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Using N1MM to Key a K3 with no outboard keyer

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Edward A. Dauer

Using N1MM to Key a K3 with no outboard keyer

The following may test our commitment to the idea that there is no such thing as a stupid question . . . .

I finally got around to setting up my N1MM logger to key my transmitters without having to use a K1EL or any other keyer -- just the KUSB cable directly from the PC into the rig.

After hours of frustrating failure, by lucky accident I came across a post on the Internet that gave examples for programming the Fn keys, using N1MM to key a KX3. Each command line contains the string CATA1ASC before the command KY. Without the CATA1ASC, hitting the Fn key does nothing. With it, and with the standard KY programming command, it works -- on the KX3 at least. My K3 is at my other QTH so I haven't tried this on that rig yet, but here's my question -- what is the CATA1ASC for? I did a word search in both the KX3 and the N1MM manuals, and in the KX3 Programmer's Guide, and I could find no mention of the CATA1ASC string. Had I not found the examples on the Internet accidentally I would still be trying to make this work with no success.

So can someone help me understand what it's about and why I didn't see it in any of the manuals? Is it something in Windows 10?

Thanks,

Ted, KN1CBR
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Don Wilhelm

Re: Using N1MM to Key a K3 with no outboard keyer

Ted,

That is something in N1MM which effectively tell the N1MM software to
send the ASCII string which follows through the CAT port.

You may find more information in the N1MM help file or forums.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 8/1/2018 7:32 PM, Dauer, Edward wrote:
> The following may test our commitment to the idea that there is no such thing as a stupid question . . . .
>
> I finally got around to setting up my N1MM logger to key my transmitters without having to use a K1EL or any other keyer -- just the KUSB cable directly from the PC into the rig.
>
> After hours of frustrating failure, by lucky accident I came across a post on the Internet that gave examples for programming the Fn keys, using N1MM to key a KX3. Each command line contains the string CATA1ASC before the command KY. Without the CATA1ASC, hitting the Fn key does nothing. With it, and with the standard KY programming command, it works -- on the KX3 at least. My K3 is at my other QTH so I haven't tried this on that rig yet, but here's my question -- what is the CATA1ASC for? I did a word search in both the KX3 and the N1MM manuals, and in the KX3 Programmer's Guide, and I could find no mention of the CATA1ASC string. Had I not found the examples on the Internet accidentally I would still be trying to make this work with no success.
>
> So can someone help me understand what it's about and why I didn't see it in any of the manuals? Is it something in Windows 10?
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Ted Bryant

Re: Using N1MM to Key a K3 with no outboard keyer

In reply to this post by Edward A. Dauer

You do not need the "CATA1ASC " commands to key the K3/K3s via the CAT
control link.

Look here:
<http://n1mmplus.hamdocs.com/tiki-index.php?page=Supported+Radios&structure=
N1MM+Logger+Documentation#K3_and_K3S>

The K3 can accept PTT switching from several sources, including: a keying
circuit from a serial or parallel port to the K3's PTT IN; PTT from a
Winkeyer; RTS (pin 7) on the radio control RS232 port; using "Radio PTT via
command"; or VOX
It is better not to use multiple methods of PTT control in parallel; in some
cases, and depending on which version of firmware is installed, doing so can
leave a K3 stuck in transmit at the end of function-key messages. You should
not check "Radio PTT via command" if you are using RTS on the radio control
port, or any other hardware PTT connection, to control PTT
** Procedure for configuring RTS on the radio control RS232 port: Starting
with the K3's CONFIG:PTT-KEY set to OFF-OFF, check the CW/Other box beside
the radio control port in the Configurer and configure N1MM+ to control PTT
from RTS on the radio control port (Port setup), and then set the K3's
CONFIG:PTT-KEY to RTS-OFF (or RTS-DTR if you are also using CW via DTR)
Warning: leaving RTS set to Always on with the K3's CONFIG:PTT-KEY set to
RTS-OFF or RTS-DTR will cause the K3 to be permanently in transmit

The K3 accepts CW keying on DTR (pin 4) of the same COM port you're using to
control the K3. This method can be used when other methods (e.g. Winkeyer or
a keying circuit on a separate COM or LPT port) are not available
CW and radio control on the same COM port do NOT work in SO2R mode
CW on DTR does NOT work with some USB-to-serial adapters (e.g. Prolific
chipset - may depend on the driver version)
CW on DTR may be missing some capabilities and may have other undesired side
effects - use at your own risk
** Procedure: Starting with the K3's CONFIG:PTT-KEY set to OFF-OFF, check
the CW/Other box beside the radio control port in the Configurer and
configure N1MM+ to use DTR for CW on that port; set the K3's CONFIG:PTT-KEY
to OFF-DTR (or RTS-DTR if you are also using PTT via RTS)
Warning: leaving DTR set to Always on with the K3's CONFIG:PTT-KEY set to
OFF-DTR or RTS-DTR will cause a permanent "key-down" condition

73, Ted W4NZ

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Dauer, Edward
Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2018 7:33 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Elecraft] Using N1MM to Key a K3 with no outboard keyer

The following may test our commitment to the idea that there is no such
thing as a stupid question . . . .

