Using K3's Pre-amp
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I'm just curious how others are using (or not using) the K3's pre-amp. I
have found few, if any, situations where I felt the pre-amp really improved a signal vs. the additional noise that is associated with turning on the pre-amp. It takes a lot of balancing, in my view, between the RF gain and the AF gain to enhance a weaker signal, and I don't find the pre-amp to be all that helpful. Having said that, I'm pretty happy with the results I get w/o using the pre-amp. Also, signals on the K3 w/o pre-amp compare very favorably to signals on my Orion II with the pre-amp on. The K3 still seems to hear just a tad bit better. So, I'm wondering if I'm missing some other trick or setting that would make the K3's pre-amp more beneficial. I can tell you that 90% or more of the time I tend to have my RF gain at 50% or less (at about 12 o'clock), and make very slight adjustments of the RF gain from there. I suppose much of this might depend on one's noise floor. FWIW, mine is about S4. Dave W7AQK _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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Dave,
The noise floor is your entire problem :) It's a fact that the preamp improves the MDS of the K3 by at least several dB. But if your noise floor is S4, it will do not good at all, because all lower signals are already masked by the noise. I think you'd be a candidate for some sort of high-Q, low-noise, directional receiving antenna. In that case you would most definitely benefit from the preamp! (You'd need the RX ANT IN jack, supplied with the KXV3 option.) May I ask what's causing all that noise in your location? tnx Wayne N6KR On Jan 9, 2009, at 8:43 PM, Dave Yarnes wrote: > I'm just curious how others are using (or not using) the K3's pre-amp. > I > have found few, if any, situations where I felt the pre-amp really > improved > a signal vs. the additional noise that is associated with turning on > the > pre-amp. It takes a lot of balancing, in my view, between the RF gain > and > the AF gain to enhance a weaker signal, and I don't find the pre-amp > to be > all that helpful. Having said that, I'm pretty happy with the results > I get > w/o using the pre-amp. Also, signals on the K3 w/o pre-amp compare > very > favorably to signals on my Orion II with the pre-amp on. The K3 still > seems > to hear just a tad bit better. So, I'm wondering if I'm missing some > other > trick or setting that would make the K3's pre-amp more beneficial. I > can > tell you that 90% or more of the time I tend to have my RF gain at 50% > or > less (at about 12 o'clock), and make very slight adjustments of the RF > gain > from there. I suppose much of this might depend on one's noise floor. > FWIW, mine is about S4. > > Dave W7AQK > > > _______________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Post to: [hidden email] > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com > > --- http://www.elecraft.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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To add a few numbers to Wayne's comment, S4 on a calibrated S-meter (S9=50uV and 6 dB/S-unit) should be about -103 dBm. The noise floor (MDS) of the K3 with preamp off/on is 130/138 dBm (500 Hz BW). As Wayne said, the preamp will do absolutely no good until you reduce the external noise by 27/35 dB. In fact you could operate with your attenuator on and wouldn't miss weak signals since the K3's noise floor would still be ~20 dB below your external noise. 73, Bill |
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In reply to this post by w7aqk
Dave,
Whether you need the preamp will depend on your antenna. Without involving any numbers, a quick test is to disconnect and then reconnect the antenna. If the noise level increases when the antenna is connected, the radio has ample front end gain (in fact it may be too much - try it with the attenuator in too). Your noise level does seem very high, so as Wayne suggested, you may want to try a low gain directional receiving antenna should you want to work the weak ones. There was one featured in QST for December 2008. Alternately, snoop out the neighborhood for the noise source and fix it if you can. 73, Don W3FPR Dave Yarnes wrote: > I'm just curious how others are using (or not using) the K3's pre-amp. I > have found few, if any, situations where I felt the pre-amp really improved > a signal vs. the additional noise that is associated with turning on the > pre-amp. It takes a lot of balancing, in my view, between the RF gain and > the AF gain to enhance a weaker signal, and I don't find the pre-amp to be > all that helpful. Having said that, I'm pretty happy with the results I get > w/o using the pre-amp. Also, signals on the K3 w/o pre-amp compare very > favorably to signals on my Orion II with the pre-amp on. The K3 still seems > to hear just a tad bit better. So, I'm wondering if I'm missing some other > trick or setting that would make the K3's pre-amp more beneficial. I can > tell you that 90% or more of the time I tend to have my RF gain at 50% or > less (at about 12 o'clock), and make very slight adjustments of the RF gain > from there. I suppose much of this might depend on one's noise floor. > FWIW, mine is about S4. > > Dave W7AQK > > > _______________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Post to: [hidden email] > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.5/1885 - Release Date: 1/9/2009 7:59 PM > > Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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Thanks for the reminder about this article Don. I just re-read it this
