VP6DX Success Due to K3's or Antennas?

[k4tmc]

I don't want to spoil the Elecraft Mojo theory, but does anyone have any
details, other thqan what is on the VP6DX web site, on what antennas they are
using with the k3's?

Do the vertical dipoles have parasitic elements?  Are they using low-loss
coax?  Etc.  Inquiring minds would like to know.

73,
Henry - K4TMC
K3 #98
**************
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[AC7AC]

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[alsopb]

and/or maybe the operators in conjunction with the hardware... If they work down the pileups, they can hear the weaker ones..

Here is some speculation:

They talk about vertical dipole arrays.
20m Vertical Dipol Array
17m Vertical Dipol Array
15m Vertical Dipol Array
12m Vertical Dipol Array
10m Vertical Dipol Array

I'm guessing they are like phased verticals but don't depend on ground radials and hence are ground independent.   Whether or not all elements are driven wasn't stated.  It would be nice to know if they had some kind of "x-square" phasing or parasitic elements.    It would seem since they could certainly be no more than vertical yagi's.    Given the picture on their website, rotating a vertical yagi on guyed poles would be impossible.  Thus maybe they are phased with coax lines.

I thought I read that the salt water "perfect ground" effect only extends so far inland.  Something less than a couple wavelengths.  

Anyhow, one can't dispute the fact that they have super signals.  Given reciprocity, they are also probably hearing well because of the strength of received signals.  

k4tmc wrote

I don't want to spoil the Elecraft Mojo theory, but does anyone have any
details, other thqan what is on the VP6DX web site, on what antennas they are
using with the k3's?

Do the vertical dipoles have parasitic elements?  Are they using low-loss
coax?  Etc.  Inquiring minds would like to know.

73,
Henry - K4TMC
K3 #98
**************
Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
 
   
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy
/2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)
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[Bjorn]

I agree! Although the K3 is a great radio, 90% of the mojo is antennas and
location. If you are really interested in the secret of vertical antennas
near salt water check out this site;

http://k2kw.com/k5k/dxcomp.htm

73 de Björn /SM0MDG


On 080222 5:41 , "Ron D'Eau Claire" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Being on the edge of a huge salt-water pond gives VP6DX's verticals an
> advantage no "land lubber" can hope for. There's a lot of interaction
> between the electromagnetic wave and the earth from a vertical antenna for
> many wavelengths from the antennas. Real "earth" - dirt - is a terrible
> medium. It's sort of the world's worst dielectric, even when soaking wet.
> But salt water is a different story. It's a very efficient medium for the RF
> to interact with.
>
> There's a reason why so many DX-peditions like to find themselves on a small
> rock in the middle of the ocean, and it isn't just for the view.
>
> Ron AC7AC
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> I don't want to spoil the Elecraft Mojo theory, but does anyone have any
> details, other thqan what is on the VP6DX web site, on what antennas they
> are
> using with the k3's?
>
> Do the vertical dipoles have parasitic elements?  Are they using low-loss
> coax?  Etc.  Inquiring minds would like to know.
>
> 73,
> Henry - K4TMC
> K3 #98
> **************
>
> _______________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Post to: [hidden email]
> You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
>  http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
>

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[k6dgw]

Ron D'Eau Claire wrote:

> Being on the edge of a huge salt-water pond gives VP6DX's verticals an
> advantage no "land lubber" can hope for. There's a lot of interaction
> between the electromagnetic wave and the earth from a vertical antenna for
> many wavelengths from the antennas. Real "earth" - dirt - is a terrible
> medium. It's sort of the world's worst dielectric, even when soaking wet.
> But salt water is a different story. It's a very efficient medium for the RF
> to interact with.
>
> There's a reason why so many DX-peditions like to find themselves on a small
> rock in the middle of the ocean, and it isn't just for the view.
>

I'd bet VP6DX success is a combination of factors, salt water and
outstanding radios being two of them.  That they are operating multiple
radios on the small island attests to the value of the K3.  I also know
several of the ops [one has my last name :-) ] and they're all about as
good as you can get.  That's another major factor.  They sure are loud
here in N. Cal.  VP6DI was too.