I finally got around to setting up my N1MM logger to key my transmitters
without having to use a K1EL or any other keyer -- just the KUSB cable
directly from the PC into the rig.

After hours of frustrating failure, by lucky accident I came across a post
on the Internet that gave examples for programming the Fn keys, using N1MM
to key a KX3. Each command line contains the string CATA1ASC before the
command KY. Without the CATA1ASC, hitting the Fn key does nothing. With
it, and with the standard KY programming command, it works -- on the KX3 at
least. My K3 is at my other QTH so I haven't tried this on that rig yet,
but here's my question -- what is the CATA1ASC for? I did a word search in
both the KX3 and the N1MM manuals, and in the KX3 Programmer's Guide, and I
could find no mention of the CATA1ASC string. Had I not found the examples
on the Internet accidentally I would still be trying to make this work with
no success.

So can someone help me understand what it's about and why I didn't see it in
any of the manuals? Is it something in Windows 10?

Thanks,

Ted, KN1CBR

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Don Wilhelm

Re: Using N1MM to Key a K3 with no outboard keyer

Ted and all,

I believe you do need the CATA1ASC to send ASCII strings to the
transceiver for keying (not PTT) for CW keying.

The K3 with VOX set ON will key (and transmit CW) without asserting PTT.
It is like "touch the key to transmit".

Yes, other methods such as keying via DTR or RTS are possible as well.

Using multiple methods of PTT can cause the K3 to lock in transmit.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 8/1/2018 8:35 PM, Ted Bryant wrote:

> You do not need the "CATA1ASC " commands to key the K3/K3s via the CAT
> control link.
>
> Look here:
> <http://n1mmplus.hamdocs.com/tiki-index.php?page=Supported+Radios&structure=
> N1MM+Logger+Documentation#K3_and_K3S>
>
> The K3 can accept PTT switching from several sources, including: a keying
> circuit from a serial or parallel port to the K3's PTT IN; PTT from a
> Winkeyer; RTS (pin 7) on the radio control RS232 port; using "Radio PTT via
> command"; or VOX
> It is better not to use multiple methods of PTT control in parallel; in some
> cases, and depending on which version of firmware is installed, doing so can
> leave a K3 stuck in transmit at the end of function-key messages. You should
> not check "Radio PTT via command" if you are using RTS on the radio control
> port, or any other hardware PTT connection, to control PTT
> ** Procedure for configuring RTS on the radio control RS232 port: Starting
> with the K3's CONFIG:PTT-KEY set to OFF-OFF, check the CW/Other box beside
> the radio control port in the Configurer and configure N1MM+ to control PTT
> from RTS on the radio control port (Port setup), and then set the K3's
> CONFIG:PTT-KEY to RTS-OFF (or RTS-DTR if you are also using CW via DTR)
> Warning: leaving RTS set to Always on with the K3's CONFIG:PTT-KEY set to
> RTS-OFF or RTS-DTR will cause the K3 to be permanently in transmit
>
> The K3 accepts CW keying on DTR (pin 4) of the same COM port you're using to
> control the K3. This method can be used when other methods (e.g. Winkeyer or
> a keying circuit on a separate COM or LPT port) are not available
> CW and radio control on the same COM port do NOT work in SO2R mode
> CW on DTR does NOT work with some USB-to-serial adapters (e.g. Prolific
> chipset - may depend on the driver version)
> CW on DTR may be missing some capabilities and may have other undesired side
> effects - use at your own risk
> ** Procedure: Starting with the K3's CONFIG:PTT-KEY set to OFF-OFF, check
> the CW/Other box beside the radio control port in the Configurer and
> configure N1MM+ to use DTR for CW on that port; set the K3's CONFIG:PTT-KEY
> to OFF-DTR (or RTS-DTR if you are also using PTT via RTS)
> Warning: leaving DTR set to Always on with the K3's CONFIG:PTT-KEY set to
> OFF-DTR or RTS-DTR will cause a permanent "key-down" condition

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Richard Ferch-2

Re: Using N1MM to Key a K3 with no outboard keyer

In reply to this post by Edward A. Dauer

This keying method is not described in detail in the N1MM+ documentation
because it is not supported by the N1MM+ development team. The reasons for
this can be found in the N1MM+ online manual (at <
http://n1mm.hamdocs.com/tiki-index.php?page=Serial+Parallel+and+Sound+Card+Interfacing&structure=N1MM+Logger+Documentation#Choosing_Your_CW_Method>);
in a nutshell, several of N1MM+'s advanced features do not work with this
keying method.