morning. Looks like an easy and cheap project to do. If you QRZ my call, you'll see I'm smack dab in the middle of the city and the noise here is pretty rough. An antenna like this permanently wired into the RX antenna jack would be a big improvement for me I think. I've already got a tripod and rotor on the roof so I'll look into getting one of these up if/when the snow ever stops.... Thanks again, W9PDS Don Wilhelm wrote: > Dave, > > Whether you need the preamp will depend on your antenna. > Without involving any numbers, a quick test is to disconnect and then > reconnect the antenna. If the noise level increases when the antenna is > connected, the radio has ample front end gain (in fact it may be too > much - try it with the attenuator in too). > > Your noise level does seem very high, so as Wayne suggested, you may > want to try a low gain directional receiving antenna should you want to > work the weak ones. There was one featured in QST for December 2008. > Alternately, snoop out the neighborhood for the noise source and fix it > if you can. > > 73, > Don W3FPR _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by w7aqk
Is Dave's S4 background band noise level unusual or should this be
considered normal? In my first tier suburban location I typically see S2 to S3 background noise on the 20 to 40 meter bands using cw receive bandwidths of 500 KKz. The first figure and table in the following link (http://www.ve2si.ca/2-points.htm) shows that for suburban locations, typical background noise levels at a 2.4 KHz receiver bandwidth are about -100 dBm at 14 MHz, which is between S4 and S5 (these background noise estimates are based on ITU standards). Do other suburbanites see much lower noise levels than these? Steve N9SZ K3 SN 1672 Wayne said: >May I ask what's causing all that noise in your location? _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-4
Hi Everyone,
I don't think this is out of line unless Dave is on CW mode using narrow BWs? His setup is like mind, it is in the city and he has nearby neighbors. My antenna is a large inverted 75m Delta loop too low to the ground and I have S-3 to S-5 noise using 2.8 Khz BW with no pre-amp. At 400 hz it drops down to S1. Again pre-amp off. Tons of noise here, but this is the quietest antenna I have used. This was just checked on 40m tonight. 73 de jay/w5jay.. > Dave, > > Whether you need the preamp will depend on your antenna. > Without involving any numbers, a quick test is to disconnect and then > reconnect the antenna. If the noise level increases when the antenna is > connected, the radio has ample front end gain (in fact it may be too > much - try it with the attenuator in too). > > Your noise level does seem very high, so as Wayne suggested, you may > want to try a low gain directional receiving antenna should you want to > work the weak ones. There was one featured in QST for December 2008. > Alternately, snoop out the neighborhood for the noise source and fix it > if you can. > > 73, > Don W3FPR > > Dave Yarnes wrote: >> I'm just curious how others are using (or not using) the K3's pre-amp. I >> have found few, if any, situations where I felt the pre-amp really >> improved >> a signal vs. the additional noise that is associated with turning on the >> pre-amp. It takes a lot of balancing, in my view, between the RF gain >> and >> the AF gain to enhance a weaker signal, and I don't find the pre-amp to >> be >> all that helpful. Having said that, I'm pretty happy with the results I >> get >> w/o using the pre-amp. Also, signals on the K3 w/o pre-amp compare very >> favorably to signals on my Orion II with the pre-amp on. The K3 still >> seems >> to hear just a tad bit better. So, I'm wondering if I'm missing some >> other >> trick or setting that would make the K3's pre-amp more beneficial. I can >> tell you that 90% or more of the time I tend to have my RF gain at 50% or >> less (at about 12 o'clock), and make very slight adjustments of the RF >> gain >> from there. I suppose much of this might depend on one's noise floor. >> FWIW, mine is about S4. >> >> Dave W7AQK >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Post to: [hidden email] >> You must be a subscriber to post to the list. >> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): >> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm >> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >> Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.5/1885 - Release Date: 1/9/2009 >> 7:59 PM >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Post to: [hidden email] > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by wayne burdick
> -----Original Message----- > From: [hidden email] [mailto:elecraft- > [hidden email]] On Behalf Of wayne burdick > Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 8:53 PM > To: Dave Yarnes > Cc: [hidden email] > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Using K3's Pre-amp > > The noise floor is your entire problem :) It's a fact that the preamp > improves the MDS of the K3 by at least several dB. But if your noise > floor is S4, it will do not good at all, because all lower signals are > already masked by the noise. I just ran a noise experiment at my QTH yesterday. My typical noise is s7.0 S6.5 s7.5 on 80m, 40m & 20m respectively. With every circuit in the house off, except the one the radio is on, and with only the power supply and the radio on that one circuit the noise is s4.0 S4.75 s5.0. I turned on circuits one at a time and recorded to S level jump for each. The 'home entertainment center' seems to be the biggest contributor so I'll start there. Now I just need to figure out how the switch off the neighborhood transformers and silence my neighbors! :) I have some fairly large power lines across the street. Are they usually strong contributors to noise? You can see the resulting data here: http://www.ka7ark.com/20080111QTHnoise/pics.html Adam - ka7ark _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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Adam,
