilbert

*Folks,

Eric has stated on this reflector that customers will always have the right
to purchase direct should they choose to do so.

I think this is clear enough.

Whilst businesses provide a valuable service to your local community, there
are many of us (myself included) who are on a fixed income with little
discretionary income and when we see a price differential of 30% (more or
less) on an item costing 3K in our local currency it gives us pause to
think again before handing over the credit card.

Experience in VK has been less than encouraging over the past decade as the
dealerships here appear to not hold stock of spares for obvious reasons
(cost) and to my knowledge none of them are authorized to carry out
warranty repairs and the 'other' manufacturers do not allow warranty work
to be carried out by the owners or dealers without the risk of voiding
there factory warranty and this is also understandable. A call to your
in-country dealer will only result in your being told to contact the
manufacturer for all service/repair requirements.

In simple terms, they sell boxes and accessories in baggies or boxes and
that is the end of their responsibility, period!

Elecraft have for years ( and still do at this point) sell direct only to
VK and the number of transceivers and other products do sell well here and
they enjoy an enviable reputation for both quality and support. I saw this
first hand at a recent Hamfest where I was exhibiting the K-Line and had a
full K-Line on air connected to a triband Yagi and the positive comments
received were flattering to say the least.

Interestingly, the knowledge of Elecraft equipment by non-owners was high
given the number of Hams who spoke to myself and Jeff (VK4XA) and I hope
that in some way Jeff and I were able to generate further business for
Elecraft. We were both asked a couple of times if there was a dealer for
Elecraft or if we were a dealer and we explained that they simply had to go
on-line direct to purchase and I do not speak for Jeff but I personally did
not a single negative comment regarding this arrangement. I did not hear
anyone state they would only buy from an authorized dealer.

In VK we have been subjected to a war of words between factory authorized
dealers and parallel importers. (parallel importer meaning a business
importing equipment acquired from overseas new or used or unused/unopened).
These folks have staged this war of word on the internet advertising sites,
dealer advertisement in magazines and the list goes on. I think a lot of us
in VK have grown tired of this type of commentary and feel it is demeaning
and poor publicity for our hobby.

Currently the dealers in VK sell the JA manufacturers equipment and a lot
of the European and US manufactured amplifiers, antennas and accessories
including Ten Tec.

To the best of my knowledge Alpha do not have a VK dealer ( a quick check
failed to find one advertising Alpha amplifiers) and there maybe more but
my point is if manufacturers such as Elecraft, Alpha and any other quality
manufacturers decide to sell direct only, and dealers in VK continue to
sell other products then I see no need to shop locally over ordering direct
from Elecraft. If they had a dealer here, that dealer would not survive
alone selling Elecraft products, therefore they would be relying on all
sales from all manufacturers to keep their doors open and so I don't see
how Elecraft would benefit with increased sales.

To 'show' Elecraft products is simply a case of gettiing exhibits into as
many Hamfests as possible across VK and Elecraft have always shown a
willingness to assist owners in providing a display at their local hamfest
where those wanting to find out more about Elecraft products can chat with
a customer without the inevitable sales pitch driven by profit. Making
available a working product sure beats the dealers showing a plastic
covered box, not connected to anything. This was a common comment I had at
the Wyong hamfest this year and i will be hoping to attend both Wyong and
the other big hamfest in VK3 2 weeks prior to Wyong. This is of course
subject to approval from Elecraft...:-)

The point I am trying to make is that buying Elecraft products locally in
VK will most likely generate too few additional sales to warrant
considering due to the war of words and one upmanship tactics on display
daily here in VK. I know our cousins in ZL would be less than enthused with
having to jump through the hoops to deal with an existing ham radio dealer
here in VK.

Despite the hype, we do love our cousins across the pond, even though they
talk funny...:-)

The comments in the above email are mine and mine alone and I hope nobody
takes offense.