With the K3/K3S, but not the KX2 or KX3, there is another simpler method
which does not have any of the drawbacks of the CAT command method and
which does not require all of those CAT1ASC macros in your sent messages.
It is described in the N1MM+ manual at <
http://n1mm.hamdocs.com/tiki-index.php?page=Supported+Radios&structure=N1MM+Logger+Documentation#K3_and_K3S>.
Basicallly, you set the K3's CONFIG:PTT-KEY method to OFF-DTR or RTS-DTR
(depending on whether you want PTT as well as CW keying or not), and then
in the N1MM+ Configurer you configure DTR on the radio control port for CW
(and RTS for PTT if you want that as well).

Unfortunately, this method will not work with the KX2 or KX3 because their
serial port interfaces do not have DTR or RTS connections. For this reason,
the CAT1ASC macro method is used with N1MM+ by many KX2/KX3 owners, despite
its shortcomings in this context.

Note: the use of the specialized CATA1ASC macro instead of the basic
CAT1ASC macro is unnecessary. You can find the documentation for the
CAT1ASC family of macros at <
http://n1mm.hamdocs.com/tiki-index.php?page=Macros&structure=N1MM+Logger+Documentation#CATHEX_and_CATASC_Radio_Hex_Macro_Commands
>.

73,
Rich VE3KI

KN1CBR wrote:

The following may test our commitment to the idea that there is no such
thing as a \
stupid question . . . .

I finally got around to setting up my N1MM logger to key my transmitters
without \
having to use a K1EL or any other keyer -- just the KUSB cable directly
from the PC \
into the rig.

After hours of frustrating failure, by lucky accident I came across a post
on the \
Internet that gave examples for programming the Fn keys, using N1MM to key
a KX3. \
Each command line contains the string CATA1ASC before the command KY.
Without the \
CATA1ASC, hitting the Fn key does nothing. With it, and with the standard
KY \
programming command, it works -- on the KX3 at least. My K3 is at my other
QTH so I \
haven't tried this on that rig yet, but here's my question -- what is the
CATA1ASC \
for? I did a word search in both the KX3 and the N1MM manuals, and in the
KX3 \
Programmer's Guide, and I could find no mention of the CATA1ASC string.
Had I not \
found the examples on the Internet accidentally I would still be trying to
make this \
work with no success.

So can someone help me understand what it's about and why I didn't see it
in any of \
the manuals? Is it something in Windows 10?

Thanks,

Ted, KN1CBR
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Nr4c

Re: Using N1MM to Key a K3 with no outboard keyer

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm

This works but it is far easier. If you are using the built-in Meyer in the K3, just go to CONFIG/PTT-KEY and set to “off-DTR”.

Now go the n1mm config and set your radio comm port and check “cw” and then tap “Set”. Setup the port info and under DTR set to CW.

Close the configurer window and the CONFIG menu on radio.

Turn ON VOX and give it a try.

Sent from my iPhone
...nr4c. bill

> On Aug 1, 2018, at 8:05 PM, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Ted,
>
> That is something in N1MM which effectively tell the N1MM software to send the ASCII string which follows through the CAT port.
>
> You may find more information in the N1MM help file or forums.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
>> On 8/1/2018 7:32 PM, Dauer, Edward wrote:
>> The following may test our commitment to the idea that there is no such thing as a stupid question . . . .
>> I finally got around to setting up my N1MM logger to key my transmitters without having to use a K1EL or any other keyer -- just the KUSB cable directly from the PC into the rig.
>> After hours of frustrating failure, by lucky accident I came across a post on the Internet that gave examples for programming the Fn keys, using N1MM to key a KX3. Each command line contains the string CATA1ASC before the command KY. Without the CATA1ASC, hitting the Fn key does nothing. With it, and with the standard KY programming command, it works -- on the KX3 at least. My K3 is at my other QTH so I haven't tried this on that rig yet, but here's my question -- what is the CATA1ASC for? I did a word search in both the KX3 and the N1MM manuals, and in the KX3 Programmer's Guide, and I could find no mention of the CATA1ASC string. Had I not found the examples on the Internet accidentally I would still be trying to make this work with no success.
>> So can someone help me understand what it's about and why I didn't see it in any of the manuals? Is it something in Windows 10?
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

Nr4c

Re: Using N1MM to Key a K3 with no outboard keyer

In reply to this post by Richard Ferch-2

I have a project on my website ( NR4C.net/projects ) that will connect to a serial port (DE-9 or KUSB) and provide the CAT and breakout DTR & RTS lines for CW and PTT on KX2 and KX3 radios. Works well with n1mm.

