VFO fine-coarse tuning

[Bill VanAlstyne W5WVO]

Let's say I'm tuning in FINE mode (to the 1 Hz digit) and the VFO says 50.135.056. If I then go to COARSE (to the 100 Hz digit), tune to a VFO indication of, say, 50.145.0, I intuitively expect that the actual VFO frequency will be 50.145.000 -- but it continues to carry the FINE 10s and 1s digits as an offset, so the actual frequency is 50.145.056, which is revealed by tapping the FINE button. This was probably an intentional design choice based on how other rigs work -- but it's not the way it seems like it should be, to me. Intuitively, it seems like if it says 50.145.0, it should be 50.145.000. Am I completely wrong-headed here? Comments?

Bill W5WVO
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[N5GE]

On Thu, 3 Jul 2008 11:51:30 -0600, "Bill W5WVO" <[hidden email]> wrote:

>Let's say I'm tuning in FINE mode (to the 1 Hz digit) and the VFO says 50.135.056. If I then go to COARSE (to the 100 Hz digit), tune to a VFO indication of, say, 50.145.0, I intuitively expect that the actual VFO frequency will be 50.145.000 -- but it continues to carry the FINE 10s and 1s digits as an offset, so the actual frequency is 50.145.056, which is revealed by tapping the FINE button. This was probably an intentional design choice based on how other rigs work -- but it's not the way it seems like it should be, to me. Intuitively, it seems like if it says 50.145.0, it should be 50.145.000. Am I completely wrong-headed here? Comments?
>
>Bill W5WVO

[snip]

I too have noticed that, Bill and it has caused me some negligible trouble at
times.

I hadn't thought about it much, but now that I have, I think it may be the
intent of the designers to let us switch between Fine and Coarse to speed the
movement to another frequency, not to zero out to the proper decimal point.  In
fact I would find it disconcerting to hear the CW pitch (freq) of the VFO change
upon pushing that button.

I did notice that if you move the VFO after selecting Coarse the third or second
decimal point is dropped, depending on whether you tap or hold.  That seems like
the best compromise to me.

That's just my opinion, I could be wrong.

73,

Tom, N5GE - SWOT 3537 - Grid EM12jq

"Those who would give up
Essential Liberty to
purchase a little Temporary
Safety deserve neither
Liberty nor Safety"

An excerpt from a letter
written in 1755 from the
Assembly to the Governor
of Pennsylvania.

Support the entire Constitution, not
just the parts you like.

http://www.n5ge.com
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[Bill VanAlstyne W5WVO]

Hi Ron,

"Channelization" is a subject that is beginning to create more and more
debate on the air. I must admit that, being a 6m operator where
channelization makes sense other than in a contest environment (the band is
large -- why QRM each other?), I might have a predisposition in that
direction.

But aside from the channelization debate, yes, I understand your initial
objection. The way to solve that is to simply leave the actual VFO frequency
unchanged when pressing the COARSE button -- but as soon as the VFO
frequency is moved, drop the offset.

Part of my "intuitive" feeling about this undoubtedly comes from how the
TS-2000 was designed to work, and I guess I'm used to that. I don't know
about current FT amd IC rigs.

Bill W5WVO


----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron D'Eau Claire" <[hidden email]>
To: "'[Elecraft]'" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2008 12:04 PM
Subject: RE: [Elecraft] [K3] VFO fine-coarse tuning


> The problem is that if you changed the tuning rate when not at a ".000"
> setting and the system automatically put you on a ".000" setting, the rig
> would change frequency by that amount, either xmit or receive!
>
> Normally you'll be going from fine to coarse, so one would expect that
you'd
> not care about the digits you're hiding or the offset they represent since
> you're hiding them.
>
> But, with today's tendency for some Hams to "channelize", for example
> routinely assuming that SSB stations are on exactly 2.5 kHz intervals
across