73's to all

Gary

*
On 31 May 2012 06:37, David Gilbert <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> I don't believe those are the same topic at all.
>
> Dave AB7E
>
>
> On 5/30/2012 12:26 PM, KENT TRIMBLE wrote:
> > David is absolutely right (frighteningly right) and unless people start
> > understanding the ramifications of what they are creating each time they
> > purchase something over the internet they will find themselves living in
> > communities as blighted as Detroit.
> >
> > Internet sales are almost universally tax-free which means local
> > communities are deprived of revenue crucially needed to maintain quality
> > living for their citizens. Every time you think you save a buck by
> > ordering online, you actually hurt your local schools, hospitals, fire
> > departments, special learning centers, and all manner of charities.
> > Every locally owned business in your town, whether you live in a
> > metropolis or a village, contributes a sizable portion of its
> > sales-revenue to other people. Just outright gives it to them . . .
> > whether in the form of taxes or in the form of donations. The fewer
> > sales they have (because you have taken your business to anonymous
> > internet vendors), the less money they have available to give to
> > anybody. In the end, YOU suffer.
> >
> > You want new uniforms for your kid's t-ball team? The first place you
> > go is not to your own pocket. Heaven forbid! No, the first place you
> > turn are to your local businessmen and businesswomen. You say to them,
> > "can you help us out" and suddenly you are taken aback when they reply,
> > "With what?" We have no discretionary funds this year. We're doing all
> > we can to keep our heads above water as it is. Sorry about the kids."
> >
> > In the end, YOU suffer.
> >
> > The people who sell you flowers through an 800 number or over the
> > internet will NEVER help you buy uniforms for your boys. They will
> > NEVER contribute to your local rescue squad's extrication equipment.
> > They don't give a darn about your community. They are faceless,
> > nameless, and do their banking in THEIR home town where, if they even do
> > so, they get credit for charitable donations in their name with YOUR
> > money! But not so for your local florist who is nickeled and dimed (by
> > you and me) month after month, year after year, for worthy hometown
> > projects, and who gratefully gives back to your community a portion of
> > the money you have spent with him. Likewise for every locally-owned
> store.
> >
> > I buy nothing over the internet except those items I simply cannot buy
> > here in town. I WANT my local businesses to survive. I am HAPPY to pay
> > a few bucks more to make that happen. I am THRILLED when I see boarded
> > up store-front buildings . . . that are no longer boarded up.
> >
> > 73,
> >
> > Kent K9ZTV
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 5/30/2012 6:32 AM, David Christ wrote:
> >> This is considered bad form in the bicycle world and I assume it is
> >> the same in the Ham world as well. It is unfair to the dealer who
> >> has invested money in having stock on hand to for you take advantage
> >> of his investment and then give him nothing in return. At least buy
> >> something else from him even if small.
> >>
> >> If you want a local shop to be there when you need something at a
> >> moment's notice you need to spend money there at other times. If it
> >> costs a little more, that is the price of keeping him in business. I
> >> will admit that if the price difference is too great you are
> >> justified in taking your business elsewhere.
> >>
> >> Disclaimer: I was a shop owner once so this is a sore point.
> >>
> >> David K0LUM
> >>
> >>
> >>> The advantage is you can go to W&S, look at and try the rig, then
> >>> purchase it direct from Elecraft!
> >>>
> >> ______________________________________________________________
> >> Elecraft mailing list
> >> Home:http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> >> Help:http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> >> Post:mailto:[hidden email]
> >>
> >> This list hosted by:http://www.qsl.net
> >> Please help support this email list:http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -----
> >> No virus found in this message.
> >> Checked by AVG -www.avg.com
> >> Version: 2012.0.2178 / Virus Database: 2425/5033 - Release Date:
> 05/30/12
> >>
> >>
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> >
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

--
Gary
VK4FD - Motorhome Mobile
Elecraft Equipment
K3 #679, KPA-500 #018 KAT-500#??
Living the dream!!!
______________________________________________________________
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N5GE-2

Re: INTERNET PURCHASING

In reply to this post by Stephen G4SJP

Stephen,

In the USA when you buy something from out of the state you live in, you only
save sales tax if the out of state vendor has no offices or outlets in your
state. For example, if you buy something direct from Microsoft you will pay
sales tax because they have offices in every state in the USA. However if you
buy from a VENDOR of their product and that vendor is not in your state, you
will pay no sales tax.

73,
Tom
Amateur Radio Operator N5GE
ARRL Lifetime Member
QCWA Lifetime Member

"The marvel of all history is the patience with which men and women
submit to burdens unnecessarily laid upon them by their governments."
-- George Washington --

On Wed, 30 May 2012 22:22:25 +0100, Stephen Prior <[hidden email]>
wrote:

[snip]
>Finally, it has always seemed to me rather bizarre that someone buying
>something in the USA from another state does not pay sales tax. So I have
>every sympathy with the 'small town' shopkeeper losing sales. Personally,
>so long as I don't think I'm being really ripped off, I will buy from the
>local store every time. It's unfortunate that the sales tax system in the
>US appears to discourage buying anything 'in state'.
>
>73 Stephen G4SJP
[snip]

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k.igor

Re: INTERNET PURCHASING

In reply to this post by KENT TRIMBLE

This reminds me about 25 years ago similar protests were sound when all drafting was switching to computers and hand drafters were unemployed and had to change profession. You cannot stop progress people. Local authorities have to find different ways to fund their services. Local florist may want to find other ways to do business, like, for example, sell over the internet as well. I live on the border with New Hampshire. NO sales tax , NO state income tax and surprisingly, they are doing rather well, in many ways better than we here in Massachusetts, with all these taxes and more...

Igor, N1YX

----- Original Message -----

From: "KENT TRIMBLE" <[hidden email]>
To: "Elecraft Reflector" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2012 3:26:11 PM
Subject: [Elecraft] INTERNET PURCHASING

David is absolutely right (frighteningly right) and unless people start
understanding the ramifications of what they are creating each time they
purchase something over the internet they will find themselves living in
communities as blighted as Detroit.

Internet sales are almost universally tax-free which means local
communities are deprived of revenue crucially needed to maintain quality
living for their citizens. Every time you think you save a buck by
ordering online, you actually hurt your local schools, hospitals, fire
departments, special learning centers, and all manner of charities.
Every locally owned business in your town, whether you live in a
metropolis or a village, contributes a sizable portion of its
sales-revenue to other people. Just outright gives it to them . . .
whether in the form of taxes or in the form of donations. The fewer
sales they have (because you have taken your business to anonymous
internet vendors), the less money they have available to give to
anybody. In the end, YOU suffer.