While power lines can be a noise source - cracked insulators, dusty insulators, arcing transformers, etc. - those power lines can pick up noise generated by some other source and carry it long distances. A good way to track down noise sources is with a portable AM radio. Some have loop antennas that are very responsive to orientation, so looking for the null in the noise pattern can often help lead you to the source. 73, Don W3FPR Adam Koczarski wrote: > > I have some fairly large power lines across the street. Are they usually > strong contributors to noise? > > You can see the resulting data here: > http://www.ka7ark.com/20080111QTHnoise/pics.html > > > Adam - ka7ark > > > Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by w7aqk
Adam, If you suspect a local source for the noise, you might consider making an mp3 recording of it. There are some hams out there who have a LOT of painful experience chasing down noise sources and have become pretty good at identifying the sounds. I'm sure there are some of those experts here on the Elecraft reflector, as well as on the Contesting reflector. You could upload the mp3 file to your website and forward the links. 73, Dave AB7E
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In reply to this post by Adam Koczarski
Hi Adam,
As Wayne pointed out, and as I suspected, I was kind of beating a dead horse due to the noise level I have. I have done something similar to what you did--turning off various circuits in the house to see if much of the noise disappeared. It didn't seem to make much difference here, but I need to check this out more effectively. I suspect some of my problem could be due to using a vertical antenna, which tends to pick up noise more easily than a horizontal antenna might. I hope to try some comparative testing using some sort of dipole to see if things improve. Power lines are always a suspect! I have some too that aren't all that far away. Our neighborhood had underground utilities, but I live near the periphery, and there are poles that run along the edge of the development. I'll be doing some RF sniffing around there! Your noise level does seem quite high, so I feel certain you will find some culprits if you can do some additional checking around your location. You might want to give your local power company a call as well, if you suspect any of your noise is coming from those poles. Dave W7AQK ----- Original Message ----- From: "Adam Koczarski" <[hidden email]> To: <[hidden email]> Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 8:47 AM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Using K3's Pre-amp > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [hidden email] [mailto:elecraft- >> [hidden email]] On Behalf Of wayne burdick >> Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 8:53 PM >> To: Dave Yarnes >> Cc: [hidden email] >> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Using K3's Pre-amp >> >> The noise floor is your entire problem :) It's a fact that the preamp >> improves the MDS of the K3 by at least several dB. But if your noise >> floor is S4, it will do not good at all, because all lower signals are >> already masked by the noise. > > I just ran a noise experiment at my QTH yesterday. My typical noise is > s7.0 > S6.5 s7.5 on 80m, 40m & 20m respectively. With every circuit in the house > off, except the one the radio is on, and with only the power supply and > the > radio on that one circuit the noise is s4.0 S4.75 s5.0. I turned on > circuits > one at a time and recorded to S level jump for each. The 'home > entertainment > center' seems to be the biggest contributor so I'll start there. Now I > just > need to figure out how the switch off the neighborhood transformers and > silence my neighbors! :) > > I have some fairly large power lines across the street. Are they usually > strong contributors to noise? > > You can see the resulting data here: > http://www.ka7ark.com/20080111QTHnoise/pics.html > > > Adam - ka7ark > > > _______________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Post to: [hidden email] > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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> -----Original Message----- > From: dyarnes [mailto:[hidden email]] > Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 9:04 AM > To: Adam Koczarski; [hidden email] > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Using K3's Pre-amp > > Hi Adam, > > Power lines are always a suspect! I have some too that aren't all that > far > away. Our neighborhood had underground utilities, but I live near the > periphery, and there are poles that run along the edge of the > development. > I'll be doing some RF sniffing around there! > on my front property line. The antennas are in the back of the house. There is a parkway below our back yard with above ground power lines. The dipoles are for the most part perpendicular to the power lines. The noise is pretty constant, not a lot of popping. I'll try and attend this weekend's local HAM meeting and see if there is anyone there with local experience in snooping. I haven't a clue on how to do this. I <could> call the power company but wouldn't even know what to tell them at this point. I'm not sure they just send someone out if you complain about generalized noise. Adam - ka7ark _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by dave-11
A great source of information on RFI is found on our sister reflector