> the SSB sub band, it can sometimes result in an apparent "tuning error"
> unless you go to the fine rate and correct the offset.
>
> One hilarious episode happened to me when I tuned up on 75 meter SSB one
> morning and signed my call. A station called me back saying I was "off
> frequency".
>
> "Off frequency?" I wasn't in a QSO. I replied and asked him what he meant.
> He said that I was a few hundred Hz "high".
>
> "High? High from what?"
>
> "You're at 3987.8 instead of at 3987.5 where you belong," he replied.
>
> I thought, "Oh my gosh! We really need a better examination question pool
> for the newbies!"
>
> Ron AC7AC
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> Let's say I'm tuning in FINE mode (to the 1 Hz digit) and the VFO says
> 50.135.056. If I then go to COARSE (to the 100 Hz digit), tune to a VFO
> indication of, say, 50.145.0, I intuitively expect that the actual VFO
> frequency will be 50.145.000 -- but it continues to carry the FINE 10s and
> 1s digits as an offset, so the actual frequency is 50.145.056, which is
> revealed by tapping the FINE button. This was probably an intentional

design
> choice based on how other rigs work -- but it's not the way it seems like
it
> should be, to me. Intuitively, it seems like if it says 50.145.0, it
should

> be 50.145.000. Am I completely wrong-headed here? Comments?
>
> Bill W5WVO
>
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[Julian, G4ILO]

I don't feel a big need for the main VFO dial to zero out the insignificant digits, but I would like the first step of the RIT knob, when being used as a fast tuner, to go to the next rounded frequency step above or below.

I have noticed that a lot of SSB stations seem to be on exact multiples of 1KHz and this would avoid some need to use the main VFO knob when quickly tuining around. I don't think it's creeping channelization, I think it is just a natural tendency when you have a digital readout and are searching for a frequency to call CQ that you pick a "round" number to call on.

[M0XDF]

I second that, was using it today and thought that would be a good  
action. And yes, I always start on the basis that someone is Tx on a  
integral.
73 de M0XDF, K3 #174
--
When one door closes another door opens; but we so often look so long  
and
so regretfully upon the closed door, that we do not see the ones which  
open
for us. -Alexander Graham Bell, inventor (1847-1922)

On 3 Jul 2008, at 23:00, G4ILO wrote:

>
> I don't feel a big need for the main VFO dial to zero out the  
> insignificant
> digits, but I would like the first step of the RIT knob, when being  
> used as
> a fast tuner, to go to the next rounded frequency step above or below.
>
> I have noticed that a lot of SSB stations seem to be on exact  
> multiples of
> 1KHz and this would avoid some need to use the main VFO knob when  
> quickly
> tuining around. I don't think it's creeping channelization, I think  
> it is
> just a natural tendency when you have a digital readout and are  
> searching
> for a frequency to call CQ that you pick a "round" number to call on.

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[N0QO]

I have noticed what you describe below with all versions of firmware.  I have verified that it occurs both on transmit and receive.  At the most you could be 99Hz off of your displayed freq. If you were at say 14.200099 in the fine mode and then switched to coarse display of 142000 you would actually be transmitting and receiving on 14.200099.  The 99Hz will always be there even if you move the VFO.  I find this irritating but since I am aware of it I can work around it.  I hope that it will merit a future update

73, Ken N0QO

Bill W5WVO wrote

Let's say I'm tuning in FINE mode (to the 1 Hz digit) and the VFO says 50.135.056. If I then go to COARSE (to the 100 Hz digit), tune to a VFO indication of, say, 50.145.0, I intuitively expect that the actual VFO frequency will be 50.145.000 -- but it continues to carry the FINE 10s and 1s digits as an offset, so the actual frequency is 50.145.056, which is revealed by tapping the FINE button. This was probably an intentional design choice based on how other rigs work -- but it's not the way it seems like it should be, to me. Intuitively, it seems like if it says 50.145.0, it should be 50.145.000. Am I completely wrong-headed here? Comments?

Bill W5WVO
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[wayne burdick]

Hi Ken (and Bill),

Quantizing the VFO in COARSE mode is on the list for a future firmware
revision. This will eliminate the offset you described.

73,
Wayne
N6KR

> I have noticed what you describe below with all versions of firmware.  
> I have verified that it occurs both on transmit and receive.  At the
> most you could be 99Hz off of your displayed freq. If you were at say
> 14.200099 in the fine mode and then switched to coarse display of
> 142000 you would actually be transmitting and receiving on 14.200099.  
> The 99Hz will always be there even if you move the VFO.  I find this
> irritating but since I am aware of it I can work around it.  I hope
> that it will merit a future update
>
> 73, Ken N0QO

---

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