Sent from my iPhone
...nr4c. bill

> On Aug 1, 2018, at 9:08 PM, Richard Ferch <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> This keying method is not described in detail in the N1MM+ documentation
> because it is not supported by the N1MM+ development team. The reasons for
> this can be found in the N1MM+ online manual (at <
> http://n1mm.hamdocs.com/tiki-index.php?page=Serial+Parallel+and+Sound+Card+Interfacing&structure=N1MM+Logger+Documentation#Choosing_Your_CW_Method>);
> in a nutshell, several of N1MM+'s advanced features do not work with this
> keying method.
>
> With the K3/K3S, but not the KX2 or KX3, there is another simpler method
> which does not have any of the drawbacks of the CAT command method and
> which does not require all of those CAT1ASC macros in your sent messages.
> It is described in the N1MM+ manual at <
> http://n1mm.hamdocs.com/tiki-index.php?page=Supported+Radios&structure=N1MM+Logger+Documentation#K3_and_K3S>.
> Basicallly, you set the K3's CONFIG:PTT-KEY method to OFF-DTR or RTS-DTR
> (depending on whether you want PTT as well as CW keying or not), and then
> in the N1MM+ Configurer you configure DTR on the radio control port for CW
> (and RTS for PTT if you want that as well).
>
> Unfortunately, this method will not work with the KX2 or KX3 because their
> serial port interfaces do not have DTR or RTS connections. For this reason,
> the CAT1ASC macro method is used with N1MM+ by many KX2/KX3 owners, despite
> its shortcomings in this context.
>
> Note: the use of the specialized CATA1ASC macro instead of the basic
> CAT1ASC macro is unnecessary. You can find the documentation for the
> CAT1ASC family of macros at <
> http://n1mm.hamdocs.com/tiki-index.php?page=Macros&structure=N1MM+Logger+Documentation#CATHEX_and_CATASC_Radio_Hex_Macro_Commands
>> .
>
> 73,
> Rich VE3KI
>
>
> KN1CBR wrote:
>
> The following may test our commitment to the idea that there is no such
> thing as a \
> stupid question . . . .
>
> I finally got around to setting up my N1MM logger to key my transmitters
> without \

ANDY DURBIN

Using N1MM to Key a K3 with no outboard keyer

In reply to this post by Edward A. Dauer

"but here's my question -- what is the CATA1ASC for?"

http://n1mm.hamdocs.com/tiki-index.php?page=Macros

As a TS-590 owner it's interesting that KY command as implemented by Elecraft does not conform to the Kenwood definition. The Elecraft implementation is much better since it allows KY strings to be less than the full length required by Kenwood. The difference is huge because it means the application can use string substitution where the substitution is not a constant length (as in callsign or serial number).

73,
Andy k3wyc
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Gary Smith-2

Re: Using N1MM to Key a K3 with no outboard keyer

My regrets that this does not answer the
topic but FWIW, I was having a lot of
issues getting N1MM to work with the
Elecraft keyer. Sometimes it would work
and other times I would even get N1MM to
freeze. I utilized Win4K3Suite which is a
fine software for compatibly but I still
had intermittent issues with the keying.

I finally bought the Winkeyer USB and only
have it plugged into the USB port in a
powered USB hub (or direct to the
computer) and a cable running from "KEY"
on the winkeyer to "KEY" on the K3. I then
checked off Winkeyer in the N1MM
configuration and that was it, plug & play
and the CW with N1MM is perfect.

If you can't get a consistent workable
solution, this is one workable answer to
getting N1MM to play nice on CW.

73,
Gary
KA1J

> "but here's my question -- what is the CATA1ASC for?"
>
> http://n1mm.hamdocs.com/tiki-index.php?page=Macros
>
> As a TS-590 owner it's interesting that KY command as implemented by
> Elecraft does not conform to the Kenwood definition. The Elecraft
> implementation is much better since it allows KY strings to be less
> than the full length required by Kenwood. The difference is huge
> because it means the application can use string substitution where the
> substitution is not a constant length (as in callsign or serial
> number).
>
> 73,
> Andy k3wyc

k6dgw

Re: Using N1MM to Key a K3 with no outboard keyer

In reply to this post by Edward A. Dauer

You need to ask that question on the N1MM list
Skip K6DGW

Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: ANDY DURBIN <[hidden email]>
Date: 8/2/18 06:22 (GMT-08:00)
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Elecraft] Using N1MM to Key a K3 with no outboard keyer

"but here's my question -- what is the CATA1ASC for?"

http://n1mm.hamdocs.com/tiki-index.php?page=Macros

As a TS-590 owner it's interesting that KY command as implemented by Elecraft does not conform to the Kenwood definition. The Elecraft implementation is much better since it allows KY strings to be less than the full length required by Kenwood. The difference is huge because it means the application can use string substitution where the substitution is not a constant length (as in callsign or serial number).

73,
Andy k3wyc
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