73,

Fred K6DGW
- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the 2008 Cal QSO Party  4-5 Oct 08
- www.cqp.org
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[WILLIS COOKE]

The Mojo is in the sea water which has a conductivity
of about 500 millimhos/per meter.  The best of soils
are about 30 millimhos/meter and average soil about 5
mmhos/meter.  A small island is as near to a perfect
ground plane as you will find.

--- Björn Mohr <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I agree! Although the K3 is a great radio, 90% of
> the mojo is antennas and
> location. If you are really interested in the secret
> of vertical antennas
> near salt water check out this site;
>
> http://k2kw.com/k5k/dxcomp.htm
>
> 73 de Björn /SM0MDG
>
>
> On 080222 5:41 , "Ron D'Eau Claire" <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > Being on the edge of a huge salt-water pond gives
> VP6DX's verticals an
> > advantage no "land lubber" can hope for. There's a
> lot of interaction
> > between the electromagnetic wave and the earth
> from a vertical antenna for
> > many wavelengths from the antennas. Real "earth" -
> dirt - is a terrible
> > medium. It's sort of the world's worst dielectric,
> even when soaking wet.
> > But salt water is a different story. It's a very
> efficient medium for the RF
> > to interact with.
> >
> > There's a reason why so many DX-peditions like to
> find themselves on a small
> > rock in the middle of the ocean, and it isn't just
> for the view.
> >
> > Ron AC7AC
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > I don't want to spoil the Elecraft Mojo theory,
> but does anyone have any
> > details, other thqan what is on the VP6DX web
> site, on what antennas they
> > are
> > using with the k3's?
> >
> > Do the vertical dipoles have parasitic elements?
> Are they using low-loss
> > coax?  Etc.  Inquiring minds would like to know.
> >
> > 73,
> > Henry - K4TMC
> > K3 #98
> > **************
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Post to: [hidden email]
> > You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
> > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
> >  http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> >
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
> > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>

Willis 'Cookie' Cooke
K5EWJ
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[David Cutter]

For verticals there's a 2 or 3-fold effect:

1    a vertical over sea water will have very much reduced losses in the
near field, ie close to the antenna so increasing its efficiency, ie raising
the 'power output' compared to a land situation

2    the increased conductivity in the far field reduces losses to the wave
travelling across the surface before it launches into space

3    the long travel over the sea water means a lower angle than across land
 and therefore less bounces to get to you on the other side of the world, so
less losses on the way

So, the signal is much bigger at your end and your signal has less losses
getting to them.

David
G3UNA

> The Mojo is in the sea water which has a conductivity
> of about 500 millimhos/per meter.  The best of soils
> are about 30 millimhos/meter and average soil about 5
> mmhos/meter.  A small island is as near to a perfect
> ground plane as you will find.
>
> --- Björn Mohr <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> I agree! Although the K3 is a great radio, 90% of
>> the mojo is antennas and
>> location. If you are really interested in the secret
>> of vertical antennas
>> near salt water check out this site;
>>
>> http://k2kw.com/k5k/dxcomp.htm
>>
>> 73 de Björn /SM0MDG
>>
>>
>> On 080222 5:41 , "Ron D'Eau Claire" <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > Being on the edge of a huge salt-water pond gives
>> VP6DX's verticals an
>> > advantage no "land lubber" can hope for. There's a
>> lot of interaction
>> > between the electromagnetic wave and the earth
>> from a vertical antenna for
>> > many wavelengths from the antennas. Real "earth" -
>> dirt - is a terrible
>> > medium. It's sort of the world's worst dielectric,
>> even when soaking wet.
>> > But salt water is a different story. It's a very
>> efficient medium for the RF
>> > to interact with.
>> >
>> > There's a reason why so many DX-peditions like to
>> find themselves on a small
>> > rock in the middle of the ocean, and it isn't just
>> for the view.
>> >
>> > Ron AC7AC
>> >
>> >

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