You want new uniforms for your kid's t-ball team? The first place you
go is not to your own pocket. Heaven forbid! No, the first place you
turn are to your local businessmen and businesswomen. You say to them,
"can you help us out" and suddenly you are taken aback when they reply,
"With what?" We have no discretionary funds this year. We're doing all
we can to keep our heads above water as it is. Sorry about the kids."

In the end, YOU suffer.

The people who sell you flowers through an 800 number or over the
internet will NEVER help you buy uniforms for your boys. They will
NEVER contribute to your local rescue squad's extrication equipment.
They don't give a darn about your community. They are faceless,
nameless, and do their banking in THEIR home town where, if they even do
so, they get credit for charitable donations in their name with YOUR
money! But not so for your local florist who is nickeled and dimed (by
you and me) month after month, year after year, for worthy hometown
projects, and who gratefully gives back to your community a portion of
the money you have spent with him. Likewise for every locally-owned store.

I buy nothing over the internet except those items I simply cannot buy
here in town. I WANT my local businesses to survive. I am HAPPY to pay
a few bucks more to make that happen. I am THRILLED when I see boarded
up store-front buildings . . . that are no longer boarded up.

73,

Kent K9ZTV

On 5/30/2012 6:32 AM, David Christ wrote:

> This is considered bad form in the bicycle world and I assume it is
> the same in the Ham world as well. It is unfair to the dealer who
> has invested money in having stock on hand to for you take advantage
> of his investment and then give him nothing in return. At least buy
> something else from him even if small.
>
> If you want a local shop to be there when you need something at a
> moment's notice you need to spend money there at other times. If it
> costs a little more, that is the price of keeping him in business. I
> will admit that if the price difference is too great you are
> justified in taking your business elsewhere.
>
> Disclaimer: I was a shop owner once so this is a sore point.
>
> David K0LUM
>
>
>> The advantage is you can go to W&S, look at and try the rig, then
>> purchase it direct from Elecraft!
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home:http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help:http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post:mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by:http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list:http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG -www.avg.com
> Version: 2012.0.2178 / Virus Database: 2425/5033 - Release Date: 05/30/12
>
>

______________________________________________________________
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Jim Low man

Re: UK Re-seller

In reply to this post by David Christ

I don't know how it is in the UK or the rest of Europe, but local
electronics
stores, much less those where amateur radio equipment is sold, have been
gone for many years. They have been replaced by national retailers like
HRO
and AES.

Back in the 50s and 60s, when I was growing up, we had a large, local
wholesale electronics store that would do business with hams and CBers
on a retail level. That's where I bought my first ham equipment,
including receiver and transmitter, antenna, coax, and other accessories.

Of course, they are gone now. I was surprised to learn recently that their
largest account was with General Motors. So, when the Buick factory
and several supporting factories in town closed, I suppose they did, too.

In 1975, when we moved to southern California, a friend and I would
drive toward Los Angeles and visit as many as four stores where ham
gear was sold. Today, pretty much there are two: Ham Radio Outlet
and Jun's. This, for the second-largest metropolitan area in the US.

Point of this long dissertation is - if you have a local dealer and want to
see it stay around, patronize it. Too many times, guys would go in and
look over the equipment, then call every toll-free number that they
could find, in order to get the lowest price or escape the sales tax.

73 de Jim - AD6CW

On 5/30/2012 4:32 AM, David Christ wrote:

Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ

Re: INTERNET PURCHASING [Thread Closed]

Administrator

In reply to this post by N5GE-2

This OT thread is now closed.

In general, please take political and national policy, tax and other
related topics to other reflectors for discussion.

73,

Eric
List Moderator
---
www.elecraft.com

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Jim Low man

Re: INTERNET PURCHASING

In reply to this post by KENT TRIMBLE

As far as general purchases, we try to support our smaller, "mom-and-pop"
retail stores wherever possible. As a result, we refuse to enter a
Wal-Mart
or K-Mart (other reasons apply here, as well).

But, except for two small electronics stores and some Radio Shack stores,
I can get nothing locally other than small items.

I will have to give AES credit for fast service. Yesterday I ordered a GAP
Titan DX antenna, and I came home from lunch to find it waiting on the
front porch. It must have been in stock in their Las Vegas store and
shipped the same day. From here, Las Vegas is about 240 miles. Also,
if I order from HRO, and the item is in stock at the Anaheim store about
50 miles from here, it will be here the next business day.

72/73 de Jim - AD6CW

On 5/30/2012 12:26 PM, KENT TRIMBLE wrote:
> I buy nothing over the internet except those items I simply cannot buy
> here in town. I WANT my local businesses to survive. I am HAPPY to pay
> a few bucks more to make that happen. I am THRILLED when I see boarded
> up store-front buildings . . . that are no longer boarded up.
>
> 73,
>
> Kent K9ZTV
>
______________________________________________________________
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