Contesting - RFI http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/rfi You can sign up or peruse the already published info. It's helped me overcome some real RFI difficulties and I've offered some help there myself. Like this Elecraft reflector, it's participant intensive. Gary KA1J > Adam, > > If you suspect a local source for the noise, you might consider > making an mp3 recording of it. There are some hams out there who > have a LOT of painful experience chasing down noise sources and have > become pretty good at identifying the sounds. I'm sure there are > some of those experts here on the Elecraft reflector, as well as on > the Contesting reflector. You could upload the mp3 file to your > website and forward the links. > > 73, > Dave AB7E > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Using K3's Pre-amp > From: "Adam Koczarski" <[hidden email]> > Date: Mon, January 12, 2009 8:47 am > To: <[hidden email]> > > > I just ran a noise experiment at my QTH yesterday. My typical noise > is s7.0 > S6.5 s7.5 on 80m, 40m & 20m respectively. With every circuit in the > house > off, except the one the radio is on, and with only the power supply > and the > radio on that one circuit the noise is s4.0 S4.75 s5.0. I turned on > circuits > one at a time and recorded to S level jump for each. The 'home > entertainment > center' seems to be the biggest contributor so I'll start there. Now > I just > need to figure out how the switch off the neighborhood transformers > and > silence my neighbors! :) > > I have some fairly large power lines across the street. Are they > usually > strong contributors to noise? > > You can see the resulting data here: > http://www.ka7ark.com/20080111QTHnoise/pics.html > > > Adam - ka7ark > > _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
Re: RFI - Was: Using K3's Pre-amp
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> -----Original Message----- > From: [hidden email] [mailto:elecraft- > [hidden email]] On Behalf Of Gary Smith > Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 10:43 AM > To: [hidden email] > Subject: [Elecraft] RFI - Was: Using K3's Pre-amp > > A great source of information on RFI is found on our sister reflector > Contesting - RFI > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/rfi > Adam - ka7ark _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Adam Koczarski
Adam,
Interesting information, thank you for sharing. That's exactly the way to do it. I know I am getting heavy power line noise and know approximately where mine is coming from as I hear it when there is dense fog and I am out for my daily run. I will be zeroing back in on these poor insulators come spring and the fog returns. I thought nothing of it before, but it has become worse. My neighbor across the street has a horse and an electric fence. He knows how much I appreciate him keeping the grass cut, but now the moisture and snow are near the insulators is causing the electric fence pulse which is not cured by any of the K3 settings, it also is not cured by any other radios in the shack either. (How old can the horse get before passing?!%^$#@) 73, Bill K9YEQ K2 #35; KX1 #35; K3 #1744; mini mods -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Adam Koczarski Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 9:47 AM To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Using K3's Pre-amp > -----Original Message----- > From: [hidden email] [mailto:elecraft- > [hidden email]] On Behalf Of wayne burdick > Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 8:53 PM > To: Dave Yarnes [BJ] ........... all, because all lower signals are > already masked by the noise. I just ran a noise experiment at my QTH yesterday. My typical noise is s7.0 S6.5 s7.5 on 80m, 40m & 20m respectively. With every circuit in the house off, except the one the radio is on, and with only the power supply and the radio on that one circuit the noise is s4.0 S4.75 s5.0. I turned on circuits one at a time and recorded to S level jump for each. The 'home entertainment center' seems to be the biggest contributor so I'll start there. Now I just need to figure out how the switch off the neighborhood transformers and silence my neighbors! :) I have some fairly large power lines across the street. Are they usually strong contributors to noise? You can see the resulting data here: http://www.ka7ark.com/20080111QTHnoise/pics.html Adam - ka7ark _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Adam Koczarski
I have underground as well, but doesn't affect the radiation from above
ground utilities which are not far enough away to prevent interference. 73, Bill K9YEQ K2 #35; KX1 #35; K3 #1744; mini mods -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Adam Koczarski Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 11:59 AM To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Using K3's Pre-amp > -----Original Message----- > From: dyarnes [mailto:[hidden email]] > Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 9:04 AM > To: Adam Koczarski; [hidden email] > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Using K3's Pre-amp > > Hi Adam, > > Power lines are always a suspect! I have some too that aren't all that > far > away. Our neighborhood had underground utilities, but I live near the > periphery, and there are poles that run along the edge of the > development. > I'll be doing some RF sniffing around there! > on my front property line. The antennas are in the back of the house. There is a parkway below our back yard with above ground power lines. The dipoles are for the most part perpendicular to the power lines. The noise is pretty constant, not a lot of popping. I'll try and attend this weekend's local HAM meeting and see if there is anyone there with local experience in snooping. I haven't a clue on how to do this. I <could> call the power company but wouldn't even know what to tell them at this point. I'm not sure they just send someone out if you complain about generalized noise. Adam - ka7ark _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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